A word about Defense.

by Nothinggoespast on Aug 1, 2009 3:52 PM EDT

Is our defense really in need of a number one guy? Let's look at the numbers. I will be comparing the Devils to the Penguins (because they won the cup), the Hurricanes (because they eliminated us from the playoffs last year), the Red Wings (disputably the best Defense in the league, and cup runner ups.) and the Bruins (who won the Jennings Trophy, another candidate for best Defense).

First an overview of the entire defense corps, then individuals.

Let's start with points for the top 6 defensemen:

Devils: 140

Penguins: 117.

Hurricanes: 158.

Red Wings: 213

Bruins: 203

140 isn't bad, when I calculated this for the other 25 teams, the devils came in right around the middle for points by defensemen.

And the top 6 defensemen's plus/minus:

Devils: +89

Penguins: +61

Hurricanes: +16

Red Wings: +69

Bruins: +136

Without a "veteran defenseman," the devils had more points than the stanley cup winning team from their defense. Also, our defense played better defensively than the Pens (+/- wise).

They may not have had as many points as the Hurricane's defense, but the Canes played too riskily, and let many chances through.

We were also better defensively than the Red Wings.

Only Boston In the whole league had a better +/- than the Devils.

Our overall defense is very good, and better than many of you think.

Now let's look at individual stats.

Devils offense:

Paul Martin (5-28-33) and Johnnie Oduya (7-22-29) were both in the top 60 in points for defensemen (46th and 57th respectively)

Infact, our lowest point total for our top 6 d-men, was Mottau with 15.

Penguins:

Kris Letang (10-23-33) was tied with Martin for 46th place in points for defensemen.

The other 5 had between 10 and 20 points.

Hurricanes:

The Hurricanes had 4 defensemen with 30 or more points, Corvo, Babchuck, Pitkanen, and Seidenburg. All were in the top 60 for points for defensemen.

The Canes got a lot of offensive help from their D-men.

Red Wings:

Lidstrom (16-43-59) and Rafalski (10-49-59) were in 3rd in the league.

Kronwall (6-45-51) was 11th

Lilja, Stewart, and Lebda had 13, 15, and 16 points respectively.

These guys are insane on offense.

Bruins:

Chara (19-31-50) and Wideman (13-37-50): 12th in the league.

Hunswick and Montador had 27 (59th in the league) and 21 respectively, and Stuart and Ference had 17 and 16 respectively.

For those of you counting, that's three defensemen in the top 60.

Now Defense:

Devils:

Mike Mottau: +24, 6th in the league

Paul Martin and Johnnie Oduya: +21 and 11th in the league

Colin White: +18, 16th in the league.

That's 4 Defensemen in the top 20

Penguins:

Rob Scuderi, +23, 7th in the league.

No others were in the top 30 for +/- on defense.

Hurricanes:

Anton Babchuck: +13, 26th in the league.

Joni Pitkanen was a +11

but, the Hurricanes had some players on Defense that were minuses:

Joe Corvo -1

Dennis Seidenberg -9

Niclas Wallin -1

Frantisek Kaberle -4

Even though they could score, they let a lot of chances through.

Red Wings:

Lidstrom was a +31 and 3rd in the league.

Rafalski was a +17 and 17th in the league. (worse than Colin White (+18), the Devils' 4th place in +/-)

Lilja was a +13 and 26th in the league.

Brad Stewart was a -3

Bruins:

Wideman: +32 2nd in the league

Chara: +23 7th in the league

Stuart: +20 13th in the league

Montador: +17 17th in the league

Ward: +16 19th in the league

Hunswick: +15 20th in the league

All 6 BOSTON D-MEN ARE IN THE TOP 20 OF THE LEAGUE for +/-.

Overall, the Devils may not have been the best offensively but as far as +/- goes, we are a better team defensively than even Detroit. Detroit even had a much better season than the Devils, and our +/- was better than theirs.

If you go through all 30 teams, the Devils are a little above average for points by defensemen. We are also the second best (behind Boston who were a whopping +136) for +/- in the league.

Our defense is phenomenal defensively, and above average offensively.

A veteran defenseman to raise our point production would be nice, but it isn't necessary.

All stats were gotten from NHL.com

All FanPosts and FanShots are the respective work of the author and not representative of the writers or other users of In Lou We Trust.

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Post Script

Something that I realized would have been good to add…

Maybe we are spoiled by seeing Stevens and Neidermeyer and Dano and Rafalski, etc. for so long. Our defense is still good, but not as good as it was when we had them, making us think that its worse than it is.

by Nothinggoespast on Aug 1, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions

Good analysis

Nice job on the analysis, but I think the stats between the Bruins and Devils is a staggering difference. The Bruins defense scored almost 50% more points then us. That is HUGE.

There plus/minus was also somewhere about 46% better then ours. If you cut the bruins plus/minus in half they still would have been +68. That is a tremendous difference.

We have 3 really good defensemen in Oduya/Martin/Salvador, and the rest are serviceable. There is no clear #1 on this team, and great defenses are built around a strong 1/2 pair.

The last 100 seconds of our last game this year would not have never happened if Stevens was on this team.

