2010 New Jersey Devils Roster Purge: Zubrus or Rolston...one will probably go.
For most Devils' fans the Capgeek.com calculator page has been a regular visit this summer and for me at least, a daily visit since last Friday. With the Ilya Kovalchuk signing finally official now the real fun begins for a Devils era which I will tentatively name: The 2010 September Roster Purge. As John Fischer has already pointed out, the Devils will need to clear roughly $2.96MM of cap dollars and probably an additional $1-2MM to get comfortably under the cap.
Since everyone -on this site and others- have put together their recommendations on what the Devils should do, I will take my shot to make the Roster Purge as painless as possible. I think everyone will agree on the following point: Bryce Salvador will likely not be on the Devils roster on October 6th. Salvador was a good player for the Devils during his time in New Jersey but the defensive corps currently has a number of players who provide the same type of skills at a much cheaper price. He also doesn't have a no-trade-clause (NTC) which means the Devils can actually trade him, unlike many others on the roster who have NTC in their contracts.
Whether it is by trade or waivers Salvador can fulfill a role on a team playing on the 2nd pairing, averaging about 16-18 minutes of time on ice per game and can contribute at least 2 minutes of that time on the penalty killing unit. He won't add much offensively but at $2.9MM for the next two years his defensive skills would be attractive to either a veteran team intent on making a deep run in the playoffs or a young team looking to add a physical veteran presence to their roster as their young defensemen develop. Simply put, while slightly overpaid in the current NHL market, he does still have value.
While the Devils have to move salary this year to get cap compliant they should and probably are thinking about next year's roster already. Right now, in 2011-2012 there is currently $48,483,332 committed to 13 players, which leaves them roughly $11MM left in cap space. Even removing Salvador's contract only helps out next year so much as a good portion of his $2.9MM salary would ideally be used to retain Andy Greene. If he has a similar year to 2009-2010, I can see Greene having a yearly salary base of $2.5MM. If that is true then the Devils would still have the same problem in 2011-2012. Ten players to sign for about $11MM. Did I mention they need to re-sign Zach Parise?
This leads me to my question to you, the reader. Should the next casualty on the Roster Massacre list be Dainius Zubrus or Brian Rolston? After the jump I will lay out the pros/cons of moving each. Please note that I am writing this under the assumption that Rolston will NOT be waiving or asked to waive his NTC.
After Bryce Salvador the next likely targets to move off the roster are Dainius Zubrus and Brian Rolston.
Rolston has a NTC, but can be moved utilizing waivers(although highly unlikely a team would take that salary on) or re-entry waivers. As John noted in his primer on the salary cap problem re-entry waivers is not an ideal scenario. If Rolston was claimed on re-entry waivers there would be a dead cap hit of $2.5MM (in a re-entry waiver claim, half of Rolston's $5MM salary would be the responsibility of the Devils, the other half would be the responsibility of the team who claimed him. If Rolston is claimed on regular waivers his entire salary would be assumed by the claiming team). That is likely the only way to remove Rolston off of the roster via waivers. But is it better to have a dead cap hit or have to trade someone like Alexander Urbom in order to move salary? I would rather the dead cap hit.
Could Rolston be approached about waiving his no-trade-clause? While I would be shocked if he was, I can't see the harm in bringing up the subject with his agent. Granted if the Devils ask him to waive that clause it could affect future free agents who may feel that the Devils don't keep their word when issuing NTC. That said, they wouldn't be the first team to do it and I would argue that the NTC was given to a player based upon a certain level of expected productivity. If the player hasn't met that productivity asking him to waive his NTC shouldn't be viewed as the Devils not honoring NTCs that they issue. That said, Tom Gulitti had a tweet yesterday that said that Rolston has still not been asked to waive his NTC. Like I said, I am going to assume right now that the only way off of the Devils roster for Rolston would be re-entry waivers. That would save $2.5MM on the cap this year and next year and also open up a roster spot.
Zubrus on the other hand can be freely traded to any team that is interested. Additionally his $3.4MM cap hit, if given away in a trade would be totally removed from the cap for this year, 2011-2012 and the final year of his contract 2012-2013 (where the Devils are quickly burning up cap space with $30MM dedicated to 7 players). He can also be put through waivers but likely wouldn't be claimed at the salary he currently makes. There wouldn't be too much value in trying to put him through re-entry waivers either as the Devils would have a dead cap hit of $1.7MM for the next three years should he be claimed (and at that price I am sure he would be). Zubrus would likely have to move via trade, and that would require parting with a valuable asset for a team to take his contract on. This could be in the form of a prospect, draft pick or current roster player.
