The Eventual New Jersey Devils 2010 Salary Dump: A Primer
by John Fischer on Sep 5, 2010 12:26 PM EDT
in Devils Issues, Views & Analysis
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Now that Ilya Kovalchuk is finally, officially, and definitively a member of the New Jersey Devils for the next 15 years, Lou Lamoriello has a new, crucial short-term problem. The Devils are over the salary cap by $2,698,333 $2,943,333 (Update Note from the Author: I mixed up the 6 and the 9 earlier, and that cap hit is $25,000 too high. In a word: oops. Thanks to Frank for catching the error and the note on Rod Pelley's salary.) Changes now made accordingly) with 21 spots filled on the New Jersey roster, as noted by CapGeek. The Devils have to be under the cap by the time the season starts.
Lou has this month to figure out who to trade away or demote to not only clear roughly $2.699 $2.943 million in salary but also enough space to replace the traded-or-moved player. For example, if the Devils just moved Bryce Salvador and his $2.9 million cap hit to Albany, then the Devils would not be under the cap. However, That leaves $43,333 in cap space over the cap. There's not even space to add a minimum salary for a player, which is $500,000. The Devils won't be able to replace Salvador on defense unless Anssi Salmela makes a miracle recovery before the start of the season. Even if that happens, every Devil fan will be praying that no one gets hurt because the Devils may not have the space for a replacement.
My point is that the Devils have to clear more than just $2,698,333 $2,943,333. If this seems familiar to you, that's because it was one of my main points back on July 20, after the first Ilya Kovalchuk contract was submitted. The point is largely the same, only more money must be cleared. In that post, I explained why Bryce Salvador and Dainius Zubrus wee the prime trade targets. They still are. In fact, Zubrus ($3.4 million cap hit) alone would get the Devils to safety for now; the Devils would have $701,667 free in that case - enough for a cheap player or prospect to replace his spot.
They aren't the only options, the Devils could be incredibly dumb and move Travis Zajac, or we can see something that hasn't happened with this franchise and witness someone with a NTC waiving it for a transaction. What follows is a quick primer of who else is over the cap, who has a ton of cap space, and a warning to not get too close to the current New Jersey prospects and draft picks.
The Current Cap Situation as of September 5, 2010
CapGeek is an invaluable resource for anyone looking to see who is and isn't under the salary cap. The front page has a daily-updated list of the cap space and roster size of each team. I've taken two screen caps this morning of that front page to show off the current situation. As more moves are made this month, this will change; hence the need for the screen cap. Just going to the link won't mean much in a week or so. There will certainly be more moves in the NHL this month, since the Devils aren't the only ones above the salary cap ceiling:
This is the "top 10" with respect to the least cap space. The Devils aren't the only ones over the cap: Vancouver, Boston, Calgary, Toronto, and the New York Rangers are also above the limit. Some of these teams have easy outs: Toronto isn't much over the cap, and they'll need to demote one of their 24 players to get to the 23-man roster limit. They'll be fine. The Rangers are just barely over, and even just moving a player down to the AHL would make them more than safe.
I'm not sure what Vancouver, Boston, and Calgary plan to do. In the last post on this subject, user triumph44 noted that those three teams can place Marco Sturm, Sami Salo, and Daymond Langkow on long-term injured reserve. That would get those three teams cap-compliant as long as they remain injured. Admittedly, I'm not too sure what their status are right now. The groin injury suffered by Salo was reported as "out at least 3 months" as of July, according to this USA Today report. Langkow recently got cleared to light skating after suffering a fractured vertebrae last season, according to this post at NBC's Pro Hockey Talk. Earlier last month, NESN reported that Sturm wants to make a comeback, but that's not likely to happen before November.
In any case, I still think those three teams are still additional obstacles for the Devils to make a deal since all three can do the same should they have faith in their respective injured players returning to play. Moreover, the Devils aren't going to be able to make a trade with them or any of those 10 teams I put in that screen cap. OK, I doubt the Devils would trade with the Flyers in most circumstances; but they - along with Ottawa, Detroit, and Pittsburgh - can't take much back.
Fortunately for the Devils, there are plenty of teams with lots of cap space per CapGeek - at first glance:
Yeah, there are 13 teams with at least $9 million in cap space. Clearly, a number of these teams are operating under self-imposed budget limits and a number of these teams are satisfied with the amount they've spent. What really cuts down the list of potential targets is the roster size. Of these 13 teams, 5 have at least 23 players on their active roster. Those 5 teams - Florida, Edmonton, Anaheim, Dallas, and the New York Islanders - don't have to do anything they don't want to do. They have a full roster and they are well under the salary cap upper limit; they are ready for 2010-11. So for the Devils to make a trade with either of those teams, Lou has to be prepared to take someone back (not desirable right now) or those teams have to have plans to move or demote someone else on the roster in response.
I don't know who is and who is not operating under a self-imposed budget; I would think those teams aren't going to be willing to take on more salary. There is one team who have to take on salary, though: the Colorado Avalanche. The salary cap also has a floor and for this season, it's $43.4 million. Colorado has to add $2.12 million to get to that floor. They also has two spots open on their active roster, which is good. What they decide with Peter Mueller could change their situation completely, though. He's a restricted free agent who made $1.7 million last season. If the Avalanche give him a healthy raise (not sure why they would, but whatever), then they can be over the floor and don't necessarily need to add salary.
My point is that it's going to be difficult for the Devils to make a deal with any of these teams, even though they each have significant amount of cap space available.
Don't Get Attached to the Prospects & Draft Picks
In addition to the reality that since most of the league does not have to add salary to their roster along with 5 other teams being over the salary cap right now, the Devils has very little leverage for trades. Since the Devils absolutely must get rid of salary, Lou will have to be willing to give up some additional assets along with the contracts he wants to move.
Now, I understand some Devils fans are excited about prospects like Alexander Urbom, and have hopes for Jacob Josefson or Adam Henrique as possible third line centers this season. A quick glance at HF's top 20 list shows that quite a few of these players have pro potential to some degree (thanks devsfan9). Don't mistake me, I think developing prospects is important and I have no problems with prospects being given a shot when they are ready.
However, all prospects are unknown assets to some degree. We actually don't know whether Urbom, Josefson, Tedenby, Corrente, Eckford, Henrique, Palmieri, Burlon, and so forth will make it in the NHL, much less hit their ceilings. Ilya Kovalchuk is most definitely a known asset, and if his re-signing means the Devils have to part with a few unknown assets, then I'm prepared to see that happen. Would I like to see Tedenby or Josefson elsewhere? Of course not. But if they have to be thrown in for someone else to take Zubrus' or someone else's contract, then I would understand.
The Devils could do the same, only with the even more-unknown asset of draft picks. I would prefer to see the Devils give up their first round pick for 2011 or 2012 before giving up a near-ready prospect in a deal. However, those picks may not even be New Jersey's in a few weeks. The NHL hasn't given up on possibly penalizing the Devils for the first Kovalchuk contract being rejected for circumvention. While there won't be any penalty to the salary cap, one of the possible penalties is a loss of draft picks. Given that the NHL has until September 17 to decide on any kind of penalty per Gulitti, draft picks probably won't be part of any trade package before that date.
Either way, the main point is that the Devils don't have the luxury to just say "Who wants Zubrus or Salvador" and expect teams to line up with offers. The Devils may very well have to sweeten the proverbial pot, so be prepared for that to happen.
Hey, What About Trading Brian Rolston, His Cap Hit Would Be...
Stop. He's got a no trade clause. Unless Brian Rolston plans on waiving it anytime soon, this is not an option. I understand that clearing $5.0625 million would be fantastic. Unless I'm mistaken, that would require someone on the Devils to waive a NTC for the first time in the history of the organization. It would also require someone to want Rolston's ugly contract too. Please don't suggest this (or Colin White for that matter, who only makes $100,000 more than Salvador).
Yes, the Devils could waive Brian Rolston, and even if someone picks him up on re-entry waivers, the Devils would save $2.5 million. I'm not sure the Devils would be keen on paying $2.5 million for Rolston being on someone else's team, plus it would open an active roster spot with the Devils still being under the cap. It's not a very good option, in my opinion, for that reason.
What About Albany?
