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Does Tallinder make up for losing Martin?

He's cheaper, at $3.375M/yr, but he's two years older.  I haven't seen much of him, and he seems like a reliable D-man, but is he of equal value to NJ as Martin was?  Tallinder is 6'3, 214lbs and had 4G, 20A last season and was a +13. Also, does getting Tallinder help New Jersey get Ilya Kovalchuk?  They seriously need to land a big name to keep from falling off the map.


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ok nice start on defense

by jonnynovs on Jul 1, 2010 4:19 PM EDT reply actions  

VOLCHENKOV TO NJ

6 year deal. Tallinder + Volchenkov definitely softens the blow of losing Martin so quickly. Is it enough, though?

by njdss4 on Jul 1, 2010 4:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Is that for sure, they sighned Volchenkov?

by maliky on Jul 1, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am still digesting this signing. Will await Lou other moves to see if our team has improved as we enter the next season !

by Old Puck 1 on Jul 1, 2010 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

hello……defense! i think this deff makes up for the loss

by jonnynovs on Jul 1, 2010 4:27 PM EDT reply actions  

HELL YEA

i am very happy with this deal but what are the terms? anyone know how much?

by Jacques Strapp on Jul 1, 2010 4:27 PM EDT reply actions  

guess no more Kaberle sweepstakes

by czman007 on Jul 1, 2010 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

lou wasnt gonna give up one of his top 6 forwards for kaberle…our offense is too strong to infect it by losing someone thats important to us

by Devils1192 on Jul 1, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not by itself...

but with 6 YEARS of Volchenkov, I’m happy. I’m sure he can learn from Stevens about that hip check :D

by skly27 on Jul 1, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

six years @ 25.5 mill.

by maliky on Jul 1, 2010 4:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Pairings?

Early thoughts on what our pairings will be on D next year? Also, does the signing of 2 FA D mean that Mottau won’t be back?

by NJHockey8 on Jul 1, 2010 5:30 PM EDT reply actions  

I sure hope that means Mottau won’t be coming back. Bring up anyone from the minors as a replacement for him.

by njdss4 on Jul 1, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

devils just signed johan hedberg for one year 1.5mil?..why not danis?

by jonnynovs on Jul 1, 2010 5:36 PM EDT reply actions  

i think its because Hedberg is a veteran who will be more capable of 20 games in the regular season.

by KingHellfire on Jul 1, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

not happy

i am not happy with what lou did today
volchenkov+tallinder (bum)

a-train is cool, but can he score, no…who on the D on our team can?

PS3: J-CAMPS

by J-camps on Jul 1, 2010 5:36 PM EDT reply actions  

have some faith the offseason isn’t over yet. But all in all i’m happy with the moves thus far.

by KingHellfire on Jul 1, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Every board i go to on this site has you complaining

Look. We get it. You want offense from the D. But give this a chance. The Defense’s main job is (surprise) DEFENSE. And these moves make the DEFENSE much stronger.

by skly27 on Jul 1, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

You noticed that too? Here’s hoping j-camps is wrong.

J-camps, do you like the Clarkson re-signing? Not being sarchastic, just was wondering.

So long farewell, auf weidersehen good-bye

by Devil_Hard_Core on Jul 1, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe he does

First comment here.

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by FrankG929 on Jul 1, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

and you agree with me when i said pandolfo is a waste and i made a fanthing or whatever its called but got deleted saying

after thinking about these trades, i liked them…but someone deleted it

PS3: J-CAMPS

by J-camps on Jul 2, 2010 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can’t speak to what was deleted, but no, I don’t think Pando is/was a waste. He’d served the Devils well and his performance wasn’t up to par, so cutting him loose was a good move. I’m glad he was a Devil all the years he was and hope he lands somewhere next year if he still wants to play.

