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Trading for Ilya Kovalchuk was the Right Call: A Defense of the Deal

Was the Kovalchuk trade worth it? In my opinion, yes. (Photo by Jim McIsaac/Getty Images)

After an early playoff exit for pretty much any team in pretty much any sport, the analysis and "expert" opinion quickly comes out in articles, posts, and other media.  Fingers are pointed. Questions are raised.  Decisions made during the season are second guessed.  Veiled accusations are made.  So on and so forth, both from people who follow the team regularly and those who just swoop in like vultures picking a carcass.

One of the biggest stories of the 2009-10 season was the big trade for Ilya Kovalchuk back in February.  As a reminder, here's the full deal: the Atlanta Thrashers received Niclas Bergfors, Johnny Oduya, prospect Patrice Cormier, the Devils' first round pick in 2010, and the Devils' second round pick in 2010.  In exchange, the Devils got Kovalchuk, defenseman Anssi Salmela, and the Thrashers' second round pick in 2010.   Back then, I said it was a bold deal.   The Devils had trouble on offense, Lou went out and pulled in the best available forward in terms of talent and production in exchange for an underwhelming-in-2009-10 Oduya, a rookie winger, a prospect center who's known more for his elbow than his skills, and a pick.

Now that the season has ended in failure, it's a legitimate question to raise: was the trade worth it?  This was the main point by Joe Fortunato at From the Rink on Friday. 

But the question is still valid. is it worth giving up the farm for a shot at the cup? Obviously hindsight is 20-20, and in the end it comes down to a case by case basis; but as of right now the Devils have to be kicking themselves. I might be a Rangers fan, but I'm smart enough to know that Lamoriello is one of the best general managers in the league. I was surprised when he made the move, although I'm not entirely surprised that it backfired on him.

The short answer: Yes, Joe.  Yes it was. And I'm not so certain it backfired.  I'll explain more after the jump.

Star-divide

I am a big believer that any time a team has a chance to add an asset that could bolster their talent for the postseason, it compels a team to do it.  Yes, the Devils have failed in the 2010 playoffs as they have done in 2008 and 2009.  Still, a franchise never knows when they are going to have their big opportunity to go deep.  That opportunity may not come again.  I'm telling you my perspective now, as it frames what I think forward in this post.

Moreover and more importantly, it's not every season where a player of Kovalchuk's caliber is available for trade. Especially for what the deal costed in terms of assets.  Joe mentions that the Devils gave up the farm for Kovalchuk, nevermind that the only non-NHL players in the deal were a junior-level prospect, and two draft picks.  The "farm," as it were, is still in Lowell. 

The Future the Devils Gave Up

Joe's not the only one raising this issue of the Devils giving up their future.  Ken Campbell highlighted the Devils' low ranking THN's Future Watch rankings as evidence that not only was the trade regrettable but as a reason - to Campbell's credit not the only one - that the Devils "are no longer a model franchise."  No, I don't think Scott Burnside had a hand in that article. Here's the bit lamenting New Jersey's lack of

The Devils were once the toast of the NHL when it came to player development, but that time has long passed. In THN’s annual Future Watch edition, New Jersey was always among the top teams, even in years when it was winning Stanley Cups and picking late, while the farm team was always stocked with good talent.

But since the lockout, the Devils have been pulling up the rear in Future Watch rankings, finishing 20th in 2006, 27th in 2007, 29th in 2008, 30th in 2009 and 25th in 2010. Their AHL farm team, meanwhile, made the playoffs for the first time in nine years this season, but was bounced in the first round.

The last impact player the Devils chose in the draft was Niclas Bergfors, whom they dealt to the Atlanta Thrashers to get Ilya Kovalchuk. And without a first round pick in this year’s draft, also because of the Kovalchuk trade, there won’t be any help coming from there in the near future.

Jersey has never been afraid to make a big trade, the way it did with the Kovalchuk deal, but the difference before is that it was brimming with prospects and had more NHL-caliber players than it had spots for them to occupy, so it could afford to part with assets. When New Jersey makes a trade like that now, it simply strips the organization of assets it needs and that is so unlike the Devils it’s difficult to comprehend.

With all due respect, Mr. Campbell, but how about opening up these rankings so we can see who was in the system that THN considered for their rankings and compare them to what their current careers are.  I find it amazing that Bergfors is considered here as an impact player nevermind that he was drafted in 2005 and didn't break into the NHL until 2009-10.  Not bad for a team with such a low Future Watch ranking - which ultimately means nothing tangible anyway.  Unless you care that much about what THN thinks.

I want to break down Cormier for a bit, since he was the prospect in this deal.  You know, the "future" part of this deal. He wasn't a bad prospect at all. He was fairly well regarded up there among the Devils' prospects per Hockey's Future as he was the fifth highest ranked prospect back in this evaluation by Jared Ramsden back in August 2009.  Cormier survived the first cut at training camp back in September, sent back to Rimouski so he can continue to develop with playing time. He was named to the 2009 Canadian World Junior Championship team and captained the 2010 Canadian WJC team. Being designated as the team's leader in such an important tournament for prospects on a team loaded with talent is high praise.

But he wasn't the top prospect in New Jersey.  Jacob Josefson, Mattias Tedenby, Matt Corrente and Brandon Burlon are all still Devils prospects - with Corrente having received playing time with New Jersey in spot duty during the season and playoffs.   Most may know Cormier for his elbows; but discipline issues aside, his upside is limited.  Hockey's Future regards his future as the following:

While Cormier may not be the most naturally gifted player, he's a well-rounded a prospect. He possesses both the offensive skill set and defensive acumen to eventually be a two-way force at the next level. Will turn pro in 2010-11.

Take it as you will, it's entirely Cormier may explode in talent in time. We're talking about a player who's most productive season in junior was 51 points in 54 games.  That's pretty good, but he wasn't exactly dominating his peers in scoring. Even so, it sounds to me that the Devils traded someone who could be a solid player, but not anyone exceptional.   The Devils have plenty of two-way forward prospects, who's to say that, say, center Adam Henrique couldn't be that type of player?   Not only did the Devils keep prospects who were more highly regarded in the system in the deal, but they kept players with higher upsides that Cormier in even just Tedenby and Josefson.  Not to mention that Corrente may very well be in New Jersey full-time by next season.

As far as the draft picks go, well, those are wild cards.  Perhaps Atlanta drafts someone great and make this deal look worse in retrospect. Perhaps Atlanta drafts someone who doesn't even make the NHL, which would make this moot.  Given that it usually takes years for prospects to develop fully, they really are unknowns and no one will know until far into the future.  So worrying about it now, I think, is pointless.

My whole point: I really don't know how much anyone can argue that the Devils mortgaged a significant part of their future in this deal.  Cormier could turn out to be a good player and the picks could result in good assets for the Devils.  But as of now, Cormier's not a prime prospect and the draft picks are just that right now - picks.  Not having a first round pick makes the 2010 NHL Draft less interesting for Devils fans, but the later rounds could very well yield solid prospects and the Devils do have a few picks, including Atlanta's second round pick in 2010.

If you rated Cormier that highly, then it may ease your mind that he was a second round pick in 2008.  The Devils may very well get his "replacement" right there.

The NHL Players Shipped Off: Bergfors and Oduya

I could be smug and say that the short-term of the deal didn't hurt New Jersey at all since Atlanta didn't make the playoffs at all.  I won't be though.  Of course, rookie Niclas Bergfors played great right after the trade.  He was quite productive and showed his talent among his potential.