There is another way to clear salary space: demote players. The Devils could send Bryce Salvador and/or Dainius Zubrus (among others) to Albany, and clear enough salary cap space without having to deal with anyone. I'm not sure how willing ownership would be to pay Salvador $2.9 million or Zubrus $3.4 million to play in the minors. I'm not sure how willing Lou would be to move NHL-caliber players, players of some use to the team, to the AHL and take up some other developing player's spot. Most of all, I'm not sure how willing the players themselves would be to report to the AHL. They can definitely still be useful to the Devils, much less the Devils.
So, yes, it's also an option, but I'm not really confident in it as a viable option.
The Main Point
By now, you may have noticed that most of these aren't really favorable options for the Devils. They're not. If nothing else, know this main point: the New Jersey Devils do not have the luxury of making a favorable deal. The Devils may have to make trades where they are the "losers." They may have to make some transactions that hurt the team to some degree. They may have to wait until the last possible moment, since most other teams aren't in the Devils' situation. Feel free to speculate on possible deals. Please leave your thoughts on what you want the Devils to do, and what you hope they don't. However, understand that they aren't in full control of their situation.
The Devils have one clear goal now by the start of the season, to get under the salary cap. All we can hope to do is that the Devils don't lose too badly in the deals they have to make, and that Travis Zajac - the most attractive asset - is still lining up at center for New Jersey.
In Lou we Trust.
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Comments
A minor case of dyslexia makes a big difference. Capgeek says 2,968,333 is available. I think you transposed the 6 and 9.
Also, TG reported (about halfway down the page) that Pelley’s cap hit was only $525K, capgeek has never caught up:
According the numbers on the Rod Pelley’s registered contract, he’s earning $525,000 in both seasons of his new contract and not $525,000 the first year and $575,000 the second season, which was reported on CapGeek.
That makes his cap hit $525,000 per season and not $550,000.
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On Pelley
nhlpa.com seems to agree since his 10-11 salary is listed at $252K.
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Good points. But it’s not dyslexia, it’s a typo. I’ll fix it later.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Sep 5, 2010 1:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Updated
Thanks Frank. It’s, well, obvious from the strikethroughs, but the errors are fixed.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
I still don't get the Zajac rumors...
Who made them up? But I don’t want to get into a 3 paragraph rant on why Zajac isn’t getting traded. The Avalanche seem like the perfect team to dump salary on. I have a question though… If the Devils trade a 1st round pick to a team like the Avs and the NHL takes away that draft pick… Will the Avs lose the Devils pick?
My ideal trade offer to the Avalanche would be..
Dainus Zubrus, Bryce Salvador, and Tyler Eckford
FOR
Ryan Wilson and a conditional draft pick
Thoughts on this?
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 5, 2010 12:41 PM EDT reply actions
Also...
I went over to Mile High Hockey and found this. If you look down and see their trade offers, people WANT Brian Rolston. I know I know NTC but he has been an Av before. If they accepted a Brian Rolston, Urbom, and a 1st for Kyle Cumiskey.. Would you accept it?
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 5, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
That's pretty cool
We can only hope that Avs management feels the same way as their fans over at Mile High Hockey. I’d much rather not have to give up Urbom AND a 1st rounder, though. That’s a bit much. Why would we need Cumiskey in return? Give Colorado as little as possible to just take Rolston off our hands. We’re not looking to get any players in return, just shed salary.
"Everything is status quo." - Lou Lamoriello
"*Heavy groan*" - The Entirety of Devils Nation
Cumiskey is good and would give us a proven guy who can score on d, but Rolston, Urbom (who’s, by Lou’s judgement, our BEST prospect), AND a first for just him?
Completely insane offer. I know the thing we’d get out of it is mainly cap space, but really?
A more reasonable, and more realistic, offer would be Rolston, a mid level d prospect (Eckford, Taormina etc), and a second for Cumiskey and maybe like a 4th/5th. That I would do in a heartbeat. Hell, even without the pick coming back I’d do it.
+1
Urbom makes it tough and the 1st blows it out of the water. Although supposedly next year’s draft isn’t the best either.
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 5, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The first is tough, but as you and John say, prospects are unproven, and if next year’s draft isn’t deep, I could part with a first. But if Lou has the cajones to say that Urbom is our best prospect above Tedenby and Josefsen, I don’t wanna risk trading him and regretting it down the road. At least if you trade a pick, we almost guarantee (given the devil’s track record) the Avs would be picking in the lower end of that round.
They are taking on a guy who’s making at least $4999999 $2 million more than he should be and the Devils are taking on a low salary player too (Cuminskey’s cap hit $600 K). Of course they’re going to want some compensation, that’s how salary dumps work.
In Lou We Trust: Continuing a saga no one really cares about
If the quality of my posts begin to get better, it's because i'm doing steroids.
by Kevin Sellathamby on Sep 5, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
And I’m not debating that. But I don’t think I’m in the minority when I say that Rolston + a first round + OUR BEST PROSPECT for one DECENT player is too much compensation.
Rolston + a first + a mid level prospect is fine. That I could sleep with.
Urbom is one of our top 5 prospects, but not our best.
In Lou We Trust: Continuing a saga no one really cares about
If the quality of my posts begin to get better, it's because i'm doing steroids.
by Kevin Sellathamby on Sep 5, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think the Avs would ask for Urbom in return. They have a boatload of talented prospects at D. If anything, they’ll be looking for Tedenby or Josefson in return.
I would not accept a deal involving us sending over the equivalent of two first rounders in exchange for getting Rolston off our books. More than the NTC, I think that’s the bigger issue in trying to trade Rolston. And if I were another team, I wouldn’t accept a single first-rounder as compensation for taking on Rolston’s contract or even a 1st + 2nd to take him on, especially since the draft picks are expected to be late in each round. I would want a top prospect that’s a couple of years into development, which I’m not willing to give since very few of our prospects are locks or near-locks to be regular NHLers.
I still don’t get the Zajac rumors… Who made them up?
Hint: he’s a fraud.
In Lou We Trust: Continuing a saga no one really cares about
If the quality of my posts begin to get better, it's because i'm doing steroids.
by Kevin Sellathamby on Sep 5, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
BURNSIDE!!!
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis
OOOO
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 5, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was thinking someone with an equally low IQ and constantly writes under a pen name.
In Lou We Trust: Continuing a saga no one really cares about
If the quality of my posts begin to get better, it's because i'm doing steroids.
by Kevin Sellathamby on Sep 5, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
EKLUND!
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis
Actually, I’m pretty sure it’s the NYPost that keeps throwing Zajac’s name in the mix of possibilities.
Eklund did float a ridiculous Elias-to-Edmonton rumor though.
You know what would make this easier? Links. Like to a column. Like this one.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Sep 6, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
cap space
rollie, i’m sure that the devils would jump all over that one and that the avalance would hang up the phone…i think that lou will offer salvador for anyone who will take his contract in exchange for a face saving 7th round draft pick…they can waive him (or white, for that matter) to albany, white may have a no trade deal, not a no-movement contract…zubrus will be harder to trade because he has more years and more money to move, a buyout is possible but i think unlikely because of the ‘dead cap’ hit they’d have for six years…a loan to aeuropean team is one idea that has no cap hit for the devils if zubrus were willing to do that and lou could find a european team that had interest
by don in central jersey on Sep 5, 2010 12:53 PM EDT reply actions
Sending White to Albany sounds great to me as long as his cap hit goes with him.
Dear Brian Rolston, please waive your no trade clause and leave New Jersey. Love, everyone.
by thejerseydevil on Sep 5, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
the cap space would go with white/salvador to albany since either of them were 35+ age guys when the contract went into effect (unlike rolston)
by don in central jersey on Sep 5, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
i meant to say the cap hit would go with them if they went to albany, the cap space would go back to the devils…sorry ’bout that
by don in central jersey on Sep 5, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotcha. This would be the move I’d make then. Having Salvador, White, Fraser, and Corrente is redundant. Sending White to Albany in a mentor role is a win all around in my opinion. It would take 3 mil off our books before having to trade a single player. Plus we all know White is as far at the tail end of his career as he can be without actually retiring. It’s sad because of the injury, but still true.