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by FrankG929 on Jul 2, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

ya he was ok back then, but now we just didnt need him and 2.5 for him is WAAYY to much, rather just have neidermayer/macammond for 1mill instead

PS3: J-CAMPS

by J-camps on Jul 2, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like it so far

I like having a D man that can actually throw a hit and block a shot. I’m not too sure about Tallinder. I never really pain much attention to him in Buffalo. Hedberg is a solid back up for Marty. I didn’t realize until today that they were almost the same age.
From reading the posts above I have more faith in Kovy coming back to NJ. He has a fellow Russian on the blue line now and a good friend as a back up that he spoke highly of thru out the last year. Also he has the same agent as Volchenkov so maybe they are hashing out a deal.

by Mike Gill on Jul 1, 2010 9:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Not enough

I think this is as much an indictment against losing Martin as it is the Devils really needing to upgrade the Defense.
Honestly, Id rather have both Tallinder and Volchenkov than Martin on his own. That being said, we lose a puck-moving defenseman, and have not replaced him. But, it is just July 1st, many more days of summer coming to address the need. There are still plenty of UFA’s out there and although most of the big names are signed, Lou has a way of signing less-than-spectacular players and they work out for the Devils.
If we sign one more Defenseman (an Offensive/ puck-moving Defenseman), I will feel MUCH better about losing Paulie Martin.
Now, just hope Jason Arnott takes his original number back, so I can swap out the nameplate on my Martin jersey, argh.

by Skuba7 on Jul 1, 2010 10:58 PM EDT reply actions  

“What Lou means is to be a Devil certain guys take less money to be part of a winning organization and that kind of thing,” Martin said. Wow right there he told us whats first for him money. Also kinda strange hearing that when many Devils have been payed well. I think most anyone would be happy with a few million. Take that all of you who said Kovalchuk is about the money. The contracts Kovalchuk has been offered he didn’t push for like Martin did. Not to mention the way Martin finishes the quote is rude after all the Devils organization has done for him and all the players who have been Devils.

by KingHellfire on Jul 2, 2010 12:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Martin

Can we stop the Martin love fest now. There is no way you can compare losing Martin to Rafalski or Neidermayer.

Read Martin’s comments. He left us for the same money to go to Pittsburgh because he thinks they are closer to winning. Lets hope he doesn’t have the same luck as Nieds or Rafalski. There is a common thread here. Niedermayer, Rafaski,and now Martin left us for another team when Lou offered essentially the same deals. To that I say good riddance.

Lou is a principled person, and he is not going to pay MORE for the right to be a Devil. If anything I think he believes you should take less to stay.

I have posted in the past about Martin not being all that, and we are a mucher tougher defense to play against now. Look for Urbom to get a serious look and maybe jump in front of Corrente and Eckford.

by pepe22 on Jul 4, 2010 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Martin was SO overrated...

… and he’s a jerk. Tallinder is the perfect replacement, and he’s bigger and stronger. He’s also a good mentor for the younger Swedes in the system, and an Olympian.
Volchenkov is tougher than 10 Paul Martins put together, and will probably score more than the pantywaist 4-11-15 totals that Martin was known for.
Please get rid of Salvador next, although he puts up Paul Coffey numbers compared to Martin.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way

by myrick4gm on Jul 4, 2010 10:22 PM EDT reply actions  

He’s not a “perfect” replacement, but he’s suitable. He definitely brings things to the table that Martin did not, but he’s not going to replace the points Martin brought. Looking at his numbers he’s only a bit more than half as productive.

Martin totaled 37, 26, 32, 33 and 11 points each year of his five year career thus far , averaging .425 points per game (PPG). Tallinder has scored 21, 14, 18, 12 and 20 points in his five years, an average of .246 PPG.

Not sure where you got 4-11-15 for Martin, but he never had a season where he scored that. The closest would be this past season where he went 2-9-11 in only 22 games, but actually had the highest PPG total of his career (.500).

John did an extensive series of posts showing just how not overrated Martin is. On the contrary, he’s underrated. You may not like him or his decision to play for the Penguins, but he’s a pretty solid two-way defenseman.

Tallinder is a nice acquisition and I like the signing, but he’s not likely to replace Martin’s offense.

To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.

by elesias on Jul 4, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

He may not replace Martin’s offensive production but he can’t be anymore invisible in the playoffs then Martin has been. Cause come playoff time Martin never showed up. He played like Langs did in the playoffs this year every year. Not to mention the d core proved it could handle Martin being gone and that was before the two new defense came on board. I believe that offensive production from the defense is overrated. Take for instance Mike Green great offensive numbers not so much defense. To me Martin was much like Green minus the great shot and point production.

by KingHellfire on Jul 5, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also think if Volchenkov is given a chance to shoot more often as a Devil he can match Martin for points. Yes he only had 4 goals in 68 games but he also only had 53 shots on goal however that was a 7.5 percent shooting percentage if he only doubled it in a full season that would be roughly 10 goals. Not to mention i saw him in a Sens skill competition and I believe him to be underrated as far as his skating ability and his stick handling. I guess time will tell.

by KingHellfire on Jul 5, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Saying he is like Mike Green minus the shot and point production, and plus some defense is like saying he’s nothing like Mike Green.

