The NHL Free Agency Open Thread for 7/9
Talk about Ilya Kovalchuk. Talk about some other free agent. Talk about who was signed already by the Devils. Talk about who you want signed. Talk about the cap. Talk about whatever as long as whatever means NHL Free Agency.
Please link to any news, do not just say it's on a site or Twitter. Link to the actual story. Standard rules apply, please also pay attention to actual sources, not random comments or untrustworthy places like HockeyBuzz
almost 2 years ago
John Fischer
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OK. Let’s see how this goes.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
Prepare yourself or some orchestrated anarchy. Cant wait
by Marty'sBetter30 on Jul 9, 2010 12:21 AM EDT reply actions
LA
I think it wouldn’t be a bad bet to say the Kings will re-enter the fray in the next 24 hours. It is also a good bet that they withdraw in that same time span.
we need two lines that score and score consistently for all 82
Unless there is a team involved no one has mentioned, I think the delay with Kovy has to be Lou asking Kovy’s people to give him this week to try and move salvador or someone else while he still might have some leverage to get something in return. I would be surprised if he goes anywhere else than the Devils. LA seems out; the Islanders never seemed serious; if he clearly would have decided already to do the KHL if he had wanted to back to Russia so that is out. And Kovy has been the number one priority in Lou’s eyes all along. When we made the trade everyone said he was a rent a player and I disagreed. Lou would never have traded a number first round pick and a defenseman he thought highly enough of to sign before he went to free agency last summer if he didnt know he would make a serious attempt to keep Kovy. Lou is correct, I think the Devils need Kovalchuk to be a real force in their own division which has a couple of teams with very deep offensive talent. The fact is that for the past two or three years at leas the Devils have been a one line offensive team. That just doesnt do it in the playoffs. At times there has been a second for a short period of time that has clicked or was put together in an ad hoc way but nothing has sticked. Adding Kovalchuk makes this a team a bonified and consistent two line offensive team (in fact with Kovy I see three lines on our team that can score consistenty next year). Without Kovy we have one great offensive line and the second line is made up by committee but like the last few years, it wont be a consistent offensive threat all 82 games. Obviously, building another CUP champtionshijp is about more than adding Kovy, but with Kovy and Parise, this team will at the least extend its consecutive playoff streak another decade into the future.
we have two lines already
The second line of Arnott, Elias and (Zubrus, Rolston, Clarkson) is not a slouch line, but I agree a weapon like Kovy keeps us in the upper echelon of offensively talented teams with two bona fide stars like the Pens and Caps.
On Oduya, I still think Lou saw that as an opportunity to dump an average guy he paid too much money for, but I agree that with Cormier, this years first, and Bergfors, he paid more than rental fee for Kovy. What Lou did, which was smart, was let Kovy test drive our organization, get to know the players, coaachng, management, the area, the division rivalries, and how he runs a franchise. All these things give Kovy a psycological level of comfort in making the call to sign in NJ long term – its the Devil he knows so to speak. Lou also showed him alot of respect as a person and not as an asset by not trading his rights to recoup a pick in the draft. Of course the money still has to be there for him to make the call. Two points to Lou.
With regard to the KHL, I tend to agree that if it was just salary and tax implications he would have been gone, however I would not discount it out of hand. The draw to play there must be real for a native Russian, and this has to be a difficult decison for him. Yesterday I actually checked out Google Earth for St. Petersburg, and it is a beautiful city – but looks pretty cold. i am sure that a fabulously wealthy russian would not have any problem living or playing there, except for the cold. Given that he has lived in Atlanta and his family resides in Fla, that might be an issue – two points to LA.
My issue with the KHL, looking at the rosters, is that you really are playing against Tier 2 talent. Hasek is goaltending there, Federov is there, and the list of not quite NHL and used to be NHL talent goes on. It is the difference between English Premier Leauge Football and the NJ/NY Red Bulls. We all know that any high caliber Soccer talent in this country goes to play in Europe becuase that is where the world class competition is. I don’t think you can get these guys (any elite athlete) to forego competing against the best during the prime of their careers for only cash. Secondly, the north americal pro sports economy is pretty stable. I don’t know about the K – the rumors of paychecks not coming through is disturbing, especially if you were considering hitching your wagon to it for the long term in the prime of your earning years. Two points to the NHL.
So, I think it will ultimately be the NHL, and a great part of me wants it to be in NJ because the guy is worth watching every shift. I don’t care if you get two guys half as good for half the price signed for half the time. in five years we won’t remember their names.
That said, if he signs, I don’t have a solution for the glut of left wings, compounded by the issue that we will have to move a right wing to make cap space. But, that is why Lou is in charge. If Rich or Tom starts reporting they have Tedenby playing on the right next week, we will know at least part of the game plan.
Do the Devils Really Have Two Legitimate Offensive Lines?
I dont see two good offensive lines right now and frankly a team really needs three offensive threat lines to go deep into the playoffs and seriously contend for a Cup. A big part of our problem the past couple season has been we only got consistent offensive from one top line. Everyone’s second line right now consists of Arnott and Elias. Remeber it was 10 years ago that these two players were on a really stellar offensive line for the Devils. I love Elias, he is my personal favorite Devil of all time, and I like the addition of Arnott as well. But lets remember that these two players are past their primes, I think both are 35 this coming year, and from that age on you can expect a decline in production. Moreover, Elias was hurt off and on last year. But even if Elias and Arnott are on a second line who is the third party on that line? The fact that some people mention Rolston in this position on a second line for NJ is in my view proof enough that we dont have two bonafide lines. Others have mentioend Zharkov in this position. Common, if a kid who didnt score a single goal all last year is slated to compete for our second line, we dont have one. A line of Zubrus, Clarkson, Rolston may be a decent third line, not a second line if we want to actually get depth offensively and score more than a single goal a game come the playoffs. Adding Kovy to Parise makes us a bonafide two line offensive threat in a way we simply are not without him.