GP G A P +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG GTG SOG PCT
Atlanta 2010 - Nicklas Bergfors 27 8 9 17 -3 0 1 0 2 0 83 9.6

Yet, the key phrase is "right after the trade."  In five games with Atlanta in February, he scored 3 goals (2 game winners) and picked up 1 assist.  A near immediate impact, as he was pointless in his first game.  Yet, a quick look at his game log at NHL.com shows that he really scored here and there in March and April.   For a rookie that's not bad at all, but it wasn't as if he caught on fire and proved Devils fans that trading him was a mistake.  I look at this and see a player who's been useful, not an impact player as Ken Campbell called him.  Unless I'm missing something obvious, I'm not sure what impact.

Now, if Bergfors develops into a regular 30-goal scorer, then I can see how this hurts.  But just like Cormier and the picks, that's a long-term situation.  I believe that's a huge if for Bergfors given it depends on not only what skills will Bergfors grow in, but also what situation he'll be in with Atlanta. Will a new coach utilize him differently?  What about his linemates? From what I've seen of him playing, he's got a good shot, good instincts, yet he's not particularly adept on the boards and he isn't as committed to backchecking.  Some of that will improve over time - hopefully the defensive responsiblities.  But as it is, he's projected out to be a second line winger and as fine as that it is, that's not a difficult role to replace.  There are plenty of second line wingers that can be had through free agency and the draft.  So unless he really is special, I don't think the Devils lost someone special in this deal.

Which brings me to Johnny Oduya.  In 2008-09, I was enamored with his play.  I loved how much he grew as a defender. I said multiple times last summer that the Devils needed, needed, and really needed to keep him. I was very glad that the Devils re-signed him.  Unfortunately, Oduya leapt back completely as a Devil.  Prior to his injury, he was making multiple, costly mistakes and providing nothing up front.  After his injury, he wasn't making as many mistakes but still found himself starting on the third pairing and still providing very little offense.  At the end of the season, I explained why I felt he played below expectations in New Jersey.


GP G A P +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG GTG SOG PCT
Atlanta 2010 - Johnny Oduya 27 1 8 9 6 12 0 0 0 0 24 4.2

In Atlanta, Oduya certainly was more productive and regularly played 20-21 minutes a night, with more ice time logged as the season came to a close per the game log at NHL.com.  Since Behind the Net doesn't breakdown on-ice/off-ice stats for players who played on multiple teams, I'm a little hesitant to say he was better in Atlanta than he was in New Jersey.  It doesn't seem that he was as underwhelming as he was a Devil. 

At age 28, I doubt he's going to develop much more; and I still think he's a talented top-4-caliber defenseman.  Yet, with the ascent of Andy Greene, this season I'd almost say he's already been replaced.

My main point with this section: The Devils may have given up useful players in Bergfors and Oduya, but they aren't irreplaceable.  Short of Bergfors skyrocketing as a player and Oduya figuring out how to improve on his 2008-09 form, I don't see how the Devils will be burnt by this.

Essentially, I'm really not sure how one can argue the Devils gave up a whole lot for Kovalchuk, much less Kovalchuk plus young defenseman Anssi Salmela.  Again let me repeat the cost: A first round draft pick (the second rounders were swapped).  No prospect with a major upside.  A then-rookie winger who has good but not great potential. A defenseman who struggled to meet expectations after his new contract.  Had Lou shipped off Tedenby or Josefson, then there's more of an actual argument that the Devils dealt away their future - but I'm not buying it and I don't think Devils fans should either.

If this was all it took to snag a winger who's had multiple 50-goal seasons, then I don't see how any GM in the league wouldn't have made this move.   Perhaps for that alone

The Player Itself: Kovalchuk

Well, since he is the focal point for this entire discussion, let's now evaluate Kovalchuk as a Devil:


GP G A P +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG GTG SOG PCT
Devils 2010 - Ilya Kovalchuk 27 10 17
27 9
8
2
0 1
0 111 9.0
Playoffs 2010 - Ilya Kovalchuk 5 2 4 6 0 6 1 0 0 0 19 10.5

How was Kovalchuk right after the trade? Well, good but not great, as I said in this in-depth analysis made mid-way through March.  But by the end of March, I felt he was worthy of the Devil of the Month distinction; and again in April as one of the few Devils who was productive in both the regular season and the playoffs.  I listed my reasons for both in those linked posts. To that end, I think he did well as a Devil.   That he was able to settle down a bit in New Jersey in his personal life and the birth of his third child seemed to take a load off his shoulders and that translated to his performances, leading to more points.  Rarely did he have a bad game as a Devil, and if the concern is that he tries to do too much - well, given what the Devils fans witnessed in the postseason, I'll take that concern everytime over the opposite.

Of course, with a player as blessed with talent as Kovalchuk, the expectations are higher and so 10 goals may not be enough.  I don't necessarily agree.  A point per game pace since coming to New Jersey despite a huge drop in shooting percentage - 17.6 as a Thrasher, just 9.0 as a Devil - is pretty impressive to me.  The whole point of getting a scorer like Kovalchuk was for him to produce and I'd say that 33 total points in 32 games suffices as production.  If you think that wasn't enough, then I'd like to know what would be reasonable to expect.

What he didn't do was make the Devils instantly better. The team still slumped into the Olympics and the performances in March were mixed overall.   Also, the power play still muddled it's way through the final few months of the season and into the playoffs despite the addition of Kovalchuk.   I don't think that can be entirely Kovalchuk's fault, you'd have to look at the games itself as to why the Devils lost so many more times in 2010 than they did 2009.  As for the power play, Kovalchuk's done what the coaches have told him. Given the personnel, I'd say the lack of success at just consistently threatening teams with the power play falls on the coaches, come to think of it.

Speaking of, Kovalchuk has had not one public issue as a Devil.  Not one complaint. Not one incident where one had to wonder if he caused a problem.  I'd like to take this moment to point out this part of Ken Campbell's article on THN about the Devils: Be amazed by the contradiction.

It doesn’t help when Kovalchuk is brought into an atmosphere where it was impossible for him to be a good fit. He played well; actually it looked like he was playing his heart out, but an individual talent such as Kovalchuk can’t be incorporated into the Devils culture that quickly and seamlessly.

Impossible? Or can't be incorporated that quickly? They're not the same, so which is it, Ken?

As to whether he was a good fit or not, here's Lou Lamoriello on Kovalchuk, as reported by Tom Gulitti in this post.  I think it pretty much answers this:

"We certainly would like to keep him," Lamoriello said. "He has been anything and everything that we have asked of him. He’s been a solid citizen. He’s bought into the program. He’s given the effort. So, there is no question that we would like him to be a Devil."

...

"Some of the things that Ilya did, you don’t correct over a short period of time," Lamoriello said. "He didn’t do anything that wasn’t asked of him, but he is a player that could become a Devil very quickly."

The bold is my emphasis and I don't have anything to add to that.  I think it's pretty clear. Someone let Campbell know and then ask whether or not he was a good fit in the New Jersey Devils organization.