Respectfully I disagree, and i’m praying Corrente and Eckford are the real deal.

by pepe22 on Aug 1, 2009 4:39 PM EDT reply actions

Mottau

Salvador was our lowest for +/-. Mottau and White were both about equal to him in points, and had a much higher +/-. I would count both as better than Salvador (stats-wise).

I agree about Corrente and Eckford. I hope that they can develop to making our D-corps even better.

I never said that the devils had the best defense, but that they were respectable. After looking at these stats, I have no doubt that Boston has the best Defense in the league. Comparing us to them is like comparing the Panthers (a middle of the road team) to the Sharks (won the presidents trophy). The panthers are a respectable team, and are good, but the Sharks are MUCH better.

The one difference, is that the devils are in second place for +/-, and the Bruins still almost double them in that stat. The Bruins have a huge lead for best defense last year.

Still, Devils are second place in +/-, and that is not only respectable, but great. Being a bit above average in goals by defensemen is merely respectable.

by Nothinggoespast on Aug 1, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions

Salvador

The only reason I put Salvador in there is he is a stay at home guy who is physically punishing, I think he plays a certain role that isnt measured the same as a Mottau.

Motts has been great for us, but he should be our 6/7 guy, and we are playing him as a 4/5 guy.

by pepe22 on Aug 1, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions

well,

He works as a 4/5 guy and so does White. If you look around the league at other teams, that’s about where they fit in (stats-wise).

If you don’t think so, then that’s fine, but it’s been working, and working decently.

Things could be better with a #1 guy, I agree, but it shouldn’t be a top priority, as our defense gets it done as is.

Besides, I think that either Corrente or Eckford could fill that #1 role, so it would be better to save the money for now, and develop them into that role.

by Nothinggoespast on Aug 1, 2009 5:05 PM EDT reply actions

I think that the defense we had last year under Sutter was good but not great. As far as the defense being offensive I’m not worried about that. Its how the defense works in there own zone. I don’t think that the defense can handle the style of play that Lemaire will bring. I think there needs to be a Neidermeyer type player that can help.

by brodeurman89 on Aug 2, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions

I disagree on the methodology

I appreciate the effort, but I really don’t think +/- is the best way to judge a defender. A defenseman could play real well, but let down by his teammates, let down by his goaltender, or the offense just steamrolled in for an awesome goal – and he’d get punished for it with a minus. Likewise, a defenseman could be trailing while his forward teammates make the effort to score the goal, giving him a plus.

I think there is definite merit to comparing team defenses; but I would highly recommend checking out the stats compiled by Gabe Desjardins at Behind the Net. He basically delves deeper into +/-, as well as provides additional stats such as how the shots against a team per 60 minutes changes when the player is or is not on the ice for different situations (PK, PP, even strength) I think that would provide for a more accurate way of comparing defense. Especially in conjunction with overall team stats like shots against per game, which are available at NHL.com.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Aug 2, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions

By all means

rewrite this yourself. I find difficulty in expressing myself through words. You are much better than I, and I would love to see your take on this using the information from Behind the Net. If you feel the need, of course.

I was only using +/- (fully aware of its pitfalls) only as a basic guideline to show that the Devil’s defense is better than we think. Take it any way you want.

by Nothinggoespast on Aug 2, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions

I didn’t mean to come across snotty about it. You may be onto something, just a disagreeing on the methodology.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Aug 2, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions

One thing this doesn’t take into account is power play points. I won’t argue that they are good defensively but the lack of a real point getter hurts our PP. If we could acquire someone who could put up more points on special teams our season total in points might jump up even more. Obviously that comes at a risk (such as with Rafalski heading up the PP left us exposed for short handed goals).

by dsarch on Aug 2, 2009 5:34 PM EDT reply actions

Oft overlooked

by critics of the Devils’ defense last year is their goals against.

In 82 games they gave up 209 goals. That put them in 4th place in the running for the Jennings, and 2nd behind only Boston (196 GA) in the East (by 13 goals).

In the East, the next closest team was the Rangers (218 GA), and they were lauded all year as an impressive defensive team.

In the West, the only two teams that gave up fewer goals than the Devils were San Jose (204 GA) and Minnesota (200 GA). Sensing a trend in the defensive philosophy of the three teams that allowed fewer goals (by an average of only 9 GA)?

Goals against aren’t the be all, end all statistic (though a certain argument could be made that at the end of the day, it’s one of the most important), and neither do I mean to suggest that the Devils’ defense couldn’t use some work, but I don’t think they’re given enough credit for their efforts, even by fans, especially considering they did what they did with Clemmensen in net.

by elesias on Aug 3, 2009 8:27 AM EDT reply actions

What the Devils need

The Devils need a Defensman with a good slap shot from the point and another centerman that can carry the puck up ice and make some plays. I would like to see Lou sign Marc Andre Bergeron and Manny Maholtra for servicable parts to add depth to these positions.

The Devils defense will score more points along with more production from the forwards and with the addition of an effective slap shot from the point. Defensively they are fine.

by njdevil247 on Aug 5, 2009 9:49 PM EDT reply actions