I’m not quite sure how you can say offensive production from the defense is overrated. Offense from anywhere isn’t overrated, especially from a place one doesn’t normally expect it. Offense = Good. Offense + Defense = Better. It’s not good for a team to have to rely on production from their defense, but any time another team has to respect the shot and/or passing of the guys manning the point, it only helps everyone else in the offensive zone. Otherwise they can just key in on the real offensive threats and let White and Salvador smack dead ducks in the general direction of the net.

Regardless of your personal views on him or how he has performed in the playoffs (and really, who couldn’t have a finger pointed at them?), the simple fact is that he was the best offensive threat the team had on the blueline. The stats back that up. He may not as a person or a performer be missed, but his production will… and the question of whether Tallinder replaces that is answered with a negative.

To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.

by elesias on Jul 5, 2010 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dont think thats quite true. For my money Andy Greene was the best Offensive Defenseman on our team last year, and has the potential to get better.

by pepe22 on Jul 5, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Martin edged Greene out in PPG (.500 compared to .474), but it was a shortened season (a big part of why Greene was given the opportunity to show what he could do) so there’s something to be said for that.

Martin has showed scoring consistency (25+ points the last five years). Greene had his breakout year last year and was great for the team, but which is the real Andy Greene, the one that scored 37 points last year or the one that scored a total of 25 points in the previous three seasons (.205 PPG)? Time will tell, but at this moment Martin has been the best offensive threat we’ve had on the blueline.

In any event, the team had two guys who could move the puck, and we lost half of them. Greene has the potential to get better, but so does Martin. Greene also has the potential to regress, whereas Martin has already shown his consistency. That he’s on a more offensively motivated team now will likely improve his numbers even further.

In the end I hope you’re right, but I have my reservations.

To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.

by elesias on Jul 5, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Martin will certainly outscore Greene this coming season, as long as health isnt an issue for either. I still hope we can pull off one offensive-minded defenseman before the offseason ends.

by Skuba7 on Jul 5, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets see what happens with Urbom. I’m guessing he gets a real shot to make this team.

by pepe22 on Jul 5, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Looks more and more like a reality if Kovy signs, no money to sign anyone else!

by Skuba7 on Jul 5, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t see what Martin did so great on defense is my point. Thats my comparision of him to Green, they both also sacrifice d to jump up in the play.

by KingHellfire on Jul 5, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

He had a positive effect on just about everyone when he was on the ice.

He compared favorably to his colleagues in all categories, particularly 5-on-5:

2009-10 was even better for Martin. First in SAON/60 impact, first in SAON/60, and while he played with a high quality of teammates, his quality of competition wasn’t weak at all. That the shots against per 60 rate dropped by 7.3 when Martin came on the ice was and still is ridiculous.

And this post shows how he rates with the rest of the league.

Martin isn’t the greatest defenseman, but he was the best one we had and he was the best two-way one one the market.

To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.

by elesias on Jul 5, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I would not expect the A train or Talinder to put up Martins offense numbers, but they will both be better in our own end. Maybe Urbom or Corrente bring the offense. Maybe Taormina gets a look, or some other name that isnt even on the roster yet, but our defense in our own end is better now.

Whoever it is that picks up the offense, at least we will know that they want to be here. There is nothing worse than a traitor, and a player who leaves for an equal or lesser contract is a traitor.

by pepe22 on Jul 4, 2010 10:59 PM EDT reply actions  

My gut feeling is that losing Martin is a blessing in disguise. Hell, it may not even be a disguise at all. We needed a stronger, more physical defense and thats exactly what we got after he left. Sure, our defense wont put up the offensive numbers that they potentially could have with Martin on the roster, but with a stronger blueline and a much better offensive core that can score I think the Devils are in great shape to make another strong push to the Cup.

by Marty'sBetter30 on Jul 6, 2010 5:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Couldn’t agree more. The Devils got booted from the playoffs because the D was too small and not defensive enough to keep the damn puck out of Brodie’s end. Plain and simple. The big sacks of meat we call the Flyers set up shop in front of Marty and went to town. They goon-armed their way into the zone, knocked people off pucks, and tossed enough crap at the net that some went in. A more offensive Defense is the last thing we need to remedy that problem.

