Lou Lamoriello, the hypocrite?

by DownGoesAvery on Jun 8, 2010 7:39 PM EDT

Forgive me for criticizing Lou Lamoriello, the man that I have referred to as a businessman and a sports icon, but in times like this, I must. This all started when Lou traded Johnny Oduya for Kovalchuk. Our team clearly could not afford to lose a guy like Oduya, and it showed in the stretch and playoffs. Now it looks like our star player will be leaving too. Bergfors might turn out to be a solid, 25 goal scorer too, plus we lost our 1st round pick in a strong draft year. Great attempt to get Kovy, but a bad time to do it. Sometimes emotions get the best of you, right?!

Now, the long-term effect of my criticism has to do with Lou's attitude on coaching. Lou believes in building from within, as we have drafted Parise, Zajac, Corrente, Tedenby and Josefson in the first round recently, and none of those picks have come in the top 15. Letting key players go has not hurt us severely, although we have not won a championship or even made the conference finals since the departure of Niedermayer/Stevens/Daneyko, etc. As a matter of fact, we have not been that far since we won it all in 2003, the longest drought in Devils history (1982-1988 being the second-longest).

When it comes to coaches, however, Lamoriello seems reluctant to build from within. All three Stanley Cup championship teams had members of the Montreal Canadiens (either as a player, coach, manager, or two of them) as the head coach: Jacques Lemaire, Larry Robinson and Pat Burns. In addition, Canadiens goaltending draft pick Kevin Constantine and ex-Habs coach Claude Julien have also been around the block with our organization, making five total head coaches out of the Montreal organization. More recently, Lemaire returned and Brent Sutter had a stint here. The bottom line is, Lou isn't willing to give a former Devil the opportunity the chance to develop as head coach in the NHL.

John MacLean was the assistant coach at the NHL level with New Jersey, and then moved to AHL Lowell at the beginning of the 2009-10 season. In my mind, he is ready to take the next step. MacLean would institute the offensive system needed yet pay attention to defense so that Lou would not have a heart attack watching Devils games. MacLean was obviously a long-time Devil, and fans (myself included) would love to see him take over behind the bench, with Stevens and Daneyko as head alternates. That would complete a home-grown coaching staff, with Terreri coaching the goaltenders.

Another very logical choice would be the man that was brought in as the assistant coach in Montreal under Michel Therrein, but served most of his time in Montreal under Guy Carbonneau and last season under Jacques Martin. That would be former Devils' first round pick Kirk Muller. Muller has the potential to be a more offensive coach, but then again, he was the assistant under the defensive Martin in 2009-10. Although Muller has never had a head coaching stint behind the OUA, he would be my selection right now, and he has been throughout the process thus far. MacLean would obviously fit the team, and I think we would all love to see him behind the bench, but Muller would be the best fit for our team right now.

So now, Lou, it is up to him to give someone a chance, like he gives his players a chance, to develop into a head coach in New Jersey for a long time. He can try Muller or MacLean out (it looks like Guy Boucher is Tampa Bay's new coach), or go with Keenan or Hitchcock, and the team will remain the same for the new two years and then we will be in the same position we are in right now. It is up to Lou. Is he ready?

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Hypocrite? I’ve read through this twice, maybe I missed it, but how? Because he immediately didn’t give the coaching job to MacLean, who’s had exactly one (1) season of being a head coach at the professional level? If he’s been groomed within the organization, how in the world would he come out and do something completely different?

Our team clearly could not afford to lose a guy like Oduya, and it showed in the stretch and playoffs.

I’m sorry but what? How in the world did it show? Oduya wasn’t playing well at all here this past season.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Jun 8, 2010 7:50 PM EDT reply actions

Yes. I was reading that and it caught my eye. He looked like the old Oduya. He wasn’t doing anything offensive that we thought he would do, Bergfors was the hit in this deal, Cormier will be a solid 3rd line center, and the draft pick would likely be a B, B- player. We did get Salmela to you know. He was compared to Rafalski when we signed him. Everyone well not everyone was jumping for joy when we acquired Kovy. Thinking “this will finally be the year!!!!” Now at the end of the year, since we didn’t get past the 1st round again people start to look at and say “How can Lou do this???!!!!” It may have not worked this year but if he signs him, it can happen next year or in a couple years. For coaching it is Muller and MacLean or Hitchcock and Keenan????
First of all, those are the worst coaches to jump around from. You go from offensive coaches to coaches that are known for defense. A lot of defense.

