Fighting Homophobia in Hockey Must Come from the Fans as well as the League
Derek Zona at the Copper & Blue wrote a important post about the serious issue of homophobia and anti-gay bigotry in hockey today. It is an absolute must-read. If you haven't read it, stop here, and go read it. It is a powerful piece of writing, and it makes the strong case for the NHL and the NHLPA to take initiative in combating the bigotry of those who aren't heterosexuals. Read the comments too, they go in depth of the complexities of the issue.
While reading it myself, one of the parts of the post really stuck out the most to me, and ultimately led me to write this post:
While it's a good sign that people at all levels in the NHL have begun to speak out, this isn't limited to professional hockey. The anti-gay culture is pervasive throughout all levels of hockey and it's not likely to change any time soon without a giant push in the right direction from the NHL. There are still over 15,000 near-adults playing higher-level amateur hockey in North America. Of those, some 3,500 are playing Major Junior or NCAA Hockey. As sure as Brian Burke is that there are gay men in professional hockey, I'm sure that there are many times that number in the amateur ranks. Yet these kids are left on their own, far from home, far from any support system, invariably alone, a gay kid playing a sport in which gay men are reviled, living in fear of being discovered. There is nowhere to go, no one to talk to, and nowhere to turn but inside themselves, and that loneliness and fear almost certainly impacts their on-ice performance and, to a greater extent, their careers.
With all due respect to Derek, I think the issue goes even far further than just players. The culture not only dissuades gay players from coming out or even getting involved, but it would certainly affect those in other positions: management, trainers, coaches, and scouts among others. And you can definitely believe it affects fans of the game at all levels.
I fully agree with his call for a top-down approach, imploring the NHL and the PA to both publicly and privately make an concerted effort to combat such bigotry. I would like to argue that there also needs to be a bottom-up approach. Basically, fighting this kind of hate needs to come from us, the fans, as much as it does have to come from the league, the union, and the teams. And I believe the first step - perhaps the most important step - is something we can do by ourselves and right away.
Let me start off with an obvious statement: No one is born a hockey fan, much less a player. We're all introduced to the sport in some way or form. We learn about it from our families. We see it on TV. We read about it in the paper or online. We hear about it on the radio. A friend tells us about the sport. We go to a game and see for ourselves. And so forth. By whatever means, we all have our own experiences that led to be hockey fans and to be fans of the New Jersey Devils.
Would we be fans of hockey, much less the Devils, if the atmosphere was not welcoming? That there was a sense of intolerance of who we are by other fans of the team/sport? For many, it's certainly a deal-breaker. Why should I spend any time, money, or other resources supporting a team or being part of a fanbase that seemingly doesn't accept me for who I am?
And while I can't speak for anyone, I certainly wouldn't be. So let me ask some difficult questions. Why would a gay person want to play the game if the banter in the locker room is disparaging of homosexuals, as if same-sex relations are a bad thing? How can anyone at any level of the game at any position on any team possibly think about coming out of the closet if being gay is the subject of derision and insult?
Honestly, I don't know. Anyone who has put up with this has far more courage and tolerance of the intolerant than one can count. What I do know is that it all contributes to an unwelcoming atmosphere.
Let me be cynical for a bit and talk about business in terms of how bad an unwelcoming atmosphere can be. As fans, we claim to support the team. Here, I think it's fair to say that most of us support the New Jersey Devils. Would anyone be a fan of the Devils if it wasn't enjoyable to go watch a game? No. It is in the team's best interest to create as enjoyable of a time as possible for the people who go to games. Yet, what does an unwelcoming atmosphere do for a minority of the people who go to games? It would certainly keep them from coming to games, and they'll certainly tell other people to not go to games. Given how many people know a friend, a co-worker, a roommate, a family member, or others who are gay, that's potentially a lot of people being told about said unwelcome atmosphere. That's toxic in terms of public image and by virtue of people staying away from games, it can cut into revenue.
