Kovalchuk's contract Has been rejected for Cap Circumvention
More to come..
Editor's Note: I'm honestly shocked by this. Gulitti says Lou has refused comment, Jeff Vanderbeek said he didn't hear about this yet officially. I'd love to see the justification for this given that the Marian Hossa deal was accepted last season.
Comments
I HATE BETTMAN
HE CAN’T HAVE THE DEVILS BEING EXCITING. Why the hell would you let Hossa’s go through?? Or DiPietro’s??? O Hossa is going to a big market and DiPi is helping the LH Project. Who the hell cares? This is terrible. Time and money spent on a presser and they reject it. Thats all BS. But Kovy will sign for less maybe 100 million for 17 years. Lou better appeal this BS of a rejection. Bring them to court Lou!
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 9:42 PM EDT reply actions
Lamoriello wins. Bettman has made way too many enemies. Lamoriello’s only enemies are the Rangers execs and The St. Louis Blues.
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 20, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Lamorello knows the CBA inside and out — he was on the team that negotiated the last one, which is probably why he knows where the loopholes are. I can’t imagine he’d put his seal of approval on the contract if he thought it would be rejected, and said rejection would stand up to an arbitrator’s decision.
Mind you, it will probably take ten seconds for this type of contract to be outlawed under the new CBA. Until then, however, it is my opinion that this is legal…. and I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see a dozen such contracts signed before 2012 for just that reason.
It can’t be bad thing. Lou did nothing illegal and he’ll win in court. Bettman has nothing on this and is just trying to get the Kings involved again. All NJ lawyers will be on this and will win. All you have to do is bring up Hossa’s and DiPietro’s contract and its a win. He’ll still be a Devil but now it will take some time to call him a Devil for life. Trust me Vanderbeek will pay the best lawyers if he can do that to win this. He can’t lose either. I hate TSN now. Freeloading Canadiens (Fam Guy remark)
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe DiPietro’s contract is $4.5m per year, every year of the deal. That makes it a different sort of animal from the Hossa, Pronger, and Kovalchuk deals that are heavily front-loaded.
That is true.
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 20, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
WTF
THIS IS THE BIGGEST BULLL CRAP! HOW IN THE WORLD DID HOSSA’S GO THROUGH
I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know exactly what the ground rules are. However, if this is at all similar to how the other major US leagues operate, there’s a special master or arbitrator to whom the Devils can appeal. If I’m Lou, I do exactly that, and I bring up the Pronger and Hossa deals as evidence in my favor. If those two deals were acceptable, I don’t see why this one wouldn’t be.
Sure, the Kovy deal probably violates the spirit of the CBA, but the NHL would have to present a better argument as to why this one is more egregious than the other two. Personally, I don’t see what legal standing the league would have.
Conspiracy theory:
Lou sabotaged the deal because he didn’t want it, but ownership pushed for it. He didn’t sit next to Kovalchuk during the press conference afterall, and he was much more candid than we’ve probably ever seen him.
But seriously, it’s possible it contributed. ESPN reports that it was because the final years had too small a dollar amount, while other sources say they don’t believe either side expects him to play until he’s 44. Seems like a minor tweak like knocking off a year or two and bumping some of the front-loaded amount to the final years to get them up to $1m would be enough.
DON'T PANIC.
Lou sabotaged the deal because he didn’t want it, but ownership pushed for it.
That’s a really good way to get yourself fired for cause on grounds often called “insubordination”. If Lou didn’t want the deal, I imagine it wouldn’t have gotten done — nobody pushes Lou around. If Lou really didn’t want the deal, but ownership was insistent that it had to be done, I imagine Lou would have quit rather than do it.
A nice theory, but one only conspiracy nuts could love.
shoulda known it too good to be true
I suffer from selective short term amnesia and have chosen to forget about the 2010 post season.
by Devil_Hard_Core on Jul 20, 2010 9:50 PM EDT reply actions
All they need to do is spread the money out differently if the League does win. Take some from the fat years and move it to the lean years so there isn’t as huge a difference. But like y’all said, it ain’t illegal if there no rule that specifically prohibits it.
