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Around SBN: Jeremy Lin Continues Rampage, New York Wins On Road

Per TSN's Darren Dreger, It's official.

There will be a 48 hour period for the Arbiter to rule whether or not the contract is legal or not. According to John, the 48 hour period does not kick in until both sides have agreed on a suitable arbiter.

Update: The NHLPA has released an official statement:

"The NHLPA has filed a grievance disputing the NHL's rejection of the Standard Player Contract between the New Jersey Devils and Ilya Kovalchuk. Under the terms of the CBA, the NHLPA and Mr. Kovalchuk are entitled to an expedited resolution of this matter. The NHLPA will have no further comment until this matter has been resolved by an Arbitrator."

over 1 year ago Trollvalchuk_tiny Kevin Sellathamby 110 comments 0 recs  | 

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NHLPA statement

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REJECTED ILYA KOVALCHUK STANDARD PLAYER CONTRACT
The National Hockey League Players’ Association (NHLPA) released the following statement today:

"The NHLPA has filed a grievance disputing the NHL’s rejection of the Standard Player Contract between the New Jersey Devils and Ilya Kovalchuk. Under the terms of the CBA, the NHLPA and Mr. Kovalchuk are entitled to an expedited resolution of this matter. The NHLPA will have no further comment until this matter has been resolved by an Arbitrator."

by Murdoc on Jul 26, 2010 1:39 PM EDT reply actions  

I added it. Thanks/.

In Lou We Trust: The system hates us, man.
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly

by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 26, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

And so it begins.

My gut tells me the rejection will be overturned.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 26, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s a shame that every side in the matter is taking it personally. No good will come of this. For anyone.

by Murdoc on Jul 26, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

This will be the beginning of bad things to come for the next 13 months until the next Armageddon

"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello

by Skuba7 on Jul 26, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

can't blame Kovy or the Devils.

the rules stand in the way of Kovy getting what he wants and the Devils getting what they want. I know I have been candid in my thoughts about the rules but the Devils and Kovy knew this was going to happen and now they are in the middle of it. I wish Kovy and the Devils the best. Not because the Devils are my team but because siple justice demands it.

A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.

by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 26, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

This process is gonna take forever.

"Don't worry about my cap" -Lou Lamoriello

by C.J. Richey on Jul 26, 2010 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Question...

Where did your “48 hour period to find an arbiter” info come from? I thought the language in the CBA indicated that the standing Arbiter would have 48 hours to rule. There is no Arbiter at this time, no?

Sounds to me like the NHLPA is trying squash any prolonged foot-dragging by the League when making arbiter suggestions in the statement that “the NHLPA and Mr. Kovalchuk are entitled to an expedited resolution of this matter.”

by Murdoc on Jul 26, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions  

I misread that statement. I’ve been doing all sorts of stuff today and I don’t think i read that statement correctly.

In Lou We Trust: The system hates us, man.
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly

by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 26, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

you had me all excited :(

by Murdoc on Jul 26, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I checked on the NHL site it doesn’t have any clarity on how long the league and PA have to find an arbitrator.

by KingHellfire on Jul 26, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

There should already be one, per the CBA. Since there isn’t, it appears as though the NHLPA and NHL each get to pick the Dean of a School, and then these Deans have 60 days to select one. Great news huh? 62 days at worst.

by Murdoc on Jul 26, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

i was just thinking this happened without seeing it cause i just went on capgeek and kovy’s contract is back on the devils roster haha

lets get him ready for next season!

by Devils1192 on Jul 26, 2010 1:45 PM EDT reply actions  

CapGeek never really removed the Kovalchuk contract — it has been there every time I’ve popped over to the site the last several days, such as when looking for numbers during arguments about “Who has the worst contract in hockey?”

Now that a grievance has been filed, Kovy is Devils’ property until the resolution of the arbitration process, whether ruled by an arbitrator or some sort of deal cut between all the parties.

by acasser on Jul 26, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, me too! Kovy’s deal never came off the books, we’ve been $1.8M Over the Cap for a week.
This is great and terrible news at the same time.

