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The New Jersey Devils Will Remain Shorthanded for the Time Being

Some in the media would have you believe that there being only 17 Devils in Monday's game is a crisis. (Photo by Christopher Pasatieri/Getty Images)

I've raised the possibility of the Devils playing with a short roster last week; and as seen on Monday, it became reality. The Devils played the Pittsburgh Penguins with only 15 skaters: 9 forwards and 6 defensemen - and the fanbase knew full well why.  In that game's recap, I said the short roster certainly contributed to the loss, and the issue needs to be resolved as soon as possible.  With Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond sent down to Albany and Adam Mair signed (confirmed here by Tom Gulitti), the Devils now have 16 skaters who can play hockey.   So they're still short two forwards of your standard 12-forward, 6-defenseman lineup, and will be for at least tomorrow's game.

Given that news came out that Brian Rolston possibly has a sports hernia, as reported here by Tom Gulitti, Lou's holding off on making a move until he gets further information on the status of Anton Volchenkov and Rolston.  I believe this is to see how serious these injuries are.  Per Gulitti's post, Rolston's going to get a second opinion, and Volchenkov is definitely out this week - who knows for future weeks.  As much as I want to see a permanent move made to clear cap space, I think this is the right course of action.  Should they be out for a significant amount of time, they can be put on long term injured reserve retroactively and while that would only further delay the inevitable, it would give the team space to call up additional players.  For now, it's 16 skaters along with Martin Brodeur and Johan Hedberg.

I want to highlight a comment by user triumph44 in the news update Kevin posted up earlier:

there are teams, including the devils, who play their 4th line between 3 and 5 minutes. it’s really not a big deal, temporarily.

This is true for the most part.  I looked at the average time on ice of the Devils who played on the fourth line last season and posted the results in this comment.  To summarize: the only ones who had more than 10 minutes per game throughout their season were Dean McAmmond and Vladimir Zharkov, who both played on higher lines in some games.  Those who stayed on that fourth line - Rod Pelley, Ilkka Pikkarainen, Leblond, and Andrew Peters - all averaged between 5 and 8 minutes.   In the first game of the season, Pelley and Leblond got 5:18 and 3:27, respectively.  Those are the kind players that are missing on the shortened roster; not important players.

When a team "shortens the bench" as the game goes on, which is common in the NHL, that usually means the fourth line isn't getting regular shifts.  I would also like to add that some teams do use 7 defensemen in some games, meaning they don't have a full fourth line of forwards from the start of the game.  Some teams rest players in games that are of little consequence, usually by the end of the season when their fate is decided.   The larger point is that the Devils aren't undercut by missing some big minute players. They're undercut by not having a group of depth forwards spell the others.   And some teams do that anyway depending on situation with little fanfare.

Which makes me a bit amazed (and not a good amazed) at some of the developments from some the hockey world at large.  It's as if this is a crisis or something.  Keep triumph44's point in mind as you read on.

Star-divide

The first comes by way of Nick Kypreos of Sportsnet.  The NHLPA apparenly isn't happy about the Devils having played with 15 skaters.  He tweeted the following this afternoon:

Donald Fehr and #NHLPA to conduct an internal review to see if the CBA was violated when #Devils decided to only dress 15 skaters.

Thanks to user DevsFan520, who put this up in this FanShot.  This is ridiculous by the PA (not Kypreos, he's just the messenger here) because last night wasn't the first time a team played with less than 18 skaters in a game due to a combination of injuries, a suspension, and a lack of salary cap space.  It wasn't even the first time the Devils had to do that.  As Tom Gulitti tweeted, the Devils had to endure for 6 games with less than 18 skaters in 2006-07 (and impressively won all 6 of those games).  If precedent means anything, then this review will go nowhere.

In addition to precedent, what can the PA actually do?  Not have the power to force New Jersey to send a player/NHLPA member to the minors just to make space for injury replacements?  Claim that the Devils could have listed Volchenkov and Rolston as active and simply not play them?  Talk a whole lot with no action?  This review will probably go nowhere, if only because of their great work in arguing for Ilya Kovalchuk in the arbitration hearing.  Basically, I have the same takes as Larry Brooks on the PA's sudden questioning into the Devils.

But the PA investigating this pales in comparison of Derian Hatcher and his shortsightedness.  Here's his quote to the Courier Post by way of the Puck Daddy Greg Wyshynski.