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the problem is that the kovalchuk deal goes until kovalchuk is 44. the hossa deal goes until he is 42. if kovalchuk can take a few million off the deal, a 15 year, 95 million dollar deal wouldn’t be the end of the world.
Think Grossman and Kovalchuk are
pissed off?
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
If they can use Hossa’s and Pronger’s contracts on the one side, why not use Chelios and Gordie Howe? They both played until well beyond 44. I’m user there are other examples of players that old. Plus the strides modern medicine is making, maybe 44 in 17 years will be more like 34 is now.
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this his brendan shanahan getting retrobution against the devils all over it.
by kewlnsimpguy on Jul 20, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
He’s not even in a position of power.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
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by John Fischer on Jul 20, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Trust me Vanderbeek will be all over this
But we have news coming in… Bettman has gotten out of bed with Crosby…. But another breaking story has him going back to bed and saying in quote “Everything will be ok.” Back to you (Insert name).
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
chelios and gordie howe are enormous outliers in hockey history – howe played until he was 50, so if new jersey had signed him to a 23 year deal, would that have been fine? it’s completely fair of the NHL to decide that enough is enough – it’s just unfortunate that it has to happen now.
No its not fair
You can’t just arbitrarily decide when to change the rules. Is this contract good for the NHL? Probably not. Does it violate the spirit of the CBA? Quite possibly. But the NHL does not have the right to reject contracts that do not violate the collective bargaining agreement. A loophole is a loophole… Until the next CBA is negotiated, the NHL’s hands are tied
Well, Kovy did say it wasn't about the money.
I am sure that you guys heard what he said outside after the press conference.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 21, 2010 5:16 AM EDT up reply actions
this is the most corrupt thing i have possibly ever seen. WAY past goverment stuff. this is insanity! no explenation, tsn announces it before nhl.com or anything… wheres john to bring some sense into this T_T
Sense
CALM DOWN
Let’s wait and see what the reasoning is for this.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jul 20, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
if he signs with the kings now … i dont know what ill do
by kewlnsimpguy on Jul 20, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
O please
don’t say that. If that is even a possibility.
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That might be worth it just to see Quisp’s about face concerning Kovalchuk and long-term deals.
DON'T PANIC.
Oh, he'd stay consistent.
He’s a man of his word, trust me.
I can’t believe Bettman, though. I have to think this is a long-range shot across the bow aimed at 2012.
My condolences, and can’t wait to see what magic Lou works this time. The man is truly impressive…
Lou will win
But again another day on the computer until it say BETTMAN LOSES AGAIN
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't wait to see what they have to say about this....
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Am I the only one who thinks the NHL is doing this more to make it appear like they’re doing something than because they think they’ll actually win when this case goes to court? I don’t think they’ll win. I just think they’re trying to set a precedent of trying to stop these deals from going through.
They’re trying to put their foot down. They’re just doing it to someone they feel is not a cash cow for the league. The problem is they’re up against Lamoriello, the NHLPA, Grossman, Kovalchuk and possibly many more.
In Lou We Trust: Now More productive than a New Jersey Devils Powerplay
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 20, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Note #2
I added the Marian Hossa contract breakdown for reference from CapGeek.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
Great piece from Chesnokov
RT @Jay_Gold_: cough Mike Richards, Chris Pronger, Henrik Zetterberg, Marian Hossa, Rick Dipietro, Johan Franzen, Duncan Keith & Vinny …
Cough Cough
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t use all those deals as comparables to the Kovy deal. Only the ones that are heavily front-loaded and have obvious low-dollar years tacked on the end to bring down a hit.
I mentioned DiPietro above ($4.5m a year for 15 years, no variation)…. and I suspect some of the others are similar situations. I don’t have the patience to dig through each one tonight to judge, however.
