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What Should Devils Fans Expect: Martin Brodeur

Let me say this right now.

Yes, Martin Brodeur is 37.  Yes, he will be 38 next May.  No, I don't think it matters.

In sport, as a player gets older, their body and skills suffer for a number of reasons.  Past injuries taking their toll, general wear and tear just by game-to-game activity, the mind working faster than the hands, the game changes whereas the player's style doesn't necessarily adapt, etc.  When a player is hitting their mid-30s, we say that they are on the decline in their career because they are literally past their prime - which is in the late 20s, early 30s for most players.  The area where they are physically sound and talented while benefiting from the experience and knowing how to use their skills the best.   Some players play on, however we expect them to take on a more limited role, like the 40-year old Brendan Shanahan.

As a result, some Devils fans may feel that Martin Brodeur shouldn't be allowed to play more than 60-65 games.  He'll get tired and he's old.  The implication - either intended or not - is that Brodeur isn't who he once was.  Even after witnessing Brodeur coming back from first significant injury in his entire career last season to put up impressive numbers playing like, well, Brodeur normally did.

What I expect from Brodeur is more of the same, and I'm confident we'll get just that based on what he has done in recent seasons.  In showcasing that, I hope to make the point that for Brodeur, age really is just a number.


GP MIN W L T EGA GA GAA SA SV SV% SO
2008 - Martin Brodeur 31 1814 19 9 3 2 73 2.41 870 797 .916 5

Star-divide

Let's consider the last 8 seasons.  A time where Brodeur excelled both before the lockout and after. A period where Brodeur has had Jacques Caron as goaltender coach and 6 different head coaches.  A length where the Devils defense once featured Scott Stevens, Scott Niedermeyer, and Brian Rafalski in the top 4 at the same time to a point where the Devils do not have any big names on the blueline.   What I did was compare Brodeur's numbers to the median league numbers among goalies who played enough games to get onto the GAA, save percentage, and shutout leaders list.     If anyone has averages from each season, then I'll gladly revisit this comparison.  For now, this will do.   

First, here's a chart of all the raw numbers.

Brodeur_8seasons_chart_medium

There's a lot to be impressed here.  Half of these seasons, Brodeur walked away with the Vezina Trophy, awarded to the best goaltender of the season.   Notice that Brodeur won at least 55% of the games he played in for 6 out of these 8 seasons.  Notice that Brodeur's highest GAA is 2.57, which came in the season right after the lockout.  Notice how his worst seasons in save percentage come in the first two seasons here, showing that Brodeur has stepped up in this regard.  

Maybe you haven't noticed all that. That's OK, here's three graphs comparing Brodeur to the median while showcasing how his numbers changed over these 8 seasons.

Brodeur_gaa_chart_medium

Notice that Brodeur's not only beating the median but look at that trend. Only twice has his GAA gone above 2.35 in these 8 seasons.  Impressive.

Brodeur_savepercent_chart_medium

Here, we see that Brodeur was around the median at the beginning of this time period. Yet, he improved from then on to stay significantly away from the median in the next 6 seasons.  He has trended down in the last 3 seasons, but it is still above a very respectable 91.5%.

Brodeur_shutout_chart_medium

Shutouts are always tricky because a bad bounce or a bad read could end a shutout effort in the blink of an eye. Still, Brodeur has either good shutout totals or extremely good shutout totals in a season.  Always above the median and it still boggles my mind that he picked up 5 in just 31 games last season.

In goals against average, save percentage, and in shutouts over each season, Brodeur has done better than the league median. The only exception is in save percentage, where Brodeur matched it in 2002-03.  Still, this helps prove that Brodeur has been a top goaltender.   EVEN AS HE GETS OLDER. 

That is the big point I want to make with these graphs and the chart.  Martin Brodeur doesn't just have great numbers, he continues to put up excellent numbers and finish among top goaltenders in the league despite getting older.  Brodeur didn't slow down at 34, he set a career high in shutouts while posting his best save percentage since 1996-97.  He won his third Vezina in his career - and in this time span - for his results.  Next season, a 35-year old Brodeur still was a puck-stopping machine with a superb sub-2.20 GAA and 92 save percentage, earning him a second consecutive Vezina.  And last season, Brodeur had a great October, got injured, and came back in late February without missing a beat.  Had he been able to play 65-70 games, who knows, maybe he would have challenged for a third straight Vezina.