"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."- Tiger Woods

by RolliePollieKovy on Jun 8, 2010 7:57 PM EDT reply actions

My point exactly.

It hurt the team. But the same could be said for Martin, right? He wasn’t 100% when he got back. He was certainly…good, but Oduya was the type of defenseman (good skater, handles the puck) that we could have used in the playoffs. Then again, hindsight is 20/20…………..

Yankees in baseball, Giants in football and Devils in hockey. It's that simple. I have no off-season.

by DownGoesAvery on Jun 8, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions

What? He was 100% when he got back. The stats show him to have had a great 09-10.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Jun 8, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions

(1982-1988 being the second-longest).

Wait, the Devils won a cup in 1989? I think you mean 1982-95.

Cheers, Complaints, homerism and bashing of mediocre pop musicians in 140 Characters
"DO NOT get stuck behind Kyle Wellwood in the buffet line. This isn't really etiquette, but it will prevent you from starving to death"- Down Goes Brown on Etiquette for Jason Spezza's wedding

by Kevin Sellathamby on Jun 8, 2010 7:57 PM EDT reply actions

I meant trips to the conference finals, not SCF. I apologize if I didn’t clarify.

Yankees in baseball, Giants in football and Devils in hockey. It's that simple. I have no off-season.

by DownGoesAvery on Jun 8, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions

yea it was abit unclear to me. You mentioned the CFs, but went right to the cup talk.

by Kevin Sellathamby on Jun 8, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, you see the point, this team is consistent. 1988, 1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2003….. I understand that winning Cups is not something that is given. Every bit of success is to be enjoyed and not taken with a grain of salt. But the bottom line is, the Devils have had the teams to make serious runs at conference finals and conference championships and Stanley Cups, and to come up completely dry three straight years as the higher seed is really amazing. What’s more: We won just once in the regular season each year we played our playoff opponent, twice winning on the season’s final day (NYR, CAR) and had a seeding decided on the season’s final day (NYR, PHI). Can you imagine how different things couldhave been with one bounce here or there, because all three games were one-goal games…

Yankees in baseball, Giants in football and Devils in hockey. It's that simple. I have no off-season.

by DownGoesAvery on Jun 8, 2010 8:06 PM EDT reply actions

So that would suggest the problem isn’t systemic, just awful luck. That would suggest changing something radically with the team wouldn’t necessarily get the desired goal.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Jun 8, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, while there has been a drought lately, it would be important to note that since the Devils first Conference Finals appearance in 1988, only ONE Eastern Conference team has been there more times (cringe, the Flyers). Pittsburgh has been there 6 times as well. Nobody else more than 4, one team, Atlanta, has never been there, and 3 others only once. We’re spoiled as Devils fans because of the past success. Only 2 teams make it that far every year, that’s 44 opportunities since ‘88. On average a team gets there just under 3 times in that span, we’ve had twice that.

Team CF Visits
Phil 7
NJ 6
Pitt 6
Bos 4
Buff 4
Car 3
Mont 3
NYR 2
Ott 2
Tor 2
Wash 2
Fla 1
NYI 1
TB 1

Go Jets
Go Devils

by FrankG929 on Jun 8, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Like I said...

I’m not trying to act as if we’re entitled to conference finals, we’re not. But with the talent we’ve had and the players that have come and gone, we probably should have made it at least once since the lockout.

You know which fan base has an extraordinary amount of entitlement amongst them? Philly fans. Enough said.