2nd line RW
Could be Zubrus. Between he and Arnott they might open quite a bit of space for Elias.
Could be Zharkov. While not as likely, the kid has the motor and the skill… he just hasn’t put it all together yet. There’s nothing saying he can’t or won’t this season.
Could be Clarkson. Again, probably not as likely, but his grit might complement Patty and Jason.
Personally, I’m with you that the 2nd line isn’t as strong as it could/should be, but also keep in mind that Arnott, while diminished, is still a more viable Center than Elias and/or Zubrus were last year… and that ZZ Pops will draw the toughest competition, leaving the 2nd line to go up against lesser opponents.
Kovy would certainly help address the 2nd line, but he’s not the only option.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
Kovy would certainly help address the 2nd line, but he’s not the only option.
Hmmm, could hiding in that statement be part of the reason Kovy is seemingly hesitant to sign with NJ? Perhaps he wants to be the biggest fish in the ocean and being the key player on the second line tends to negate that possibility. He would no doubt be top banana in LA.
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It’s a legitimate issue, not just for Ilya but I’m sure within management too. Why pay a guy a ton of money, to be highest paid player on the team, and not give him first line minutes?
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
The longer this ordeal with Kovalchuk draws on without any significant information, the more I think he’s gonna go with Nabokov to the KHL. The upside to that is that no OTHER NHL team will get Kovy. As long as it’s NJ or KHL I’m cool with either outcome.
Let’s just win one more Cup before Brodeur retires! Go Devils!
I wish Lou would go back to focusing on making this team better instead of trying to bring in some flashing over-paid player we don’t need.
Bringing in a puck moving defensemen should be the number one priority right now. A 3rd line center would be nice and a 4th line center would be good too.
"Don't worry about my cap" -Lou Lamoriello
I know you dont want Kovy on the team, and while I disagree with you, you have provided your reasons why.
I have to disagree with you though in that Lou has still signed 3 significant UFA’s this offseason in just a few days time. Finding an offensive defenseman will not be an easy task, and looking thru the available UFA’s, there isn’t anyone there that would likely be a better fit than any of our prospects/rookies.
The 4th line Center spot has Sestito and Pelley signed to fight it out. A 3rd line Center will come in time, and not necessarily thru Free Agency.
Its not as though only Lou is negotiating with Kovalchuk, surely there are several other management types fully engaged in ALL Free Agent and other team signings. ILWT
I think what Lou has done so far this offseason has been fantastic. Bringing in Arnott, Volchenkov, and Tallinder where all great moves. Hiring MacLean was also a great move. I think signing Kovy and then the subsequent fire sale to follow would undo all those good moves.
I actually agree that a 3rd line center isn’t really a big need. I wouldn’t be surprised if Henrique or Josefson got that spot. You are also right that no one really knows what Lou is doing. I hope he is focusing on other thing rather than just Kovy.
"Don't worry about my cap" -Lou Lamoriello
I think signing Kovy and then the subsequent fire sale to follow would undo all those good moves.
Remember that Lou promised big changes, and I think some things will happen regardless of whether Kovy is signed or not. I think Salvador will be moved, simply for the reason that we have too many defensive defensemen. Signing Kovy will only affect whether Lou seeks to get a prospect or a pick versus a player who can play immediately.
I also think that Tedenby or Josefson get a chance to play, regardless. Signing Kovy will necessitate moving Zubrus, which is unfortunate, but more than an acceptable trade-off. How extensive the fire sale will be really depends on what Kovy’s cap hit will be. At this point, with few suitors in the running for Kovalchuk’s services, I don’t think his cap hit will ultimately require more moves beyond moving Salvador and Zubrus.
I highly doubt we can just dump Zubrus and Salvador without taking back any cap.
"Don't worry about my cap" -Lou Lamoriello
I don’t see why Lou would settle for any less than a deal that clears cap space for him. At worst, the Devils can waive the two players and see if someone picks them up. And if no one does, then we package the players with draft picks to get rid of them. There’s no reason to take salary back in return.
worse comes to worse if he has to take alot of salary back to dump salvador, zubrus we could send them to the minors, though it would be nice to see us get something back
I’m working on a fairly comprehensive look at the salary cap status now, WOWK (With Or Without Kovy).
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UFA's available
On Defense, the (quality) pickings are slim. I don’t see anyone who I’d want the Devils to claim going that route.
At Forward, there are more choices, including some players we certainly could use as 3rd/4th Line Center. Im looking at Brendan Morrison, Eric Belanger, Dominic Moore, Jeff Halpern, Dean McAmmond, Ryan Johnson, and Mikey Modano. And we could take ‘flyers’ on guys like Arron Asham, Jonathon Cheechoo, and of course, Miroslav Satan.
What do you guys think?
Denis Grebeshkov is a UFA? When did that happen, I don’t remember seeing him on that list before. He is a pretty solid offensive defensemen.