That is just the monetary portion of my thought process though. The chart below shows that besides a short stretch towards the end of the season Zubrus was utilized more than Rolston on the ice both in even strength and power play situations after the acquisition of Ilya Kovalchuk.
Zubrus posted 7 goals/9 assists +4 compared to Rolston's 4 goals/5 assists +1 in the 26 games after the acquisition of Kovalchuk. Zubrus is also younger than Rolston, and can play on multiple lines. So while it may be easier to move Zubrus, it may not be as easy to replace his production.
Before removing either of these players from the roster the Devils should consider the usage of each player on the power play under new coach John MacLean. The acquisition of Jason Arnott might mean less time on the power play for Zubrus. The Devils may also consider moving Kovalchuk off the point (which didn't work out that well last year) and that might require a larger role for Rolston on the power play. Both from a monetary and on ice standpoint there are pros and cons to moving either player off of the roster. Let me lay those out in a table format:
Editor's note: The TOI above is a projection on the times each player would likely play in 2011-2012. Also the goals to be replaced represent the goals each player had all of last year.
My choice of either Zubrus or Rolston would likely be based on what additional assets would have to be thrown in for a team to take Zubrus. I can stomach the cap hit of $2.5MM this year and next for Rolston if the prospect/pick cost to trade Zubrus would result in a premium prospect or 1st round pick being moved. I would qualify that even further: Looking at the top 20 list from Hockey's Future if any of the top 5 prospects are required to move Zubrus then I would try to move Rolston via re-entry waivers. That said, if there is a deal that would take both Zubrus/Salvador in the same deal I would only keep Tedenby, Urbom and Josefson off the table (1st round picks would be available).
In the unlikely event that a NTC waiver is issued by Rolston, I think I could deal with Tedenby going the other way in a deal to remove that contract from the books. I love Tedenby's potential, but right now if the opportunity presented itself to move $5MM off the cap in one move, you have to give up something of value to make that happen. Tedenby also is blocked by the left wing depth at the NHL level which makes him somewhat expendable.
Zubrus would probably be harder (but not impossible) to replace on the ice, but he is easier to move. Rolston's production would be easier to replace but he has a NTC. Since there is no guarantee that a team would even take Rolston on re-entry waivers, it would seem Zubrus would be the likely candidate to move. That being said, my personal preference would be to try and expose Rolston first and see if anyone bites. The Devils will likely not want to pay him $2.5MM a year for him not to play in New Jersey, but I would rather have the Devils pay that then give up a player or prospect plus Zubrus.
Now it's your turn. Trade Zubrus with an additional asset or attempt waivers/re-entry waivers with Rolston. Both situations have their pros and cons. But maybe my thinking is off.....Am I overrating Zubrus? Underrating Rolston? Sound off below!
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The folks over at Lighthouse Hockey would do Salvador for Gervais straight up. I say we make that happen.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
If only the Isles management would do that. Heck, if they’d take Salvador for a late round draft or even just a handshake and a pat on the back I’d do it.
I would trade Salvador and Zubrus, bring up youngsters, and keep Rolston. I’d only keep Rolston because I just don’t see any way to move him, and I doubt he would want to leave a team that is so much better than it was last year, and being better than the #2 seed they were last year might mean a serious shot at winning the Cup. Plus, keep in mind that Rolston was 3rd on the team in goals scored. I know 20 is nothing to praise him for, and Kovalchuk will probably double that production with a full season in NJ, but I have to think that Rolston will probably equal that 20 or get a bit more with a more offensive minded coach in MacLean and more consistent lines.
"Everything is status quo." - Lou Lamoriello
"*Heavy groan*" - The Entirety of Devils Nation
And it might help that opposing Defenses will be focused so much on Kovy and the ZZPops line players like Elias, Arnott, and Rolston will go generally unoticed at first.
by NJD28 on Sep 8, 2010 9:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was under the impression that the subsequent year after a waiver claim the claiming team is responsible for the full cap hit – so whoever picked up Rolston would be on the hook for $2.5M this year and $5M the next, giving the Devils an extra $2.5M to play with next year. Can’t find anything to back it up, though…
The CBA says you're wrong too
Article 50.9(g), emphasis mine.