Dear Brian Rolston, please waive your no trade clause and leave New Jersey. Love, everyone.
by thejerseydevil on Sep 5, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Love Zubris and Zajac
Would hate to see them go.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
One more item for your main point
Any comparison of the Devils opening night roster (including prospects in Albany), has to be made with a Kovy-less version of the Devils. For example, trading Salvador for a 5th round draft pick essentially means it’s like having Salvador OR having Kovy and the draft pick. If you look at it from that perspective, the net difference is more palatable.
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Zubrus
From this shady nook, I see an awful lot of love for Dainius Zubrus, and frankly, I just don’t get it. Sure, he looked good against Philly in the playoffs…. but he’s been in New Jersey for three seasons, and bounced from Philadelphia to Montreal to Washington to Buffalo for a decade before that. We know what Dainius Zubrus is at this stage — he’s a massive tease with loads of potential but it doesn’t always translate. There are stretches of time (from shifts to months) where he essentially does not show up, and then he’ll drop a another stretch of time on you where he looks like a guy who was drafted midway through the first round in 1996 (ahead of such luminaries as Danny Briere, Colin White, Zdeno Chara, just to name three from the early rounds), such as the four-goal outburst against Tampa two years back. P.S.: Zubrus scored 11 goals in his other 81 games that season.
Anyhow, my thought is that if some team will take Dainius Zubrus off our hands, and without us having to sell the farm in the process, I’ll drive the guy to the airport. Heck, I’d think about driving him to whatever city and club takes him in direct. It isn’t that I don’t like the guy, but I do think he’s vastly overpaid, and that anyone who expects the player we saw during five games against Philadelphia is going to be deeply disappointed. Moreover, he’s the third-line center as the roster stands now…. is he really that big of a loss?
I don't understand how Zubrus is a tease
I don’t know why you expect him to be a 60pt player. He’s a 40 pt player who’s play off the puck probably allows his teammates to put in another 20-25 goals.
Him not scoring, is not him not showing up. He does a lot on the ice, especially around the boards where he’s among the leagues best. Of course I’d love for him to score more, but that’s not who he is but that doesn’t make him any less valuable.
Absolutely agree
Esp. with him being one of the best along the boards. Wouldn’t mind seeing him on a line with Kovy…his main job being to simply get Kovy the puck.
"You're next." -Scott Stevens
by MikePelusoTears on Sep 5, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Dainius Zubris is roughly a 15-25-40 player, and that’s if he plays on the 2nd line with sufficient time on the power play. If we’re going to complain about Rolston being overpaid with what he puts up, why is a $3.4 million “power forward” who has averaged a point per two games of his Devils’ tenure, and often less than that throughout his career (a season-plus with Ovechkin on his left wing being the exception) any better?
Clarkson can give you Zubrus’ production and a physical edge on top of it. Rolston could replicate Zubrus’ numbers with third-line duty on time on the point on the PP — and we’re almost certainly stuck with Rolston. Heck, you could slot Josefson or Henrique in on the third line and you’d likely get production close to Zubie’s “numbers” for less than a million.
I don’t want to hear about all these wonderful “intangibles”, like how terrific his board play is. “Among the league’s best”? Please. How do you even measure that, and how would you put it into a standardized metric one could prove and then use to evaluate Dainius against the other players in the League?
And what else does Zubie contribute? He’s got a whopping two goals on the power play the last two seasons, so he hasn’t shown much value for being a big body in front of the net creating deflections and pouncing on rebounds. Zubrus doesn’t kill penalties, either. He’s just a big tease, in my book.
I don’t know why you expect him to be a 60pt player.
I don’t expect it based on his past results — he’s made it to 60 points once in his career. His paycheck suggests he ought to be a 60-point player, but he was never going to be what he was expected to at the time of his signing (i.e., Scott Gomez’s replacement).
Not that Brian Rolston is any better, mind you…. but at least Rolston has a history of having made it to the 60-point plateau during his Boston and Minnesota days.
give me a break. first of all, you think josefson or henrique can put up similar numbers to zubrus, which is a pretty blatant falsehood. it’s hard to imagine either of them being any good territorially. neither will be good at faceoffs. second, you say that zubrus can put up 15-25-40 as a 2nd line center, which might be true, except that zubrus has only been a 2nd line center for one year – 2008-09. in 2008, he was used all over. in 2010, he was used all over.
zubrus’s ‘value’, while clearly not 3.4 million, is in his ability to play in any situation, at any forward position, and provide positive results. there aren’t that many players who can do this. zubrus can kill penalties, he can play on the power play, he can play center and wing. note that he doesn’t do any of these things particularly well – he doesn’t score enough as a winger, and he’s not very good at reading the play up the ice as a center.
your last point about rolston is so absurd that i shouldn’t even address it. rolston is 37 years old and turns 38 next season. here is the list of players who’ve scored 60 points in a season since 1996 as 37 years old or older players notice something about this list? it’s basically all hall of fame level players. brian rolston has as much chance of scoring 60 points next season as i do. using career highs as a comparison between a 32 year old and 37 year old is ludicrous.
furthermore, to your point about zubrus being a ‘gomez replacement’ – the devils were in a serious bind when gomez left because free agent centers are hard to come by. all of the centers signed in the summer of 2007 turned out to be bad deals, but that’s what happens when there’s limited supply and huge demand.
Why is it “a pretty blatant falsehood” that Josefson or Henrique could put up 40 points? If one of them is centering the third line, he will have the ice time and opportunity to put up some numbers, and linemates who are capable of scoring. Maybe 40 is a bit of a stretch, but it isn’t exactly unknown for Devils’ forwards to appear on the scene and have strong first seasons. Some examples:
Travis Zajac: 17-25-42 in 2006-2007
Scott Gomez: 19-51-70 in 1999-2000
Nicklas Bergfors: 13-14-27 in 54 games with NJ, 8-9-17 in 27 games with Atl last season. Add them together and you get 21-23-44 in 81 games…. or extrapolate Nicklas’ NJ numbers out to 81 games on their own and you still have 19-21-40.
If you add Brian Gionta’s first two seasons together (33 games in 2001-2002, 58 games in 2002-2003), he had 16-20-36. Admittedly 91 games over two years, but you get the idea.
You can also go a little further back in time and get Petr Sykora’s rookie year (‘95-’96), when he was a wee lad of 19.
For the curious, Zach Parise only put up 14-18-32 in 2005-2006.
Getting back to my main point, there’s a pretty sizable list of players who have put up 40 points in their rookie season since the lockout. You’re looking at 26 forwards in five seasons, or roughly five forwards per year. There’s no reason why the Devils can’t have one of them next year. Suffice to say, the Devils have at least a partial history of prospects coming to the NHL level and putting up decent numbers their first season if placed in a role where they have the chance to score. I see no particular reason why a rookie centering the third line (and getting some PP time) would be any different.
You undermine your own argument about Zubrus being valuble because he can do so many things by referring to the notion he doesn’t do any of them well. If he was making half of what he does, that wouldn’t be such a big deal, but $3.4 million per season (and for another 3 years!) is an albatross on the cap. Sure, there aren’t a ton of players who can adequately perform in all those roles…. but “adequate” isn’t much of a standard. Give me someone who will excel at one or two things if he’s raking in the big dollars, or otherwise give me someone who will be more cost-effective.
I don’t expect Brian Rolston to make it anywhere near 60 points, either. I’m just saying that history shows he’s capable of doing it, while history doesn’t show Zubrus is. Insofar as the “Gomez Replacement”, that’s simply another indication that Lou has a spotty track record importing free agents from other clubs. His record is particularly suspect when going onto the free agent market to replace a significant player who just fled New Jersey for other cities, if you recall the Niedermeyer fiasco. Sure, the centers signed that summer have turned out to be bad deals, but that doesn’t justify Zubrus at all. It simply says that in hindsight, the Devils should have stayed out of those particular waters and found another way to plug that hole.