Also I hear Vancouver is looking to move either Bieksa or Ehrhoff. Getting one of those guys would be helpful
"Don't worry about my cap" -Lou Lamoriello
I would be happy with Ehrhoff, Bieksa seems to take some dumb penalties. Grebeshkov could certainly work.
The Canucks will have to trade at least 1 Defenseman, as they have 9 with NHL contracts.
Bieksa wouldn’t be cheap either but we certainly could get a Bieksa and also a Center for the price of a Kovy.
I suffer from selective short term amnesia and have chosen to forget about the 2010 post season.
by Devil_Hard_Core on Jul 9, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
bring back Pikka!
…not
cool avatar Tom
I suffer from selective short term amnesia and have chosen to forget about the 2010 post season.
by Devil_Hard_Core on Jul 9, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
We can bring in another random Finnish former draft pick in Villi Sopanen
"Don't worry about my cap" -Lou Lamoriello
And speaking of random Scandinavian players who have passed through the Devils’ system — what ever happened to that defenseman who was the size of a small mountain, Olli Malmavarra (or something close to that)?
by HockeyWeasel on Jul 9, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Pierre LeBrun keeps quoting a "source" that Kovy really wants to be in LA
Not sure where LeBrun is getting the info from but he has a “source” that Kovy really wants to be in LA. If that is the case, I am sort of done with Kovy. If we are the team he has to settle for, then I don’t think he’d be too excited to come back here and it could reflect in his play.
Some interesting SPECULATION on Spector’s hockey.
Any chance one of the admins starts a Kovy free thread so people can post about other UFA’s and scenarios? Not that I would add much to it at this point because I am really unsure of who is out there and how good of players they are… well just a thought. Guess I’m all Kovy’d out.
I suffer from selective short term amnesia and have chosen to forget about the 2010 post season.
by Devil_Hard_Core on Jul 9, 2010 10:16 AM EDT reply actions
It can be done here. Love him or hate him Kovy is the top free agent out there so we only really need one thread to talk about UFAs. I would love to get a sitdown interview with Grossman to just get the play by play of the negotiations from 7/1 until now. I feel like it is probably a lot of staring at phones and blackberrys hoping for an answer.
This can’t be a bad thing. We either get Kovy or we get pieces we need to fill on defenseman and a center.
Piece by piece we are slowly turning into the 2000 Devils team, anyone up for the A-Line: The Sequel?
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 9, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
If the team is going to sign a center, I don’t expect it to happen until late in training camp, or before the start of the season.
Per this article from Rich Chere, it sounds as if the 3rd line center position is Jacob Josefsen’s to lose.
“We have the addition of Jason Arnott and we’re going to give (Jacob) Josefson a real string shot for that center ice spot on the third line. I think right now we’re going to go with the young players in that area.”
Well, basing my thoughts on this comment, it looks to me then, that the Devils only have one need for the coming season, an Offensive Defenseman.
Denis Grebeshkov (if he takes a pay cut)
As much as it pains me, MA Bergeron
Sheldon Souray (if we can get the Oil to take back a contract)
Anyone else?
I would say pass and hope a Salmela or Eckford can step it up. If the need is still there at the trading deadline then make a move.
I would agree with you up until seeing Josefson will be expeted to be the 3C. I would rather not try to rely on too many youngsters, we need to make a run this season. Id feel better about it if we re-signed McAmmond for Veteran support at the Center position.
While leadership is good, we did just bring in Arnott. Thats veteran support right there. He has been a caption and he has won some stanley cups, so I think thats some pretty good veteran leadership to bring in.
by Jacob Shepherd on Jul 9, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry thats suppose to be captain. haha.
by Jacob Shepherd on Jul 9, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Too many youngsters?
Parise (25) – Zajac (25) – Langenbrunner (34)
Elias (34) – Arnott (35) – Zharkov (22)
Rolston (37) – Zubrus (32) – Clarkson (26)
Leblond (25) – Pelley (25) – Palmieri (20)/Davis (22)
Volchenkov (28), Greene (27), Tallinder (31), White (32), Salvador (34), Salmela (25)
The top 6 forwards average 29 years old, even with the supposition that the youngster Zharkov makes it up to the 2nd line.
The defense also averages over 29.
Outside of the possibility of Josefson or Palmieri or Corrente or Urbom or Davis being able to break into the line up, the only “kid” in it is Zharkov. Neither do I want to turn the team over to unproven kids, but we’re hardly in danger of that situation happening even if a couple do make it.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
If the youngsters are ready, then why not let them learn on the job at the NHL level? Lou brought Gomez to the NHL when he was 20. Elias was 21 when he got his first extended action, and Petr Sykora played in 60+ games for the Devils at age 19.
by HockeyWeasel on Jul 9, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I think the team needs an infusion of youth. As it stands now, there’s no harm letting a few of the kids show what they’ve got.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
I look at it this way. We will never know if they are ready or how good they are now unless we let them play at the NHL level. In the cap era, you need young guys that make under $1MM to step in and be productive. You also need role players like Pelley and Leblond to step in and fill the role of energy guy. I have a feeling that this team only needs minor adjustments with or with out Kovalchuk.
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This leaves out Josefson. Im not saying we will have too many kids. But I base my assumption on Josefson making the team as 3C
"We have the addition of Jason Arnott and we’re going to give (Jacob) Josefson a real string shot for that center ice spot on the third line. I think right now we’re going to go with the young players in that area."
and one of our prospect/rookie Defenseman being in the lineup every night.