My point: Kovalchuk did well in New Jersey and I don't think the playoff failure is really his fault or even mostly his fault.  Of course, being a member of that team he does share some of the blame.  But I don't believe that had Lou not make this deal, all things being equal, the Devils don't encounter the same problems in the postseason.  To state otherwise only serves to make Kovalchuk a scapegoat.  He did what was he told, he put in the effort, he put up points, there's no indication he caused any problems in the locker room or elsewhere, and if the sole issue was that the coaches couldn't implement him correctly - that's on the coaches, not Kovalchuk.  The only promise Kovalchuk didn't deliver on was winning Game 5, but the team's performance and on-ice mentality ensured that wasn't coming true - not necessarily Kovalchuk himself.

So, no, I don't think the deal backfired because the team failed - Kovalchuk didn't flop as a Devil.

The Worst Case Scenario: Kovalchuk Doesn't Re-Sign

The big elephant in the room for the Devils is whether Kovalchuk is offered to re-sign in New Jersey.  Let me repeat that: offered to be re-signed.  It's not whether Lou re-signs Kovalchuk.  As Kovalchuk is an unrestricted free agent, it's up to Kovalchuk and his agent to determine what they want.  All Lou can do is make an offer.  Kovalchuk can accept or reject it.  Simple as that.

While the Kovalchuk trade reminded some fans immediately of the Alexander Mogilny deal in 2000, this may turn out to be a repeat of the Doug Gilmour trade in 1997. 

Lou sent three young players: forward Steve Sullivan, defenseman Jason Smith, and prospect Alyn McCauley to Toronto for Gilmour.  I believe his contract then was through 1998, so it wasn't quite a rental but Lou saw those players off for good. In 1996-97 and in 1997-98, Gilmour put up some very good numbers as a Devil but didn't help them get over the proverbial playoff hump and signed with Chicago after the 1998 playoffs.  The Devils did indeed give up three very good young players and both Sullivan and Smith have enjoyed very fine careers in their own right.   In retrospect, more was given up in that deal and yet the Devils were still able to continue on after Gilmour - and eventually far more success in both the regular season and the playoffs.

So, there's precedent that good players can be shipped off and it won't necessarily kill off the Devils' chances of doing well in future seasons.

Again, since I don't believe the Devils gave up so much in this trade, Kovalchuk not re-signing doesn't mean the Devils will get screwed by the deal in the future.  It doesn't mean that the deal to bring in a scorer on a team that really needed a boost on offense was a poor idea to make.   Did it work out as well as hoped? No, but the playoff failure by New Jersey has had a lot more to do with other aspects of the team.  Had Lou not make the deal, those root problems would be there.

Now, whether or not I want Kovalchuk to re-sign is an entirely different question and worthy of it's own discussion.  But to finally put lie to my whole spiel, yes, the Kovalchuk trade was definitely worth it due to it's relatively low cost and that Kovalchuk has played and produced well as a Devil.  Were Lou to do it all over again, I'm confident he would have without question.

Let me know what you think about Kovalchuk and the trade in the comments.  If I made a mistake or you have a different perspective, please let me know there too.  Thanks for reading.

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I don’t think it was a bad move. Johnny Oduya was not playing up to his abilities and Bergors just disappeared. For Bergfors at least the change in scenery worked well for him. However, Lemaire does not appear to know how to make the most of Kovalchuk’s talent, on top of that I don’t think there is a center on the team talented enough to work with him.

Still I’d like to see him come back, we don’t have a player like him in the organization. Well, lets face it besides a handful of teams, not many do. Wanting him back and the reality of actually getting him back to very different things and I think he is going to command some serious cash.

I just hope Lou somehow improves the defense over the summer. I have been beating this drum for a while but I really don’t feel it is talented enough.

You're Next!

by thatguy011071 on Apr 25, 2010 6:24 AM EDT reply actions  

I failed to mention, I think Cormier will be a good player but he appears to be have a pretty bad rep as far as being a borderline as far as his hitting goes and that may not translate well at the NHL level.

First round draft choices? I think that will hurt more then losing Cormier. Although I think we have a pretty high second rounder due to this trade.

Just looked, they have the 38th pick over and the 55th over all.

You're Next!

by thatguy011071 on Apr 25, 2010 6:44 AM EDT reply actions  

My thoughts and what I have heard

I would love for him to resign and from what I have read Lou looks like he really wants him back and the report from Yahoo seemed to show the Kovy is open to all offers but he loved the Devils franchise. I mean anytime after you get traded the GM goes and picks you up in his personal private jet puts a great taste in your mouth right off the bat. Great first impression.

The only problem is I hope we give him only 6 or 7 million because I would prefer Parise in the future than Kovalchuk.
 
If we cannot resign him, TSN said St. Louis may be in the hunt. Any chance we get a player like Alex Pietrangelo (Barrie Colt – OHL, Defensemen of Tournament for the WJ) or would that be too much since he is going to be a free agent.

Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies, 2011

by joshd12 on Apr 25, 2010 7:00 AM EDT reply actions  

I don’t think this was a bad trade at all, and I certainly see no reason to complain about a player who put up a point-per-game during the time he spent with New Jersey this season. I hope he re-signs, as I’d love to see what he could do over a full training camp and season with the Devils.

And as for the assets NJ gave up, well, there are plenty of other young forwards in the Devils’ system right now — between Zharkov, Davis, Palmieri, Halischuck, Tedenby, and Josefsen, I don’t see them struggling to replace any production that they would have gotten from Bergfors and Cormier. And Parise and Zajac aren’t exactly old either, so as long as they stick around, even if Kovy walks, I don’t see the Devils as having hurt themselves badly with this trade.

On the backline, I always thought Oduya was a possibility to be traded. Even without getting Salmela back, I thought Oduya was going to become expendable sooner or later because the Devils also had Greene, Eckford, Corrente, Urbom, and Burlon looming behind him. Again, with that quantity of younger players, there shouldn’t be a problem replacing Oduya’s production going forward.

And with the draft pick, it’s not like the Devils gave up a top-5 or top-10 pick, and a nearly-guaranteed impact player. Picking towards the bottom of the first round, where this pick is going to be, is a rather inexact science.

by HockeyWeasel on Apr 25, 2010 8:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Does anyone know how much cap space the Devils would have if they didn’t re-sign Kovy? Right when they made the trade I thought it was a good idea because even if he turned out to just be a rental, they are shipping off some cap space, including Oduya’s somewhat bulky contract (i think it was 3-3.5 mil per yer if I remember?) So even if Kovalchuk is gone, Lou has given the team a bit more felxibility to make some trades or signings, and it’s all because of this trade. That’s why I liked it so much because it was not only a short term deal, but would work towards this upcoming offseason as well.

by DeboDevil on Apr 25, 2010 2:28 PM EDT reply actions  

This team had 6 million freed up before Oduya...

He was getting paid about 4 4.5 million. Bergfors had about a 800,000 range. So they will have about 11 million if they don’t sign anybody. It will go up 1 million if Nieds doesn’t sign too. So the Devils could spend about 7 million on Kovy. The best part of this would be signing Kovalchuk or signing a center and a defenseman. So it would be a win win for us.

"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."- Tiger Woods

by RolliePollieKovy on Apr 25, 2010 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

No.

Oduya was being paid 3.5 million from this season and for the next few seasons.

Per Cap Geek, the Devils have $15.94 million in cap space and only have 15 contracts for 2010-11. At a minimum, the Devils need a back up goaltender, two defensemen, and two more forwards just to fill out a roster – nevermind who it is that they sign and so far.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Apr 25, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

O ok

i thought he was getting close to about 4 million. My mistake.

