Is Ilya Kovalchuk the most talented NJ Devil of all-time?

by DownGoesAvery on Sep 24, 2010 8:35 PM EDT

I really don't think it's premature to look at Ilya Kovalchuk and call him the most talented player to EVER play for this Devils franchise. I understand the talent of the past, from John MacLean to Pat Verbeek, Kirk Muller, Brendan Shanahan, Neal Broten, Alexander Mogilny, Patrik Elias, even Doug Gilmour, Dave Andreychuk, Brian Gionta and Zach Parise...Kovalchuk is beyond what this franchise has ever seen. This includes defensemen. Sorry Scott Niedermayer, Scott Stevens, Brian Rafalski, Slava Fetisov and every other Devil.

No Devil ever acquired via trade ever had as many goals (31) as Kovalchuk did when he was traded to New Jersey during a season. No matter how many goals Kovalchuk scores this season (2010-11), he brings a new dimension to the Devils franchise that New Jersey has never seen before. Sure, numbers don't lie, Kovalchuk has scored 40+ goals in each of his last six seasons, twice eclipsing the 50-goal mark and sharing the Rocket Richard trophy, scoring 117 goals...powerplay goals in his career thus far, amassing 338 goals and 642 career points. Kovalchuk's career shooting percentage is an absolutely incredible 14.8% through 2289 shots. Considering how hard his shot is, it's no wonder he can score on wrist shots from the blue line regularly.

This is more than a single hockey player. Ilya Kovalchuk gives the Devils an identity. That identity was founded by the likes of Travis Zajac and Zach Parise, but with Martin Brodeur not getting younger (life works that way, doesn't it?), the Devils clearly needed another piece. Kovalchuk [and arguably Anton Volchenkov] re-establishes the toughness the Devils have always preached, but in a different dynamic than ever before. Kovalchuk's talent is not matched by many in the NHL today. The only player who consistently scores on the pace Kovalchuk does is Alex Ovechkin in Washington. It's no wonder that since the lockout, Kovalchuk's 230 goals are second only to Ovechkin during that time.

Ilya Kovalchuk is an international superstar. You may love him, you may hate him, but what cannot be ignored is that Kovalchuk has proven that he is one of the game's elite stars, and while his overall team goal has not been acheived yet (winning Lord Stanley's Cup), he certainly put himself in a good position to do so. Kovalchuk is an investment by the Devils for the post-Brodeur years, and along with Parise and Zajac, Kovalchuk could lead a powerhouse hockey team for years to come. It may or may not be premature to look far ahead, but Kovalchuk brings an extraordinary amount of excitement to New Jersey.

So now I ask ILWT, is Kovy the most exciting and talented superstar to ever play for the Devils? If you don't think so, tell who you do think is and why.

Poll

Is Ilya Kovalchuk the most talented player to ever play for the New Jersey Devils franchise?

Yes

96 votes

No

43 votes

Let's wait a few years and see

73 votes

Ilya who?

2 votes

214 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

I guess the question must be asked

Do we consider excellent players who played for the Devils, but weren’t necessarily top stars at the time (e.g. Mogilny, Richer, Stastny)? Because if so, I would have to rate Peter Stastny above him, career-wise.

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by FrankG929 on Sep 24, 2010 9:42 PM EDT reply actions

Yikes, how did I forget Stephane Richer and Stastny?!
It’s almost worth editing this post, but I won’t.

Anyway, good points, but I still think Kovy is the greatest player to play in NJ…ever.

"Potential means you ain't done it yet" - Bill Parcells

by DownGoesAvery on Sep 24, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't know about most talented.

I’d say arguably best offensively skilled player they had. Best shot probably. Best hands probably. Best passer, I don’t think so. Parise is pretty damn good himself and a better overall player then Kovalchuk, so naming Kovalchuk your best talent is a little crazy considering he isn’t even the most talented player on the team. Then you have Brodeur, easily going to be ranked the best goalie of all-time(at minimum best career/regular season goalie), bar-none. Stevens is missing from you list too, and he was an elite all around d-man. Not to mention Stevens had 6 seasons of a +24 rating or better on the Devils while helping them win 3 cups and while being the best blueline protecter of all-time. Those are some unheard of numbers and accomplishments.