If that is the case, Id rather have McAmmond as 4C rather than Sestito or Pelley.
Pelley looked a lot better on the wing than he did at center. And I’d certainly be on board with bringing McAmmond back if he wants to play again.
by HockeyWeasel on Jul 9, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
So that’s (arguably) 3 kids in the line-up. Zharkov already has a season under his belt, and none of the three will be relied on too heavily as they’ll be bottom 6 forwards and/or 3rd pairing defensemen (like Fraser last year).
I’m not against re-signing McAmmond, I’ve suggested as much more than a few times… I’m just trying to demonstrate that even if Zharkov, Josefson and Urbom/Corrente make the team this year, it’s not like we’re putting all of our eggs into an unproven basket and hoping for the best.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
Color me scared, but I dont want to put Josefson in a position unless he will flourish in it. And I dont want him to be a Checking line Center.
But I agree with you, we are not the Islanders, we will not be inundated with under-25 players, no matter what. We are actually on the older side. I just want to protect Jacob Josefson, he is the best prospect that we’ve had in a decade.
It might not come to it. He might be best served getting as much playing time as possible in Albany to get used to the smaller ice surface and to be better prepared to take over for Arnott next year.
With two sure-fire top two line centers already in the line-up (and certainly not going anywhere), it’s hard to imagine he’d make the team to play limited minutes with an occasional bump up to the top 6 as a center… though it is possible Johnny Mac might consider moving away from a true checking line and go with 3 scoring lines.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
I only feel that way now because of this quote from Lou
“We have the addition of Jason Arnott and we’re going to give (Jacob) Josefson a real string shot for that center ice spot on the third line. I think right now we’re going to go with the young players in that area.”
If that’s the case, I hope we do go with 3 scoring lines, which should mean that the 4th line will have to be able to not only provide some energy, but be very effective defensively.
We are the Devils, we may have 3 scoring lines next year but, I guarantee you that the Parise-Zajac-Langenbrunner line will be checking when needed. They are an all purpose line and were used that way during the season to great success.
Even if we go with more offense and open it up alot, the team will still back check and play good, responsible hockey.
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
Yes I agree, because this is the Devils we are talking about, the forwards will be good, two-way forwards, no matter what.
However, if the Zajac line has to play against the opposing teams top line all the time, I think its a detriment to their possible offense. I know Zajac’s numbers suggest he plays against the toughest competition now, and that’s the biggest reason why we needed a 2nd Center who could score points.
I want a checking line that is not expected to score, rather than relying on my best offensive line to play against the opposing team’s best offensive line each and every night.
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
I think we do need to get some of the new kids some practice before the team changes at the end of Brodeur’s career. If we get them in now we can get them some time with a really solid team around them and a goalie who can fix a few mistakes that are made.
by Jacob Shepherd on Jul 9, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
This thinking presumes that the team will be unable to win once Marty retires.
Brodeur is undoubtedly a central cog to the team’s success, and no one is saying it will be easy, but when he does call it quits the team will move on and continue to prove skeptics and doubters wrong.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
Im not saying that they wont be able to win, but I think that the team is going to change drastically after he leaves because the ability to score is going to become extremely important unless we somehow end up with another amazing goalie or Jeff Frazee is ready to step up and take a huge amount of responsibility for our success.
by Jacob Shepherd on Jul 9, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Im just saying that getting the new kids some ice time while there is still a strong safety net to try and fix their mistakes because they are new is a good idea.
by Jacob Shepherd on Jul 9, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Only if we presume that this team will be the same one on the ice when Marty does retire.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
Once Marty does retire, unless he takes a significant pay cut in his next contract, which would be short-term at best, his salary could go directly toward signing a free-agent replacement if Frazee doesn’t work out by then. So we will no longer have the best goalie in the world, well, neither will anyone else.
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The kids may be the solution. While it isn’t a perfect world, or even a scenario to try and re-play, the team didn’t fare too badly in 1999-2000 when they added four rookies named Gomez, Madden, Rafalski, and White to the team. Admittedly, two of said “rookies” weren’t exactly kids (Madden and Rafalski were both mid/late 20s, if I recall correctly), but it isn’t like they played six minutes a night for the club.
I want to go even younger
Kovalchuk – Josefson – Zharkov
Parise – Zajac – Clarkson
Elias – Arnott – Rolson
Leblond – Pelley – Davis
I want the team to go 3 scoring lines (Elias/Parise/Kovalchuk all with different lines). I also want Josefson to center Kovalchuk. I think Kovalchuk has always been a great team player and would help Josefson to be a better player.
I want to get younger as well, but thats changing to much to fast for it to work.
by Jacob Shepherd on Jul 9, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The team needs a big change. I think we see Langy, Salvador, and Zubrus traded the second Kovalchuk signs.
As much as I wouldnt mind seeing Langs go, he still has to approve the deal. He has a NTC.
by Jacob Shepherd on Jul 9, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldnt do that, throwing Josefson into the fire like that.
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
I won’t call being the C for the 2nd best LW in the world a bad thing. I think it gives Josefson an easy way to succeed right from the start.
I dont call is a “bad thing” either, as long as he is ready, which I do not think he is. Nor would I put him in the position of having to produce right away.