"It's a joke," Hatcher said during the Flyers' season opener against the Colorado Avalanche at the Wells Fargo Center. "I've never seen that happen in my career. In my opinion, he's mocking the league. It's embarrassing."

...

"I would think the players' association will step in and do something about it," Hatcher said. "You can't let that happen."

Derian Hatcher was in the league in 2006-07, playing for Philadelphia. You know, when the Devils played short for 6 games.  I wish I knew what those 6 games were, because it'd be hilarious if Hatcher actually was on the ice for any of them. (Check the update in...5 sentences)   Anyway, presuming he paid attention in recent seasons, he'd have known Calgary went short too - something Wyshynski even cites.  Had he remembered either situation, he'd also know that the PA and the NHL did absolutely nothing about it; and to do so now would be rank hypocrisy.

Maybe he just forgot.  Maybe he never noticed.  Maybe he just got it wrong.  UPDATE: IILWT user acasser did the legwork and found out that Hatcher actually played in one of those 6 games where the Devils played with a short roster.  Thank you to acasser, and now I further scoff at Mr. Hatcher.   Heh.

At least Hatcher didn't beclown himself with down-right laughable claims by some of the media.  Get this, the Devils icing 15 skaters in Monday's game was bad...for the fans.    Here's Wyshynski getting all populist near the end of his own post today on the matter:

A few games of leniency from the NHL is understandable, because injuries happen; but if the Devils are allowed to compete with 16 or 15 skaters on multiple occasions this season in an effort to avoid making more difficult decisions with regard to the cap, then they should suffer consequences, either financially through fines or in the loss of (even more) draft picks.

Because it's no different than demanding a team have a payroll that reaches a salary "floor" in order to ice a competitive product. 

Because the Devils will never reduce their ticket prices even if the fans are paying to see 3/4 of the lines they should be seeing. 

Because it's not the salary cap's fault Lou Lamoriello doesn't know how to correctly manage it. 

Aside: From the first two sentences, I see Wyshynski is an adherent of the "spirit of the CBA" school of thought. Also known as the, "There's no rule, there's precedent, but I don't like it so let's make up a punishment" school of thought.

It's not just the Puck Daddy crying crocodile tears.  Here's Alan Adams of NHL FanHouse, who wrote an entirely terrible article surrounding his concern for the fans.  Here's a snippet:

But his decision raises a lot of questions.

Aren't clubs supposed to dress their best teams?

Aren't fans doling out their hard-earned cash expecting to see the best possible product on the ice?

Doesn't this speak to the integrity of the product, the credibility of the collective agreement?

In the end, it's the fans who end up losing the most.

As a third example, because three seems to be a magic number, here's Nick Kypreos' tweeting his initial reaction to the team playing 15 skaters that's in line with this eye-roll inducing point

Injuries/susp' aren't acceptable reasons to ice inferior line-up to paying NJ tix holders. Can't ever imagine NFL, MLB NBA doing the same.

As a season ticket holder and a Devils supporter who was at the game, their "concern" is garbage.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm quite offended by others claiming I've been wronged somehow.  Let me get this straight:  Are Wyshynski, Adams, Kypreos, et al actually arguing that I was cheated out of the money because they don't have a complete fourth line?  A fourth line that sees limited minutes on most nights, as triumph44 pointed out?  A fourth line that is usually subjected to the bench when coaches shorten it in a game?  A fourth line that would feature, who exactly?  Pelley and 2 call ups from Albany?   The argument is that missing that completed fourth line made the Devils that much inferior to Pittsburgh, a game that ended 3-1 with an empty net goal by the Penguins, and so the fans lost out.  They cannot be so serious to say such shortsighted foolishness; yet that's apparently what I'm reading, in the typed word.

I understand hyperbole is big in the media.  Would it be hyperbole to claim such points as hysterical?

I did say that the short roster contributed to the loss in that it put the Devils in a difficult situation to start.  But in the recap I wrote, I went to great lengths to explain that the Devils' performance had more to do with the loss than the number of players available. The game was close on the scoreboard and that the Devils sprung some hope late in the game. No, they didn't get the equalizer, but the Devils definitely didn't ice an inferior roster or give a wasted effort like the third period against the Capitals.  The Devils had their best players on the ice: the watchable Ilya Kovalchuk, the dynamic Zach Parise, the rising star of Travis Zajac, the smooth skills of Patrik Elias, etc.  They started Martin Brodeur in net.  They didn't sit anyone down unless they couldn't play.