"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."- Tiger Woods

by RolliePollieKovy on Apr 25, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

need a back up goaltender, two defensemen and two more forwards

Is there really anyone ready in Lowel or the Swedish elite league that is ready to move up or sign out of there.

My buddy showed me an article on Yahoo about a player from Norway who was one of the top guys in scoring in the Swedish Elite League and both the Devils and Leafs were trying to go after him

Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies, 2011

by joshd12 on Apr 25, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

He'll probably go to the Rangers

another disapointment over there

"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."- Tiger Woods

by RolliePollieKovy on Apr 25, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a Flyers fan let me say that if Kovalchuk does not re-sign with the Devils, their trade for him should be seen as a abject failure. You can parse statistics and derate the players the Devils traded all you like but that doesn’t change the fact that Kovalchuk was supposed to bring the Devils on a par with the Pens and the Caps. He was a elite player who would make NJ a elite team. Instead he was inconsequential when his team really needed him. Carachillo’s two goals were certainly more critical than Kovalchuk’s and I would say that he was outplayed by both Gagne and Briere. The “chat” Yahoo has with him today doesn’t sound optimistic for NJ either. I understand the desire to want to make the best of it but I don’t see much upside to the trade. He bought a hope to his team and their fans that is so far false.

by mmg816 on Apr 25, 2010 5:12 PM EDT reply actions  

The Devils did just fine against both those teams without Kovalchuk. Your interpretation of what he was supposed to bring is about as wrong as your spelling of Carcillo’s name.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain (?)

by elesias on Apr 25, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its is a shame that some of my fellow Devils fans can't be honest with themselves. Please prove me wrong

I much as I hate to say it, I agree with mmg816. He, or she, has pretty much stated what I have touched on in a previous post and I thank you for effectively making one aspect of my point for me.

Now in terms of what we gave up:
After a careful analysis of thier career statistics, I will concede and say that Oduya and Bergfors may not have been “game changing players” and for that reason they were expendable. However, when players are are traded, you have some fans who are happy with the trade and some fans who are not. I just happen to fall in the group of the fans who are not because i think both players have heart and drive even though thier numbers may not reflect that.

In Bergfors case, I think the verdict on him is a bit premature and, because of that, we will never know just how much and in what ways he could have contributed to this team in the years to come. I will keep an eye on him to see how he develops.

After analyzing his numbers, I am convinced however, that Patrice Cormier was a keeper. His statistics clearly show that, when he is in the game, he scores points. The also appears to be consistency in his play as well. In the art of trade and business however, you have to give some thing of value in order to get what you perceive to be something of equal value in return.

As I understand it, the first round pick that the NJ Devils gave Atlanta in the trade for Kovalchuk was 8th overall on a scale of 1-30. The way that the NHL Entry Draft is structured clearly shows that emphsis is placed on the perceived caliber of a player’s ability hence the designations of thier valued placement: “1st round; 2nd round; 3rd round” so forth and so on. A 1st round pick 8th overall is clearly too much for a player like Kovalchuk for the following reasons (This list is not exhaustive):

1.) There were a number of games that New Jersey won inspite of Kovalchuk. (Ex. vs San Jose:Kovalchuk gave up the turned over the puck which resulted in a goal for San Jose and gave the Sharks momentum in that game which almost compelled them to come back and win.
2.) There wer a number of games that New Jersey lost because of Kovalchuk. Ex.vs Chicago: Kovalchuk knocked Paul Martian’s stick out of his hands which lead to a game winning goal by Chicago.)
Thus: The value of some of Kovalchuk’s points are offset by the mistakes that Kovy made in the two games that I mentioned and the other gaes that i did not.
3.) Martian Brodeur is coming to the end of his rein. Soon we will need another goalie (preferably an elite one) I agree with the following observation made by Mike Burse when he states in his article:

In the Kovalchuk trade New Jersey traded away their 2010 first round draft pick so they will likely miss out on the best goaltenders in this year’s draft (American Jack Campbell and Canadian Chet Pickard).

4.) Kovalchuk has given subtle hint that he is not staying with the Devils, therefore making the length of service for the Devils roughly 2.1/3 – 2.2/3 Months. This hardly seems like a deal to me. Its like going to the dealership to buy a car and walking away with the shell minus everything else.

I want to add more but for the sake of time and space, I will end my argument here and read all further responses but I will advance my argument further upon request.

Creed: (Play well-Win=Praise) (Play Well-Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy-Win=Criticism) (Play lousy-Lose/Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)

by LoNJDTechnology on Apr 25, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I want to add more but for the sake of time and space, I will end my argument here and read all further responses but I will advance my argument further upon request.

I request that you back up this wonderful piece of work with some actual facts. Specifically:

After analyzing his numbers, I am convinced however, that Patrice Cormier was a keeper. His statistics clearly show that, when he is in the game, he scores points. The also appears to be consistency in his play as well.

Cormier was not a big scorer in junior and there’s no reason to believe that he ever would be.

As I understand it, the first round pick that the NJ Devils gave Atlanta in the trade for Kovalchuk was 8th overall on a scale of 1-30. The way that the NHL Entry Draft is structured clearly shows that emphsis is placed on the perceived caliber of a player’s ability hence the designations of thier valued placement: "1st round; 2nd round; 3rd round" so forth and so on. A 1st round pick 8th overall is clearly too much for a player like Kovalchuk for the following reasons (This list is not exhaustive):

The Devils didn’t finish 22nd in the league so they didn’t give up the 8th overall pick in the NHL Draft. This and your subsequent list is faulty.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Apr 25, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention the overlooking of some of Cormier’s, or at least his elbow’s, antics.

Lou is a character guy first and foremost. I read the trading of Cormier as a condemnation of his behavior.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain (?)

by elesias on Apr 25, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

:-) Ok John, As Per Your Request...

If I have misunderstood any of the information list below: I am open to correction, however, I expect you to list all supporting facts to support your argument as well. (Which you always do)

Patrice Cormier: Career Statistics

Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
2004-05 Moncton Gagnon Beavers MJAHL 31 4 8 12 35
2005-06 Moncton Gagnon Beavers MJAHL 43 21 27 48 41
2006-07 Rimouski Oceanic QMJHL 53 11 10 21 73 - - - -
2007-08 Rimouski Oceanic QMJHL 51 18 23 41 84 9 4 5 9 10
2008-09 Rimouski Oceanic QMJHL 54 23 28 51 118 13 4 6 10 30
2009-10 Rimouski Oceanic QMJHL 28 11 15 26 57
2009-10 Rouyn-Noranda Huskies QMJHL 3 0 5 5 7
2009-10 Chicago Wolves AHL 2 0 0 0 0 0

These are the numbers that the I have used. As you can see Cormier’s perfomance improved considerably in the 05-06 year and continued to improve for some time. The only years in which performance seemed to be lacking are 04-05 as well as, 09-10. Based on my research this drop in performance can be attributed to suspension and injury; both of which; can be overcome. Not lack of talent. Yes Kovalchuk may have scored more points during his career but this is due in large part to the fact that, on average, Kovy plays in more games. If the circumstances were the same for Cormier, I have no doubt that Cormier Could match Kovy’s numbers. Statistical Source: HockeyDB

If I may, Cormier may be a vicious player (I.e. Elbows) however, the Devils will need a force who will put the fear of God in opposing teams. Lord knows I love the Devils, hence my handle Lo (Love) NJDTechnology, but the Flyers punked them in the playoffs, smacked them up, hacked them up and bitch-slapped them up. They got in the Devils heads man. You telling me that if you know that a player with Cormier’s reputation is waiting in the wings, you won’t think twice before you delivered a dirty hit, or harassed the team star?