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
I hope he is ready. I am not recommending any player who isn’t ready play in the NHL. Kovalchuk scores so many goals that all Josefson has to do is put the puck on Ilya blade.
Getting the puck on Ilya’s stick in a good position is easier said than done. A poor fit at center could mean the difference between Kovalchuk scoring 35 goals versus 50 goals. Whether Josefson is ready to play with truly skilled players such as Kovy, Parise, and Elias is up to him, but typically rookies are not. The last exception the Devils had to that was Scott Gomez playing with Mogilny as a rookie in 2000.
I think an underrated factor in making up line combinations is the handed-ness of the players. I think a big part of Elias’ success in the first incarnation of the A-line is the fact that his right-handed center preferentially dished the puck to the left wing on the breakout and in the neutral zone. He has not had a right-handed center since Arnott was traded. Zajac can get the puck to Parise in transition more quickly and accurately than he can to Langenbrunner because Zajac is right-handed. I believe Josefson is left-handed, so it’s important for his RW to be able to key the transition game, not the LW.
I agree. Sign Kovy. Get Younger. and go with three scoring lines by spreading your top three offensive talents out. You have to haev three scoring lines to win a CUP. Chicago practically had four this year. Right now NJ has one, with Kovy we have two. By spreading out Kovy, Parise, and Elias along with the emergence of at least one of our young offensive talents we can have three.
Gonna pull a quote from way up top and put it in a fresh comment down here (since the topic I’m pulling from is 12 hours old and several pages up).
Unless there is a team involved no one has mentioned, I think the delay with Kovy has to be Lou asking Kovy’s people to give him this week to try and move salvador or someone else while he still might have some leverage to get something in return.
Do you really think the other 29 GMs in the league are stupid enough to fall for that? (Well, maybe Glen Sather is, but I wouldn’t wager anything I couldn’t afford to lose on the other 28) If they’ve come to the conclusion that the Devils intend to move salary first and sign Kovalchuk later, there’s no particular reason for them to cooperate. Any team with designs on Kovalchuk is going to resist, because they’ll want to extend this saga. Any team with a vested interest in pulling the Devils down (that definitely includes Philly, Pittsburgh, the Islanders, and Our Hated Rivals) won’t cooperate for that reason alone.
There would be three scenarios at this point:
- Lou signs Kovy and makes the salary cap room. Excellent, most of us are happy (except for the poor shlubs dumped on another roster and the advocates for a Kovalchuk-free roster) and we move on with our lives.
- Kovalchuk signs elsewhere and nothing more. Excellent, some of us are happy, the team moves on as it is, and we angst over the make-up of our top two lines and whether Marty can win 1-0 games every night.
- Lou makes the salary cap space first, and then Kovalchuk spurns him anyhow. At that point, we’ve got a real disaster on our hands, as we’ll have dumped productive players for subpar returns and still not gotten our superstar. I think at that point the team will have problems looking forward.
There is no leverage in this situation for Lou to exploit. The longer we go with the status quo (which is to say Kovy unsigned and the rest of us chewing our fingernails), the more likely that something will blow up in our faces. I believe Lou is smart enough to realize this. I think Kovy and his agents are playing their games, trying to wring every last dollar out of the situation and maybe even the tug-of-war between North America and Russia.
Discussion Question
While everyone would seemingly agree that cap space needs to be available for Parise next year, what if Lou doesn’t think he has a chance at signing Parise to a long term deal? Could that be the motivation to sign Kovy? So the Devils don’t end up losing both talented LWs?
Well if Lou feels Parise is the future of the team he should be building around him. Signing Kovy doesn’t really fit the bill of building around Parise.
"Don't worry about my cap" -Lou Lamoriello
Hockey isn’t like basketball, where there has to be an alpha dog (LeBron and Wade notwithstanding) who takes the last shot of the game. It’s silly to think of a hockey team as being built around one player. You need multiple stars at multiple positions to win. Signing Kovalchuk would be the biggest help to Parise, because the opposition can no longer focus their best defensive players on Parise.
Well it could mean that Parise sees less minutes and has a lesser role in the offense. It could also mean Parise plays with lesser players. Maybe Parise wants to go somewhere where he is the clear cut top LW.
"Don't worry about my cap" -Lou Lamoriello
In actuality, if Kovy signs, whoever is the #3 LW is the one losing ice time. Parise and Kovy both averages between 15 and 16 minutes of 5-on-5 time per game. Adding in their 5-on-4 time and 4-on-5 time, they had 19 and 21 minutes respectively. Kovy’s 2 extra minutes of PP time are at th epoint primarily and don’t take ice time away from Zach. So we’re really looking at a Parise/Kovalchuk even split of about 1 period each, leaving roughly 11 minutes per for LWs 3 and 4.
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I don’t see why Lou doesn’t at least sit down with Parise and have a discussion about what his expectations are for his next contract. He’s gotta have that bit of information in order to be able to approach the negotiation table with Kovalchuk intelligently.
I can’t get on the Fire & Ice site right now, but I am pretty sure that Parise still doesn’t have an agent and that no talks have taken place yet (like I said can’t get on the site to verify the last reported date)
I already had it open.
From TG’s Twitter, on 7/7 at 9:03 PM.