(ii) To the extent the Player does require Waivers to be Loaned to a
minor league affiliate, he cannot be Loaned or recalled without
first clearing regular Waivers, and then cannot be Recalled to the
NHL parent Club during the same League Year without also
clearing a new Re-Entry Waiver procedure, pursuant to which the
Player can be claimed by another NHL Club for fifty (50) percent
of the contract’s remaining amounts to be paid, with the balance to
be paid by and charged to the waiving NHL Club (both amounts to
be counted against each Club’s Upper Limit, Actual Club Salary
and Averaged Club Salary, and counted against the Players’
Share);
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Ugh
No matter the end result (short of miraculously dealing Rolston for nothing), I will be sad with the result.
But for me, it’s still status quo, move Salvador and Zubrus with as little (in terms of prospects) going along with them as possible.
But, moving Rolston would solve the Devils cap issues in one fell swoop, leaving us almost $2M to bring up 3 player prospects to fill out the roster.
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
I think Salvador can be moved without giving much up. He is still performing well and his contract isn’t terrible. Would you rather have him or Willie Mitchell ($3.5MM for the next two years)?
I have tried to think about it this way. If Salvador/Zubrus were on the free market what would they command? If Brett Clark is worth $1.5MM per year and Andy Sutton is worth a little over $2MM, isn’t Salvador in the $2MM-$2.5MM range if he was a FA?
Zubrus on the other hand would probably only command around $1.5MM-$2MM should he have been a FA this year. There were a ton of 2/3rd line forwards out there this year and a lot of them still haven’t been signed yet.
which ones still haven’t been signed? dainius zubrus would clearly be the best player on the free agent market were he available right now. the players still available are players that did okay with soft minutes, didn’t do well with soft minutes, or are extremely old.
zubrus would go for around 2.5MM were he a free agent on july 1, maybe less. less than 2MM? no way.
You are right, I misspoke in that last sentence. I meant to say something entirely different.
That doesn’t change his value on the free agent market though. Would $1.75MM-$2.25 sound better? Listen, I am a big Zubrus fan but no one would have rushed to sign him on 7/1. He would have had to settle like other players did.
And I am hope I am wrong and that he would be a $2.5MM player on the FA market. That means he wouldn’t require much of a ‘kicker’ for another team to take on his salary.
i disagree. look at how fast all the centers got snapped up. now zubrus hasn’t played center exclusively for new jersey, but he’s played a lot of it, and all the centers went real early and most of them for too much money. players who can play center are still in high demand – it’s wingers who are having trouble this off-season.
Would everyone here be OK with Rolston’s contract if he put up an extra 10 goals and 10 assists this year?
Yes, but only if he also bought me an ice cream sundae. No sundae, no likey.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
Yes, but...
He makes way too much money to be a third liner, but there’s no room for him on the 1 or 2.
To get another 20 points out of third line position, up to 57 for the season (comparable to an 80ish point season on the top 2 lines given time played difference) would be nigh-impossible at best. I’d be more than happy to see it happen, and given the difficulty with moving him for cap space, it seems more likely that we’ll have to hope for it to happen.
Presumably much of those extra points would be on special teams. Considering that was primarily what we hired the guy for, in my mind he’d then be doing his job and I would therefore dislike his contract much less.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
Interesting question.
I don’t know if I’d be OK with it, but I’m also not quite ready to write him off as a complete waste.
He hurt his ankle pretty early in 2008-2009, and after he came back, Sutter never found the right mix of linemates for him.
And last season, just as he was finally starting to show some flashes of productivity with Elias as his center, Elias had to come out of the lineup because of the concussion. And unfortunately, he didn’t get consistent time with Elias after Patrik’s return because of the way Lemaire was changing the line combinations almost constantly.
It almost seems to me like he’s not really had a chance to play consistently with linemates that are a good fit for him. I’d like to see him get that chance before writing him off.
i vote rolston
zubrus was one of the bright spots in the playoffs last season. zubs stays if i had my way
I hate Philadelphia so much.
hmm?
if there was a bright spot in the playoffs last season for the devils, i missed it completely.
i liked his goal on Saint Patricks Day!! that was bright!!