Depends on what the case is for rejecting the deal. If it’s the length, then they count. If it’s the breakdown, then yes, only some matter. The point is that you can’t allow others, reject this one on some newly-defined grounds.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
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by John Fischer on Jul 20, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough….. and you could even build a case that 15 years is alright and 17 is not, although I suspect it would be on incredibly shaky ground before an arbitrator.
what case?
the slippery slope argument? I highly doubt that holds much weight in legal proceedings. the nhl is just trying to position itself for the next cba, and try to curtail this as best they can. i can’t imagine they think they’re gonna actually win this.
Looks like Bettman wants to piss off the few people he may not have already. Well i’d say Lou wins this hands down. Because this is clearly an example of a double standard, and bias.
by KingHellfire on Jul 21, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, then if they’re going to get technical, ANY contract that has values in different years different than any other year (3M, 4M, 5M, 6M = 4.5M cap hit) circumvents the salary cap.
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this is..
i was gonna order myt kovy jersey for my bday which is this saturday… now… i dont know
Happy Birthday! My birthday is the day after tomorrow.
It’s your birthday. I say take a chance and order the jersey.
He'll sign but it is just a matter of time
Once again.. Stuck on the computer… Great
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
From the CBA:
and/or Offer Sheets; Subsequent Challenge and/or De-
Registration of SPCs and/or Offer Sheets.
(a) Rejection of SPCs and/or Offer Sheets. In the case of an SPC or an
Offer Sheet, as the case may be, that is filed and rejected by the League, the following
rules and procedures shall apply:
(i) If an SPC or an Offer Sheet is rejected: (A) because it results in
the signing Club exceeding the Upper Limit, or (B) because it does
not comply with the Maximum Player Salary or © because it is or
involves a Circumvention of either the Club’s Upper Limit or the
Maximum Player Salary, and:
(x) if the NHLPA does not timely dispute and refer to the
Arbitrator such rejection in the manner set forth in Section 11.5(g) above, then
immediately upon the expiration of the time period within which the NHLPA may
dispute and refer to the Arbitrator such rejection, the SPC or Offer Sheet, as the
case may be, will be deemed null and void ab initio (i.e., the Player’s Free Agency
and/or contractual status shall revert to the status he held prior to signing his SPC
or Offer Sheet, as the case may be), and the Player shall not be entitled to any of
the rights or benefits provided for under the rejected SPC or Offer Sheet, as the
case may be; or
(y) if the NHLPA does timely dispute and refer to the Arbitrator
such rejection in the manner set forth in Section 11.5(g) above, then such dispute
over that rejection shall be both heard and decided by the Arbitrator within fortyeight
(48) hours of such referral, during which period the Player shall not be
entitled to play under such SPC or Offer Sheet, as the case may be, and shall not
be entitled to any of the rights and benefits provided for under such SPC or Offer
43 Sheet, as the case may be, pending a resolution of such grievance by the
Arbitrator.
So, looks like we’ll be going to arbitration.
The way I’m reading it (see the comment above, not very well mind you)…. I think the whole process from the moment of appeal is 48 hours. A hearing would be during that time period, as well as the verdict from the arbitrator.
I don’t know what the time period to file said appeal is, but I imagine Lou and Vanderbeek are already working on that and their case. Given Lou’s past performance in these hearings — the Scott Stevens/Brendan Shanahan compensation deal being a masterful example — I’m more confident in this than I am in beating the Flyers in the playoffs next year should we meet.
that's only if it goes to arbitration
The NHL (or NHLPA) has what appears to be an amount of time to investigate a possible circumvention. If they conclude the contract circumvents the CBA, the Club can file for arbitration. THEN there’s a hearing, THEN the Arbiter has 48 hours to make a decision. Here’s the important bits:
26.10 Investigations
(a) The Commissioner of the NHL or the Executive Director of the NHLPA (the “Investigator”) may, sua sponte or based upon reports or complaints received by either, commence an investigation regarding whether a Circumvention has occurred.