I don’t expect Brian Rolston to make it anywhere near 60 points, either. I’m just saying that history shows he’s capable of doing it, while history doesn’t show Zubrus is. Insofar as the "Gomez Replacement", that’s simply another indication that Lou has a spotty track record importing free agents from other clubs. His record is particularly suspect when going onto the free agent market to replace a significant player who just fled New Jersey for other cities, if you recall the Niedermeyer fiasco. Sure, the centers signed that summer have turned out to be bad deals, but that doesn’t justify Zubrus at all. It simply says that in hindsight, the Devils should have stayed out of those particular waters and found another way to plug that hole.
zubrus could score 60 points if he were put with kovalchuk full time. he did it with ovechkin.
but anyway, addressing your last point, there was no other way. the devils in 2007 had a barren farm system. they had no trade pieces. they had no other way of getting a center. so they got one. unfortunately sutter didn’t really give him a chance and put him at wing for most of the season, moving him around from line to line.
zubrus is a good territorial player – last season his fenwick was .540. granted he spent some time with parise and zajac, which certainly helped, but zubrus has been a positive territorial player all 3 seasons he’s spent with new jersey. i would be shocked if any of the rookie players could be positive territorially unless they were well protected. i don’t care about 40 points versus 45 points, or anything like that. i care about getting the puck into the offensive zone and making things happen at even strength.
You undermine your own argument about Zubrus being valuble because he can do so many things by referring to the notion he doesn’t do any of them well. If he was making half of what he does, that wouldn’t be such a big deal, but $3.4 million per season (and for another 3 years!) is an albatross on the cap. Sure, there aren’t a ton of players who can adequately perform in all those roles…. but "adequate" isn’t much of a standard. Give me someone who will excel at one or two things if he’s raking in the big dollars, or otherwise give me someone who will be more cost-effective.
no i don’t, i’m just actually speaking truth. i think zubrus would be an ideal 3rd line center next season. he can handle tough-ish minutes and his line would free up kovalchuk to take the softest minutes possible. kovalchuk’s on a 15 year contract and parise’s due for one next season – throw the hard minutes to parise and zajac, throw the second hardest to a zubrus-clarkson line, and let kovalchuk handle the softest ones. he could score 50 with that kind of arrangement. without zubrus, we’re forced to give those soft minutes which would go to kovalchuk to a rookie.
most of the rookies on your list were older than 19. josefson is 19, henrique is 20. henrique probably projects as a 40 point player for his career, although he would probably get a chance to play with either elias, kovalchuk, or parise at points during his season which could boost his point total considerably. i would much rather acquaint these two players with the rigors of north american professional hockey. i think both players have an excellent shot at being long-term NHL players.
zubrus is overpaid, but the effort is there, and his versatility makes up for what he lacks in pure production. the team should do everything it can to get rid of brian rolston before trading zubrus.
Put Zub on Kovys line and he will break 60 points this season.
"You're next." -Scott Stevens
by MikePelusoTears on Sep 6, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes but we all know Arnott will center that line. I think the point acasser is trying to make is for a 3rd line center who is poor at faceoffs and does little in regards to the powerplay making 3.4 million is a ridiculous. Also sounds like you guys are suggesting we should keep Zubrus cause we signed him and he makes what he makes. As far as Rolston goes least he hits the net with his shot alot and with his quantity of shots he has a much better likelyhood of scoring 30 again. I also think that Arnott, langs, Clarkson can play the corners better than Zubrus.
by KingHellfire on Sep 7, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, he had a great playoff, and was possibly the only Devil that showed up for the playoffs at all, but bottom line, it’s more likely we’ll be back to the Zubrus of old come this season. So if we can get him off our hands now while other teams are still seeing the Zubrus of the 2010 playoffs, let’s get it done.
Dear Brian Rolston, please waive your no trade clause and leave New Jersey. Love, everyone.
by thejerseydevil on Sep 5, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see why
we should completely throw out the notion of trading Zajac. Lou has never been one to shy away from the big trade and Zajac might be the one player who gives the Devils leverage to get some value in return. Also, the later it gets towards the start of the season, the less options available for the Devils, and the Devils may not be able to trade draft picks because of the impending penalties that could be imposed.
What I was thinking was if the Devils could package Zajac and Salvador together, perhaps they could get Mark Streit from the Islanders. This saves 2.688 mil. The remaining amount could be removed by placing Salmela down in minors until they have cleared the 10k or so left to get under the cap, which comes out to like 3 or 4 days of the season.
When you go down the roster, the Devils have numbers at wing and on defense, and a relative weakness down the middle. It makes far more sense to deal from a position where there is a surplus, rather than weakening the team by dealing from an already thin center-ice position. If you trade Zajac, you go into the season with Arnott as your #1 center, and either Zubrus or Elias as your #2 — expecting Josefson or Henrique to be able to jump to the NHL and play the #2 center position is a fantasy.
Beyond that, you create an even bigger problem for “down the road”. If you trade Zajac now, and Arnott departs via free agency after the season, you are left without a legitimate center for either of the top two lines. Maybe Josefson and Henrique become those, but I wouldn’t want to put all my eggs into that particular basket.
What I was thinking was if the Devils could package Zajac and Salvador together, perhaps they could get Mark Streit from the Islanders.
Creative, outside-the-box thinking, yes. I don’t see why the Isles would trade Streit, however, even for Travis Zajac. In addition, if you look at the Isles on CapGeek, they already have a sufficient number of players to fill out a roster, so I don’t see much of a benefit to them in trading one-for-two.
I also think Mark Streit is an excellent value for his cap hit, when you consider what he brings to the Islanders. He’s their only genuine offensive threat from the blue line, and he eats a ton of minutes…. so I don’t know that Zajac would be enough to make such a trade if you’re also asking the Islanders to absorb Salvador’s contract.
This saves 2.688 mil. The remaining amount could be removed by placing Salmela down in minors until they have cleared the 10k or so left to get under the cap, which comes out to like 3 or 4 days of the season.
Up above, John went through why the Devils can’t just toss one salary to barely wriggle below the cap line. To recap — teams can’t take that risk because it hamstrings their ability to make moves in-season. Consider the peculiar case of the 2008-2009 Calgary Flames, who found themselves in precisely that bind shortly after trading for Olli Jokinen. When they got hit with a couple of short-term injuries (maybe the flu bug, I’m not entirely certain), they went a week or so where they only dressed 17-18 players for a game because they didn’t have the cap space to bring up reinforcements from the Minors.
Anssi Salmela will likely start the season on the injured list. Whether or not he is activated and placed into the lineup, or activated and sent to Albany depends on the moves Lou makes, plus which rookies make the team and how well they are playing.
If its for Streit then yeah
I love Mark and would love to see him here. But Tavares is the number 1 and Bailey the number 2. So they could slot them down one. The only players I would want back for Zajac would be Streit, Backes, or Little. Thats a very creatice idea though.
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 5, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Lets trade from a position that we’re weak at. Smart.
In Lou We Trust: Continuing a saga no one really cares about
If the quality of my posts begin to get better, it's because i'm doing steroids.
by Kevin Sellathamby on Sep 5, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Ba-da- Bing Ba-da Boom we got Streit.
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 5, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s no way we would get an equal level player by trading Zajac at this point. Plus, that would completely destroy the chemistry between Zajac, Parise, and Langenbrunner. Bad idea all around.
"Everything is status quo." - Lou Lamoriello
"*Heavy groan*" - The Entirety of Devils Nation
The “chemistry” involved isn’t a reason to make or not make a trade. Frankly, if you’re worried about disrupting the roster and what it might do to the chemistry, perhaps you should look at last season’s Opening Night and figure out how many players who skated that night for the Good Guys are still with the franchise.
Here’s a hint: you won’t need to take off your shoes and socks to count it.
And....
Did any of the Devils have consistent chemistry with a line last year w/Lemaire? He was constantly changing lines and seeing what he had. Yes it would break up the chemistry between him and Parise. But look at what you could get back.. A 60 point defenseman in Streit. Its just rumors about Zajac but you never know with Lou around. And if you go around the league and offfer Zajac, you’ll be surprised at what fans are offering.
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 5, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying chemistry alone should dictate whether or not you make a trade. Even with all the line switching last year, Zajac performed very well. With the weak position NJ is in right now in the trade market, there’s no way we’d be able to get equal value back, so we might as well keep him.
"Everything is status quo." - Lou Lamoriello
"*Heavy groan*" - The Entirety of Devils Nation
I agree
All I’m saying is that if we get a good return back like Streit in my dreams we have to consider it. And Zajac could show up in the regular season but what has he done in the playoffs?
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 5, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
We can't trade Zajac, trading Zajac sets us back 5 steps.