Best talented…..My Heart wants to say Stevens……My Brain wants to Brodeur…..and My runer up/possible future guy would be Parise. Parise may not be extremely skilled, but his hustle is like no other. He does the most with what he’s got and his numbers and play prove it. From my brain’s view: Brodeur>Stevens>Parise>Kovalchuk

Go isles or Go home.

by OzzyFan on Sep 25, 2010 12:12 AM EDT reply actions

Most Talented =/= Best

While “best” and “most talented” are not mutually exclusive, nor do they go hand-in-hand. To me, talented refers to natural gifts, while best refers to how one applies what they have and includes other issues such as work ethic.

Zach Parise is the Devils’ best all-around player. What Zach doesn’t have, that Ilya Kovalchuk brings to the party, are amazing natural gifts. Parise doesn’t have Kovy’s rocket of a shot or his shooting range, and I don’t think that’s anything Zach can possibly develop. Kovy has other natural gifts (accuracy among them) that Parise similarly is not going to duplicate. What makes Parise so good is his tireless work ethic, his chemistry with his linemates, his leadership, his non-stop motor, his all-around play, and his willingness to go to the dirty areas to get results. However, these are all things Kovalchuk could learn and duplicate, if time and effort were put to that end. I imagine we’ll see some progress towards that end, but not everything.

To broaden the talent/best argument a little bit as to try and better prove my point…. Scott Stevens was a ferocious open-ice hitter. He had the strength to make the spectacular hit (talent), but he also knew when to do it and how to do it legally (not talent). Scott Niedermeyer was the best offensive defenseman of his generation. He had the speed and boundless endurance (talent), but also the sense of when to jump into plays and when to hold back (not talent).

Ask an Islanders fan about “Alexei Yashin”http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=475&hubname=nhl. There’s little doubt in my mind that Yashin is a spectacular talent, but the commitment and follow-through weren’t always there. To go outside basketball, look at Michael Jordan — there’s an example of a guy with tremendous talent, but also a will-to-win that had him constantly working on his game and adding new pieces to his repetoire to stay ahead of everyone else.

In conclusion, talent can take you a long way, and can certainly dominate against lousy competition. However, talent can only take you so far, especially at the NHL level.

by acasser on Sep 25, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions

parise is the best rounded player in the nhl

period

by KovyisLove on Sep 25, 2010 12:37 AM EDT reply actions

Certainly not

Even though he is my favourite player I say Crosby and Ovechkin are without a dought better than parise. Datsyuk could be there too.

by zach parise9 on Sep 25, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions

without a dought

Nice.

Though don’t forget Zetterberg. Best shutdown forward in the league, in my opinion.

My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the winger that has now terrorized over 70 NHL goalies.

by red army line on Sep 26, 2010 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions

I wouldn’t even say Zetterberg is close to Parise’s level. Zetterberg had one good year but that was all. Zetterberg is not the best shutdown forward either or he might have been a nominee for selke.

by zach parise9 on Sep 26, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions

The Selke is incredibly reputation based. Zetterberg was nominated once along with Datsyuk (2008?), and I remember clearly that Mike Babcock commented that they’re both good, but if the Wings have a 1 goal lead late in the third with a D zone faceoff, Zetterberg is the first guy he chooses to go out there.

It’s also not fair to say he has one good season. The first three seasons after the lockout he was at a point per game, hitting 85 points, then 68 in 63, then 92.

Here are his line combos. In previous years he and Datsyuk (and Holmstrom) played together as the top line which also served to play the tough minutes. Nowadays, Zetterberg is the shutdown center (but still listed as only a wing in many places). (well, I see Zetterberg taking draws, so I assume he’s playing lots of center)

The fact that he’s not known as a center no doubt hurts him, and the Selke voters like good offensive totals. I mean, how many of <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coppernblue.com%2F2010%2F5%2F3%2F1455867%2Fthe-best-forwards-in-the-nhl-tough&rct=j&q=copper%20and%20blue%20tough%20minutes%20forwards&ei=e7mgTJnpIo6Z4Ab7reG-Dg&usg=AFQjCNHvD024zTKe05-Z8iG82J5TspzJMg&sig2=mrEN8w2HzSKhgCquoblntw&cad=rja" target="new">these guys even get considered?