Zubie be gone brother.
Trade Kovalchuk..
The ole’ rumor mill hints the LA Kings may be interested.
"Look at my face. I came here to play a hockey game and look at my face." -Kris Draper
How about Brown and Schenn?
And we’ll swap Salvador for Johnson
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 8, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
will have to wait and see.....
So what is with Martin Skoula? Is he still a Devil? I’m not really sold on him.
They may end up holding onto Salvador until Anssi Salmela is healthy.
Salmela made a lot of mistakes back on D for the short time that played at the end of the season.
Fraser was good when the chips were down, but he made some awful mistakes back there as well. I like him, don’t get me wrong he still needs a lot of work.
Skoula signed with the KHL
Salmela will start the season on the DL… Anssi will probably be put in the roster if the Devils defense faulters.
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 8, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Skoula is in the KHL.
Putting Salmela on the IR doesn’t remove enough salary to keep Salvador. His spot as the 7th defenseman would need to be replaced anyway, so even if you went with a minimum salary guy, it’s only shaving about $100k.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
I having been reading rumors of Maple Leaves Devils trade. Although the source is very sketchy it says “The trade would involve Tomas Kaberle and a fourth-rounder ending up in NJ,
With Rolston, Langenbrunner, a first in 2011, and a second in 2012 heading to Toronto.”
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/455440-leafs-rumors-kaberle-to-the-devils-in-a-swamp-monster-of-a-deal
Doesn’t look like a terrible idea; getting Rolston of the cap for 1, Kaberle moer than makes up for Langs. Although a 1st and a 2nd is a lot; could equal a future top 6 forward and a third liner and we really don’t have a heavy stock of prospects to begin with. Regardless I am skeptical of it. Besides the unreliable source, the Maple Leaves are already over cap and taking almost 8 mill from Langs and Rolston combined would force them to make a lot of clearing even with 4.25 mill from Kaberle off.
Here we go..
According to Eklund, a very sketchy rumor pusher,
Well, I would have stopped reading right there. And two of those players have NTC’s. ALSO, Toronto is also having cap problems like the Devils. That trade would put the Leafs about 4 million over the cap. It doesn’t help the Leafs. It may help the Devils in a major way but we’ll have to surrender Tedenby. Remember those Semin for Brodeur rumors? This is kind of like that. Never gonna happen.
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 8, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I do agree (as stated in my 2nd paragraph), but the reason I see the possibility is I remember reading Darren Dreger and a few other guys saying there are talks between the Leaves and Devils. Now It is unlikely to see us trading with the Leaves for clearing cap space they have problems of their own, unless they want to trade bad contracts. Maybe Finger for Rolston and a 4rd. (pure speculation) Although that would force the Leaves to do quiet a bit of extra maneuvering to get under the cap as well.
I could also see Lou having some interest in Kaberle Maybe like Salvador + Langs + 1st for Kaberle + a 4rth. Would not add that much to Toronto’s cap and they would get a top 6 forward, solid mid paring defense-men + a pick. The could bury Finger in the minors or dump him and they are set. Then if we are able to dump Zuby our cap situation looks nice. Just speculation but I would never doubt Lou could not pull off a deal like that even after all the drama of the off season.
More than likely though nothing with come of the “talks”, but it is an interesting idea.
This is also under the presumption that Langs is willing to waive his NTC. That is a big presumption after all, but this is just fan speculation.
Has anyone ever heard of a player flat out refusing to waive it? What usually happens is they give a list of teams they’re ok with going to. Seriously are there any examples of aplayer refusing to wiave it no matter what?
Didn’t Dany Heatley refuse to waive it for a trade from Ottawa a few years back?
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In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
Not “a few years back”, just last summer. After Dany asked out of Ottawa, they swung a deal with Edmonton (Cogliano and two other names that escape me) and Heatley decided he wanted no part of western Canada. Thus, the bag of magic beans San Jose ponied up for his services.
I should have been clearer… not refusing tow alive it because they didn’t want to go to a particular team. Just refusing to waive period… not matter the team. They just didn’t want to leave their current team even if the team wanted to get rid of them.
Heatley asked to be traded, he then just didn’t like where they were going to send him.