It's no coincidence that the Devils' pre-game announcements includes statements about how fans should see an usher if their "enjoyment of the game" is being compromised. The Devils, like any other organization, want everyone to be welcomed. The business is undercut when there is some kind of an unwelcoming attitude, perceived or otherwise, towards anyone. Therefore, I don't see how anyone can honestly claim to support the Devils or any other team and be a bigot and contribute to a phenomenon that very well may hurt the Devils or any other team financially. That's not support at all.
However, I've heard the rationalizations from others about such sentiment and insults at games. "It's just juvenile." "The context isn't bigoted." "It's just banter." "Who honestly cares, he/she is just a kid." "They aren't using the f-word; don't be so P.C." "It's traditional to yell Flyers/Gomez Swallows." No matter what it is, it's just an excuse that does nothing to address the problem, much less solve it. One person may think it's just immaturity to disparage an opposing player as gay, but the person next to him or in the row or section over may feel it's an unsaid message: "Don't come here. We don't like your kind here." Even referring the player as effeminate (e.g. Cindy Crosby - ring any bells, anyone?) or a metrosexual (e.g. Sean Avery) isn't the same thing as calling them gay - it's just close enough for certain people to pick up on that subtlety.
I don't doubt some if it based on (a lot of) immaturity, but it only furthers the unsaid message that it's bad to be gay, and that hockey/the Devils/some other sport or team isn't for gays. That's unacceptable.
Can I claim to be so above all of this? Not really. Do I take part in such juvenile-at-best, hateful-at-worst talk at games? No. Of course not. Such talk and feelings is wrong and unacceptable. Do I always say anything about it when I hear it at games? Unfortunately, no. I have had my own rationalizations from time to time at Devils games: "I don't want to start any trouble." "He or she isn't going to listen to me anyway." "I didn't quite catch who said it." "It's only some kid, he'll grow out of it" "It's been a long day, can't I just watch the game and ignore this garbage?" "I can't tell thousands of people to stop yelling 'Rangers Suck' in Devils games against teams who aren't the Rangers; much say anything about Flyers/Gomez swallows." As much as I don't approve of it and as much as I write here about how odious it is, I can't say I'm helping the situation by being silent. Claiming that it's just the crowd and I'm not the crowd despite being among the crowd is nothing more than an excuse.
Therefore, here's my simple proposal that any one of us can do at any part of the arena at any level: speak out.
If you hear someone at a game - at the Rock, at your local rink, in your locker room - say anything disparaging or insulting involving being gay, or how the player/team is gay, or similar talk - speak out to that someone. Let me emphasize the speaking out to that someone part. Here's a suggested list of what to focus on if you're not sure:
- Tell them that it's hateful.
- Tell them that it's wrong.
- Tell them to leave that garbage at home.
- Tell them that you're offended.
- Tell them that it offends others.
- Tell them it paints a bad picture of the fanbase.
- Tell them it makes them look incredibly stupid.
- Tell them it hurts the team.
- Tell them it hurts the sport.
- Tell them it's just inappropriate in public.
- Tell them to grow up.
- Tell them to please stop saying such things.
Tell them in the stands, on the concourse, outside the arena, Tell them one-on-one, perhaps during intermission or at some point and let them know privately. Just tell them some how, some way, something about their ignorance. Ultimately, simply speak out against the hate.
At a minimum, you can at least say you've said your piece. It may not be much, and it's not guaranteed to stop anything. However, the current method of sitting by and being silently disgusted isn't doing anything either. Who knows, maybe the offender will actually listen, wisen up, and consider the man or woman nearby may be a fan or become a fan - and it's OK if they are gay. That's the ideal and I'm not so naive to believe that such a change will happen immediately; it doesn't mean an effort shouldn't be made.
But it can be the start of something. Again, perhaps I'm being too starry-eyed here, but people who play hockey tend to go to hockey games too. If it is possible to firmly establish that homophobia and anti-gay bigotry is unacceptable in the stands, the people who are players or will become players could carry that attitude into the locker room and into the offices. I know I'm reaching here, but I don't see how that's impossible logic. My main point is that changing the culture of the fans can help change the culture elsewhere.