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis
who cares about paying rolston 2.5 million to be on someone else’s team? he costs 5 million here. does he give new jersey 5 million dollars worth of production? no, he does not. not anywhere close. and now with kovalchuk on the team, he’s not a top 6 forward anymore. so the question is not about paying rolston to be on someone else’s team – because that’s irrelevant since the remaining $10 million on rolston’s contract is basically a sunk cost – it’s about how much more production can they get out of those 2.5 million dollars? given the roster constraints the devils are under, i think they can get far more use of that space with him gone.
i don’t think anyone will trade for him. me, maybe i’d try to deal rolston and a 1st for rosti olesz.
Rostislav Olesz?
Interesting. I’m sure Tallon would do that but Olesz is pretty young. I would do that trade.
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 5, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
hell i don’t even think we’d need the 1st round pick. olesz is over 25 so a buyout is for 2/3rds of his contract, not 1/3rd. rolston + salvador for olesz + reinprecht? maybe?
What's Olesz's contract?
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 5, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously?
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=rostislav+olesz+contract
capgeek says olesz would still be eligible for a 25 and under buyout after this season. so if he isn’t any good, they could get rid of him for very cheap – it’d be a 6 year buyout, but very cheap. in that case, maybe they would need the 1st round pick in the deal.
I’m not particularly interested in Rosti Olesz — he looks like another vastly overpaid third-liner to me, and the Devils have enough to begin with. Nor, for that matter, do I want to see another buyout clogging the Devils’ cap. There are enough issues with this year’s club and the buyouts that weigh on the cap, so the last thing we need to do is drop another $650k in dead space through the next two presidential elections.
I like Reinprecht an awful lot, however, and he’d be the type of guy I’d want to center the third line and work the PK. Maybe it’s because he’s an ex-Badger like me, but that’s the kind of guy I want on this team.
i don’t like olesz either, but there aren’t many ways to trade brian rolston, and that’s the goal of this exercise.
Actually, the exercise is to figure out how the Devils can get under the cap. Rolston’s just one way, and a way that I don’t think is likely. In fact, that’s why I wrote the following:
Hey, What About Trading Brian Rolston, His Cap Hit Would Be…
Stop. He’s got a no trade clause. Unless Brian Rolston plans on waiving it anytime soon, this is not an option. I understand that clearing $5.0625 million would be fantastic. Unless I’m mistaken, that would require someone on the Devils to waive a NTC for the first time in the history of the organization. It would also require someone to want Rolston’s ugly contract too. Please don’t suggest this (or Colin White for that matter, who only makes $100,000 more than Salvador).
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In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Sep 6, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
If they trade Zajac, you might as well say goodbye to Parise next season.
Devil for Life
by st.pattysdaymassacre26 on Sep 5, 2010 7:29 PM EDT reply actions
Rangers still need to move at least one body, they haven’t re-signed Marc Staal yet so their cap numbers don’t reflect his contract (likely $4-$5 million cap hit).
As for us, I agree that Zubrus and Salvador are the most likely targets although its Lou so I could see a “miracle” happening with Rolston going to Colorado (thats the only possible destination though, and its still better odds he’s still on the Devils opening night).. I have a hunch that once Lou clears $5 million or so in cap space that Mottau will re-sign. As long as he isn’t overworked (20+ minutes a game) I think that would be a smart move, he knows the system/team and (more importantly) he’s a known commodity and we know what we’re getting. This leaves us with between $1 and $2 million to fill out the bottom 6 forwards.
Good point about the Rangers, but I think everyone is expecting them to banish Redden to the minors once Staal signs.
This Article is Comical
I would not expect anything less from a writer like yourself who think’s Paul Martin was a severe loss. What in the HELL has Travis Zajac done in three years that makes him not expendable? True, he is a young player ..still trying to get beetter. However a first round center that has been in this league should be able to win at least two consecutive critical face -off’s. He has to shoot more and when he does we all pray that he does NOT just do his usual ..slap shot into the breadbasket. The guy is lost it seems in front of the net. Parise really makes him look better than he really is. Has he improved? Yes to some degree, but he has been lost and did he even show up in the playoffs? So how could he NOT be expendable? Josefson is better than him right now. Is Henrique ready? No, but I can’t see him being worse than Zajac. The kid can play the damn game and he has a bit of a nastiness in front of the net. Do I want to see Travi leave? No. However,it’s not like he is Wayne Gretzky. Oh yeah, Wayne did get traded. Travi needs to improve on the face off this year or he should be gone next year.
“Don’t get attached to propsects?” That is pretty stupid. The Devils are in a position where they need to bring them along even more now since of their pay scale. Palms, Josefson, Urbom, Corrente, Zharkov, Henrique. Eckford, Frazee and Tedenby are not going anywhere..anytime soon. Are you kidding me? Really, Lou sends down Tommy to ALbany for what? WOW..to help along THE SWEDES!!!!! HELLO!!! ARE YOU THAT BLIND AND STUPID? There is NO reason on earth to even doubt that fact, so why in the hell even bring up a scenario like that? The Devils need their young players. PERIOD!! Umm, Devs fans..dont’ listen to this…get attached with them.
However, with all of that being said….Salvador is nothing that Colin White is not or actually used to be since his eye injury. It’s a damn shame too because COlin is a good person. However he is not what he used to be. He and Sal are interchangeable to either one could be gone. Sal had a terrible year last year and he did not play how is expected to play in the playoffs. Quite frankly..he was a Flyers rag doll. It was embarassing. Seems as though YOU sir are attached to vet’s who don’t have it.
Rolston screwed this team because he was suppossed to be a center, not a wing when he was signed. We gave him a horrible contract and we can only hope that some cheap ass team takes him off our hands. For some reason, I think he can be done as you illustrated with Colorado or another low ball team.
Zubes? He has never really gotten better since he left Philly. In Washington he had success because he played with OV. In fact Zubes did not find his game until Ilya got here. We signed Zubes to a bad deal and it would not hurt at all if he stayed or if he went elsewhere.
Bottom line, we will be under the cap when we need to be under the cap. Lou has done nothing but imrpove this team on every level. Paul Martin is not a loss, because Mr. Eckofrd can be just as effective as Martin would be right now and he has upside. Paula could not even set up a power play consistantly. So we let Paula leave and we sign the BEST young stay at home ..shot blocking D man in the league. WOW, is Paul even in the top ten of offensive d men? Not even close. Tallinder is better than Paula as well. Lou has IMRPOVED this team.
The New Jersey Devils are NOT giving up their young talent, it’s the vet’s who never had it that are leaving. The vet’s that were not good enough are gone.
To think, even suggest, that the Devs would give up young players like Josefson, Urbom, Tedenby, Henrique, etc is just comical. Very good-to great young players with cheap contracts…WOW….yup, gotta get offer them.
"It's not just about stopping their shots. It's about breaking their confidence level." - Martin Brodeur.
by VivaSaintMartin30 on Sep 5, 2010 9:51 PM EDT reply actions
Does anyone want to respond?
Anyone?
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Sep 5, 2010 10:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
umm...
First off losing Paul Martin was a huge blow and what made it even worse was the fact that he went to the Pens. So to think that losing Martin was not a big blow is nuts and we all should have stopped reading right there but I’ll continue…
Travis Zajac’s stats for this year are similar to player who make a ton more money than he does so to say that Zajac hasn’t done anything, is completely wrong. Zajac had 2 less points than Ryan Getzlaf and 1 less point than Toews so if Zajac hasn’t done anything then I guess Ryan Getzlaf and Toews haven’t done anything either, according to your logic. Yes, Zach Parise might make Zajac look better but anyone is going to play better when Parise is on your wing. And look at Getzlaf he has Correy Perry and Toews has Kane.
If your really think that the Devils are going to be able to hold onto their prospects you clearly aren’t in business. Right now whoever the Devils are going to deal with, they are going to want something in return, like prospects, to take on the Devils excess cap hits. Lets just say that Colorado wants Zubrus but doesn’t like his cap hit, don’t you think they will like it a little better if they know they will also be getting a prospect or draft picks in return for helping the Devils.
We all know that Salvador was a major weak link in the Devils defeat to the flyers so his departure would be great but who is going to want to take him without prospects or picks.