Zach Parise is still interviewing agents to replace his old one. He says he’s had no contact from Devils about a possible extension.
by HockeyWeasel on Jul 9, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Call Grossman Zach, he already represents half the team :-)
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The site is down… I am going crazy cause this is the only site about the Devils that I can get on and this isn’t really interesting
Piece by piece we are slowly turning into the 2000 Devils team, anyone up for the A-Line: The Sequel?
by RolliePollieKovy on Jul 9, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting and certainly possible. I don’t know why Lou feels he doesn’t have a chance to ink Parise. He’s a RFA, and per CapGeek, the situation next year isn’t too bad.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
"Hockey is the only job I know where you get paid to have a nap on the day of the game." - Chico Resch
by Matthew Ventolo on Jul 9, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
My nightmare scenariom because he is an RFA is arbitration. It all goes downhill from there.
The cap situation isn’t bad, that’s another reason why a Kovy signing is peculiar. Say he signs for $6MM, and you have Andy Greene coming up as a UFA and is paid $3MM You then are hoping that Josefson is ready to be a 2nd line center, and we develop some puck moving defensemen in the system because you are looking at about $9MM in cap space for a number of spots.
I dont get it. Realistically, Arnott doesn’t return and that money goes to Parise. A $2MM raise for Greene comes from either of Langenbrunner or Hedberg.
Next year the Devils have $41MM committed for 11 spots. Their signed roster is currently:
Elias/Rolston/Zajac/Zubrus/Clarkson/PL3-Forwards
Volchenkov/Tallinder/White/Salvador-Defense
Brodeur-Goalie
12 spots for $18MM. Assume $1MM for a backup goalie. Also, for argument sake say Tedenby, Josefson and Urbom are on the roster, that is roughly another $2.75MM. Add in $3MM for Greene and you are looking at a little over $11MM for 7 spots. NOW assume that Kovalchuk is signed. It just doesn’t fit, unless there is some clearing of the cap from bigger contracts which we all know can’t be moved. Remember they also have $1MM in dead money because of the buyouts.
But if Kovy signs, we already know that the Devils need to rid themselves of Zubrus, Salvador, or both.
Adding $3MM for Greene is unlikely, as he already earns $737,500, we can bet on $2MM if he repeats his previous season this year.
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
If he has another season like 09-10 I think he will get $3MM. If Rob Scuderi got $3.5MM from LA, Greene will get that from someone.
See I think it’s more likely that they utilize waivers to get rid of some contracts so that’s why I can’t rule out anyone that has a contract for next year yet.
Fair enough, but then that clouds the Cap situation in regards to having enough room to sign RFA’s next year.
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
It does, with Corrente coming up he should get a raise to at least a $1MM. I hate speculating about the cap because there are so many variables and things that can happen, but the fact that the Devils are still in on Kovy is very interesting to me, because money wise, it doesn’t make sense. Heck, I thought the Devils were going to sit tight after signing Tallinder. Boy was I wrong.
True, arbitration is not in the Devils favor (see history). If I’m Lou, I’m using next season to work out a deal before the season even ends. Let him know the organization wants him to be the face of the team.
Agree on Kovy (I don’t think we need him). Parise, Greene, and I’ll even throw Zharkov in there as top priority for next year.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
"Hockey is the only job I know where you get paid to have a nap on the day of the game." - Chico Resch
by Matthew Ventolo on Jul 9, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that as long as Lou can clearly demonstrate a long-term plan to keep the team a viable Cup-contender, he’ll be willing to talk about a contract extension.
ZP has certainly expressed, publicly, some frustration with the early playoff exits the past couple of years, but that seems aimed more at the result than at the team itself.
by HockeyWeasel on Jul 9, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He has to have mixed feelings about the acquisitions this off-season. Seeing the defense behind him get more defensive isn’t going to lure Parise. Tell you the truth, winnings is probably the only way to lure him.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
"Hockey is the only job I know where you get paid to have a nap on the day of the game." - Chico Resch
by Matthew Ventolo on Jul 9, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
WHOA!
San Jose pulling out all the stops! What are the predictions here?
I think SJ has their defenseman.
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
Chicago has time to match. They can send ChristoLOL Huet to the Minors and then match.
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Jul 9, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Chicago has seven days to match the offer. If the team does not match it, they will receive San Jose’s first and third round picks in the 2011 NHL entry draft.
$3.5MM Cap Hit
No way can Chicago match that, this was their worst fear, they probably just lost another player.
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
Chicago still has a lot of options, so I don’t think Hjalmarsson should be shopping for houses in the Bay Area just yet.
Off the top of my head, I figure Patrick Sharp has trade value, and the ‘Hawks can quickly deal him in a salary dump if that becomes necessary (and it isn’t, because Chicago can exceed the cap by close to $6 million before opening night). I have considerable doubts that Cristobal Huet will be in the Windy City come opening night — he’ll either be traded or plying his trade in the AHL. I could see some combination of Kopecky, Reasoner, and Brouwer out the door, whether traded, bought out, or stuck in the Minors as well. Right there, that’s five players whose total cap hit is roughly $13 million, any or all of whom could be ex-Blackhawks.
I’m not saying Chicago will throw those guys overboard and re-sign Hjarmarsson. For that matter, I don’t know that I would at that price. His numbers suggest to me that he has limited offensive capabilities, and I’m not sure I’d pay $3.5 million for a defensive D-man considering Chicago’s cap situation. They might be better off pocketing the draft picks. But there are options there if they decided he has to be kept.
What if the Devils were to trade Langenbrunner, Zubrus & Salvidor for Kaberle. What would that do for cap space with & without Kovalchuck?