(d) There shall be no limitation of time barring the investigation of a Circumvention by the Commissioner.
(e) At the conclusion of his investigation, the Investigator shall issue a written determination regarding whether or not, in his opinion, a Circumvention has occurred. The Investigator’s determination shall not be binding, but it shall be fully admissible in any hearing commenced before the System Arbitrator pursuant to Section 26.13 below.
That’s rather vague, to put it lightly. If I’m reading this right, the NHL can "investigate"any deal for any length of time.
It raises another question:
Where’s the investigation? This deal what
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
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by John Fischer on Jul 21, 2010 7:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's my reading.
What I thought was weird was that the challenged is brought by the NHLPA rather than the team.
by Doctor Smack on Jul 20, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Players will always file challenges through the NHLPA — that’s part of the union’s job.
In this case, it is likely the Devils and Kovalchuk vs. the NHL. While there’s probably a mechanism for resolving a dispute between one team and the league, Kovalchuk being in the center of this makes it just as likely to go through the NHLPA devices.
Another thing that's weird about the contract
Is that it’s very serious about “Circumvention,” but the definitions section does not define what circumvention actually is.
by Doctor Smack on Jul 20, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Devils fans should show Gary our appreciation
and send a bulk order to his doorstep-
http://www.ecplaza.net/tradeleads/seller/6813270/cow_dung_manure.html
by NerdVernacular on Jul 20, 2010 10:12 PM EDT reply actions
Good idea
I’ll order that before my jersey lol
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
We win the appeal and don't do anything
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Anybody else laughing at the comments at TSN??
These people are buffooms and don’t know what they are talking about. Ha ha
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
TSN commenters have the average IQ of a pile of rocks. Ignore them.
In Lou We Trust: Now More productive than a New Jersey Devils Powerplay
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 20, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep buying your gear!! He is a Dev.
Don’t worry peeps! I’m here, were all here, Kovy is here and he will stay a Devil.
They will figure this out. Lou will figure this out. Marty is on the phone with Gary B. right now.
))
He better be or I'll personally walk up to Crosby doorstep....... lol
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
No need to panic
Kovy will be a Devil, regardless. Either the arbitrator will rule in favor of Kovalchuk or the deal will undergo slight modifications to please the NHL without appreciably changing the core of the contract.
OUT OF DREGER....
Kovy’s deal was rejected because the NHL doesn’t believe either the player or the Devils expected he would be playing near end of deal
BS what about the other contracts given?
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
thats garbage. hossa till 42 who is less talented than kovalchuk at 44.. thats just stupid
by kewlnsimpguy on Jul 20, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
IF SO, THERE'S NO CASE
unless they have a direct quote from kovalchuk or someone in the devils organization saying otherwise, it’s going to be pretty impossible to prove what an organization “believes”.
Where does Bettman get off
rejecting this contract when all the other ridiculously long contracts went through? This better go through, otherwise it just proves that even the league itself hates New Jersey more than any other. Good job turning us into a martyr team, you’ll just piss us off for the regular season and we’ll own you all.
TG Writes
Now, he’s VP of hockey operations for Devils and overees all cap concerns with contracts. If there’s anyone who knows CBA and cap, it’s him
I don’t get this one bit.
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 10:33 PM EDT reply actions
That is Steve Pellegrini btw.
" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 20, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh just annoying...
I doubt Bettman would be doing this if the Kings had signed him. Regardless, he’s making a lot of enemies…
Did you know Joe Morgan thinks Cano will win a batting title one day?
It has nothing to do with the Kings
The NHL is not stupid, regardless of what we say. They know they are getting bad publicity and fighting this battle and losing they win in a sense. They set up the rule change and win back some of the fans that are upset over this deal. They are essentially buying publicity. They want the fight because it makes them look good. Its politics. Where this hurts us isn’t Kovy its Parise. It’ll limit the options we have for him.