A full fourth line would have been nice, but let's not pretend that alone would have led to a Devils victory. John MacLean said it best after the game, reported here by Rich Chere, the roster size was not an excuse for the loss.  He's absolutely right, if only because it wasn't a blow out.  It's not like they were the Anaheim Ducks out there.

Moreover, since when did the media ever give a damn about the fan other then when to create their own point?  If you want to blame Lou Lamoriello for the Devils getting into this mess on the cap and/or not making a permanent move to make space, then you'll get no argument out of me.  After all, I said this was a real possibility and it came true.  The site is called In Lou We Trust - not Lou Is Infallible. 

But I, for one, refuse to be your rhetorical prop.   To suggest that I and the 12,879* at the game were somehow wronged in all of this, that we wasted our money and time to go to the game, because the Devils weren't able to get two more forwards to create a 10-minutes-at-the-very-most line of forwards is simply ludicrous.  Maybe I'm the fool and someone feels otherwise, but I doubt that the Devils missing two fourth liners on Monday would be so offensive to anyone at that game.  As noted earlier, this wasn't the first time it happened and it probably won't be the last given the future.

If they or anyone else in the media are that concerned about the fans about this issue, then I would suggest asking a few before assuming they're losers in all of this.

Anyway, the situation is what it is now.  The Devils will have 16 skaters tomorrow unless some move is made prior to the game in Buffalo against the Sabres.  There may or may not be more moronic commentary about it.  Feel free to discuss this issue however you wish.  Thanks for reading.  *(Pro-tip to the schedule makers: Don't schedule afternoon games on days that most people don't get off. It's bad for attendance.)

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Short lineup is an advantage fans should be happy about.

Who do you want to watch, a fourth liner or an NHL all-star.

Top three lines should have no problem putting in 20 minutes a piece.

by Chip Arm on Oct 12, 2010 8:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Devils hockey is rolling four lines. There is a time and a place for a fourth line. It is not entertaining to watch all-stars tired in a few months.

"Potential means you ain't done it yet" - Bill Parcells

by DownGoesAvery on Oct 13, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s funny, I thought I was robbed of my ticket price by the officials that called 3 or 4 total BS penalties (good defense of a Best Supporting Actor Oscar though) and then “let the boys play” in the thrid when the Devs showed inspired effort.

by Murdoc on Oct 12, 2010 8:28 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree with your remarks, John.

The 4th line very rarely gets much playing time in the NHL, especially when you have three very capable and talented lines as the Devils do. I don’t think it particularly helped that Rolston suffered the injury, as that nullified the effectiveness of one more player on the ice. But it’s not nearly a big of a deal as the media has made it out to be. I don’t think the average Devils fan has suffered without a 4th line. If anything, we got to see more time for our favorite players. Really, I think the 4th line is most effective for changing up matchups on the ice. I don’t think major league players in their third game of the season will be tired by playing a little bit more in a game.

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

by Tim G on Oct 12, 2010 8:49 PM EDT reply actions  

I wish I knew what those 6 games were, because it’d be hilarious if Hatcher actually was on the ice for any of them.

Well, TG put them in his Twitter feed (I let the thing scroll on the Fire & Ice site and cross-checked the games with my media guide). You’ve got the following games in there:

  • October 9, 2006 vs. Chicago. Devils won 2-1 in a shoot-out.
  • March 8, 2007 at Pittsburgh. (TG says 3/7, but my media guide says otherwise). Devils won 4-3 in a shoot-out.
  • March 10, 2007 at Buffalo. Devils won 3-2 in regulation.
  • April 1, 2007 vs. Ottawa. Devils won 3-1.
  • April 3, 2007 vs. Boston. Devils won 3-2 in a shoot-out.
  • April 5, 2007 vs. Philadelphia. Devils won 3-2 in regulation.

Hatcher was still active with Philly that season. I went digging on nhl.com for his game logs, which indicate he was active and busy that night, although relatively quiet on the stat sheet.

by acasser on Oct 12, 2010 9:18 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Derian Hatcher's memory isn't very good.

AWESOME. I’m going to link to this comment in the post. Thank you.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Oct 12, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, maybe he wanted to forget this....

Let me take this a step further: NHL.com’s game recap.

The recap itself says nothing about the Devils being shorthanded…. but then again it wasn’t really the story of the night when it was all said and done. That was the evening Brodeur broke Bernie Parent’s single-season record for wins by a goalie, after all.