With that said: The second round draft pick swap, Cormier, Oduya and Bergfors was enough.

Round one
Pick # Player Nationality Position NHL team Team from League from
1 Edmonton Oilers
2 Boston Bruins (from Toronto)
3 Florida Panthers
4 Columbus Blue Jackets
5 New York Islanders
6 Tampa Bay Lightning
7 Carolina Hurricanes
8 Atlanta Thrashers
9 Minnesota Wild
10 New York Rangers
11 Dallas Stars
12 Anaheim Ducks
13 Phoenix Coyotes (from Calgary)
14 St. Louis Blues
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30

The New Jersey Devils’ first-round pick will go to the Atlanta Thrashers as the result of a trade on February 4, 2010 that sent Ilya Kovalchuk, Anssi Salmela and a second-round pick in 2010 to New Jersey in exchange for Niclas Bergfors, Johnny Oduya, Patrice Cormier, a second-round pick in 2010 and this pick. Informational Source: NHL 2010 Entry Draft Wikipedia

Creed: (Play well-Win=Praise) (Play Well-Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy-Win=Criticism) (Play lousy-Lose/Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)

by LoNJDTechnology on Apr 25, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

That pick is the Thrashers pick. They’ll have their pick which is the 8th and ours which will be whatever.

And Cormier is over-rated. Looking at stats doesn’t tell the story. He looked awful in the WJC this year.

by C.J. Richey on Apr 25, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Agree With Your Assertion That...

Statistic do not give a wholelistic view of why games turn out they way that they do and why players are viewed as bad, average, good, elite. Those are titles of personal choice.

Creed: (Play well-Win=Praise) (Play Well-Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy-Win=Criticism) (Play lousy-Lose/Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)

by LoNJDTechnology on Apr 25, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn’t the rule of thumb that production in the minors vs. in the pros is about 2:1?

Everything I read about the guy had him projected as ~20 goal scorer fit for a 3rd line.

Also, I disagree strongly with your contention that the Flyers were overly physical, or that the Devils couldn’t handle it. They struggled with their size, sure, but not their physicality. And having a guy known for throwing dirty elbows (firstly, wouldn’t happen under Lou) but wouldn’t have changed anything. The Flyers have a guy with that exact same reputation, but regardless, stuff like that goes WAY down during the playoffs.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain (?)

by elesias on Apr 25, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

As you can see Cormier’s perfomance improved considerably in the 05-06 year and continued to improve for some time. The only years in which performance seemed to be lacking are 04-05 as well as, 09-10. Based on my research this drop in performance can be attributed to suspension and injury; both of which; can be overcome. Not lack of talent. Yes Kovalchuk may have scored more points during his career but this is due in large part to the fact that, on average, Kovy plays in more games. If the circumstances were the same for Cormier, I have no doubt that Cormier Could match Kovy’s numbers. Statistical Source: HockeyDB

My first response: WHAT?

My second response to this: You would be wise to check this analysis Gabe Desjardins did in projecting a prospect’s stats from various leagues to the NHL. Given that Cormier isn’t even especially productive at the QMJHL level (I’ll do wonder whether he is he necessarily used in a scoring line), the only way he’s getting close to Kovalchuk’s numbers – which will increase as he’s going to keep playing hockey – is by playing himself a lot on NHL10.

Second: Again, the 8th overall pick is the one the Thrashers got for their final position in the NHL. The Devils’ first that they have will come much later.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Apr 25, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok John, i will do that.

Creed: (Play well-Win=Praise) (Play Well-Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy-Win=Criticism) (Play lousy-Lose/Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)

by LoNJDTechnology on Apr 26, 2010 9:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

So wait...

You would rather have about 3.5 million in Oduya that was underachieving just because he had character? And Bergfors who seemed trapped in Lemaire’s system? You don’t know with Cormier. The pick isn’t gonna be like a Seguin or Hall or even Fowler. We have a good oppurtunity to draft Conz.

"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."- Tiger Woods

by RolliePollieKovy on Apr 25, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correction: At # 2 the game was against the Boston Bruins

Creed: (Play well+Win=Praise) (Play Well+Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy+Win=Criticism) (Play lousy+Lose & Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)

by LoNJDTechnology on Apr 27, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a Flyers fan let me say that if Kovalchuk does not re-sign with the Devils, their trade for him should be seen as a abject failure.

Funny, I wrote an entire post stating how it wasn’t but let’s see the reasoning anyway.

You can parse statistics and derate the players the Devils traded all you like but that doesn’t change the fact that Kovalchuk was supposed to bring the Devils on a par with the Pens and the Caps. He was a elite player who would make NJ a elite team

The Devils won the Atlantic Division. Ahead of the Penguins. They finished with the best record in the East behind Washington, who performed so magnificently such that no one was touching them.

Instead he was inconsequential when his team really needed him.

He led the Devils in playoff scoring. Definitely not inconsequential, assuming you know what that word means.

Carachillo’s two goals were certainly more critical than Kovalchuk’s and I would say that he was outplayed by both Gagne and Briere.

The only critical goal Carcillo scored was the OT winner in Game 3 and that was more due to him being at the right place and at the right time than anything else. You probably could have scored that goal if you were there.

Funny that you bring up Gagne and Briere. Because Kovalchuk has 2 goals and 4 assists on 19 shots in 5 games. It’s a total larger than Briere’s 2 goals and 3 assists on 12 shots and Gagne’s 2 assists on 8 shots in 4 games.

So by what evidence can one say that Gagne OR Briere did better than Kovalchuk?

The "chat" Yahoo has with him today doesn’t sound optimistic for NJ either.

How about a link to the actual “chat” instead of assuming those who have the misfortune of reading this comment knows what you’re talking about?

I understand the desire to want to make the best of it but I don’t see much upside to the trade.

The upside of the trade? What do you call this entire post that you commented on?

He bought a hope to his team and their fans that is so far false.

What hope did Kovalchuk buy?

On second thought, don’t answer these questions, I don’t think I’m so interested in another fact-less comment.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Apr 25, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carcillo

His goal in Game 4 sealed the deal on the series IMHO.

I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.

by Cherno77 on Apr 25, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will reply