Lou was interested in Kaberle and talked to Burke about him at the deadline. Instead we got the cancellation prize in Skoula (I keep thinking of “Skuba”) somehow. In order to take Kaberle we have to unload Rolston and Salvador and a top prospect. Which I am not comfortable in because Kaberle will just leave for bigger money given we have to re-sign Greene and Parise next year. I say let Kaberle go. It would be great to have him but if it costs a Tedenby, no thanks. I like a Rolston, Langenbrunner, Zubrus trade. We unload about 11 million and receive 4.5 million back. Not bad. But Toronto takes on about 11 million with their cap problems. Won’t happen unless a team like the Islanders or Thrashers are involved. Then the players would have to waive their NTC’s to go to a team. Its a longshot but it’s a slight chance.
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 8, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
"The trade would involve Tomas Kaberle and a fourth-rounder ending up in NJ,
With Rolston, Langenbrunner, a first in 2011, and a second in 2012 heading to Toronto."
If Lamorello actually makes this trade, I will think about rooting for Glen Sather and Our Hated Rivals. I will petition John to change the name of this blog. I will ask the NHL to submit Lamorello to random drug testing. Seriously.
Let’s make the assumption Rolston will waive his NTC for this one — I won’t get into what would go into that decision, but just give that one to the rumour-mongers out there. I still question why Langenbrunner would waive his NTC to go to a lousy, rebuilding club in the walk year of his contract. That’s one set of issues.
The Devils cannot keep forking over high draft picks if they wish to stay competitive. Say what you will about a “window of opportunity” and how small it might be to win another Cup, but I think the Devils will be fine even after Marty retires. While the next goalie will have a massive pair of skates to fill (and may fail spectacularly under that spotlight), the team is generally sound and I think they will survive, even if there isn’t a world-class goalie to bail out every last mistake. In the modern NHL, you need the draft to provide balance to your roster, to have those hungry, young kids making peanuts while you overpay the vested veterans.
Finally, I wouldn’t touch Tomas Kaberle with an eleven-foot Bohunk (which is what you use when a ten-foot Pole just isn’t enough) if I were running the Devils. I don’t think he’s very sound in his own zone, and with free agency looming (and Kaberle possibly being the top offensive D-Man on the market), I imagine Tomas will look to his own numbers first and everything else somewhere down the list.
As for Toronto, I could see why they’d be interested in this hypothetical deal. Flip Langenbrunner for another piece, pocket the draft picks to help rebuild, and Rolston just costs them cash they have in abundance. All for a defenseman you’ve been trying to trade for two years.
by acasser on Sep 8, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Devils cannot keep forking over high draft picks if they wish to stay competitive. Say what you will about a "window of opportunity" and how small it might be to win another Cup, but I think the Devils will be fine even after Marty retires. While the next goalie will have a massive pair of skates to fill (and may fail spectacularly under that spotlight), the team is generally sound and I think they will survive, even if there isn’t a world-class goalie to bail out every last mistake. In the modern NHL, you need the draft to provide balance to your roster, to have those hungry, young kids making peanuts while you overpay the vested veterans.
As much as I agree with the larger point of how bad that deal would be; the Devils don’t have the luxury right now of keeping their picks. If it takes giving up a first to make a cap-compliant deal happen, then guess what, I’m happy with the first going away since it’s incredibly unlikely that pick turns into a player better than Kovalchuk.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
Kaberle possibly being the top offensive D-Man on the market
Zdeno Chara, Christian Ehrhoff, and Andrei Markov could go the market. Also other top defense-men like Roman HamrlĂk, Chris Phillips, Hal Gill, and Andy Greene could also. While some of those guys might be locked up there are 3 from Montreal, so I am doubtful they will be able to lock up all 3. Plus a few of these guys are going to want to test the waters.
Kaberle is better than all of these guys offensively (with the exception of Markov). I doubt Montreal will even try to keep Hamrlik (he has some insane contract figure, like $5M) and Hal Gill could go or stay, not the priority for Montreal.
Anyway, what Im trying to say is Kaberle would almost certainly leave NJ via FA, and that would make such a deal ‘not worth it.’