"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello

by Skuba7 on Jul 26, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh hahaha my baddd maybe hockeybuzz.com is what i was looking at

by Devils1192 on Jul 26, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I forget who pointed it out but obviously the Devils and the NHLPA would like to find an arbitrator as quick as possible… it’s the NHL who could delay things, but in doing so it would reek of sour eggs on their part.

by Zelepukin on Jul 26, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

the devils have no say in this process.

the NHL will absolutely delay as much as possible.

by Triumph44 on Jul 26, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

The NHLPA however has a say. If they think the NHL is dragging their feet they could take other legal action to force the issue.

by drhgzang on Jul 26, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

The NHLPA waited till the very last day to file a grievance.
So far they are the ones who have dragged this out.
Each side (the NHLPA and the League) selects a Dean of a Law school or a business school.
Those two deans then select an arbitrator

You may not be rooting for the League but come on.
Personally Im of the opinion that no matter what happenjs the fans are the ones that are going to lose.

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

The NHLPA didn’t “drag it out” they took the time they we’re allotted by the CBA. Im sure most lawyers would tell you this is a standard procedure/practice.

by drhgzang on Jul 26, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

From the CBS

48.5 (a) There shall be one System Arbitrator, appointed jointly by the parties, who shall serve for the duration of this Agreement; provided, however, that on February 1, 2007 and on each successive February 1, either party may discharge the System Arbitrator by serving written notice upon him and upon the other party by that date. The parties shall thereupon agree upon a successor System Arbitrator within the following sixty (60) days.

I am informed they didnt do that this year, or any previous year. so…..

Should the parties fail timely to agree upon said successor, each shall immediately designate the Dean of either a school of law or business and said two Deans shall, within sixty (60) days, jointly appoint a successor who satisfies the requirements of subparagraph (b) below. (b) The System Arbitrator to be appointed hereunder shall be an attorney with significant experience with matters requiring financial sophistication and business/accounting expertise and as an arbitrator or judge or other decider of contested proceedings.

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

From the CBA

apologies for the for the post fail

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

What does that have to do with the NHLPA “dragging” out the filing of an appeal. Both of these quotes indicate that it is the responsibility of both the NHLPA and the NHL to agree on an arbitrator. Clearly neither side did so by April 1st. How does that make the NHLPA solely responsible?

by drhgzang on Jul 26, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never said it did????

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

From above:

The NHLPA waited till the very last day to file a grievance.
So far they are the ones who have dragged this out.

by drhgzang on Jul 26, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Every step has a deadline.
Thus the only way to drag the process out is to take the full alloted amount of time to complete each step.
Triumph44 stated

the NHL will absolutely delay as much as possible.

The NHLPA had 5 days to file a grievance. They took 5 days to do so.
ILWT came to the conclusion in a matter of minutes.
Regardless of how you speculate how wisely they used the time means little. In fact I agree with you is assuming they used that time to build the best case possible)

That standard procedure/practice of taking every avalable moment and not reaching the next step before the prescribed deadline is known as dragging it out

Therefore my reply which you quote is referring to the point that the League has not shown any evidence of his claim and in fact the only party to do so has been from the NHLPA

Why you didnt reply to the comment there as the conversation has moved on, I dont know.
Furthermore how you jumped to the conclusion that I was placing the responsibility of finding an arbitrator soly on the NHLPA is mind-boggling.

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

In Lou We Trust is not a lawyer hired by the NHLPA. Taking most of the time allotted is a standard practice in the legal world. You might call it dragging it out but if its standard practice why are you surpirsed? The lawyers for the NHLPA want to be sure they are confident they can win, this means interviews and reading every inch of the CBA. Both the NHL and the NHLPA failed to appoint deans to select an arbitrator. That means they are both responsible for the lack of arbitrator.

by drhgzang on Jul 26, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im not surprised they took 5 days to do the obvious thing which only takes 45 minutes to do.
I will again state I think it was the right thing to do.

However it helps bring the point across that the NHL hasn’t been the reason and will not be the only reason this process gets dragged out.
And that was the argument at hand.

I understand the League is the enemy in this situation here @ ILWT, but to simply say the NHL alone will cause this to be a long process is false.

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

But at this point, there is no benefit for the NHLPA to have this take any more than 48 hours, does it? It would only potentially help the NHL to have this take as much time as possible.

"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello

by Skuba7 on Jul 26, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Regardless of our perspective of to whose benefit is to drag the process out, it still occurs.
Both parties are guilty of it. That was my point.