I’ve seen exactly one forward harass and shutdown Sidney Crosby consistently, and that’s Zetterberg. He frustrated them so much Malkin went after him (and didn’t get suspended…what’s up with that? It’s in the rulebook, Gary). Crosby couldn’t do anything over 13 playoff games in two years, and he’s the best center and best/second best forward in the game. That earns major points in my book. Sure, Lidstrom is part of that too, but there’s only so much a D can do.

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by red army line on Sep 27, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Bad link, my bad

Link

How often do you hear Eric Staal, Shawn Horcoff, Martin Hanzal, Jay McClement, or Scott Gomez brought up?

Another point about wings—it’s extremely rare for wings to win the Selke. It’s almost entirely centers.

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by red army line on Sep 27, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions

The Selke is incredibly reputation based.

Not just the Selke. The Vezina is notorious for this one — anyone remember Marty having to “wait his turn” while Hasek won it again and again? How about Ryan Miller last season when his numbers weren’t any better than Brodeur or Tuuka Rask, but Miller got a bump from the Vancouver Games?

I think the Lady Byng is another one that falls into this category, because you always seem to see the same guys nominated over-and-over. Heck, even the Norris seems to have an insular pool of nominees, although not as bad as the others.

by acasser on Sep 27, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions

this must be assuming skaters only

and even if so, i dont think he outranks neidermayer, and maybe not even stevens. i’d say that neidermayer was arguably the best defenseman in his day, and he certainly achieved more.

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by nodisrespect on Sep 25, 2010 4:52 AM EDT reply actions

Yea I could see putting them both in the top 10 defense-men of all time, but I can’t see putting Kovy in the top 10 forwards of all time. Maybe goal scorers, but even that is hard to do.

by devsfan9 on Sep 25, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

I dunno, considering what was said above (talent != being good), and considering goaltending is heavy on reading the play and positioning (mental parts, not talent), I’m not so sure. It looks to me like there are more talented goalies than Brodeur but he’s just so much smarter than the others (and the same applies to Hasek in the 90s, Roy is his time, etc).

My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the winger that has now terrorized over 70 NHL goalies.

by red army line on Sep 26, 2010 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Scratch that

I can’t think of any talented goalies in the skater sense of talent, which is the definition I was using in that last comment. Brodeur must be right up there in talent.

My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the winger that has now terrorized over 70 NHL goalies.

by red army line on Sep 26, 2010 7:25 AM EDT up reply actions

Most Talented OFFENSIVE Player to Play for New Jersey.

First, it might be a tad premature to start considering someone who JUST signed a 15 year contract as the most talented NJ Devil of all time. :) But under the assumption that in a few years he very well could and likely should be considered as such, I would say he is the most offensively talented player we have ever had. Overall talent wise, it’s extremely difficult to argue that he’s the best player New Jersey has ever had – I would immediately name Martin Brodeur above him and possibly Scot Niedermayer and Scott Stevens as well. Don’t forget – these aren’t just talented players, they are some of the greatest players to ever play their position in the history of the NHL. That has been confirmed by a wide majority of hockey fans.

I won’t say Kovalchuk is the most talented player to ever lace up the skates with New Jersey, but I can argue (as you have) that he is the most offensively talented player we have ever had. He’ll have plenty of years to prove his worth on this team.

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

by Tim G on Sep 25, 2010 12:37 PM EDT reply actions

Definitely most talented forward, but all time is hard to judge. If you take one most talented from each position though I think it would be Kovalchuk, Niedermayer, Brodeur

Dear Brian Rolston, please waive your no trade clause and leave New Jersey. Love, everyone.

by thejerseydevil on Sep 25, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions

Now here is an interesting debate Niedermayer or Stevens, I want to say Stevens, but than I look at how Niedermayer skates and I really can not tell

by devsfan9 on Sep 25, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions

It’s hard to judge Scott Stevens as a complete player, because he transformed his game from more of an all-around player to a defensive force after the 1994 season. Consider he was 47-147-194 his first three years with the club, and 47-190-237 his last ten seasons. If you go by the Devils years, you get more of an apples-and-oranges comparison between the two Scotts. I suspect few (if any) of us watched Stevens a fair amount during his Washington days (or his single season in St. Louis) and therefore can’t really judge the kind of offensive player he was in his youth.