Why is Brodeur able to do all this, when most are near the end or already finished their career as a player?  The same reason why he's got 4 Vezinas, 3 Stanley Cups, the record for career wins, and closing in on career shutouts.  Martin Brodeur is a legend.  And should we really hold him to the same standards and expectations as most other  players? I don't think so. Just look at the last 8 seasons, from age 28 to 36, for proof.  You can't tell me he's been getting worse with age.  Likewise, you can't even say Brodeur has to worry about past injuries to hold him back. He's had exactly one significant injury in his career which was last season, and he didn't struggle at all when he returned to the ice - so there's no reason to believe it will hurt him this season. 

I see no reason to believe Martin Brodeur won't be one of the best goaltenders in the league in 2009-10.  If Brodeur and the coaching staff feel he can/wants to play 70 games based on workload and such, then by all means, Brodeur should play 70 games. Again, I see no reason to believe that Brodeur will somehow get that much worse at age 37 than he was at 35 or 36.  I won't give a stat line prediction, but I do expect Brodeur to set the NHL record for career season shutouts in 2009-10.  I also expect him to continue playing at a high level, finishing among NHL leaders in goals against average, save percentage, and - of course - wins.   Do I think he can accomplish all that? Of course!

Now it's time to have your say.  Do you still think that Brodeur should be held back, and if so, why?  Do you have league averages for goals against average, save percentage, and shutouts; and if so, can you let me know? I'll happily revisit this should the averages tell a different story?  Perhaps you would like to suggest an actual statline for Brodeur as an expectation?  Or do you have some other general thought about what you expect from Brodeur in 2009-10?  Either way, let's discuss it in the comments.

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We all know how good he is in the regular season but with the exception of when we beat the Rangers and Lightning the Defense and I’ll say it, Marty has let us down with poor play and soft goals. I could care less if he plays 70+ games, I want to win a playoff series and go deeper than the conference semi-finals. Fatigue is not a question as this past season proved. He played far less because of injury but same result in playoffs. A devils loss. With little change to the D this year with the exception of youth, barring a significant trade at the deadline we will need a prayer in the playoffs unless people step up their game, Colin White and Bryce Salvador.

by Damian78 on Aug 1, 2009 8:54 AM EDT reply actions  

I totally agree.

Marty is great during the regular season but I would be interested to know what his playoff stats are during the last 5 seasons. He lets us down over and over in the playoffs allowing too many soft goals.

Donald Vasquez

by don_vas on Aug 1, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

Where’s the proof?

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Aug 2, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

soft goals? did you look at the charts?

Respectfully I disagree with the above post that any lapses in the post season can be blamed upon Brodeur. His goals against and save %s are amongst the very best in hockey. How many great goalies never win the Stanley Cup? Marty has three and has had the potential to win five already. That is a devils logo on his chest, not the superman logo, and a little reasonableness is in order here. In order to win in the post season you need your defense to be playing solidly. Last years ours was very good for a stretch, but in the playoffs they were average at best, and thats how the storey goes.

On point to John’s article, he is absolutely correct that age is not a factor with Marty. He is in incredible shape and plays with the agility of those much younger, You can’t compare players from 30-40-50 years ago, that just doesn’t work because the game has changed so much. But make no mistake that Marty is an ALLTIME GREAT goalie, automatic for the hall of fame, and will have all the records for a long long time.

So- I expect Marty to mantain his form, play games in the seventies and win about 60% of the time. I wouldn’t worry a lick about Marty. Our success will rest frimly on the defense in front of him.

Lets not forget that the league put in a rule just to restrict Marty, He was far more adept at handling the puck then any other goalie, and this rule was pointed specifically and directly at him because other teams whined so much. Has this effected his play and our recent playoff performances? ABSOLUTELY it has. If the old rules were still in play our recent play off record would look different.

Great job on the charts John.

by pepe22 on Aug 1, 2009 10:46 AM EDT reply actions  

defence was average at best.

I agree the defense was not as good as in the past but it was good enough to win that series if it nwas not for Marty letting in soft goals and losing us 2 critical games.

Donald Vasquez

by don_vas on Aug 1, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Age is just a number, but...

the first significant injury of his career last year is a warning sign that the wear and tear of a lifetime of playing hockey affects everyone, even those who are tremendously genetically gifted and fantastically well-conditioned.