The Yahoo link is http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Chatting-with-Ilya-Kovalchuk-about-his-future-wi?urn=nhl,236440 It appeared in Puck Daddy’s blog at Yahoo Sports on Sat. It was posted by Dmitry Chesnokov.
You’re right that almost anyone could have scored Carcillo’s goal in OT but it was Carcillo who did score it, but I disagree that Carcillo’s goal in game 4 was insignificat. The Devils were still within a breakaway or a good shift or even a lucky bounce of tying the game.
As far as Kovalchuk being outplayed by Gagne, Briere, and Claude Giroux too, I am going not by absolute statistics but by how that those players seemed to have chance after chance. The fact that they did not have more points is to Brodeur’s credit not Kovalchuk’s.
And Kovalchuk was ultimately inconsequential. A empty net goal is what it is and his goal in game 4 would have been critical if he or someone else had followed it up but oh well.
That gets to my point, Kovalchuk is supposed to be a superstar. Lamoriello was willing to bring in a player who did not fit his system and would not, at least for the time he was guaranteed to have him, because his offensive skill was worth it for the hope of a Cup. Talking about the regular season is meaningless now. Does having the 2nd seed as opposed to the 4th really seem important now. The truth is, he could have had zero points and it wouldn’t have changed a thing. That’s why I say he was inconsequential, he was supposed to make a difference, and he didn’t.
This is why I say he b®ought False Hope and the trade is, as it stands, a failure. You’ve been arguing that the players he were traded for are basically stiffs and you may be right. I don’t think it matters. It’s all about Kovalchuk.
As a Flyers fan I freely admit that the Lindros trade was the worst they ever made and not because they lost Forsberg and Ricci. It was the False Hope he brought to the Flyers fans and organization. What we got was a MVP, some highlight films, and eventually a guy who led his team into collapses in the ‘97 Finals and in 2000 against, well you know, and ultimately a poisoned clubhouse (THEY QUIT ON ROGER NEILSEN!) and acrimony that made national news. It’s not what we expected. We expected him to lead us to a Stanley Cup or three and he never really got close. That’s why Lindros was a failure and why, on a much less grandiose scale, so is Kovalchuk and until he does re-sign with NJ, I believe that all attempts, including your OP, is a rationalization.

by mmg816 on Apr 26, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I meant to say in my last line “that all attempts to say otherwise”
I don’t know how that symbol got in there. It’s not what I wanted.

by mmg816 on Apr 26, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you have your opinions based on a hatred of the Devils and five games in which the entire team underperformed, and the rest of us know better.

Have a nice day!

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain (?)

by elesias on Apr 26, 2010 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, I don’t hate the Devils particularly. I certainly don’t like them and enjoyed seeing them lose but I actually sympathize for their fans right now. I know how it feels and sooner or later one of my teams will let me down again. That’s life.
I do agree that there is plenty of blame to be spread around the team in front of Brodeur. They looked mediocre for long stretches and I think they were clueless when the expected script of Boucher’s quick fold didn’t happen, however, this OP was that renting? Kovalchuk still made sense based on what they traded to get him. I disagree because the expectations he brought with him overshadow the results he actually gave them.

by mmg816 on Apr 26, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just to clarify a couple of things. I grew up in South Jersey but live in Monmouth County, NJ nowadays. I watched the games on MSG and I think I’m sympathizing for people whho might be my neighbors. Even though Root Root For The Home Team means the Phillies, Flyers, and Eagles for me, if my son, 4 on Wed., decides the home team for him is the Devils, the Giants, or Heaven Forfend!, the Yankees I will do my best to make it as good as I can for him.
Besides, I thought my hatred for Lindros and those teams he misled were much obviously visceral then whatever I think of the Devs.

by mmg816 on Apr 26, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree because the expectations he brought with him overshadow the results he actually gave them.

That’s called hindsight. Everyone has the benefit of it, but, unfortunately, only ever after the fact.

When the trade was made, it was a good gamble with the potential for a high reward at little to no risk. The team as a whole crapped out, and if anything, one could say Kovalchuk was one of the few guys to actually show up in the playoffs – though you disagree on that because of how you, a Flyers fan, feels several Flyers outperformed him. Not based on any actual facts, mind you, just on how it “seems.” You’ll forgive me if it “seems” like you’re just being a homer.

In the end, it didn’t work out because the team flopped, but the deal was still not a failure, even in hindsight, because the trade-off was for, essentially, spare parts that can be easily replaced (and Oduya was even a great move because his was shedding the team of a bad contract. It wouldn’t have been bad if he’d lived up to it, but he wasn’t).

Your interpretation of what Kovalchuk was supposed to bring to the Devils remains flawed, as does your contention that he somehow brought some sort of false expectations to fans.

This team was, through the first half of the year, one of, if not the, best team in the league. They spent weeks atop the conference and even the league, and dominated the East’s other top teams. And that was long before Kovalchuk even entered the picture. By the time he was traded for the team had already fallen into a funk. He was never meant to be a savior, he was always only ever meant to be an added threat to what everyone knew was already a good team. To help take some pressure off of Parise and to help on the PP.

The optimism for this team was high, deservedly so by how they showed they could play, but tempered by the late season swoon. I frequent these and other boards pretty often and don’t recall a single person even suggesting that the addition of Kovalchuk was going to suddenly turn things around or that he was some sort of panacea for the teams ills. On the contrary, most people worried about how, or if, he’d fit in.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain (?)

by elesias on Apr 26, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

And this is what we call a proper response. I do declare you’ve been told, mmg816.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Apr 26, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t have a problem with hindsight. Ultimately everything gets judged in hindsight and, in spite of the saying, it isn’t 20/20 or we wouldn’t be having this or any other historical or current events discussion.
I’m not going to pretend that I’m smart enough to be a GM or even a hockey blogger but I do remember the stories were at the time of the trade tthat there were stories comparing Kovalchuk against Crosby and Ovechkin, and that the Devils were going for a Cup run. I’m barely computer literate so you can find your own links. In spite of the Devils troubles in the late season was there anyone predicting that the Flyers could last 7 games? Not that I remember seeing on Yahoo Sports or NHL.com
I can’t argue that I watched the games as a fan but so did you. The only Devils that I believe who were truly mentally prepared for the task at hand, and not the next series, were Brodeur and Zubrius. If Kovalchuk were truly ready, and truly a superstar his statistics should have been more impressive than they were. Maybe with a game winning goal, even.
 Finally I found you calling me a homer to be ironic because this entire thread comes across to me as a attempt to spin the trade in the best possible light.

by mmg816 on Apr 26, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, because some random people compared Kovalchuk to Crosby or Ovechkin, that means his not scoring 100 goals in the playoffs makes any trade for him an “abject failure”?

That does seem to be your argument here.

Yes the team was going for a Cup run. They were in the playoffs and showed that they had the ability. They then proceeded to completely throw their chance away. That’s not on Kovalchuk (and I think we already agreed on that point) so I don’t know why you keep coming back to it. One man cannot a game win. It was a team failure, so singling out one person, particularly one who produced the most, is not just unfair, it’s ridiculous.

As to the homer bit, the “spin” was just an extension of the conversation that took place back when the trade happened. Get over your computer illiteracy and find the archives. Look around the interwebs at what some other people said then and now.

Truth is, this article was more a response by John to a vocal minority of Devils fans and the knee-jerk media who love nothing more than an easy story that bashes the Devils than any attempt to console ourselves. We know what the deal is, and did at the time. It was discussed very thoroughly. And, yes, basing an opinion on the performance of a player or players in DIRECT OPPOSITION to the facts is the very definition of being a homer.

And, I might add, joining a site as a Flyers fan and then spending more time posting to a Devils forum comes close to the very definition of internet troll.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain (?)

by elesias on Apr 26, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nothing you’ve said or anyone else or what I saw makes me think that I said particularly outrageously wrong and I think contrarian is a more accurate expression of how I’ve conducted myself as a guest. I think that, if anything, calling this a spin was probably more wrong, morally and factually, than anything I said about Kovalchuk. Also, I am working on my computer literacy but not for this or anything particularly like this, so thanks for the suggestion, but no thanks.

by mmg816 on Apr 26, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not saying you were trolling, but you’re awfully close to the line.