Yankees in baseball, Giants in football and Devils in hockey. It's that simple. I have no off-season.

by DownGoesAvery on Jun 9, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Ask any longtime fan of any team, and he’ll tell you that his team has “had enough talent” to get further than they did in the playoffs on a number of occasions. It isn’t restricted just to Devils fans, or Flyers fans, or Rangers fans, or the fans of any other team. There are enough upsets in the Stanley Cup Playoffs that just about everybody can make the argument. As for those teams that generally haven’t made the playoffs, they’ll simply argue that injuries, bad luck, etc., etc., cost them those same opportunities.

by acasser on Jun 11, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Now it looks like our star player will be leaving too

Brodeur is leaving?

by C.J. Richey on Jun 8, 2010 8:28 PM EDT reply actions

Kovy is a star, but he’s not our star. He is still the NHL’s star. Marty and Zach are the stars of the team and Kovy knows that. He needs to prove more that he is a star on the TEAM.

"Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps."- Tiger Woods

by RolliePollieKovy on Jun 8, 2010 8:42 PM EDT reply actions

True, but 8 out of 12 sellouts this season came after the Kovalchuk trade, and we had 27 games with him. Fans paid attention, the Devils jumped to 8th in TV ratings, he did do a lot from a marketing perspective.

Yankees in baseball, Giants in football and Devils in hockey. It's that simple. I have no off-season.

by DownGoesAvery on Jun 9, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions

MacLean will get his shot. But I don’t think a second year pro coach is the where I’d like to see the team go. That’s what you do in a rebuilding year and I don’t believe Lou is looking at next season as a rebuilding year.

Further more. This team as is last season is a cup contender….now granted it did not turn out even close. But 2nd in the conference doesn’t make you a chump. Cards played right next season they are cup contenders again. Potentially….do you really want to hand that team over to a rookie coach and either set yourself up or him (MacLean in this case) for failure?

As good as it could potentially be. It just might not be the right time. As much as I would love to see Johnny Mac as coach. I’d rather wait for a year that Stanley Cup expectations are not that high and we have a bunch of Rookies in the line up….Now if next season turns out to be that season then ….Yes I could agree. JM would be my preferred choice.

I just don’t think Lou is going to go in that direction just yet with Brodeur still having a few years left.

by NJDOhio on Jun 8, 2010 9:16 PM EDT reply actions

Let me get this straight. Because Lou builds primarily from within when it comes to player development and building a roster, he should pick his coaches the same way? That’s an apples-and-oranges comparison if I’ve ever heard one.

You can draft players for particular talents and attributes. You can develop them in your system to augment their positives, cover up their negatives, and mold them into the type of player you think fits your team. You can use the “eye test” and other metrics to determine a good player from a not-so-good player.

I’ve yet to see how you can judge a coach by similar objective criteria. You can’t even fairly judge a coach based solely on his record. We’ve seen a lot of coaches look really good based on the talent they’re given. We’ve seen a lot of coaches look good for stretches because their team gets ridiculously hot. We’ve seen a lot of coaches jump to another team and the results don’t follow.

To use another sport as an example, take NBA basketball. Mike D’Antoni looked like a world-beater with the Phoenix Suns, winning 50+ games every season. With the Knicks teams he’s been handed, 50 wins is taking him two seasons now to accumulate. Then there’s former Nets coach Lawrence Frank. When he was named head coach, the team won their first eleven games with him as the guy in charge and eventually made it to the second round of the playoffs. This season, he was fired when the team was 0-16 on the way to 0-18 and 12-70. In neither case is the team a reflection of how good the coach is/was, but that’s the standard by which he’ll often be judged.

I think the Devils are in the twilight of their “window of opportunity” to win another Cup with the team as presently constituted. Unfortunately for Johnny Mac, that makes it a lousy time for him (or any other unproven coach) to be handed the reins, because this really isn’t a “learn as you go” sort of position at the moment.

by acasser on Jun 8, 2010 9:21 PM EDT reply actions

^This

Building a team with players from within the system is a completely different situation in just about every aspect than choosing a coach.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain (?)

by elesias on Jun 9, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions

If we have MacLean, Stevens, Muller, among those out there, why would they consider Hitchcock and why is Therrein so high on Lou’s list? Okay, we get it, he likes the Montreal organization, so do I, but we have build a tradition of winning here now, so let’s apply the 1990s and early 2000s to now.