Please note:
I am not defending the NHL case in the contract dispute
nor am I
Accusing the NHLPS case in the contract dispute
Im simply saying both sides will cause this to go on longer than it actually need to.

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s not an outrageous thing to say. It’s also not necessarily a bad thing. The PA wanted to make sure everything was on the up-and-up and plan their case before filing, and it’s in both parties interest to get an arbitrator they both can agree upon to avoid a battling against a biased party.

Once the arbitrator is decided upon, the decision will be quick

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Jul 26, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder if that dose go on into September, the Devils are in quite a bind.

I assume Kovy is not currently included on the teams cap hit.
However the Devils will have to fill out a roster assuming he will be.
Also considering but not expecting for the possibility that the cap hit might be larger than expected.

If the Devils do not prepare for this, they run the risk of having to waive players at the very start of the season.
(Any team that lost its 1st few games of the season could take advantage of this)
the other danger is
If the Devils do prepare for this and they do not end up signing Kovy, (a small but possible outcome) they will be a team with a lot of cap space, but no players to sign.

It seems quite unfair

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, its not jumping to a conclusion, I said they weren’t dragging anything out. You quoted two paragraphs from the CBA about the deadline for an arbitrator. The deadline for the arbitrator being missed has nothing to do with Ilya Kovalchuk’s contract appeal since he signed the contract 3 and half months after both sides missed the deadline.

by drhgzang on Jul 26, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you continue to read the next reply you then see I apologized for the post fail.

Thus the mind-boggling wonderment of how quoting the CBA can then lead you to believe that despite what the quotes state you think Im blaming the NHLPA???

Are you simply looking to argue with anyone????

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

this sounds like this could take really, really long

technically speaking (at least the way i’m reading it), this could take up to 122 days to reach a decision. Here’s how I’m reading it:

Up to 60 days to agree on an arbitrator.
If no agreement is reached, two Deans shall be appointed immediately, and they will have another 60 days to appoint an arbitrator.
Once the arbitrator is appointed, they will have 2 days to come to a decision.

Although I highly doubt it takes 4 months to appoint an arbitrator, it does appear that that is the absolute limit on this process. Why they didn’t already have one in place, I have no idea (although I’m sure it has something to do with the chaos at the NHLPA).

Although I guess the “should the parties fail timely to agree upon said successor” could be construed as having already been reached, meaning they are already at the second stage.

by hocke26 on Jul 26, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

The two sides have to pick a Dean of a Law or Business school? Sounds sketchy, but you know Lou is pickin someone from Providence!

"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello

by Skuba7 on Jul 26, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lou dose not get to pick

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, my bad, wonder if anyone from a school within Hockey East will be involved, as per choices from the NHLPA and the NHL. If Im the NHLPA, I have at least one Dean from Hockey East where Lou is respected and admired.

"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello

by Skuba7 on Jul 26, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im sure the two deans will have severe opposing views. The challenge is for the two deans to decide together on one Arbitrator

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am not a betting man, but if I was I would bet that the NHLPAs dean dose live by the Lou philosophy of doing business!

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

They should get the dean from Animal House, that guy was awesome

There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis

by slackdog_rm on Jul 26, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I find it hard to believe that the NHL and the Devils couldn’t have already found an arbitrator, when they knew for 5 days that this situation was extremely likely. Odds are the arbitrator has already been assigned

ZachJac

by 3 already on Jul 26, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

The Devils couldn’t have found an arbitrator because it’s not up to them. The NHLPA and the NHL must agree to one. Since the PA didn’t file until today, they are now going to look for one.

Kevin, I think you should amend that in the FanShot. The 48-hour period kicks in when an arbitrator is agreed upon.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Jul 26, 2010 2:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

kevin already amended it; technically what he says here is not incorrect, just imprecise.

by Triumph44 on Jul 26, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just noticed. Thanks.

And thank you Kevin.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Jul 26, 2010 2:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

No problem.

In Lou We Trust: The system hates us, man.
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly

by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 26, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welp.

At least I’ll have another week or so of hockey news.

I suspect the NHL and the PA will have an arbitrator in place quickly. Delaying the arbitration will only make the league look even worse, and the PA wants this resolved quickly so IK can move on with his life.

My question: why did the PA wait so long to request arbitration?

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Jul 26, 2010 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

The deadline for filing the grievance is today. The NHLPA wanted to think this over carefully.