Then again, considering how miserable the Flyers were that season, Hatcher might just wish to forget the entire year, and not just the one game.

by acasser on Oct 12, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

just putting this out there …. but we scored one goalwith the same lineup except adam mair against a career back up (except he played well), now we face arguably the best goalie in the world…………….. need more production tommorow

by KovyisLove on Oct 12, 2010 10:09 PM EDT reply actions  

No

Are Wyshynski, Adams, Kypreos, et al actually arguing that I was cheated out of the money because they don’t have a complete fourth line?

No. But you were cheated out of seeing the top six being able to mount a proper effort to tie the game at the end when they were sucking wind at 2-1.

Or maybe an energy shift after the Penguins’ second goal.

by Wyshynski on Oct 12, 2010 10:23 PM EDT reply actions  

You say cheated, I don't think you quite understood this post.
But you were cheated out of seeing the top six being able to mount a proper effort to tie the game at the end when they were sucking wind at 2-1.

Really. The team certainly was putting out a proper effort from where I was sitting at the game. The crowd wasn’t cheering significantly louder for nothing. But let’s see if that’s true or not.

From the official play by play of the game after the Elias goal:

10:33 SOG #17 Kovalchuk Devils Fwds – 17, 19, 23
10:46 SOG #23 Clarkson Devils Fwds – 17, 19, 23
10:54 SOG #23 Clarkson Devils Fwds – 17, 19, 23
11:43 SOG #25 Arnott Devils Fwds – 25, 15, 9
18:38 SOG #17 Kovalchuk Devils Fwds – 23, 17, 26

This list doesn’t include Zajac’s drive to the net where he deked out Johnson but couldn’t put the puck past the post, that wasn’t counted as a shot (it went into the outside of the post, fair enough). Pittsburgh had 4 SOG (1 was the empty net goal), 3 misses, and 1 blocked shot since then. So the Devils outshot the Pens after the goal. Whether you feel that was “proper” is up to you; but I and most of the Rock felt it was.

Given that it was a 2-1 score with about half of the period left, a fourth line was going to see, what, one shift at most, since most? So a fourth line would be inconsequential; shortening the bench in another situation would have led to 9 forwards anyway.

Or maybe an energy shift after the Penguins’ second goal.

The second goal was a rebound that hit off Tallinder’s skate and in. The Devils didn’t need energy, they needed to string two passes together through the neutral zone to generate something in Pittsburgh’s end.

Getting back to the larger point, no, Greg, I don’t feel cheated and I don’t think a full fourth line would have gotten the Devils to a victory over Pittsburgh. Or Washington or Dallas, where the Devils went with 18 skaters but 11 forwards – which amazingly got no outcry from anyone looking to sensationalize a point.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Oct 12, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

And another thing

Take a quick look at the event summary from the Pittsburgh game for the ice time. Notice that no forward on NJ nearly as much as Pittsburgh’s top three defenders. Notice that the only forward to have played much more than he ever had to was Pelley at 18:05. It really isn’t out of place to see Kovalchuk, Zajac, Langenbrunner (last season’s top RW) and Parise top 20 minutes; nor is it to see Elias, Zubrus, and Clarkson to play as much either. Arnott actually got off a bit light, looking back at it now.

The only young/depth guys who took on way more than usual was Pelley and Taormina, who’s been getting 20-minute workloads since the start of the season and is only mentioned here since he’s a rookie.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Oct 12, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

i thought maclean did an excellent job with the forwards.

the one criticism i think wyshynski can make is that maclean was forced to constantly mix and match forwards because of PK/PP stuff, so the lines were all jumbled up for a large portion of the game. so in other words it just reminded the forwards of last year.

by Triumph44 on Oct 13, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Devils didn’t need energy, they needed to string two passes together through the neutral zone to generate something in the offensive end.

A shortened roster has been a diversion from this truth. (bolded change because it wasn’t just the last game)

by Murdoc on Oct 13, 2010 6:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am going to go out on a limb. Despite being against what is going on, I believe that Devils fans are going to MISS the shorthanded lineup within 3 weeks.