Would you guys be upset if all we got for Langy, Zubrus, and Salvador were draft picks/prospects? I would do it if it means we lock up Ilya. I think an ideal move would to be trade those 3 players for a solid D puck mover.
Until Langs publically waives his NTC or states that he wants out of NJ, its best not to include him in any theoretical roster moves.
I don’t think Langs would be the type of player who would publicly state he wants out of NJ. If he actually wants out he will simply tell Lou to trade him privately.
and until that happens, he’s a Devil with a NTC until that contract ends, and should not be included in possible roster moves.
“Yeah, Jamie, we’re trying to win a Cup here. I know we’re practically underpaying for your skillset, but we need the cap room. Would mind doing us a solid and waiving that contractual incentive we gave you when we negotiated your last contract and make this run without you? You’re cool with, right?”
In exchange for Zubrus and Salvador, I have no problem with only getting future assets in return. I don’t have a whole lot of expectations for getting much in return for either of them. IF langenbrunner were traded, I’d like to see us get a puck-moving Dman who can play immediately in return. I think he can extract a pretty good return, especially from a contending team tight on cap space but overstocked with good young defenseman.
If we were still able to sign some decent filler players in the mean time. But we do need a puck moving dman.
Per Capgeek
After the Giradi signing the Rangers have $4.5 left for next year. I wish San Jose had put out a little more coin for an offer sheet for Staal.
Do the Rags have enough for Marc Staal now?
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
"Hockey is the only job I know where you get paid to have a nap on the day of the game." - Chico Resch
by Matthew Ventolo on Jul 9, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
They also have the 10% cushion to work with for now, and the ability to demote Wade Redden before the start of the season.
Also have Brashear, Zuccarello-Aasen and Voros on the roster. Thought Brashear and Voros had been bought out?
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
Moving past the "K" word and onto the "A" train.
Perhaps we should spend a little more time talking about the man who has signed with the team as opposed to the one who hasn’t. I just keep watching this (minus the terrible music) and daydreaming of days in early October.
Me likey
Good work. Glad he stood up for himself in Carolina, even if it was just Eric Staal.
He almost took Jochen’s head off.
But where was the Hedman hit!?! Here it is!
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
TRUCULENCE AT IT’S FINEST!
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
I’d be careful what you’d wish for. Toronto got all kinds of TRUCULENCE!!!1111 last season and they stared up at the rest of the league for most of last season.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
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A-Train signing made my off-season. I will still be happy about the off-season even if we don’t sign Kovalchuk (who was my favorite player since he join the NHL).
Can’t wait until the A-Train knocks out the Flyer forwards.
Richards please…
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
Without the penalty please…
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
it wasnt a dirty hit thats just carcillo being a cry baby like here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0GeiWoiiIE
Wow. Only one example?
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I doubt Avery will go anywhere near Volchenkov, or go near Marty while Volchenkov is on the ice. He’ll fight Mike Mottau though.
I almost forgot that this happened… maybe we should re-sign Mottau.
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
1800+ posts with this avatar… and you almost forgot it happened?!
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
Its hard to see! Go Mottau!
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
mottau does his thing
I must say, the guy throws done when he needs to. Respectable
"You're next" - Scott Stevens
Going to find that link of the Avery/Mottau fight got me curious, so I browsed to see what other fights he had, and I found this gem. I present…Avery vs. Carcillo…
Lou...an offering to your magical powers
I offer you a 1995 stanley cup poster with Marty,Scotty, kenny d, and Johnny Mac in promenance in the photo smiling bringing Jersey its first championship. I offer it to recapture that happiness and winning formula.
I offer a Devils Beer stein, many a celebratory and sad beers have been shared in this glass. Tears have feel in it, may their power make Kovy sign.
Finally-the game program from my first devils game. A loss, but the hard hits and tenacity made me a fan.
take these lou and find a way to resign kovy power
I hate Philadelphia so much.
So I thought by midnight Friday a Kovy signing would occur but at 9:47pm with really no news besides speculation today (which is not really news) it looks like nothing will happen.
Any guesses on what is going on in the Kovy camp?
Kovy formulating another offer to LA?
Grossman now coaching Kovy to go the Hossa route and pick up 1 or 2 year lucrative deals to open up bidding with more teams?
I don’t know. And although in this post I don’t care (in denial), I am really hoping tomorrow morning or Sunday morning, I wake up to see the news that Lou has signed an offensive D-man, AND another forward. YES, two players for what Kovy would have cost us.
I don’t blame Kovy. This is a cross roads in his career. He’s in his prime. He wants a cup. He wants money (just in case no cup) because after all he is Kovy.
At the start of the week, I was all-in for Kovy. Now with a few days to think about it I can go either way. (what you think I’d say I don’t want him on the Devils?) I do and I don’t.
He is an electrifying player. I’ve seen him at many Devils games (while he was with us). Every time he broke away, the place went nuts. We need him on the team. We don’t need the cap ramifications. I don’t know any more. At this point, I’m a Kovy junkie.
Kovy, make up your mind, and let us all move on with our lives! ;-)
OR
LOU, make up your mind, and move on with this team. Don’t let the remaining free agents get picked up because I need you to build a team that will put those dirt bag flyers in their place. I am sick of that orange crap skating up and down the ice. Sweeping us in the regular season last year. The playoffs… more like playouts. Thank you for Volchenkov by the way. Can’t wait to see him flatten Carcillo and company.