In Lou We Trust: The system hates us, man.
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly

by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 26, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really big decision?

It goes way beyond the IK contract and the decision of the arbiter will have significant implications for the whole league, League win or NHLPA. I suspect it wasn’t a decision that was made easily. I would imagine it was only after careful consideration, and likely the advice of several lawyers and/or independant arbiter organizations, that they determined a decision in their favor was likely and filed.

by Murdoc on Jul 26, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its typical in legal cases to take as much time as is allotted. They filed early afternoon just in case something stupid is wrong (e.g. font size) with the appeal, that way they can fix whatever they need to by the deadline.

by drhgzang on Jul 26, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry i did not link

They interviewed Grossman, Kovalchuk, LL and anyone who can help

by tcb16 on Jul 26, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, if you’re wondering, Guliti says that the hiring of the arbitrator will be started immediately.

In Lou We Trust: The system hates us, man.
"Pfft, Wii’s where it’s at. *Swings toy plastic racquet, separates shoulder"- RudyKelly

by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 26, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suspect the NHL and the PA will have an arbitrator in place quickly.

I don’t. I imagine each side has a short list of names to propose, likely guys they think are far more likely to rule for them than against them. Unless there’s a name in common on both lists, the NHLPA and the League can play this sort of gamesmanship for a while hoping the other side caves. Not too long, mind you, for risk of being painted as obstructionist, but the selection of an arbitrator is equivalent to defining the terrain on which you fight a battle in wartime. It can have long-lasting ramifications, if not the ability to decide the outcome outright.

My question: why did the PA wait so long to request arbitration?

I imagine it has something to do with assembling the case the way they wish to present it, figuring out a short list of arbitrators to ask for, etc. I also wouldn’t be surprised if there were talks behind the scenes, trying to find another resolution outside the arbitration process.

by acasser on Jul 26, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interviews

They had to do their homework

by tcb16 on Jul 26, 2010 2:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes. Since the contract’s rejection is being challenged, Kovy is still bound to the Devils by the contract. However, he is not entitled to any of the benefits in it.

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

This just in from Eklund: Sources are telling him that they have agreed on an arbitrator…(drum roll please)…

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 2:26 PM EDT reply actions  

It’s Paul The Octopus!

Sorry, I didn’t mean to post without that.

So, anyway, does this mean I can stop refreshing every blog for news a million times a day?

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Darnit!

And here I was hoping they’d bring back the monkey from the short-lived Fox “reality” show “My Big Fat Obnoxious Boss”.

by acasser on Jul 26, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

No way. A monkey is a primate, and for fear of losing this battle, Bettman won’t allow an arbitrator with an intellectual capacity as high as a monkey. The highest he’s willing to go is a cephalopod. That cephalopod will be Paul, if we’re lucky, since he seems to be the smartest cephalopod of them all.

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

You must not have seen the show. Not surprising, since it ran for half of its season and was then cancelled. I saw the remainder about a year or two back on Fox Reality Channel, and they let us “peek behind the curtain” in the finale.

Eliminations were done by selecting two of the “contestants”, having them defend themselves (a la the Apprentice, considering “Obnoxious Boss” was a parody of said show), and then having the off-screen CEO “make his decision”. The decision was simply the monkey in question spinning a wheel, where half of the territory was one contestant and half was the other.

by acasser on Jul 26, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see. So that’s how this process works…

I guess it’s going to take a while to get this arbitrator. I hear the monkey wants a huge long term contract.

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate Bill Daly

I can almost hear that smug lil …

“The grievance is not surprising or unexpected. We welcome the opportunity to establish our position before the arbitrator,” NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly told NHL.com.

by Murdoc on Jul 26, 2010 2:37 PM EDT reply actions  

How does the NHL have a case?

I have heard the arguements of the NHLPA and Kovy but I am interested to see what evidence does the NHL have other than accusations?

by Dylan Sudek on Jul 26, 2010 2:43 PM EDT reply actions  

They don’t need anything more than accusations. Such is the nature of the beast in the way the CBA is written.

I’m afraid it’s going to come down to one or more related questions that will need to be answered. “I understand that salary structure and term of the contract of contention are persuant to the guidelines set forth in the CBA as signed by the NHL and the NHLPA. What is the purpose of these 5 years at the end of this contract, and why is Player only being paid current league minimum for those 5 years?”