"Potential means you ain't done it yet" - Bill Parcells

by DownGoesAvery on Oct 13, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great job dude
This was a real good read, the facts about a certain ex-Flyer’s amnesiatic state were interesting and article seemed passionately written! well done

by Los Diablos on Oct 12, 2010 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Just Because.....

the 4th liners weren’t used last year doesn’t mean 4th liners shouldn’t be used. And it’s not about having a 4th line. It’s about having ready access to replacements should someone get sick or have a day to day injury. What if Adam Mair has explosive diarrhea tomorrow and can’t play? That’s why you need depth. (not specifically for explosive diarrhea but you get the point)

Leaning on the Salvador LTIR has burned them, as John wrote about last week and stated above. The team should have made the proper cap moves earlier. If the proper moves were made to shed salary you could have had servicable players fielding minutes yesterday.

Because it’s not the salary cap’s fault Lou Lamoriello doesn’t know how to correctly manage it.

Harsh, but unfortunately true.

I still love the fact that the Devils have a capologist on staff. Is he an intern?

by Tom Stivali on Oct 12, 2010 10:53 PM EDT reply actions  

hey john great article. im glad you referenced the adams article that i posted a link to in the last discussion thread. it really iritated me. but i do agree with you and tom as well about how lou should have made moves sooner rather than later. but for reporters to argue the devils should be penalized because they cheated the fans is just ridiculous. what if the devils did dress 18 skaters, but decided not to use 3 of them just for fun? would they be penalized then too? the idea of player safety and healh is a good point to make here, but none of the reporters are doing that, theyre just saying lou is cheating the system. and adams goes and says it wasent an emregency. they were not sure if rolston or volchenkov would be ready to go or not, so they had to wait until gameday to see. even if they had the cap space they would not have been able to call up anyone in time anyways.

by poopydoodie11 on Oct 12, 2010 11:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Good Point

What if Rolston and ATrain just hung out on the bench in uniform? The hockey blogging God’s wouldn’t know what to do with themselves they would be so PO’d

by Tom Stivali on Oct 12, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol theyd probably just be spiteful and say it was all lou lamoriellos doing

by poopydoodie11 on Oct 12, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Oct 12, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

He must start at least one game before the road trip is over. Maybe, hopefully two. Remember, the general consensus was to rest Marty 10-15 games this year. That means every 7-8 games, he gets a game off. You cannot deny that he is aging and would benefit from rest. I’m not saying it has to be EVERY 7-8 games, but when the schedule is heavy, he needs rest. He should never start more than 3 games in a week.

"Potential means you ain't done it yet" - Bill Parcells

by DownGoesAvery on Oct 13, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Devils aren’t on a road trip. They’re in Buffalo tonight and then go back home this Friday and Saturday.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Oct 13, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

long time (reader), first time (writer).

I really don’t buy the argument that 4th liners don’t play that many minutes, so it shouldn’t really be that big a deal. No one can argue that the Devils are at a severe disadvantage by fielding 9 forwards on any given night.

Although the minutes fielded by those extra three aren’t that large, they add a dimension to the game that the Devils don’t have at their disposal. Coming off a tough penalty kill? Send out the energy line. Need to some extra jump after the opposition scores? Send ’em out.

We all know that little things win hockey games. I just feel like the players out there are trying to do too much. Their shifts are shortened, and they want to make an impact. Kovy’s terrible play at center ice at the end of the first period is an example of someone trying to do too much.

Let’s not overanalyze whether the Devils being short handed is hurting the fans or not. It’s hurting the team (in the short and long term), and it needs to be fixed. That’s really the bottom line here.

by dasru on Oct 12, 2010 11:12 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

meant to say “…can argue that the Devils aren’t…”

by dasru on Oct 12, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed, its not the fans who are hurt here, its the team

by poopydoodie11 on Oct 12, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome
I really don’t buy the argument that 4th liners don’t play that many minutes, so it shouldn’t really be that big a deal. No one can argue that the Devils are at a severe disadvantage by fielding 9 forwards on any given night.

I’m not saying it’s not a disadvantage, but it’s not severe. Look at the ATOI of fourth liners. The numbers clearly show that they don’t play many minutes.

Coming off a tough penalty kill? Send out the energy line. Need to some extra jump after the opposition scores? Send ’em out.

Why? Why does a fourth line have to be the energy line? The Devils have an incredibly talented top 2 lines, wouldn’t it be more fortuitous to pound the opposition when their top offensive players are coming off a PP? If you’re looking for a response after a goal against, why not try working for a goal for yourself? Why put out depth forwards who aren’t necessarily good (otherwise they’d be on higher lines) after the opposition succeeds in scoring or fails on a PP? It doesn’t make tactical sense.