I'm not asking you to make a huge scene everytime you hear something. I'm not saying you need to lecture someone. I'm not asking you to act as a Thought Police (though I would recommend sic'ing an usher/security on anyone who doesn't stop yelling that garbage). I'm not asking for society to completely change or for mountains to move overnight. What I'm asking is simple: say something about someone's bigotry to their face so they know that you, as a supporter and as a person, do not approve. Something that can be said in as little as a sentence, not even a minute long. That's all. Certainly seems simple to me.
As much as the NHL and the union and the teams may speak out against homophobia and reach out to various gay communities (as they should) per Dereks' post, I don't think they can't fully control what gets said in the stands. That's OK, because we do. We are the fans who sit in those stands. We buy the tickets, the food, the merchandise, and the privilege to watch our favorite team. We create the atmosphere and we lead the best chants. Quite frankly, the sport isn't what it is without us.
Therefore, we can and should use our voices to police ourselves as necessary. We should stand with those who represent and support our team regardless of who they want to sleep with. The crowd is us, and we should take responsibility in supporting the ideal that hockey is truly for everyone who is interested in the game on any level regardless of sexuality, race, creed, class, national origin, and other categorization. In conjunction with league and team action, the effort in reaching that ideal would be that much stronger and make it much more possible.
It may not be much, I'll at least make this simple effort and I hope that you will join me in it by speaking out against hate in hockey.
Thanks for reading. Please let me know your thoughts on what else can be done by fans like myself at Devils games or any other games of other hockey teams at any level that can combat bigotry. What do you think the Devils or any team should do? I put this under Devils Issues & Views, but it really affects anyone at the amateur, minor pro, high school, junior, college, and all other levels of the game. All the same, please leave your thoughts in the comments.
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Glad you brought this over from C&B. I was commenting on it on their site, I think the best place for acceptance to come thru will be professional sports. No where is the notion of ‘machismo’ and ‘hyper-masculinity’ more prevalent than in North American Pro sports. Hence, no better place for tolerance to come from.
Even if it only stays within sport, just getting to some level of tolerance should be seen as a goal. Well, at least I see it as a goal, I could be dead wrong and perhaps it’s not the goal.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
I think its A goal, but making it THE goal would be a much more difficult premise. Reason being, if there are several goals, the standard for reaching any one of them would most likely be lower than the singular goal.
In any event, Pro Sports is where to start the process. It reaches out to the largest audience that could be swayed with what their ‘idols’ have to say.
Im glad that we are deciding to take the fight against homophobia to every aspect of life we can. Homophobia is essentially racism and needs to fought. Even if you arent gay, like myself, I still want everyone to have equal rights and chances. This is a very good cause and I hope that we can accomplish it.
By “Even if you arent gay, like myself” I meant that I am NOT gay, but I still believe in trying to get equal rights and opportunities for everyone.
by Jacob Shepherd on Jul 7, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
not that there’s anything wrong with that…
by JoePa'sNotDead on Jul 8, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I know. I was just clarifying, I didnt really need to though. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay.
by Jacob Shepherd on Jul 8, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
The 80's
I remember going to Devil games in the 80’s and it could be because it was so long ago I don’t remember the homophobia as much as I hear it today. Back then it wasn’t uncommon to hear very interesting sayings or new words to learn but today is different. I sit up top usually and people insult Devil fans up there also along with anyone else. I just think people should focus on the sport not on the crowd or homophobic insults.
John your example of having to hear Rangers Suck all the time, I can’t stand it for example when we are playing the Flyers in the playoffs is just stupid. Unless we are playing them why worry about them, Rangers fans are not worried about us.
Two great articles.
C’mon man, “Suck” has nothing to do with being gay. You’ve gotta know that. When people say “You rule,” it has nothing to do with a monarchy nor does “You rock,” imply being a member of a band. This is a leap I’m not willing to take. Even my damn dictionary lists the common vernacular/slang definition of the word as “unacceptible or inadequate.” You’re the one making the jump to take that and apply it to a sex act, one practiced by both the homo- and hetero-sexual communities.