Yankees in baseball, Giants in football and Devils in hockey. It's that simple. I have no off-season.

by DownGoesAvery on Jun 9, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions

My guess would be because Hitchcock and Therrien have actual head coaching experience in the NHL, but I know as much (or as little) about what goes on in Lou’s head as anyone else.

The point is that it’s not hypocritical to not hire MacLean. Building from within when it comes to players isn’t about the ethics of it, it’s just a practical method of building a competitive team that fits under the salary cap. Hiring a coach is a combination of trying to find the best match of system, personality, motivational abilities, etc. among the available pool of candidates for the current team to achieve success.

It could be that Lou feels MacLean is too close to the players and they need more of a disciplinarian. It could be a lot of things.

In any event, the coach hasn’t even been named yet so condemning the guy for actions he hasn’t even taken yet is a bit unfair.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain (?)

by elesias on Jun 9, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Exactly.

That’s why I want MacLean, and that’s why if he signed MacLean, he would disprove my theory and I wouldn’t be attacking Lou, not that I really am, but this was more a reaction to the Therrein rumors, which I don’t believe at all.

I suppose anything is possible once the SCF are over. We may find out that Kovy resigned already, or that we have a coach, who knows.

Yankees in baseball, Giants in football and Devils in hockey. It's that simple. I have no off-season.

by DownGoesAvery on Jun 9, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I think you're jumping the gun here....

MacLean can still be the coach next season, right? Maybe he’s already been selected. Maybe he was told he won’t be yet. The finals are still going on, and Lou is most likely going to talk to Mike Haviland (who you omitted, but he’s a NJ draft pick and a NJ native). Shouldn’t Lou be the type of GM that talks to every possible candidate before ultimately making a decision? I think any good GM would do that.

Kovy could still sign with the Devils as well; there’s another 23 days of Devils only contract talks (minus the KHL). Do you really think Oduya was playing up to his $3.5 million/yr contract? 40GP-4PTS. Was Bergfors playing as good as he was in the beginning of the season when he traded?

If things work out for you in this pessimistic way, then you can rant, but as far as I’m concerned: MacLean may be the coach and Kovy may be signed.

by Matthew Ventolo on Jun 8, 2010 9:28 PM EDT reply actions

Listen, I’ll be highly surprised if Kovy re-signs, and I was the first one to say that I thought he would be traded to us. Look, I try not to be too high on anything or too low but Lou is stuck in the past. Get an offensive coach while our roster is offensive. If we had the Coyotes’ roster, then I’d say Dave Tippett would be a phenomenal choice, or Jacques Martin or even Quenneville, but Tippett moreso than the others.

Yankees in baseball, Giants in football and Devils in hockey. It's that simple. I have no off-season.

by DownGoesAvery on Jun 9, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions

I won’t be surprised if he re-signs. I didn’t think Kovy would be traded to the Devils, and I think I speak for the majority of Devils and hockey fans that it was more likely he was going to sign those huge contracts and get traded somewhere else. Did anyone think he was going to turn down those huge contracts? If he wanted that much money (or more), he would have signed or would have gone straight to the KHL already (if the Russian newspapers are accurate). It’s clear he isn’t a money hoarder; he wants to win. Why not be with an organization that has been winning since the mid-90s regardless or how much you make?

I’m not expecting him to re-sign, and personally I don’t want the Devils to re-sign (unless its mega-cheap).

by Matthew Ventolo on Jun 9, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions

(1) i don’t see how the kovy deal has anything to do with what you’re saying about lou’s supposed hypocrisy in hiring coaches
(2) i feel lucky to have gotten rid of oduya’s contract, i never felt he had the heart and passion to be a star player and his play after earning his payday showed it. bergfors took a long time to develop and his play dropped off severely midseason. he benefited from a change of scenery but he will probably always be a streaky scorer with shaky confidence. his history of shoulder injury doesn’t help – shoulders are the most unstable joints in the body and tend to reinjure at a higher frequency than other major joints. cormier had disciplinary issues and was also unimpressive at the world juniors this past year. with the exception of the first round pick, you could say that all of the assets we gave up were damaged goods, in a sense.
(3) both robbie ftorek and larry robinson had been assistant coaches with the devils before they were promoted to the head coaching job. since then, lou has brought in a series of coaches with very impressive resumes in burns, julien, sutter, and lemaire. there probably has not been a coach in the Devils system more worthy of being promoted to the head coaching position than Johnny Mac since Larry Robinson, and both Ftorek and Robinson had had previous stints as NHL head coaches.

by dr(d)evil on Jun 9, 2010 12:08 AM EDT reply actions

I do not disagree...