We all know that little things win hockey games.

Indeed. Matchups are one of them. I don’t think a unit featuring Leblond and Pelley are going to winning too many of them.

I just feel like the players out there are trying to do too much. Their shifts are shortened, and they want to make an impact. Kovy’s terrible play at center ice at the end of the first period is an example of someone trying to do too much.

A full fourth line does nothing to stop any of this. MacLean could have commanded shorter shifts regardless to keep his lines fresh as possible for when he wants to match up against Crosby or Malkin. Players make mistakes and try to do too much regardless of how many players are on a roster.

It’s hurting the team (in the short and long term), and it needs to be fixed. That’s really the bottom line here.

I agree it is a problem and it needs to be fixed. I just don’t think it’s a crisis, I certainly don’t believe the fans are being hurt, and I think the Devils have more critical on-ice problems to address to win games moreso than having the space to call up one or two young guys from Albany.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Oct 12, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

perhaps severe isn’t really the right term here. I do think that the general hockey world is making way too big a deal about this than they should, and it’s obviously because of the offseason attention that the Devils got.

Why? Why does a fourth line have to be the energy line?

I’m not saying that they have to put them out, I was just trying to say that this is something that they simply don’t have the option to do, and as Lou even said, it’s handcuffing MacLean in certain situations.

I certainly don’t believe the fans are being hurt, and I think the Devils have more critical on-ice problems to address to win games moreso than having the space to call up one or two young guys from Albany.

Absolutely agree. Things that we are used to seeing the Devils do from game to game is simply not there. I haven’t seen the Devils lose so many board battles in a very long time.

by dasru on Oct 13, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

The main arguement against that is take this senario:

Devils kill a 5 on 3 in which they were SHORTHANDED for 3 minutes. Assume that is four shifts or so. Who was used during that time? Zajac, Elias, Parise, probably Rolston, Zubrus, Langenbrunner, Mair…those guys need a minute or two off, because killing penalties is more intense than a 5 on 5/PP shift.

"Potential means you ain't done it yet" - Bill Parcells

by DownGoesAvery on Oct 13, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome to life as a Flyers fan. It really sucks when your GM mismanages a salary cap doesn’t it? That said, Lou(Unlike Paul Holmgren) is a smart guy and I think he’ll right the ship. You are still the clear favorite to win the division IMO.

One more thing I’ll say. If you guys make the playoffs I don’t believe there is a salary cap is there? If not then you’d be fine for a deep run. Might even be a back door Lou kind of lucked into that in a way legally circumvents the cap right? Not sure how that all works. I wish our GM’s bad decisions always seemed to work out for the best. :(

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 12, 2010 11:46 PM EDT reply actions  

There is no salary cap in the playoffs I believe.

In Lou We Trust: Freshly signed to the last 15 year deal in the history of SBNation
If the quality of my posts begin to get better, it's because i'm doing steroids.

by Kevin Sellathamby on Oct 13, 2010 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

i.e. Richard Matvichuk…

"Potential means you ain't done it yet" - Bill Parcells

by DownGoesAvery on Oct 13, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can solve this… they call me up, I’ll sit on the bench, everyone stops making a big deal and calling in the PA, and more importantly I get some good seats

by 5th Shift on Oct 13, 2010 12:33 AM EDT reply actions  

the flyers basically did this in 09, fwiw.

by Triumph44 on Oct 13, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

problem is, the minimum salary they’d HAVE to pay you would put them over the cap (before Rollie went on LTIR).

Go Devils
Go Jets
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by FrankG929 on Oct 13, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

not true. you can sign an amateur try out contract for one game where the team does not pay you. google david sloane flyers, for instance.

by Triumph44 on Oct 14, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

NBA teams play shorthanded

I’m gonna be lazy and not look up an example, but after the mega in-season trades in the NBA (6+ players moving), teams have dressed as little as 7 or 8 players. The three you traded away aren’t eligible and the three you got aren’t in town yet. I’m also pretty sure the rosters were severely depleted after the brawl in Detroit.

The MLB doesn’t have a cap (and actually allows a huge roster in September), so they’re a terrible comparison.