I’m still shocked by why this is a big deal though. Living in the NY Metro area my whole life may taint the perspective a little, but aside from the handful of crazies still putting white laces in their big black boots, are that many people still on the intolerant side of the issue? I’ve got more than one gay dude in my inner circle of friends (they pretty much universally hate the term homosexual, they say it makes it sound like a disease that can be cured), and they are the first people to say, “Awe c’mon man, don’t be such a fag.”
The good ole USofA protects your right to say just about anything you want, and for better or worse, even hatespeach is protected. If someone wants to open their mouth and broadcast the fact that they are some sort of imbecile, intollerant, bigotted douche, that’s their right. They just have to deal with the consequences. I’m a supporter of those rights…free speach and a guys right to punch you in the stupid mouth for using racial slurs, homophobic rhetoric, or saying something nasty about his momma.
Also on a more legal front, you may not want to expose yourself, or apply some sort of disclaimer to your request to have people say things to others when they use these kinds of terms.
(/sarcasm on) You may or may not be aware, but there is a certain segment of the hockey population that feels really strongly about some racial and homosexual issues. (/sarcasm off)
If you are unlucky enough to interject your “Excuse me sir, I don’t thinks appropriate language in public, it also hurts the sport.” into the conversation of one of these more rigid thinkers, you could easily find yourself with a fist in your throat. I’m not saying speaking up is the wrong thing to do, but we do kinda live in a society where taking a stand like that could get a person hurt. And after suggesting such a thing, such a person could attempt to hold you legally liable for the physical damage, pain and suffering endured.
Murdoc, with all due respect, I think you need to read this again.
First: My problem with the chant with respect to homophobia isn’t the suck part. Suck has been largely accepted for the past few decades. Its the Swallows part – it’s hateful at worst and stupid & juvenile at best.
Second: Your “concerns” are not very well founded. I’m almost certain that if someone got hit at the Rock, the one committing battery would be thrown out. Moreover, at no point here did I advocate incitement. I’m advocating using my speech to tell others that their bigotry is terrible and inappropriate. I didn’t say they have no right; but that doesn’t mean it has to be accepted.
Often times taking a stand means taking some risk, but that’s why its called taking a stand instead of sitting around.
W
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jul 8, 2010 10:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Often times taking a stand means taking some risk, but that’s why its called taking a stand instead of sitting around.
I’m with ya here bro.
The topic justs tends to get me a little upset, and I find it a little diffcult to verbalize such an array of feelings. There’s a certain amount of eye-opening that happens when a friend of 15 years picks you as the guy he tells first. I mean, it isn’t like the rest of the gang was shocked to disbelief when it happened, but it was still the kind of thing that changes an outlook or two. He’s still the same guy, and it was great to go out to a bar and know we weren’t lookin to bring home the same girl.
Professional sports are a hard nut to crack. There are certain sports that just lend themselves to macho or “manliness,” and certain segments of the population can’t deal with it when a guy they’ve admired is found out to happen to rather date dudes than chicks. And OMG the horror! if he happens to have a jersey with his name on the back. Maybe everyone will think I’m gay too!!OneEleven.
I don’t know. it sure would be great if the whole damn human race would just get past this kind of stuff, and starting here sure as hell would be starting in one of the harder spots, I guess it would be easier to roll downhill.
(and I only mentioned the legal thing because I’ve been part of one such suit, and while you didn’t incite anyone to do anything dumb, you are encouraging people to say something, and some slimeball lawyer could not only target the fellow committing the battery, he could also target you for encouraging the person to say something in the first place. Trust me, I know it blows, its just the world we live in. “What? I’m responsible for my own actions? No wai!”)
OK. Apologies for my gruff response. It honestly didn’t cross my mind as a possibility.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jul 8, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Why make this about homophobia?
Obviously, there is a bit of a problem with vulgarity at games. But why single out the homosexual references? There’s plenty of other references that folks find troublesome such as the emphasis on the “666” aspect of the team’s name, other sexual references that are not gay, diminishing another team’s fan with any kind of insult and sometimes people are just drunk and rude for the sake of it. When I took my St. Louis born wife to a game we had a guy bent on insulting St. Louis and of course he knew nothing about our fair city.