Night all. Here’s to a signing (or two signings for the price of 1) by weekend’s end.
I suffer from selective short term amnesia and have chosen to forget about the 2010 post season.
The Flyers have signed Nikolai Zherdev, formerly of the Rangers, in a signing I don’t get at all.
That move officially puts them over the cap, so someone has to go. Reports have recently had Gagne waiving his NTC, but he has since denied it. Prior to that the guy that seemed on his way out was Carter. Personally, I’ll take their having to deal either away as they’ve both been Devils killers.
Now that Holmgren has painted himself into a corner, what do you think he’ll do? My WAG is trade Carter to the Kings for a not very good return of picks and the Kings tell Kovalchuk and Grossman to lose their number.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
Don’t the Kings need a winger more than they need another center? Has Carter played the wing before?
by HockeyWeasel on Jul 10, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I honestly don’t know enough about them to know. I know they want a winger, which is why they are/were after Kovalchuk, but I have to imagine someone somewhere has the ability to move from C to W be it Carter or Handzus or whomever.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
I agree 100%. When it was rumored a couple days ago, I just didn’t get it. Still don’t get it now. Like you said, Gagne didn’t waive his NTC. So the move, now official makes even less sense! Carcillo and the Flyers are going under arbitration. He’s going to be awarded more than $1.04, so the Flyers may pass. Powe is also a RFA (63 GP last season).
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
"Hockey is the only job I know where you get paid to have a nap on the day of the game." - Chico Resch
by Matthew Ventolo on Jul 10, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s possible it’s a sign-and-deal as part of a package he’s putting together… though I don’t know that Zherdev is much of a sweeten-the-pot kind of asset. If a team wanted him they could have gone out and gotten him.
Who knows? All I can do is smile that our division has at least two GMs who don’t seem to know what they’re doing.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
Zherdev was available to all 30 teams, and 29 passed on him, so I really doubt he has any value in a sign-and-trade
by HockeyWeasel on Jul 10, 2010 12:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree, I’m just trying to fathom what Holmgren might be thinking because it’s very difficult to imagine he expects Zherdev and Shelley to replace Carcillo and Gagne or Carter .
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
All I can do is smile that our division has at least two GMs who don’t seem to know what they’re doing.
+1…ditto haha
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
"Hockey is the only job I know where you get paid to have a nap on the day of the game." - Chico Resch
by Matthew Ventolo on Jul 10, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Closer to three. If Snow knew what he was doing more players would want to play there as well.
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I’m on the fence about Snow. He’s only got the allowance Daddy Wang gives him, and Moulson makes him look like a genius.
I’m more likely to say Shero is the third. What’s he done but draft Staal, a no-brainer, and take over a crappy but already improving team with Crosby and Malkin already on it? He’s got a Cup on his resume, so it sure looks like he’s doing something right, but how much of that can really be attributed to his moves? We’ll see what the next few years bring I guess.
To "resign" is to voluntarily leave a position; retire. To "re-sign" is to sign again. When talking about free agents, please use the correct one.
Shero’s challenge is to keep the team among the league’s elite. As we’ve witnessed with the Devils over the years, that is no easy feat. Admittedly, it is easier to build a team when many players will take low-dollar/one-year deals to play with Crosby and Malkin (and hope to cash in after that), or veterans might flock for a chance at a Cup before they retire, but it isn’t all easy. He’ll have major problems with draft-and-develop, which he’ll need to do to sustain the team. He isn’t drafting high anymore, and I don’t recognize any players he’s drafted the last three years. Go back another season, and the two names I recognize both were traded away (one for Hossa, one for Ponikarovsky or however it is spelled) In addition, any players he manages to develop are prime targets for offer sheets given the cap situation there.
I’m on the fence regarding Garth Snow. He’s not allowed to spend the way the other GMs in the division are, and he took over a complete disaster of a re-build after Mike Milbury left and Neil Smith was ousted. He appears to be drafting well, but is he building up like the Blackhawks did, or are the current Islanders a flash in the pan?
Zherdev replaces Gagne’s numbers, and I suppose Shelley is supposed to be smarter than Carcillo. Haha, Holmgren.
I hope Gagne moves to the West.
"What in tarnation's goin' on 'round here?!?" - Yosemite Sam in reference to Ilya Kovalchuk not yet signing
Unless Zherdev discovered a magic formula in Russia that will make him care and give complete effort on a consistent basis, I think Philadelphia fans will be booing him by Thanksgiving. Like Alexei Yashin and any number of other Europeans/Russians we can name, we’re talking a million dollars of talent with a ten cent brain.
I think if there is a puck moving defenseman coming to the Devils, it’ll be Bieska, Ehrhoff or (less likely) Edler from Vancouver. Vancouver is about $358K over the cap with 23 players signed, 9 of which are defensemen. It wouldn’t get them all the way there, but Zubrus for Bieska would get Vancouver really close and wouldn’t impact the magic Lou has to pull off if he signs Kovy too much. While Zubrus is technically listed as a center, he’s spent some time on the right side of the ZZZ line, and Vancouver seems quite short (based on their roster designations) of Right Wings. It fills a need for both teams and helps Vancouver get under the cap (almost). Although a Salvador for one of those three does help Vancouver about the same amount, they don’t need to replace the defenseman that goes with another defenseman.
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