We all know that Rolston’s contract sucks…no need to beat a dead horse…
Will Lou get us under the cap? Of course he will, that is what makes him one of the best if not the best GM in hockey. Will the moves that Lou will make hurt more than help? More than likely since we are in a bit of a bind now and it might be worse next year when we need to resign Parise. So some of the moves that Lou makes will probably ultimately suck but in the long run we knew that we would in be some financial hell (no pun intended) if we tried to sign Kovy.
by brodeurman89 on Sep 5, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention Zajac put up a 52.9 face-off win percentage and was the 13th highest in the league in face-offs taken (T. with Mike Richards, but Richards posted 50.9 win %). It is not like Parise is taking his face-offs for him either. Granted he is not as flashy as Getzlaf or Toews, but he makes up for it b being one of the best 2 way centers in the league.
It is almost impossible to see Henrique ever having the same level of play as Zajac but he could make a great 3rd line center. It is also hard to see Josefson doing the same but I could definitely see him playing on Kovy’s line in the next couple years.
He is not indispensable but, there is really no one out there who can do what he does for under 4 mill. The cost of replacing him would be a lot more. Their are tons of other guys Lou could trade waive, move the minors. Besides the guys already mentioned if Lou is desperate (which I never would believe) Tallinder does not have any ntc or nmc and a lot of teams would like a two way defense-men who mentored a calder winner, especially the low cap teams like Colorado with a lot of defensive prospects.
paul martin
… totally a “huge” loss.. until a couple of hours later when the Devils signed Volchenkov and Tallinder. On this team, right now, Andy Greene can be just as valuable as Martin was when he was here, as a “puck-moving defensemen” which is way less a necessity than a zone-tough defenseman like volchenkov. Although you would think it’s the most important key to winning a cup by reading these posts. The reason the fliers wiped the ice with us in the playoffs is not because we didn’t have a defenseman going coast to coast. It is mostly because pretty much everyone except White was EXTREMELY soft in our defensive Zone… and just to throw this in, it DEFINATELY was not because Kovalchuk interupted the “Great chemistry” we had going. That notion is laughable.
by JUNE24TH1995 on Sep 8, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
on the prospects..
I pay attention to who is in the system, but for the most part I could honestly care less about prospects until they are playing in Newark regularly.
by JUNE24TH1995 on Sep 8, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
We’re all very happy to now know your personal feelings on the team’s prospects. I know that I, for one, was waiting with bated breath to get your take on them, and you didn’t disappoint with your dismissal. However, if I might: the correct phrase is “I couldn’t care less.”
To say that one could care less is like saying you’re in the middle about the whole thing with no strong feelings either way, which would really just be a waste of everyone’s time since not saying anything would accomplish the same thing… and we wouldn’t want people to think you were talking without really saying anything, would we?
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
until a couple of hours later when the Devils signed Volchenkov and Tallinder.
Nope. Still a big loss.
On this team, right now, Andy Greene can be just as valuable as Martin was when he was here, as a "puck-moving defensemen"
That has yet to be seen, but even if that is the case, there was more to Martin’s game than just as a “puck-moving defenseman.” John did a pretty exhaustive series of posts showing how Martin contributed all over the ice just by being on it. Greene has potential, but Martin has historical precedent. If given the choice, I’d take proven consistent talent over unproven potential any day.
which is way less a necessity than a zone-tough defenseman like volchenkov.
It’s a different skill-set and both are beneficial. They’re both, generally speaking, necessities, but if you had to pick one, the cerebral, mobile defenseman is a better bang for the buck (figuratively, of course) than a bruiser.
Although you would think it’s the most important key to winning a cup by reading these posts.
It’s a large part of one. Recent Cup winning teams have employed the likes of Keith, Campbell, Gonchar, Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Scott Niedermayer. Do you really think those teams would have been better off with a Volchenkovian defenseman in their place instead?
What it comes down to is the simple fact that one cannot score when one is chasing the puck in your own defensive zone. Making it hard for opposing forwards to play in your defensive zone is all well and good, as is limiting their shots and/or goals, however, the team also requires some person or persons that can effectively move the puck to transition from team defense to team offense.
The reason the fliers wiped the ice with us in the playoffs is not because we didn’t have a defenseman going coast to coast. It is mostly because pretty much everyone except White was EXTREMELY soft in our defensive Zone
No. The reason, as if there is only one (the PP and PK are primary culprits as well), is because the team as a whole struggled to clear the puck, which led to a reduction in the offensive effectiveness of a team that didn’t have a lot to begin with. It had nothing to do with this vague concept of being “soft,” as if more hitting would have accomplished anything other than to draw even more stupid penalties (if you’ll recall, the refs were very quick with the whistle), and everything to do with not getting the puck out of the zone when they had their chances.
That notion is laughable.
Then why bring it up when no one had previously?
And for the future, paragraph breaks and shorter sentences are your friend.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
by elesias on Sep 8, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But wouldn't you think
with respect to:
and everything to do with not getting the puck out of the zone when they had their chances.
That it should theoretically be easier to get the puck out of you own end once Volchankov has knocked one of the opposing players on his hind quarters? It sure seemed that way when Stevens was doing it.
As I said elsewhere in another post (and my opinion only), the Devils are going to be able to keep their opponents out of their zone more in the first place with their defensively tuned corps, which translates into not needing to GET the puck out as much.
Go Devils
Go Jets
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Theoretically, but knocking a guy off the puck and clearing the puck are two different things. How many times in the recent past have we seen the defense with a chance to clear but fail in the execution?
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
k..
good job… but if you watch those playoff games… an awful lot of those fliers goals were due to absolutely NO physicality in the defensive zone. Our defensemen were literally standing around. More hitting may not have helped them win the series, but how could it hurt? I don’t wanna hear that penalty stuff.. sometimes clean hits are called and sometimes they are not. It goes both ways.
I’m not even asking for crushing Stevens hits, obviously isn’t gonna happen again. I just wanna see them perhaps keep the opposing teams players away from Marty. That said, Volchenkov is the best we’ve had in that department since Scotty.
I would argue that during those Cup runs, the way the defensemen played in their own zone was at least as important as what they did in the offensive zone. Also, when the Devils were winning in the playoffs, they were also, like you said, getting scoring on the powerplay and performing well on the PK. Wouldn’t you know it, they were also getting something else they haven’t had for a while… timely scoring from EVERYONE on the team.
In other words, I know that those types of players are great assets for any team to have. I really just don’t think that the Devils are hurting for it right now.
Thank you for ripping me apart. It’s been a pleasure.
I am confident that the team taking the ice on opening day will be able to move the puck up the ice just fine. And now I can also be confident that the d will shut people down once in a while when it counts.
by JUNE24TH1995 on Sep 8, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
hey..
I know you like those paragraph breaks! ..
.. just because I care.
GO DEVILS!
by JUNE24TH1995 on Sep 8, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
oh..
I really don’t think it takes a special type of hockey player to learn how to clear the freaking puck.
by JUNE24TH1995 on Sep 8, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
If that were the case, there wouldn’t be as much importance placed on players who could.
It’s simple in theory, but not in practice. The Devils have suffered much in recent years for their struggles in clearing the puck from the defensive zone when they most need to.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
You talk about being physical and hitting but seem to be specifically referring to removing players from standing in front of the goal, but unfortunately, the rules now protect those players from just that sort of thing. You can poo-poo away the concern about taking penalties, but that series was horribly called, on both sides, and considering how awful the Devils PP and PK both were, taking additional penalties would only have made things worse.
I would argue that during those Cup runs, the way the defensemen played in their own zone was at least as important as what they did in the offensive zone.
And I’d agree, however, what they brought to the team in terms of helping the team transition from the defensive zone to the offensive zone, and even helping score at times, is a difference maker. Not having that type of player, or diminishing the contributions of such a player, is asking for trouble.
Also, when the Devils were winning in the playoffs, they were also, like you said, getting scoring on the powerplay and performing well on the PK. Wouldn’t you know it, they were also getting something else they haven’t had for a while… timely scoring from EVERYONE on the team.
Right. Which is why I countered your original statement that “The reason the fliers wiped the ice with us in the playoffs is… mostly because pretty much everyone except White was EXTREMELY soft in our defensive Zone”.
In other words, I know that those types of players are great assets for any team to have. I really just don’t think that the Devils are hurting for it right now.