I see no reason why Marty shouldn’t hit par this season and extend his career wins record significantly, and perhaps even capture the shut-out record; particularly with Lemaire back behind the bench. Hopefully, with the career wins record justly his, there won’t be anything nearly as distracting or emotionally and physically draining on him, and the team, this season and they can maintain their focus on what really matters.

by elesias on Aug 1, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions  

I didn’t place all of the blame on Marty and yes he has given up some soft goals, stats are one thing, seeing it in the game is another. Trust me I am a huge Brodeur fan but he needs better support from the Defensive corps more now than ever. The Team in front of needs an infusion of youth and it looks like we are getting that. Goalies are remembered who win Stanley Cups. Marty will be remembered for that but right now I am thinking the present not the future when I will look back and remember the last cup the Devils won was in 2003. I wpuld like to win one more before Marty’s career is over.

by Damian78 on Aug 1, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I only object to the word soft. Our defense let alot of quality shots through, and I dont blame them on Marty. It sounds like we are in agreemnet on the defense, so lets hope they improve a little this year and we make a legitimate run for our fourth cup.

by pepe22 on Aug 1, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ummmmm, our defense does very well.

look at my new post that was written in response to your comment.

by Nothinggoespast on Aug 1, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions  

I would like to see the games played at probably 65 ish

But that has nothing to do with Marty’s age. I just think it is to his or any goaltenders benefit to get just a bit more time off than he has had.

I fully expect a very solid season by Marty. I absolutely expect at 35 +/- win season, even with slightly fewer games. The D does not have the names of the past but I think Paul Martin is great, and both he and Johnny Oduya should be improving. Salvatore should be solid. So I look for a better defense this year than last, even without Madden.

BTW, this is my first post after just finding ILWT a couple weeks back. John, what I LOVE about this site is how you present loads of DATA to back up what you are saying. Far to fans do that.

I honestly have to admit that 5 years ago, I underappreciated Marty – I thought he was very very good, but I did think he got alot of benefit from being on good defensive teams. And when alot of opposing fans were saying how the post lockout era was going to expsose Marty, I have to say I had my concerns. But the facts are totally evident – Marty is a better player today than he was a decade ago. So whenever I get nonsense from Ranger and Islander fans about how Marty is not what he was, I go right to these same numbers and point out that Marty’s save percentages are better now than before the lockout.

I am now such a Marty fan that my wife is starting to get concerned :-)

by Devilssection21fan on Aug 1, 2009 6:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks.

Technically, the best Marty’s ever been statistically was actually back in 1996-97: 37-14-13, a 1.87 GAA and a 92.7 Sv% with 10 shutouts. And 1997-98 runs a close second with a record of 43-17-8 with a 1.88 GAA, a 91.7Sv% with 10 shutouts. The Devils were very defensive minded then, yes, but even when the offense broke through, they rarely got much past Brodeur! I think the only reason he didn’t win any Vezinas those seasons because, even more amazingly, Dominik Hasek was better! But he has played superbly as he has gotten older, indeed.

As far as the defense is concerned, I wouldn’t sweat the names too much as Brodeur has sparkled in 2006-07 with only Rafalski has the “name” on the blueline (and Paul Martin averaged nearly as many minutes as Rafalski – 25:29/game for Rafalski, 25:13 for Martin) as well as in 2007-08 and what part of 2008-09 Brodeur was healthy to play in. It’d be nice if the defense did get better through a transaction; but it’s not like they have been an anchor for the team.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Aug 2, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it is completely useless to compare stats of ten years ago and any stats of before the lockout. The lockout has changed the game forever. Its not the same game whether you want to argue it or not. I feel that since the lockout Marty has played good during the regular season. Post season is where it matters. I don’t care who you are or what stats might say, its has shown through Marty’s play that he has underachieved in the post season. The excuse has always been Marty has been tired for the post season. Well we can throw that idea out the window. He played 32 games this year and still underachieved. Then you might be thinking well the defense didn’t perform to playoff hockey. If they didn’t perform then why are we praising them in other posts. You can’t say something in another post and then contradict in another post. The problem has to be either Marty has underachieved or it was the defense. It can be shown here here We know the offense wasn’t the problem. Hell even in a game where we down 3-0 our offense came back to tie it but lost on a last second goal. So what is the problem then? Its either got to be Marty or the defense. It my opinion its been a combo of both. Marty has played good and sometimes great in the postseason but sometimes falls flat. Since the lockout, Marty has NOT been the same Marty prelockout. The same could be said about defense. In my opinion the defense needs to be better armed but with what they had last season they were not bad. They need a boost and I think 1 quality player can do that.