Each player brought something to the table that the other never had. Niedermeyer has that amazing speed, having won the Fastest Skater competition several times. Stevens had the physical edge. How do you really compare the two?

by acasser on Sep 25, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Interesting point, I never saw Stevens before he was a devil and even before 1994, but if you look at his statistics they were beast. They really did compliment each other well and I think part of the reason Stevens became more defensive was because Niedermayer took a more offensive role. So it is a near impossible comparison.

by devsfan9 on Sep 25, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions

There’s no question Stevens was one of the best ever at what he did. I only say Niedermayer because it seemed he could play a complete game on defense. Stevens had a little offensive flair in his day but there’s a reason any defenseman who’s a great skater is compared to Nieds.

Dear Brian Rolston, please waive your no trade clause and leave New Jersey. Love, everyone.

by thejerseydevil on Sep 25, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe it's just me...

But i think Marty is the most talented person to ever play for the franchise and he has the records and hardware to back it up.

by Zelepukin on Sep 25, 2010 1:47 PM EDT reply actions

See, I got exactly what I was looking for: a contraversy.

I did include Stevens by the way, in the defensive category. Marty is very talented, no doubt, it has been an honor to watch him over the years and attend some of his milestone games, but I still argue it’s down to Ilya and maybe another forward. Now Parise is the hardest working Devil right now, and he is very skilled, but I think Kovy has a SLIGHT edge in the offensive talent department.

"Potential means you ain't done it yet" - Bill Parcells

by DownGoesAvery on Sep 25, 2010 1:55 PM EDT reply actions

If we’re talking raw physical talent, I think Kovalchuk, Mogilny and Richer are the top 3. Those guys are thoroughbreds. Kovalchuk has proved to be a more consistent performer throught his career than either of those two, especially Richer, who had brilliant seasons, but a very uneven career. Mogilny had a good career, but there were some off-years in there. His 43-goal season in 2000-2001 with NJ was pretty dynamite.

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by bergenline on Sep 25, 2010 8:01 PM EDT reply actions

That’s what I’m looking for…and I agree completely.

"Potential means you ain't done it yet" - Bill Parcells

by DownGoesAvery on Sep 27, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions

My two cents

Kovalchuk is probably the best shooter the Devils have ever had, by virtue of being the best shooter in the league right now.

He’s in the discussion, but I think Brodeur is the most talented Devil since he’s been so consistently good for so long in addition to playing a position where if he doesn’t perform, it’s visible on the scoreboard. If we’re comparing skaters, though, I would rate Parise higher because he is such a monster at even strength that it’s not just hard work that gets him goals in tight spaces or gets the puck moving in the right direction. There’s real unteachable skill in his game.

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by John Fischer on Sep 26, 2010 10:22 PM EDT reply actions

I’m gonna have to reserve until I see more of Kovy. Mogilny was ridiculously talented. Richer was amazing. There was a monster named Claude that played here for a while. He was pretty freakin’ talented too.

by Murdoc on Sep 27, 2010 6:49 AM EDT reply actions

Funny you should bring Claude up. I was debating whether to include him in my list of forwards up top.

"Potential means you ain't done it yet" - Bill Parcells

by DownGoesAvery on Sep 27, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Loiselle? or Vligrain?

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by FrankG929 on Sep 28, 2010 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions

I chuckled, and was then immediately depressed that I knew who you were talking about. :/

by Murdoc on Sep 28, 2010 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Hopefully he will play up to his contract/capabilities, and this will be an easy answer come July. As of now, Brodeur is the most consistent, Stevens the biggest impact player, Niedermayer (Scott) the most talented and Parise the most well-rounded.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way

by myrick4gm on Oct 3, 2010 4:18 AM EDT reply actions