But when we say that Bergfors’s production dropped off mid-season, we also have to mention that he was moved from the 1st to 3rd line. It isn’t fair to say that his production dropped off mid-season because he was taken off the top line while he was still doing great – I still do not understand why he was taken off that line but maybe he ran over Lemaire’s dog or something.

by banstyk on Jun 10, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions

ridiculous post

Although i must admit that i was a little angry with lou over the jelly jar incident, calling him a hypocrite is absolutely insane.
WHAT PART OF THIS DEFINITION APPLYS????

hyp·o·crite /ˈhɪpəkrɪt/ Show Spelled[hip-uh-krit] Show IPA
–noun
1.a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2.a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

Lou is probably the most virtuous figure in all of sports, has maintained his ideals and principles throughout his career, and has taken a nothing franchise and built it into one of the most succesful franchises in the NHL.

Has he changed or reversed any of his tactics?abandoned the team first philosophy?

What he did do is take a 2nd pair defensman that we probably overpaid, a prospect who may or may not score 20 goals a year, and a minor league center who buy his conduct buned a bridge with Lou, and packaged them for one of the top 5 forwards in all of hockey.

if thats being a hypocrite sign me up!

by pepe22 on Jun 9, 2010 7:17 AM EDT reply actions

He’s not changing his tactics, but he drafts offensive players into a defensive system. Unless he’s holding back and going to make a big trade that none of us see coming, then I don’t understand why we have to waste offensive talent with defensive coaching.

Yankees in baseball, Giants in football and Devils in hockey. It's that simple. I have no off-season.

by DownGoesAvery on Jun 9, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions

What would you have him do? Sign all defensive minded players?

You win the Stanley Cup by having a sound defensive team, that doesnt’t make mistakes, and transitions to offense after the puck is in the neutral zone. Its also easier to grow defensive players through your system, but offensive players usually have it or they don’t.

Next time your at the Rock take a look at our 3 Stanley Cup banners and numerous other banners before you make such a drastic statement.

by pepe22 on Jun 9, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions

We don’t have a defensive team right now. That’s the point…

If we did, I wouldn’t complain. I want us to keep true to our system, but you know, Lou drafted offensively talented players. There isn’t anything wrong with that, but you have to adjust internally when you do that. It’s not just about throwing guys out there, you know that, I know you know that.

Yankees in baseball, Giants in football and Devils in hockey. It's that simple. I have no off-season.

by DownGoesAvery on Jun 9, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Lou’s philosophy (and that of David Conte, who has a great deal of power over that area of the franchise) is to draft the best player available — and they’ve said that on a number of occasions. It is a part of why we’ve drafted a three goalies with very high picks during the Brodeur era (two #1s, and Frazee was a high #2). It likely ties into this idea that the team is grabbing “offensively talented” players for a “defensive system”.

When you draft at the very top of the draft, you can take need more into account, because it is more likely (especially in today’s NHL) that you’re bringing the guy straight into your lineup. Thus, you might draft someone who is a better fit for your system instead of a slightly better overall player.

When you draft down in the 20s on a reasonably consistent basis, you’re seldom getting players who are going to step into a lineup immediately. Ergo, you draft who you think will be the best player for you over the long term and hope the roll of the dice works out.

by acasser on Jun 11, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions

We need a coach that is going to get us to go the extra mile for him. In the playoffs you have to have the intensity and grit to make it through the long haul. You definitely have to have a coach the players believe in and want to play for. Someone from within the organization would be the best choice. Give Donny a shot he may be that type of coach.

Donald Vasquez

by don_vas on Jun 9, 2010 5:44 PM EDT reply actions