That a Flyers fan comes to a Devils site mere days after their playoff series and while wounds are still fresh and insinuates that the fans are trying to spin the Kovalchuk trade to make themselves feel better is not the best way to lead off if you’re looking to make friends.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain (?)

by elesias on Apr 26, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ouch. I just wanted to put my two cents in. I got started on this late at night after a long weekend with the little fellow so maybe I was feeling a little rammy. I certainly don’t plan on beating on Lemaire on his way out the door. I thank the man for his 40 great years in hockey.
On a brighter thought if Halek has another game like tonight everyone else will forget the Devils and the Flyers can forget about the Caps.

by mmg816 on Apr 26, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ilya is just so unique

The problem that the Devils had with him was that his playing style is so unique. None of our forwards were used to playing with anyone like that, and it was obvious. The passes were off, timing was bad, and people could never figure out what Kovy was going to do.

That’s the trouble when you don’t have time to practice with a team for an extended period of time. If we resign him and the team gets a full training camp and season with him I think the chemistry would be much better. But, to me, the biggest issue this postseason was defense. We need to give the young guys a chance on the blueline this year because guys like Colin White are killing us.

by jjablon8 on Apr 25, 2010 5:34 PM EDT reply actions  

The Kolvalchuk trade was a nice effort by Lou to try to prolong and salvage the season. However without a true center and playing in Lamaire “system” he did quite well in the short time he played here. It would be a waste of money to re-sign Kovalchuk without a true center to work along side with him and Elias. Devils all year were very week down the middle and our first priority should be to use the cap space available to get a second line or playmaking center a TOUGH defenseman. White is nice for the third pairing but a newer version of him is needed to help our soft Defense. Martin is not worth the money that he will be asking to play for us next year and his playing time can be cover from within. Zubrus should play next year with Parise & Zajac so a third line center is also needed to play with Clarkson & Rolston since he has to come back. Pelley can take over the fourth line along new blood from Lowell. Pando should be promoted to a player coach in Lowell and be close to his home in Mass. Lastly it really does not matter what Lou does in the off-season since the current coaching staff is returning and who has any confidence that they can adjust and coach the talent on this Devils Team with the changes in rules in the “NEW” NHL.

by Old Puck 1 on Apr 25, 2010 5:34 PM EDT reply actions  

This is a business

The Devils took a risk for this year and it didn’t work. Ilya Kovalchuk was supposed to be the player that brought the Devils over the top and it didn’t happen for many reasons. Regardless, this move was not a failure, even if Kovy moves on to a different team. This is how the Devils are operated – they play to win now and are willing to take risks to get the job done. Kovalchuk was the Devils most talented player in the playoffs. Unfortunately, he was expected to learn the Devils system in 2 months and just make things work like magic. Let’s look at someone else who looked great in the series for the Devils. I’m talking about Danius Zubrus. He struggled for a few years, and fans often criticized him for being overpaid, getting 3.4 mil a year I think. No one is complaining about him now. He got better and better as the season has progressed. You can argue that its Lemaire’s style and whatever. Nonsense. Zubrus finally learned the system and began to thrive in it. It took 3 years. And you are expecting Kovalchuk to come in and just get it in 2 months? Really?

Clearly things did not go well for Kovalchuk and the Devils this year. But there are all sorts of reasons that people can point fingers at. Lemaire never set lines, Langenbrunner disappeared, Parise Zajac and Elias were ineffective etc. I think that what ended up happening was that the entire team began to rely on Kovalchuk for everything and stopped playing the way they could on their own. If the Devils never made this trade, they probably would have been better off against the Flyers. Why? Because they would have remained a 2-3 line balanced offense. To me, what we saw in the playoffs was a one man show. The entire team expected Kovalchuk to do just about everything. And even though Kovalchuk was largely shut down by the Flyers, the rest of the offense provided no relief. Players known for their production became mediocre. The Flyers shut down a few players and the rest of the team looked so weak. I can sum it up in one question: When did the New Jersey Devils become the New York Rangers?

Yes, those Rangers. The team that relies entirely on their star scorer and star goalie because the rest of the team blows. Since when are the Devils doing the same!

Now, in terms of Kovy’s future, I bet Kovalchuk would continue to become more effective on the Devils if he went through training camp and developed some chemistry with some linemates. But remember when Lou broke up the A-line? He did it because the players began to rely on one line for everything, which is not Devils hockey. This is really the only precedent I can think of that leads me to believe the Devils will not attempt to resign him if Kovalchuk is willing to accept a contract that is reasonable. The Devils will not offer him the same kind of money Atlanta offered, as Lou does not give players more than they deserve. If Ilya is looking for the league max for so many years, he should talk to Glen Sather.

by NJPenguins08 on Apr 25, 2010 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I think that what ended up happening was that the entire team began to rely on Kovalchuk for everything and stopped playing the way they could on their own. If the Devils never made this trade, they probably would have been better off against the Flyers. Why? Because they would have remained a 2-3 line balanced offense. To me, what we saw in the playoffs was a one man show. The entire team expected Kovalchuk to do just about everything. And even though Kovalchuk was largely shut down by the Flyers, the rest of the offense provided no relief. Players known for their production became mediocre.

It’s a nice little narrative.

But facts? Where are the facts that would back this up?

I’ll give you a hint: You may want to question the assertion that Lemaire didn’t change up the lines before Kovalchuk was traded to New Jersey. I’m pretty confident that the lines were in flux well before Kovalchuk put on a Devils jersey, if only as needed due to injury on the roster.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Apr 25, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

John

I’m not sure what you want me to back up with stats. The fact that the Devils scored nine goals in 5 games tells me that there offense was shut down pretty well, especially since they had 4 goals in the four games that they lost and had 1 goal in the last two that were must wins. That tells me that they were shut down offensively. Including in those 9 goals are a goal by Colin White, Andy Greene, and 2 goals by Brian Rolston. These are not the players the Devils relied on this season. Now look at average ice time per game. This is the first time that the Devils had an offensive player lead the team in ice time since NHL.com started keeping stats online in the 97-98 season. In most seasons, there were actually 3 or more defenseman playing more each game than any one offensive player. To me that’s a sign that the Devils relied a lot on a single offensive player. I’m not sure what exactly you are calling into question though. Are you trying to tell me that the Devils offense looked good and were effective? In my opinion at least, they lacked any chemistry whatsoever. They had 3 even strength goals in 5 games! I guess I’m missing your point.

And yes the Devils lines were switched around all the time all season because of injuries, but the Devils entered the postseason without any significant injuries. Sure, Paul Martin never looked the same after his return, but every player was available. Kovalchuk tried to set up players but the timing always seemed off to me. I’m not sure how to support that with fact. I haven’t seen any statistics on passing percentages but I would be they are quite low on the Devils, and for Kovalchuk in particular. I guess that is what I was referring to in what you outlined in my “narrative”.

by NJPenguins08 on Apr 26, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that the Devils scored nine goals in 5 games tells me that there offense was shut down pretty well, especially since they had 4 goals in the four games that they lost and had 1 goal in the last two that were must wins. That tells me that they were shut down offensively. Including in those 9 goals are a goal by Colin White, Andy Greene, and 2 goals by Brian Rolston. These are not the players the Devils relied on this season.

Oh, I agree with all of this – my problem was the assertion that the Devils relied on Kovalchuk too much. Though, I’m a bit confused if the Devils remained a “balanced offense of 2-3 lines,” wouldn’t Rolston be a part of that?