As for the fans getting shorted, has anyone every gone to a game saying “man, I hope I get to see the 4th line a lot”?

by NJHockey8 on Oct 13, 2010 1:21 AM EDT reply actions  

I think it's fairly common in baseball, too

You “dress” your 25 on every pre-September night, but it often happens that 1-2 of those players are injured, but not severely enough to be placed on the 15-day DL (Volchenkov and Rolston fit that pattern to a T, right now).

by sjohnson125 on Oct 13, 2010 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

You’re comparing a sport as brilliant as hockey to a sport like the NBA…not exactly “fair.”

"Potential means you ain't done it yet" - Bill Parcells

by DownGoesAvery on Oct 13, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The reason some hockey fans are pissed about not dressing a full lineup is that NHL rules only allow for fewer than 18 skaters to be dressed in an emergency and you can make a strong case that failure to manage the cap properly is not an emergency. However, this seems to be one of the rules that is on the books but not really enforced. A couple of seasons ago Calgary had no cap room at the end of the season and had to play undermanned. You can argue both ways on that as to whether or not it was a real emergency. They did have a rather extraordinary number of injuries at the time, but still, the real problem was no cap space. Lou seems, so far, to have found a convenient way to avoid having to deal with cap issues. He is, in effect, having his cake and eating it too and that is what is pissing people off.

by Zontar on Oct 13, 2010 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m sure he really wants the current situation. The injury to Salvadore may have been convenient, but it certainly isn’t ideal. It’s left the devils with 2.5 rookies on defense, and 2 other guys playing their first game in the system. Cake and eating it?

Stud shutdown defender eats a puck to the face and leaves you short handed. Not convenient. Not out for a month, but still out. Can’t bring someone else to fill in the hole. I see no cake.

Rolston hurt, and even if he’s out for 2 months for a hernia, it’s not ideal. IT will provide monor relief to the short bench issue, only to require even more “management” when he gets healthy, and knowing the league penchant for raping the Devils at any given opportunity, he’d most likely be forced off LTIR when he laces up his first skate to even see if he can stand up on ice again. Again, momentarily convenient, but no cake here. It even completely squashed the cake by removing any potential trade value for Mr. Rolston.

So…that leaves destroying a guy’s career by banishing him to the minors (only to give him away at half price if you need him again during the season), or trading one of the few guys who aren’t clause protected for a bag of pucks. Yup…plenty of eating cake there.

Oh, let’s not jsut gloss over that the Devils have managed one point in three games so far. All these convenient cap management tools and loopholes sure are helping the team succeed. In the soon-to-be-immortal words of Marty “What are they going to do to us, take away the two points we didn’t get?”

Guys getting hurt has always been an “emergency” in the past. Deal with it and move on. Would it make you feel better if Rolston and Volchenkov put on their skates and sat on the bench all game with Mr. Hedberg? Maybe that would get the sand out.

by Murdoc on Oct 13, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

The rule is you can’t have less than 20 players on your roster. As long as that continues to be the case (LTIR won’t count as ‘on the roster’ here) it shouldn’t be a circumvention. There’s no rule that you have to write 20 names on the lineup card, only that you have to have 20 names that you CAN write on the lineup card. In theory, i think MacLean could “dress” players that aren’t even in the arena as long as they are on the Devils roster. (In fact, i know you can, though this has only been used for players that are expected to arrive at some point during the game)

Of course, as John said, NHL standard operating procedure on such matters is

There’s no rule, there’s precedent, but I don’t like it so let’s make up a punishment

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.

by Ubiquitous on Oct 13, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

In theory, i think MacLean could "dress" players that aren’t even in the arena as long as they are on the Devils roster.

Off topic here, but I remember when the NBA had similar rules under the old rosters (when it was a 12-man active roster with a 3-man IR, rather than a flat 15 and pick any 12 you wish to dress that night). I grew up a Nets fan with season tickets, and remember their really dark days (when they stunk) in the late ‘80s when the roster was badly depleted by injuries. The PA guy would announce the Nets’ starting lineup, and then follow that with the coaches/trainers/etc., and then follow that with “The following guys are dressed tonight but will not play….” All to satisfy a silly NBA rule about a required minimum number of dressed players, you’d get guys in their uniform but physically unable to perform.

Ah…. memories.

by acasser on Oct 13, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes, i remember when the league forced matvichuk off IR in 2007.

by Triumph44 on Oct 13, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is NHLPA-driven(i.e. the player files a grievence through the NHLPA), i believe. At least it was for the one sabres-related case.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.

by Ubiquitous on Oct 13, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

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