And that’s a fair argument—that the addition of Volchenkov can counter the lack of a proven puck-moving defenseman—though I disagree. Volchenkov makes it harder for opposing forwards and can only help the defense, but he brings nothing to the other two zones the game is played in. Losing Martin was big and acquiring Volchenkov was big, but they’re different kinds of big and I’m not sold that the one makes up for the other. I’d be happy to be proven wrong as the season progresses.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
The New Jersey Devils are NOT giving up their young talent, it’s the vet’s who never had it that are leaving. The vet’s that were not good enough are gone.
So out of curiosity, pray tell how some of these “vet’s that were not good enough” get moved without the pot being sweetened by a “Very good-to great young players with cheap contract.” Because a GM is just feeling generous?
by Zelepukin on Sep 5, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Unicorns.
The answer is unicorns.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
Alternate answer is a grammar lesson or two.
Go Devils
Go Jets
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Umm...
I love your intensity but you are terribly wrong.. Zajac has a ton of potential. Yes he hasn’t really shown up in the playoffs except for the OT goal against Carolina. Parise can make everyone better around him, it’s just the way he plays. You really can’t attach yourself to prospects. If you do, you feel heartbroken when they get traded (i.e. Bergfors and Cormier). I still think you wouldn’t trade them but if worse comes to worse, you have to fit Kovy under the cap. I actually thought Salvador was pretty decent last year. What do you want from him? He’s not gonna score 10 goals and put up 30 points. Rolston’s position has NO take in his play. Rolston played center when he got here and it never worked out, so now he is playing the wing. And did you say it was a terrible contract when we signed him? I don’t think so. Zubrus didn’t change nor does he have to. He’s a big lithuanian forward who goes to the net hard. Do you want to change him into a 30 goal scorer? You’ll then lose the grittiness in which we needed in the playoffs. But sure go ahead. Paul Martin was a BIG BIG loss for Lou. The only true offensive defenseman that was proven. He was arguable the best 2 way guy on the Devils since Niedermayer. And please, the guy wanted his money and a shot at the cup. You can’t blame him (Paula?) for doing that. And lastly, don’t count on it. The Devils had no problem trading away Bergfors, Cormier, and Halischuk over the summer. Don’t think for a second Lou won’t trade a Tedenby or Eckford. And BTW, Eckford will NEVER be the same player as Paul was. Lou waited and waited for Nick to come up and play for the Devils, once Kovalchuk came across, Lou had his eyes widened and he went for it. C’mon man, you seem new here. Start off on a better foot instead of wasting our time reading this…
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 5, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you Rollie on everything but, the Brians and the Scotts were “BIG BIG loss(es)”
Paul Martin is a great 2 way defense-men, but Greene showed he could fit in his shoes.
You knew what you were going to get with Martin every year. Good defense and some offensive contributed. Andy Greene was great last year but can he do the same this year?
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 6, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I see your point that Greene is unproved, but I don’t see him just dropping back to 10 points a season and with Tallinder steady 2 way game, a few defensive prospects that have showed some potential, and Volch; it is safe to say despite his loss the defense is improved to he will not be terribly missed.
We’ll see next year how this affects us.
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 6, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally I think Josefson is safe but Henrique would be nice trade bait. I think the other 2 swedes are safe as well. Other than that I don’t see anyone else being safe prospect wise.
I don’t even know what else you wrote but insulting anyone on this blog is pretty childish. Maybe if you could comment more maturely people would take you seriously.
This is honestly the craziest post I've ever seen.
So you’re saying it’s okay to trade a 60 PT center (in line with Toews, Getzlaf, and Koivu) who has chemistry with Parise, but don’t trade prospects who have never seen NHL ice, let alone played on it?
Insanity.
And comical? John is suggesting that we not get attached to players because it’s called a SALARY DUMP. You know, like the title says? The Devils are unfortunately in a spot where they can’t choose good deals, and may have to give up mid to upper level prospects. While I’m with you that they should avoid trading people like Henrique, Tedenby, Urbom, and Josefsen (and Lou probably won’t), there’s no guarantee.
And furthermore, you act like prospects, especially upper level ones, are guaranteed to be great NHL players. Daigle? Stefan?
As it’s been pointed out many a time on this site, a known commodity (Zajac) is better than an unknown one.
Jeez, I’ve heard a lot of player rants but never against Zajac. Or even Martin! We’re ll pissed that he took the same amount of money Lou offered him on a different team, but the chance that Eckford turns into a Paul Martin is proably around 5%, if that. Let’s be realistic and not, as others would say, distracted by the unicorn.
No one will take Rolston so I dont think he will be the one asked to waive his NTC but...
Langenbrunner will be asked to waive it, in my opinion, since he has more value than Rolston and has a more attractive contract. If we can package Langs and Zubrus that might catch interest of some low capped teams that could use the size of Zubrus and the experience of Langenbrunner. Maybe Colorado or Florida since they are young teams and both players would be big assets to their clubs. And if Salvador goes that would be even better.
Langs: $2.8 million
Zubrus: $3.4 million
Salvador: $2.9 million
Which would equal $9.1 million in moved caps space and since we are currently in the red by just under $3 million that leaves us with $6.1 million left in cap space that could be taken up with the players we would get in the trades or free agents that we need to fill up the roster. And of course all the numbers are from capgeek.
They already said Langenbrunner is going to be the captain again...
Why would they trade him after making a statement like that?
by undersuspicion426 on Sep 6, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
ahh...that I did not see.
I didn’t know that he was going to be captain again.
Why is everyone so keen to dump Jamie Langenbrunner? As opposed to all the Devils who have a high cap hit relative to their contributions, Jamie (and all of ZZ Pops for that matter) is a bargain.
Then there’s the matter that Jamie is captain. Trade him now and you disrupt the locker room and team chemistry more than the massive turnover in personnel in the last year might already have done.
Then there’s the matter that Jamie has a no-trade clause and will likely reject most scenarios that you present him with. With free agency upcoming, he’ll have little interest in a rebuilding situation where he might not get the chance to put up numbers because of a “youth movement”. His value is highest to a team that is challenging for the Cup, and most of those teams are pretty much set in their rosters. The only place I could see him making sense in this scenario is Los Angeles.
Then there’s the matter that you’d just as soon let Jamie walk after the season and turn his cap number into raises for Parise and Greene, instead of burning the $2.8 million to cover Kovlachuk.
Colorado might be interested in Zubrus, but I don’t see how Langenbrunner is a major haul for them. He’ll be there one year and depart for greener pastures. As for Florida, they won’t have any interest in two thirty-something forwards given they’ve just started a complete dismantling to rebuild. You might be able to pay them for the privledge, but that will start getting expensive. I imagine one of Florida’s next moves is to deal Vokoun for more prospects and picks as soon as they get an enticing offer.
if zubrus spent all season with zajac and parise, he’d be a ‘bargain’ too. last season showed how much of jamie’s success involved being tied to those two.
not that i think that langenbrunner should be traded, for most of the reasons you describe above. nor do i think langenbrunner is going to ‘greener pastures’ – he’ll be 36, and if he’s not playing with parise and zajac, he’s probably not going to have a great season. there’s not many teams looking to give out multi year deals to 35+ players in this environment.
Langenbrunner has certainly had the best sustained success of his career on the right wing with Parise and Zajac. And I’ll certainly agree that almost anybody you stick in that slot will see a bump in his numbers — Zubrus looked very good in short stints there last year during all the line-juggling. I still doubt that Zubrus is going to put up 60 points playing there a full season, and I wonder if he’ll put up enough numbers in any event to be considered “a bargain” at this stage. In addition, if Zubrus were asked to be the right wing on the #1 line for the whole season, I wonder if our expectations would rise so much that he couldn’t possibly meet them in light of his career trajectory. Also, Zubrus has shown me an alarming tendency to drift and coast through games and weeks, which is impermissible on the top line.
I’d rather see Clarkson given an opportunity to play the right wing with Zach and Zajac before I hand the role to Zubrus. But that’s just me.