I’d prefer to focus on developing a classy and respectful atmosphere at the Rock. Homophobic is such a politically bent term – for one very few persons show any kind of true “phobia” and the word is used to attack anyone who has a moral opposition to homosexuality, regardless of how charitable they are to homosexuals. The last thing the league needs is a PC agenda taking our attention from the hockey being played.
That being said of course fans should not harass or say things that isolate and upset one group of people including homosexuals.
Why single this out? Did you honestly read Derek’s post and my post? In both, multiple reasons are provided as to why this is an important issue. This comment alone is another example, you agree that no one shroud say harassing things but not after far many more words lamenting this focus on homophobia.
Regarding the term, it and the larger issue, are certainly not politically bent. It’s about respecting your fellow man and woman; here specifically being at the rink and the stands surrounding them. That’s not political, that’s not being P.C., and telling some moron at the game to keep his bigotry to him or her self doesn’t take away from the game of hockey.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jul 8, 2010 10:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Another example - Don't think so
Its one thing to argue that there are good reasons for focusing on the issue but another to see my post as another example. I’m objecting to the use of the term homophobia. The term homophobia is often used to slander people with a different opinion on homosexuality and its use is a problem as much as the gay insults are a problem. Consider the words of the late Richard Neuhaus, a nationally recognized scholar: “…the (homosexual) activist literature is typically cruel and slanderous in its explanation of why most people have negative views of homosexuality. Anything other than the "correct" view of homosexuality is attributed to "homophobia," which is consistently described as the result of bigotry, ignorance, and the fear of one’s own sexuality.”
Lets be clear, it is a political word and has been used for some of the worst of political slander and attacks.
This isn’t a religious issue. Don’t try to make it one.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
No its about harassment and slander
Homophobe is a word used to slander, that’s my argument. lets be respectful to all.
If you read the post, you’ll find that I’ve also referred such behavior as anti-gay bigotry and similar terms. Which it very much is, regardless of the source.
Since my likelihood of changing your mind on the term homophobia looks to be about zero; please feel free to mentally change the word in your mind to whatever makes you feel more “comfortable.” The main point is the same: the sport would be far better off without this bigotry and it’s not going to be eliminated unless we, the fans, are active against it as well as the leagues, teams, players, and staff.
OK?
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jul 8, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It Matters How You Achieve Your Goal
I understood your point the first time I read your article and appreciate the manner in which you run this blog. However, It matters how you achieve your goal and using hate language such as homophobe and suggesting that someone who disagrees with you is another example only magnifies the problem.
ok, that's enough
The implication that the word ‘homophobe’ is somehow hate speech is preposterous. It’s a rather slick turn of phrase – taking the term used to describe those who discriminate and claiming it’s a discriminatory term. The problem is, in order to be a ‘homophobe’ you have to ACTIVELY FEAR OR DISCRIMINATE against gay people. Perhaps the word is used too quickly at times, but calling the word homophobia hate speech is like calling the word racist hate speech – it’s a term used to describe those who fear/hate/discriminate. Don’t try to flip it and turn the abuser into the victim.
by richer44 on Jul 9, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Don't Miss the Distinction
The term is used to describe anybody who disagrees with the gay activist agenda. Some people deserve the label but many do not.
The expanded meaning the term has been given is hate speech. Its used by activists like Andrew Sullivan to slander whomever they choose by attacking their very person, motives and psychological well being. If all it referred to was irrational fear and truly hateful bigotry I would agree with you.
Please read that Newsweek article, the violence and hate towards people that simply disagree with gay marriage is very real. You can’t flip it and turn an abuser into a victim if the person in question was never an abuser in the first place.
that’s because those who disagree with the ‘gay activist agenda’ actively advocate discrimination against gay people – which is the dictionary definition of homophobia, and constitutes bigotry. That some who participate in such bigotry are themselves assaulted is unfortunate, but it does not validate their position.