There's no legal grounds!
Ridiculous! For the deal to be truly illegal, the league would have to PROVE that at the time the contract was signed, some agreement for Kovalchuk to retire before the end of the contract existed. That would certainly invalidate the contract (despite the reality that he likely won’t play out the entire length of the contract) because entering a contract in which neither side intends to fill the promises of is, and always will be, illegal.
But for the league, for players and the Devils front office to simply “believe” that perhaps Kovalchuk wouldn’t be playing near the end of the deal misses the point – so what if he might retire before the end of it? Kovy hasn’t claimed that he would (in fact, Kovy’s comment about “staying in shape so he could play well into his 40’s” indicates that he does not officially intend to retire within the length of the contract. Lou hasn’t claimed that he would, Jeff Vanderbeek hasn’t claimed that he would, and Jay Grossman hasn’t claimed that he would. How do you definitively prove intent in a situation where no one has claimed intent to retire, and thereby invalidate the contract?
If they press the “cap circumvention” point, (which is, believe it or not, pretty vague in the actual CBA), then why did the league not reinvestigate the Hossa contract and deem THAT circumvention as well? Because if they’re being totally fair, they would. But you wouldn’t screw over the Stanley Cup Champions, right, Bettman? That would be horrible PR for your league, and you couldn’t possibly allow someone in the Atlantic Division to have a scorer like Kovalchuk, because that would make it too tough for your little Crybaby Crosby to win, right?
Calm down
This isn’t a legal battle its a political one. The NHL is setting up the rule change and rejected it based on principal. It’s setting a precedent. They can’t win so they can’t lose. At the end of the day we’ll still get Kovy and they’ll walk into the CBA getting tougher rules in place with a limited fight from the NHLPA.
1) Why the cheap shot at Crosby? He has absolutely 0 to do with this.
2) It’s horrible PR for the league for the Devils to make their biggest signing in history, actually have a press conference for it, and splash the news all over the league page and then tell them afterward, “Sorry, this deal’s not acceptable.”
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
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by John Fischer on Jul 20, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, with the number of people that are/were upset that the Devils and Kovalchuk put together a 17-year deal, I think the League not only ‘wins back’ fans of teams that are not the Devils, they also show the rest of the League that they wont allow such deals.
As much as the Hossa deal bothers us and is the contract we are looking at, I think the pronger deal is worse. He is a defenseman, and goes from $7.6M and just 4 years later (when he is 40!), he’s making $525K.
So, in order for us to fix this to get the League off our back, it looks like its time to tweak the numbers and increase 4 of the last 6 years of the Contract.
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
Whats the point of a team and a player and his agent making a deal if the league can interfere whenever they want. Not to mention the fact they didn’t even notify the Devils prior to their announcement.
by KingHellfire on Jul 21, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Kovy’s agreement is not illegal, just not enforceable. Also, there are other grounds by which the league could demonstrate an unwillingness by the parties to operate in good faith to the terms of the contract besides proving intent.
But, way to go for interweaving Sidney Crosby into your comment because he has an enforceable contract and is therefore totally irrelevant to the conversation.
Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.
by Will Bulldozer on Jul 21, 2010 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Oops..
Reread this after calming down. Excuse the cheap-shot – it was out of a lot of frustration. Just really wanted this to finally be over and done with. Obviously it’s easy to call out a top player like Crosby, on a team which has had more success post-lockout, as a Devil’s fan – and heck, his contract is completely normal. My apologies.
I do hope though, that they re-evaluate the other similar contracts (Zetterberg, Hossa, Pronger, etc.) and address the problem of the rising salaries in the new CBA. I’d hate for another lockout to take place because of stuff like this.
by Chris Marnell on Jul 21, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions





