by brodeurman89 on Aug 2, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Breaks are your friend.
I feel that since the lockout Marty has played good during the regular season. Post season is where it matters. I don’t care who you are or what stats might say, its has shown through Marty’s play that he has underachieved in the post season. The excuse has always been Marty has been tired for the post season. Well we can throw that idea out the window. He played 32 games this year and still underachieved.

Really? As someone who has watched Marty’s play for most of his career, I really find that hard to believe – especially in this past postseason. In fact, I even wrote this before Game 7:


I think both goaltenders have gone above and beyond the call of duty in this series. Fans of both teams, if you’re looking to assign blame for the first round loss, the goaltenders are not deserving of any blame. Neither lost this series.

And I still stand by that. If Brodeur/Ward didn’t play as well as it did, the series doesn’t even come close to 7 games. So I don’t know how you can say Brodeur underachieved unless you didn’t see any of the games and are just relying on boxscores to claim to make a point.

Again, I say prove it.

Since the lockout, Marty has NOT been the same Marty prelockout.

True. The above post argues that he’s gotten better.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Aug 2, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

All I have to say to you is. If Marty has gotten better since the lockout then how come the devils have only made it to the second round once since the lockout? Well since you like to throw stats out here, how about these stats. 06-07 Marty’s GAA was 2.44, 07-08 was 3.19, 08-09 was 2.39. If you think that is good enough to go far in the playoffs your nuts. Lets look at the stats before the lockout. 02-03 was 1.65, 01-02 was 1.42, 00-01 was 2.07. I think his post lockout are worse. And the fact that you can proudly compare Marty to Cam Ward is an insult to Marty who you think has gotten better. In no way is Cam Ward better than Martin Brodeur. Yes both goaltenders are good but honestly Marty is the better goaltender. Marty played down to Cam Ward’s level and we lost. If Marty was prelockout Marty we probably would have won against Car.

by brodeurman89 on Aug 2, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Well since you like to throw stats out here, how about these stats. 06-07 Marty’s GAA was 2.44, 07-08 was 3.19, 08-09 was 2.39. If you think that is good enough to go far in the playoffs your nuts.

You know what else wasn’t good enough to go far in the playoffs in those three years? Scoring.
06-07 Playoff Goals For/Game: 2.73 (mind you, this was boosted by the Devils’ first round, the Devils scored 10 goals in 5 games against Ottawa; so the playoff loss came with an average of 2 per game)
07-08 Playoff Goals For/Game: 2.40
08-09 Playoff Goals For/Game: 2.14

Having a low GAA does help, but as seen in 2001-02, you still need to have the 18 skaters in front of the goalie score more goals than the other team. And the Devils didn’t do enough of that in those years either to advance, unless Brodeur was going to allow only 1 goal per game on average – and I fail to see how that is a realistic expectation for any goaltender.

And the fact that you can proudly compare Marty to Cam Ward is an insult to Marty who you think has gotten better. In no way is Cam Ward better than Martin Brodeur. Yes both goaltenders are good but honestly Marty is the better goaltender. Marty played down to Cam Ward’s level and we lost. If Marty was prelockout Marty we probably would have won against Car.

I wasn’t proudly comparing Brodeur to Cam Ward; I was stating that both goaltenders played very, very well. It’s difficult to converse if you’re just shoving your own words in there.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Aug 2, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes lack of scoring doesn’t help in the playoffs. But I think that this year scoring was not the problem.

by brodeurman89 on Aug 2, 2009 3:59 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree we scored enough and fought our way back from deficits .

We scored enough goals in the Carolina series to win and came back from a 3 goal deficit in game 4. We scored enough in game 7 until the 2 soft goals that were given up in the last 2 minutes.

Donald Vasquez

by don_vas on Aug 3, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

2.14 goals per game says otherwise.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Aug 3, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

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