I can’t imagine Fischer wanted this post to be a political forum, so I won’t go any further. I WILL say, though, that pejorative use of terms of sexual orientation – which I won’t repeat – should be and are considered just as offensive as racial or ethnic epithets in the context of a hockey game and need to be treated as such. The implication that the use of sexual epithets is a matter of ‘decorum’ or ‘politeness’ lumps them in with language that is not openly offensive or discriminatory towards an entire class of people.
The term is used to describe anybody who disagrees with the gay activist agenda. Some people deserve the label but many do not.
No, the term is more commonly used to describe those who are bigoted. Which is how I used it in this article.
I can’t imagine Fischer wanted this post to be a political forum, so I won’t go any further.
You’re absolutely right. As I stated earlier – this is not a political issue, this is not about one side versus the other, and this place isn’t the place for it.
This digression ends here for all people involved. Thank you.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
ho-mo-pho-bia
Main Entry: ho·mo·pho·bia
Pronunciation: \ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə\
Function: noun
Date: 1969
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
Maybe the best approach
There’s one point that I don’t want you to miss. It may be that approaching the whole issue from a larger context is the best way to achieve your goal and root out other problems as well. It seems that much of the insults, such as the ones at Gomez are more about vulgarity and insulting the player than straight forward hatred towards gays. Many people who act this way would just choose a different insult. Unfortunately, we’ve allowed the vulgar attitudes of some to slide by for far too long of a time. Its part of the sport’s fan base to speak this way, just read some of the blogs, especially the Blues SBN blog. They even warn you a bout their language when you go there.
If we encourage better respect for all persons, discourage vulgarity and create a better atmosphere at games it would benefit all. If the overall atmosphere does not change the harsh language will not go away. Nor will our challenge to the offending person be well received.
I agree...
… with you, Michael 15. My opposition to homosexual activity – which is based in morality, biology and, yes, religion – doesn’t make me “homophobic”. (BTW – that term is a bastardization. A “phobia” is an irrational fear; it has nothing to do with discrimination regardless of the PC changes to many dictionaries. If it were otherwise, then pyrophobics would seek to discriminate against fire.)
Tolerance is the proper response. The problem with the pro-gay movement is that it doesn’t want tolerance; it wants acceptance in an in-your-face, “how dare you think my behavior is wrong” way.
Finally – civility is, indeed, the order of the day. No dad should be put in the situation where he needs to explain the “And the ______ swallow” chant to his 8 year old son.
The problem with the pro-gay movement is that it doesn’t want tolerance; it wants acceptance in an in-your-face, "how dare you think my behavior is wrong" way.
Cite?
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
The problem with the
pro-gayChristian movement is that it doesn’t want tolerance; it wants acceptance in an in-your-face, "how dare you think my behavior is wrong" way.
Fixed that for you.
I mean, it’s not like people from the pro-gay movement come knocking on my door with pamphlets or try to get their mantras spoken by children every day in public schools or send delegations to foreign countries to “spread the word”, right?
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
by elesias on Jul 9, 2010 7:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you don't even need to go that far
‘in-your-face acceptance’ is just silly mental gymnastics to rationalize bigotry. Saying ‘I have no problem with gay people, just so long as they don’t throw it in my face’ demonstrates that you do, in fact, have a problem with gay people.
Let’s put it this way – how exactly ‘in your face’ does a gay person have to be before you stop tolerating them? If (when) a hockey player calls a press conference to announce that yes, he is in fact a gay man, is that ‘in your face?’ When a GM or coach or trainer hugs and kisses his partner on the ice after winning the Stanley Cup, is that ‘in your face?’ Would you stop being a fan of the Devils if it happened here?
The reason why people say ‘how dare you think my behavior is wrong’ is because being gay isn’t a choice; it’s not ‘behavior’ or a ‘lifestyle’ – it’s biology, and it’s permanent. You are welcome to believe otherwise, just know that if you voice your intolerance, people just might be offended – and if they are, it’s not without cause.
by richer44 on Jul 9, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said, and so this digression ends here too.
P.S. This is correct:
This isn’t a religious issue. Don’t try to make it one.
Very much so. You may be surprised of the beliefs of who wrote this piece but it’s not going to be discussed here as it’s none of your business. (This is a subtle hint, please take it.)