As far as Langenbrunner, I think his value at this point in his career would be as a leader in the locker room and a complimentary piece on the ice. The latter can be on the top line, depending on chemistry and the other personnel on a team, but very specifically as a complimentary piece and not as the guy expected to put up 30 goals or 80 points — those numbers just aren’t within his abilities from everything we’ve seen. To that end, his value is highest to a contending club that needs an extra piece or two, and not to a borderline playoff team and especially not to a rebuilding club. He can find a spot on the latter two, but it isn’t the best use of his abilities, and he’d simply turn into a version of Doug Weight: a nice guy to have around, and perhaps a guy to swap at the trade deadline for a prospect or pick, but otherwise irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
zubrus’s territorial stats last season with those two were outstanding. he put up a 59% fenwick while playing with parise, and a 58% fenwick with zajac. that is close to the fabulous numbers put up by chicago’s best lines.
that would be just you wanting to put clarkson, who uses his teammates terribly and thinks that the wrap-around is an effective strategy, on the top line. i like some of what clarkson brings, but i don’t think he is at all a good fit with zajac and parise. he wastes far too many possessions.
langenbrunner would be just fine for an up and coming team. he’s at the age where he will probably not be in anyone’s top 6, but can contending teams afford guys like langenbrunner? many of them are close to the cap even next season, including, of course, new jersey.
I’m not going to get into the territorial possession stuff, because that’s a stat I simply don’t understand and don’t care to take the time to learn. So I’ll concede that argument.
Langenbrunner may be fine for an up-and-coming team next season. I imagine he has a big season in him, because he’s playing for his last significant contract. While I don’t pretend to know his mindset, I suspect he’d veto a deal that has the potential to significantly cut into his role and numbers…. and consider right now that he is the captain of a team expected to contend for the Cup and plays on the first line with one of the best players in the League. I doubt he’s going much of anywhere this season, and certainly not to a team that might choose to play the “kids” in significant roles to “further their development”.
I believe John means for this discussion to focus mostly on this year, however. And to that end, I think a Langenbrunner trade while possible isn’t something in the best interests of the franchise.
Devil moves ....
If we have learned anything in the past is that Lou does the unexpected. Yes Salvador & Zubrus seem the logical moves to get under the cap space I will be bet that one of these players will be moved plus a surprise one.
The surprise one scares me
I don’t know or want to know who’s the “surprise.”
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 6, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Waive Salvador, re-entry waive Rolston if the GMs want to screw us
Such a plan would clear $5.4 M in space this season and next. It doesn’t require Rolston to waive his NTC. And feel free to disagree, but I believe a lot of teams would be willing to take Rolston for a $2.5 M cap hit.
The caveat is that Rolston can’t be re-entry waived until after the deadline to get under the cap. However, creative roster management could get around that. The Devils currently sit $2.97 M over the cap. Without changing the 12 forwards listed on CapGeek, Lou could put Salmela on LTIR and waive Salvador, leaving the team with $545K in cap space (after the bonus cushion) and needing to plug in one defenseman to fill out the minimum 20-man roster. Taormina fits the bill, Eckford does not (by just $5K).
If Rolston is then successfully re-entry waived, then the Devils can use that $2.5M in space to bring in the players that actually earn a spot on the team out of camp – they would need to bring in two forwards and two defensemen (if Taormina is sent back down) with about $3.0M of cap space to make a 22-man roster (including a 13th forward and 7th Dman). Even plugging those holes with our most expensive prospects (Josefson, Tedenby, Corrente, and Urbom) does leave us under the cap.
It’s not an ideal situation, but it is a way to get under the cap without giving up ANY draft picks or prospects. I would prefer to work out some trades, but I suspect the asking prices will involve first-rounders.
this isn’t true about the deadline, but i like the creativity. you’ll get some people complaining about a 20 man roster, but that would only be for a few days, and it’s not the end of the world if the devils have to play with a 19 man roster (they did this in 2007 once or twice).
from the CBA:
The “Playing Season Waiver Period” shall begin on the twelfth (12th) day prior to the start of the Regular Season and end on the day following the last day of a Club’s Playing Season.
there were 15 teams that offered rolston a contract 2 years ago – hard to imagine that now no one is interested in him just 2 years later.
I saw that FrankG had posted and re-posted that….does that mean that Rolston could clear waivers AND re-entry waivers before the first game of the season?
Also, is the deadline to get under the cap the first game of the season or is it at the end of training camp? Or the preseason?
yes, it does mean that. so we could send him through and if no one bites, then we can dump off salvador and zubrus.
the deadline to get under the cap is the end of training camp, according to 50.5.c.ii.B of the CBA
Just to clarify, because it wasn’t clear to me when “the end of training camp” is –
Per this TG post shortly after the Kovy signing became official, the Devils have to be under the cap by Oct 6th – the day before the regular season begins.
So it seems that Lou has 12 days to waive and re-entry waive Rolston, and then try to trade/waive/loan Zubrus if no one bites on Rolston on re-entry. Therefore, there would be no need for the Devils to play any games with a 20-man roster, which makes this plan even better. As much as I’d love to have some cap space to work with at the trade deadline, I’m OK with being tight up against it if we can keep Zubrus.
And to read further into the tea leaves, the same post from TG says -
The Devils’ first training camp practice for veterans is two weeks from today (Sept. 18). Does Lamoriello think he will be able to make the moves to get under the cap before the start of camp?
"All I have to do is we have to be ready for the first day of the season," Lamoriello said. "I’m not going to get into anything of what, where, when or how only because there are no answers at this point until things are done."
So it seems like Lou is prepared to go into training camp without having fully set his roster.
About the other teams...
Vancouver has 9 defensemen listed on CapGeek, including the injured Salo. They’re not forced to make a trade until Salo comes back.
Boston can bite the bullet and waive either Ryder or Sturm to get under the cap. Waiving Sturm won’t give them enough room to replace him with another forward, though.
Similarly, the Flames can waive Staios or Sarich to get under the cap and still have 7 defensemen.
My point is….none of the teams are as backed-up-against-a-wall as they seem. I think opposing GMs will ask for a lot to take these contracts off their hands, but when push comes to shove, the teams (including the Devils) can always bury a guy in the minors to make it work so the asking price will eventually go down.
Boston can bite the bullet and waive either Ryder or Sturm to get under the cap. Waiving Sturm won’t give them enough room to replace him with another forward, though.
There are several indications that Marco Sturm is going to start the season on LTIR, because he’s still recovering from a torn ACL and a torn MCL. The Bruins also have the option of returning Tyler Seguin to juinors…. no matter how unpalatable it might seem, it would accomplish the goal of freeing up the necessary cap space.
Seguin has a huge performance bonus…his base salary is only $900K. I think that means that putting him in juniors would help their cap significantly next year but not help them much this year. Also, I think it’s in their best interest to let him play with the big club. #2 picks have been able to make pretty significant impacts as rookies since the lockout and there wasn’t much separating Seguin from Hall.
About that Rolston NTC...
If Rolston can be put on waivers and then re-entry waivers before the season begins, then any team would be eligible to pick him up – and in fact, he’d go to the team that had the worst record last year among teams that claim him. Faced with that threat, shouldn’t Rolston be willing to waive his NTC rather than go through the embarassment of re-entry waivers just to end up on the worst team that wants him? I personally don’t believe the NTC is much of a factor for Rolston – and not for White either, who would waive his NTC rather than get sent to the minors, if it came to that.
The bigger question is what sweeteners it would take to get another team to take him off our hands. As I stated above, though, waiving Salvador and re-entry waiving Rolston would be enough to get us under the cap with enough room to bring up the prospects we need. I would be willing to give up a third round pick to give Salvador the courtesy of playing elsewhere in the NHL rather than toiling on the AHL bus, but I see no reason for the Devils to be forced into giving up much in the way of sweeteners when they have this option available to them.
That’s a very big “if”. I’m all for doing it, but only if you have a deal worked out with another team wherein they claim Rolston on re-entry waivers. Otherwise, you’re just marking time and not solving any of your cap issues…. you’re damaging Rolston’s trade value further (I know, he doesn’t have much, but this would mean you’d need a bigger sweetener to get another team to take him off your hands)…. and you’re risking alienating both Rolston and other players who are at risk of going through the same process.
Waiver
While I agree ownership may not want to pay that much to have these players sit in the minors for that kind of money. The chances may be very good to have another team pick them up off waivers, or even off re-entry waivers if one of our players get injured.
I think thats the best way to get under the cap and still have veterans available to fill the injuries that will most likely occur during the season.
If they get picked up, then fine, if not, we’ll still be under the cap, just out a few mil to pay them. Yes it may seems like a waste, but I think it would be worth it to keep Kovy and the rest of our prospects.
I get the feeling though that Lou may pull of a trade with one of his buddies without losing anything.
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