If that question can reasonably be answered by the Devils, Player or Player representation, the case is over in favor of the NHLPA. If it cannot, the NHL wins.

by Murdoc on Jul 26, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think it can be answered by saying that, if you look at players in the twighlights of their careers, they get paid far less than they did in their primes. And in this regard, those Hossa and Pronger deals now help in another way. Sure, they show precedence for accepting these types of contracts. But if the Devils use the reason I just gave, then Hossa and Pronger also show that teams pay great players at old age very close to the salary in the final five years of Kovy’s deal.

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

…and Luongo, let’s not forget him, he will actually be 43 when his contract ends…

"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello

by Skuba7 on Jul 26, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting note

I was looking at Selanne’s stats today. 40 years old. 27 goals last year, 48 points. Seems a reasonable argument to make that a player still capable of that type of production at that age is worth the present league minimum, and probably could put up decent numbers until 44. And Selanne and Kovalchuk are similar players.

by R Train on Jul 26, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve been searching this series of tubes called the “internet” that all these dang kids use today, but I can’t find any detailed information on how this arbitration process works. Though there’s info on how it plays out with regard to presenting evidence, there are a couple of things I’d like to know (these are questions regarding the actual arbitration, not the process for picking the arbitrator):

1. How many people are involved in the process? How many people will be in that room with the arbitrator?

2. Is the arbitration carried out in complete sercrecy? Is there anything public? Any information that might be released during the process?

I’d appreciate any answers.

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

1. CBA refers to “Systems Arbitrator.” That’s One. Add anyone the arbitrator wishes to talk to. Likely to include Player, Team, Player Representation, League representation, some number of lawyers representing any of those participants, maybe a couple of girls in short skirts to bring drinks (if I was the Arbiter, that’d be one of my “musts”). The answer, One plus however many the Arbiter needs to make a decision. I doubt it will be a formal “courtroom” setting where particiapnts would sit, politely wiating their turn to speak while listening to everyone involved. But it could be I guess.

2. LOL. Transparency in the NHL does not exist. The only things we’ll know are when they find the arbiter and when the decision has been made. Some stuff may get leaked at some point, but I wouldn’t trust anything that comes from anyone but the Princilples in the Arbitration.

by Murdoc on Jul 26, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

With regard to point 1…I understand that, at certain points, various people will be present to be interviewed and what not. What I mean is: who will be the main players? The people who are there the whole time, and who work through the whole process? Obviously the arbitrator will be there. Will Bettman be there for the NHL? Daly? Will Lamoriello be there for the Devils? Vanderbeek?

I’m sure nobody knows for sure, but I’m curious.

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is there not already an arbitrator in place?

The CBA seems to imply there is supposed to be an arbitrator in place. Doesn’t the lack of one provide yet more evidence on how screwed up the NHL and NHLPA are in terms of their relationship? How can this CBA be in place for multiple years but no arbitrator be named and be “on standby”

Or did I misread the info that has been posted and is this process the way the thing should work?

by Devilssection21fan on Jul 26, 2010 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

If they did have one ready at all times, that person could not be allowed to ever go on vacation or get sick or do anything but be on the constant Defcon 1 alert. If an arbitrator is chosen and then cant work, (lets say he/she gets sick and has to go to the hospital) then we are really in a mess.

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 26, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is correct. It does seem as though both the NHLPA and the NHL are in breach of the CBA because there is no Arbiter as required by the CBA, nor have they designated Deans of the appropriate types of schools to appoint one. Unfortuantely for Mr. Kovalchuk and the NJ Devils, this could conceivably take the action here to the end of September, since these Deans would have 60 days to select the Arbiter, then the 48 hour window for decision would occur.

I wonder…could this lack of an Arbiter be an “out” for the Devils, legally? Obtain an injunction to prevent the League from acting under these clauses since neither the League nor the NHLPA adhered to the CBA 48.5?

by Murdoc on Jul 26, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, 48.5 doesn’t actually specify any penalties for failing to do these things. Plus, for all we know, those Deans were already selected.

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now that I think about it…The question of whether the Devils could get an injunction is interesting. Perhaps if the NHL tries to drag its feet for as long as possible, the Devils could try and prove that the NHL is trying to punish the team by impeding the process outlined in the CBA. Since the CBA is a contract agreed upon by everyone involved, the NHL would be in breach of this contract if they try to punish the Devils by deliberately avoiding the terms of the contract that is the CBA.