I loved Paul, the guy was all heart and hard work. He was a damn fine 2-way DMan. He left for Pitt. Hate him for it all you will. It was pretty clear he wasn’t happy here, and he left. It’s over. He wasn’t replaced. The Defense was rebuilt with big, physical guys willing to get infront of a shot if they have to.

As it stands now, this team is positioned to finish at or near the top of the Division, and with a Kovy, they will be unstoppable. I have to think that part of Lou’s spending spree on the D was meant as a public demonstration that the kind of breakdown seen at the end of last season will not be repeated, and that they are serious about winning NOW. All part of the Kovy courting.

by Murdoc on Jul 6, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

They definitely needed to add a little size and snarl to the blueline, and they did, but there seems to be a general disconnect regarding offense.

Offensive production from the defense leads to offensive production from the offense. If teams don’t have to respect the pointmen when a team establishes possession in the offensive zone, it makes it that much easier to defend the three forwards who actually pose a threat. You don’t necessarily need a Mike Green back there, but you do need someone who can actually hit the net and cause the other team to honor his presence.

To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.

by elesias on Jul 6, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, its why we need one more offensive defenseman, but with what money? Someone like Colaiacovo or Corvo would work just fine, but we need to shed salary first.

by Skuba7 on Jul 6, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Understood. I foresee a lot of changes on the point when there’s indications of extended possession in the offensive zone. Tallinder can hit the net well enough. Probably more frequently than Rolston. (j/k. kinda)

I’m really not worried yet. There’s an entire offseason for these guys to be assimilated into the Devils’ system.

One more puck mover wouldn’t be a bad thing. Going to be hard to fund after Kovy signs. Then I might start worrying. But just a little.

by Murdoc on Jul 6, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

You could hit the net more frequently than Rolston.

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by FrankG929 on Jul 6, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember watching a game last season and making specific notice of him getting the puck on net a lot more frequently than I recalled previously. I started paying attention to it, and he really didn’t seem to miss the net as much as I expected him to, not any more so any other wicked blaster guy taking a blind or quick shot to try and force a rebound. I’d love to see some behindthenet stuff on his accuracy, but I cannot access that site from work.

by Murdoc on Jul 6, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure how well this will come out, but I think it’s readable:

G – Goals. SH – Shots on goal saved by goaltender. MS – Missed net.
DIST – Average shooting distance. SPCT – shooting percentage (European-style, includes missed shots.)
Total also includes backhands, deflections and wrap-arounds and will not match the sum of the other three categories.

TOTAL
G SH MS DIST SPCT
13 155 47 36.4 6

SLAP SHOTS
G SH MS DIST SPCT
3 64 13 47.5 3.8

SNAP SHOTS
G SH MS DIST SPCT
0 22 13 39.6 0

WRIST SHOTS
G SH MS DIST SPCT
4 53 17 30.3 5.4

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by FrankG929 on Jul 6, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

202 Shots, 47 missed. 23% overall missing the net. That’s 1 out of 4 missing. Is that really that bad?How does he compare to some of the other “Heavy Shot” guys out there?

I mean, he hits the net more often than he doesn’t. Three saved for every one that misses. Maybe it’d be easier to cope with if he scored more. 13 goals vs. 155 shots. That’s about 1 in 13 that could score actually go in.

by Murdoc on Jul 6, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I filtered the Forwards who played 40+ games and 10 minutes per game. There were 313 of them. Rolston’s miss to (miss + shot) rate of 23.27% was, get ready for this, 43rd BEST. Devils fans are not going to like hearing this, but Niclas Bergfors was best in the league among forwards at his shot attempts being on-net (16.58% missed). Perhaps I’ll do a fan post on it, focusing on the Devils, obviously…

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by FrankG929 on Jul 6, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely should, Rolston isn’t as bad as his rep, at least in terms of his personal war against glass. More goals would be nice, but he’s in the top 15% of the league in actually hitting the net, something he’s been relentlessly beat upon for.

by Murdoc on Jul 6, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

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