. Now look at average ice time per game. This is the first time that the Devils had an offensive player lead the team in ice time since NHL.com started keeping stats online in the 97-98 season. In most seasons, there were actually 3 or more defenseman playing more each game than any one offensive player. To me that’s a sign that the Devils relied a lot on a single offensive player. I’m not sure what exactly you are calling into question though. Are you trying to tell me that the Devils offense looked good and were effective? In my opinion at least, they lacked any chemistry whatsoever. They had 3 even strength goals in 5 games! I guess I’m missing your point.

I’m calling into question the growing notion that Kovalchuk’s arrival screwed up chemistry that didn’t happen and that his arrival led to the Devils relying on him more than anything else.

Let’s start with ice-time. This is demonstrably false. The leader in ATOI/G in this season is Andy Greene with 23:31. Kovalchuk only led in ice-time in the playoffs. While Kovalchuk played a lot, a big reason why his ice time is so high is because he played so much on the power play, 8:30 per game. Since there were a lot of power plays, his minutes skyrocketed. All that really proves is that Lemaire wanted Kovalchuk involved on the PP.

Whether he was relied on is another question entirely. He took many shot attempts, probably more than rest of the team; but this isn’t to say the plan was “Get Ilya the puck.” Nor does it mean that without Kovalchuk the Devils would have performed better. If anything, given how the offense was, as you said, shut down, so, Kovalchuk was one of the few Devils to take some initiative and do something.

And yes the Devils lines were switched around all the time all season because of injuries, but the Devils entered the postseason without any significant injuries. Sure, Paul Martin never looked the same after his return, but every player was available.

So if the Devils lines were switched around all the time both before Kovalchuk and afterwards, then I suppose Kovalchuk’s arrival didn’t really mess with anything that didn’t exist?

Also: Martin never looked the same? Exactly how?

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Apr 27, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, NJPenguins08. This is a business. Lou only takes calculated risks, and this was one of them. Although the results weren’t there, I can’t say this was a bad call by Lou at all. The Devils gave up: 1) Oduya, who got slightly overpaid compared to his talent because he worked his butt off during a contract year last year. Oduya was an average defenseman this year with NJ. Especially leading up to the trade, he was playing below-average. 2) Bergfors, a player I liked but let’s be honest here: if this was the main chip of the trade for NJ, who wouldn’t be willing to give him up? I liked Bergfors but there is no saying where his talent will lead him. He was as big of a question mark as any other rookie. And when he was traded, he hit a hugewall. Lemaire constantly demoted him down the lines, if you recall. Once again, I liked Bergfors but he was expendable for a player in comparison to the talent and calibur of Kovalchuk. 3) Cormier, who was developing a nasty reputation that precedes his talents. Lou runs a disciplined club. Cormier already lacks discpline, and developed a nasty knack of blindsiding opposition with his elbows. His projection of talent is a two-way forward, which New Jersey always seems to have plenty of anyway. 4) A first round pick. Yes, this pick could have been mighty helpful. Yes, this does mortgage away our potential youth. But if the Devils faced anybody else besides Philly in the first round, we most likely would have made it in to the 2nd round. And if that occured, this pick would have lost its value. Again, this is a calculated risk and a bet Lou was willing to make, but considering the amount of talent we have in the minors right now, I would claim it was justified.

"We aim above the mark to hit the mark." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

by Tim G on Apr 25, 2010 7:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Looking at it One dimensionally

Kovy was failure. The purpose of getting Kovy was to win the Stanley Cup, or at least advance a round. Looking at it just that way, it was failure.

Saying that, even if we didn’t get Kovy and didn’t advance a round, the season would have been a failure.

Sadly, that’s the way its going to be seen, justly or not.

Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.

When there's a WILL there's a WAY

by Willgfass on Apr 25, 2010 9:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Understandable. I agree the 09-10 season was a failure; just that the trade didn’t make it a failure or that it was a poor idea to trade for him.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Apr 25, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think the trade was a failure because I don’t think we lost much. Oduya was over-paid and Bergfors probably would have been good but he is replaceable. I never liked Cormier even before he tried to take someone’s head off. If we didn’t make the trade we still would have had the same result.

I really really hope we don’t re-sign Kovy though. I don’t think signing Kovy will help this team we have to many holes that wasting all our cap on one player would be dumb.

I think trading Kovy’s rights would be our best option. Hopefully we can do that.

by C.J. Richey on Apr 25, 2010 9:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Wouldn’t we have to sign him in order to be able to trade him…?

by undersuspicion426 on Apr 25, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can trade his negotiating rights before July 1st. We wouldn’t get much, last year the Flames traded the rights to Jay Bouwmeester to Florida for the rights to Jordan Leopold and a 3rd round pick. So I’m hoping we can do something like that.

by C.J. Richey on Apr 26, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Minor nitpick

…last year the Flames Panthers traded the rights to Jay Bouwmeester to Florida Calgary…

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain (?)

by elesias on Apr 26, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whoops, thanks for correcting that.

by C.J. Richey on Apr 26, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just throwing it out there

After reading the Falconer’s take on the Kovalchuk trade over at Bird Watcher’s Anonymous I got to wondering and just did a quick breakdown of goals for. It’s not the be-all set of numbers, of course, and the 7-1 trashing of the Isles at the end of the season skew the numbers a bit, but it’s certainly worth noting that:

Devils Goals For Average per game for the season was 2.70
The 55 games before the Kovalchuk trade it was 2.65
The 27 games after the Kovalchuk trade it was 2.81

In my mind that goes to show that even if he wasn’t showing up on the scoreboard, he was still contributing.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain (?)

by elesias on Apr 27, 2010 11:49 AM EDT reply actions  

From a Thrashers fan

I totally agree with John’s article. I do have to tell you though that I am in the minority among Thrashers fans. Whether this is something all fans are guilty of or not, I can’t say, but our fans have very short memories. Our fans were crowing about how we ripped off Pittsburgh in the Hossa trade, but I don’t think anyone now would make that claim.

Bergfors can help us and he played fine here, but yes, he is not a future All Star. 30 goals most likely will be the most he can deliver. He’ll likely fit into that solid but not spectacular 20-25 goals a season role that many NHL forwards already do. Tedenby may end up being as good or better.

Oduya played over his head with us, but I felt that he was weak offensively and his numbers are a bit deceptively in his favor after the trade. He really was not as much of an offensive force as you might conclude based on his Thrashers numbers. Oduya’s contract escalates, so if his offense continues to drop as I suspect it will, he is going to have to really get the job done defensively if he turns into the increasingly expensive stay at home d-man I see him becoming.

Cormier has had completely unreasonable expectations placed on him by everyone in Atlanta from the fans up to the new and old GMs. He can’t possibly live up to them. I smell a gigantic bust here and I think in 2 or 3 years all of you will be laughing that anyone in Atlanta actually thought he’d be good.

Our record under former GM Waddell has been poor when drafting later in the 1st round. I’m hoping Dudley will change that, but still, we won’t get anyone ready to play in the NHL next season.

I think that for personal reasons there are only a very few NHL teams that Kovy will sign with and the Devils are one of them. I do think that even if he is willing to re-sign that he will refuse to do so until after free agency starts, so I expect him to reject any offer Lou makes him. That may lead to a situation where Lou pulls his offer off the table and wishes him well on his next team. I don’t know. But a lot of teams would do that. If Lou is willing to accept this and continue negotiations after free agency starts, he still may re-sign in NJ. But I can give you total assurance that he will NEVER re-sign with Atlanta. He won’t get another offer from our owners and you can take that to the bank.

by Zontar on Apr 28, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

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