Is there a lawyer in the house? Am I correct on this?

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Point. But that’s the kind of vaguity…vagueness…unclarity…whatever…that got us into this pickle in the first place. It is required by the CBA. The “shall” is a biggie. At least it is when I write contracts at work. And the didn’t. Making that section of the CBA impossible to enforce in a timely basis, or at least as timely as an Arbiter decision in 48 leads me to believe is the intent of the process.

Ugh, there’s that intent term again. I’m going home for a beer.

Worst Case: Assuming the deans are selected already, and 60 days to select an arbiter starts now, and weekends count, that puts an Arbiter decision on Sept 26.

by Murdoc on Jul 26, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

they only select the deans if they cannot agree on an arbitrator themselves

by Triumph44 on Jul 26, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

which means they will be selecting deans ;)

"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello

by Skuba7 on Jul 26, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, but I think the question is: is there not an arbitrator in place right now because they could not agree on one prior to this whole saga? The CBA seems to say that there should always be one in place. So why isn’t there one? If the process of deciding on one has already started before this whole dispute, at what point does the process stand right now?

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Worst case

The real worst case scenerio involves not only a delay until Sept 26, but a decision that goes against the Devils and the NHLPA. In this case Buttman could fine the Devils, and this fine would go against next years cap. In addition the league could take away draft picks. It is totally up to Buttman and his whims and the Devils have no recourse. This is the potential hammer over our heads that may keep other teams from formulating such contracts.

by DevilsDDS on Jul 26, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is not true. Those are penalties described only in 26.13 and as I’ve written at length on Friday, those provisions aren’t applicable.

The worst case scenario is that Kovalchuk becomes a UFA and signs elsewhere. That’s it.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Jul 26, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tom Gulitti reports today in Fire and Ice

“According to the Article 26.13© of the CBA, if the system arbitrator finds that a circumvention has been committed by the club, the commissioner has the power to impose of fine of up to $5 million in cases of circumvention of the salary cap. The CBA also reads that "if such a fine is assessed against a club, that club’s payroll room shall also be reduced by such amount for the following league year. …Bettman could also direct the Devils to forfeit draft picks and the number, year and placement of which would all be at the commissioner’s discretion.”

Sorry, I don’t know how to place the link

by DevilsDDS on Jul 26, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

story here

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by FrankG929 on Jul 26, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I’ve stated on Friday how 26.13 doesn’t apply based on the CBA itself.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Jul 26, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a question that got lost in the shuffle above…

If there are any lawyers in the house, this one is for you:

If the NHL tries to drag its feet for as long as possible, can the Devils get an injunction? If they could prove that the NHL is trying to punish the team by impeding the process outlined in the CBA? Since the CBA is a contract agreed upon by everyone involved, the NHL would be in breach of this contract by deliberately trying to delay the process that the CBA proscribes. Is that possible?

Since the owners, PA, and league all agreed to the CBA, is the CBA legally a binding contract?

by Dr. Witticism on Jul 26, 2010 4:12 PM EDT reply actions  

good question

I thought about the same thing the other day, relating to when Lou got an injunction after the Schoenfeld incident, but I think – certainly don’t know for sure – that when a club agrees to be part of a league, it agrees to live by the rules and not to challenge their validity in an outside court. Likewise I assume they have agreed to be bound by the arbitrators decision, like it or not.

I would love to be a fly on the wall at these hearings. I assume Lou has his end covered, but from Daly’s comments it seems like the NHL is loaded for bear as well. As I posted before, I think this is a feeling out process. Lou pushed the limit with the league, the league pushed to see if the PA would defend these contracts, the PA responded that it will defend the players, and now I think everyone is waiting to see how this test case boils down as it will have major ramifications on next years FA crop.

by R Train on Jul 26, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

and by the way

those are just my thoughts following up on your question. I am not a lawyer – heck, I’ve never even been sued yet!

by R Train on Jul 26, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

whats the %

what is the % that kovy could be a devil, once this is done?