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
It starts with our children, and may take a generation
I remember when I was a child that being called a “fag” was worse than being called a “girl” and almost guaranteed to instigate a fight. I also remember that its use was tolerated by adults. Now that we have grown up, the attitude is still tolerated by adults and that tolerance is still being passed down to the next generation. No one would sit around quietly if someone — especially a child — used an epithet for African-Americans, or Asians, or Hispanics, or Jews, or the mentally or physically challenged.. Those words are now only used in private or silently, because our society has deemed them as unacceptable and we educate our kids that they are. And yet degrading and dehumanizing this segment of our population seems perfectly acceptable.
I work with kids often, and with them I don’t think it’s homophobia as much as it is ignorance of how that word or attitude sounds to someone who is actually gay. We need to teach our kids that Gay Americans are like every other American in that they have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness without anyone else abridging that right wherever it be. Yelling “FAG” in public or saying something that’s wrong is “gay” is offensive, plain and simple. Being aggressive toward someone because they may be gay, or you want to portray them as gay, is absolutely intolerable.
Would a coach tolerate one player calling another player an “n——r” or a “ch—k” or a “s—c” or a “k—e” in the locker room? Would we tolerate it in the stands? On the street? In our kid’s school? On the playground? Then why do we tolerate “f-g”?
Finally, please note that suicide rates are four times higher among gay teens than their straight peers. How we treat these kids either to their face or behind their back is much more than being “PC” or just to be nice. Changing our attitude now might very well save a life later.
by mijthemage on Jul 8, 2010 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
WOW! I never knew it was a problem…….Lets play Hockey not Homo or Hetro Hockey just Hockey. God its a sport, a freaking game, that kids play, that grown ups play. Cant we keep sex & sexual prefrence out of sports. I go to games to see my team compete, not see one player or even gay or straight players. Its about a group of players working together for a common goal. I dont care what they wear under their gear or what they do off the ice. I think people need to get a freaking life and stay out of everyone elses and maybe this world wouldnt be so bad. I dont care who’s dating who, who did this and who did that. Its all excapism. I want to relax and watch a game anyone who follows these players or anyother players lives is the ones who have the problem. There are people who can tell you players stats for the last 30 years but forget their own familys birthdays, egnore their children and their spouse. Get a freaking life!!!!!! When someone else is more important than yourself or the people closest to you YOU HAVE A PROBLEM!
Fine. But unfortunately, some don’t share that view, that’s why addressing the issue is important. In the hopes that one day, the vast majority truly won’t care.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jul 9, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
One more thing
Yes, I do have a rule for this site stating no tolerance of slurs. No, I’m not ignoring my own rules. I’m only allowing frank discussion about one in particular if only because it actually relates to the topic at hand. So far, no one’s done anything that has warranted deletion. Any pejorative use or usage anywhere else on this site will not be tolerated. Other rules apply (e.g. do not make this a religious, political discussion, you’ll find it will not last here.)
I think most people understand that, but it’s always good to state it clearly for those who may not.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
Nicely stated John
As a teacher, I combat stuff like this every day – the ultimate insult to a middle schooler is either “you’re gay” or (oddly enough) “you’re a Jew.” It’s not something I tolerate in my classroom, and I try to speak up in public as well (like at my Buffalo Sabres games) though the crafty pre-teens in my class will use the old “it means he’s happy” or “it means a bundle of sticks” excuse.
It’s a tough battle because most people will either say “F*** you” or just ignore you, but I’ve had success getting other fans to back me up simply by being the guy to say something, so I join you in urging fans to simply be the one to speak up – who knows, you might find a big support group in your fellow Devils fans!
I would likely blame the “oddly enough” piece on South Park.
Go Devils
Go Jets
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A "cite" for the in-your-face nature of the pro-gay movement?
How about any gay pride parade?
Perhaps if people were forced to attend gay pride parades, but since they’re not, I fail to see how they’re “in-your-face” at all.
There’s a difference between bringing attention to an issue and being in-your-face.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
Parades are a voluntary event
How about giving up this point as it has nothing to do with this topic?
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jul 11, 2010 4:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

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