PS3: J-CAMPS

by J-camps on Jul 26, 2010 6:04 PM EDT reply actions  

130%

There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis

by slackdog_rm on Jul 26, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

102%

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by FrankG929 on Jul 26, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

117%

Its his favorite number :)

" I don't go to work.... I go to a game" - Bob Sheppard RIP

by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 26, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is anyone else as irritated as I am that the Kings are still allegedly making noise about signing Kovalchuk even though he’s technically under contract to the Devils until this matter is resolved?

by kellyn on Jul 26, 2010 6:16 PM EDT reply actions  

That’s okay, when the contract gets upheld we could use the draft picks.

There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis

by slackdog_rm on Jul 26, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

If it’s just “sources” saying that, then no problem. If Lombardi comes right out and says he’s interested, then there’s a potential problem.

Right now, I’d just wait to see what happens with arbitration.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Jul 26, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

The most recent source is Alexander Frolov’s Russian agent, but various sources have been saying the same thing for several days, which leads me to believe it’s true. I just wish they would back off and wait for the arbitration to be over.

by kellyn on Jul 26, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, in other words, no, there’s nothing actually certain from any outlets. Just “sources.”

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Jul 26, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lou probably has version 2 of the deal projecting out 15 years waiting at Grossmans office on the off chance he loses the arbitration. Lou is no dummy. He had that whole dog and pony show last week even when he knew the league would reject the deal. But he got Kovy to say in front of all the media in the world that he wanted to be a Devil for life, and Jay Grossman gushed about Lou and the Devils. If the contract ultimately has to be tweeked, who cares, that will be a footnote.

And didn’t it come out that the Kings best deal was 80/15 after three rounds of negotiating? The Devils deal was far better.

by R Train on Jul 26, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

And didn’t it come out that the Kings best deal was 80/15 after three rounds of negotiating? The Devils deal was far better.

I understand that, and even agree with you. I just find it bothersome that Kings allegedly feel the need to express their continued interest in Kovalchuk to third-party sources despite the fact that he’s technically Devils property until this entire matter is resolved.

by kellyn on Jul 26, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it comes from this statement on LAKingsInsider:

Dean Lombardi said tonight that the Kings would remain interested in signing Kovalchuk should the opportunity present itself, but it’s likely that the union will get involved and seek to uphold the deal.

Dean also stated that he thought the deal was legal under the terms of the CBA. Also, just as a sidenote, Dean loves Lou because when Dean was working for the Flyers Lou brought him into his office and gave him advice on how to handle his next GM stint. I always thought that was pretty cool of Lou.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on Jul 27, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lou’s good like that – helpful to those who are willing to listen and could use it.

Of course, the moment you cross him, he’ll be your worst nightmare.

Going back to the rumor: That’s no surprise (or tampering). If the opportunity does present itself, Kovalchuk would be an UFA in that opportunity and could sign with LA or anyone. He’ll be hated for sometime here but it is his right as an UFA.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Jul 27, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Executive Director

Isn’t the NHLPA still searching for an executive director? Does anybody know what impact this vacancy may have on the upcoming arbitration?

by DevilsDDS on Jul 26, 2010 6:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I just thought of something.

Everyone keeps bringing up Kovalchuk’s age when the contract expires as a reason it is illegal, since not many players make it into their 40’s. The real number that should be used as a comparison should be the number of players that have retired in their late 30’s (38, 39) and 40’s while they still had significant term (more than 1 year) left on their contract. I don’t know how you would be able to find these numbers, but it would give you a much better picture then just saying that X percentage of all NHL players play until they were 43. The main number to consider would be the percentage of players that retired while they still had the opportunity to play, because let’s face it; most players would like to keep playing when they retire, they just have to retire/change leagues because no teams want them.

There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis

by slackdog_rm on Jul 26, 2010 7:49 PM EDT reply actions  

The post was supposed to read...

So many people bring up that Kovalchuk will be 43 when the contract expires and they claim that is why the contract will be voided because he will retire before hand. They bring up the low percentage of players that play into their 40’s as their “proof”.
The real number that would be of any use here is the number of players in their late 30’s (37, 38, 39) and 40’s who retired when they still had significant term left on their contracts (more than one year left). This would be a much better guage because most players retire not because they want to, but because no other teams want them. Look at McAmmond, he wanted to play and almost retired last year only because no teams were calling.
I know this number would be hard to find, but it would be a much better way to see if the contract can be completed. In this case you are seeing players who can still play but don’t want to, as apposed to what normally happens.

There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis

by slackdog_rm on Jul 26, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

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