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
This is just a thought:
Say the Devils trade Salvador, and put Rolston on waivers (let’s also assume a team picks up him). We would be opening $2.5m this year. With Salvador’s and half of Rolston’s cap hit gone, the Devils would have 19 players with $2,462,916. The top 3 lines are set at Parise-Zajac- Lagenbrunner / Kovalchuk-Arnott-Elias / Zharkov-Zubrus-Clarkson / Leblond-Pelley-?…That’s a good amount of space for the prospect players; some will need to ready.
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"Hockey is the only job I know where you get paid to have a nap on the day of the game." - Chico Resch
Zharkov is a right wing not a left. Also I doubt Pelley plays Center.. he seemed better suited as a LW last season.
If rolston goes that opens a LW slot on the 3rd line… Tedenby to lose?
If Zubrus goes, Rolston may shift to center still leaving the left open to Tedenby to battle for. Ir Rolston stays at left and maybe Henrique and Josefson battle it out for the 3rd line. But do you want a rookie centering the 3rd line with no veteran safety net behind them?
I wouldn’t pencil anyone in for the 4th line, i’d imagine that’s going to be a rotating cast whatever happens and whoever gets traded of or so players.
I wouldn’t pencil anyone in for the 4th line, i’d imagine that’s going to be a rotating cast whatever happens and whoever gets traded of or so players.
Which is why I feel waiving Rolston’s contract may be worth it. The Devils have $2,462,916 in cap space. They can sign a center for the 4th line (<$850k hit). Tim Sestito ($500k hit) may be capable of playing the dot as well. There’s enough room to manage a roster with one or two cheap free agent signings and giving prospects some time in the NHL.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
"Hockey is the only job I know where you get paid to have a nap on the day of the game." - Chico Resch
by Matthew Ventolo on Sep 8, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Zharkov is a RW, but he shoots left and has a hard (yet inaccurate) shot. Elias is a LW but will play RW.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
"Hockey is the only job I know where you get paid to have a nap on the day of the game." - Chico Resch
by Matthew Ventolo on Sep 8, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
One point I don't understand
Zubrus on the other hand can be freely traded to any team that is interested. Additionally his $3.4MM cap hit, if given away in a trade would be totally removed from the cap for this year, 2011-2012 and the final year of his contract 2012-2013 (where the Devils are quickly burning up cap space with $30MM dedicated to 7 players). He can also be put through waivers but likely wouldn’t be claimed at the salary he currently makes.
Why would it be it easier to trade him, whereby a team would have to give something up to get him, that that same team taking him on waivers and still have that something? Either way the new team pays the whole salary (not thinking re-entry waivers here, you bring that up in your next sentence). If a team is willing to take him, they obviously have cap space, so needing to rid themselves of that resource wouldn’t be the case.
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the idea is presumably that what the other team gives up is of negative value. for instance, i think washington would gladly trade jason chimera for dainius zubrus. ditto florida for steve reinprecht, say. i’m just throwing those out there as suggestions.
I'm sorry, but
If I’m Washington’s GM I’d rather keep Chimera and waive someone else who wouldn’t contribute as much. Similarly for the Panthers. Also, knowing the cap crunch the Devils are in, I’d take either of those players for Zubrus at this time. Obviously, Salvador would still have to be moved as well. Those “negative value” players are waaaaay more than the Devils are going to get back in trade.
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ditto florida for steve reinprecht
You might have to ask a Panthers fan what they think, but I don’t see Reinprecht as a negative. He’s got a reasonable contract (2 more years with a cap hit just above $2 million), he’s a center (which is the Devils’ biggest need positionally), he has a decent amount of offensive talent (10+ goals in 6 of 8 full NHL seasons), and he can play in all situations. If I could trade Zubrus or Salvador for Reinprecht, I’d do it right now.
Then again, I’m also a little biased. Reinprecht is an ex-Badger (as am I), and I have a soft spot for people who played at UW. Even Rangers (for example, Mike Richter).
Why would it be it easier to trade him, whereby a team would have to give something up to get him, that that same team taking him on waivers and still have that something?
For the same reason teams in other sports make those deals all the time — to avoid the uncertainty of waivers and how claims are adjudicated. If you’re high up on the priority list (i.e., you suck), you might make a trade to ensure one of the better teams doesn’t pre-empt you by doing the same thing. If you’re one of the better teams, you might not wish to risk the claims process and that some crummy team will take him before you.
You don’t have to get a lot in return for Zubrus. A 7th-round pick…. an organizational (depth) prospect…. even “future considerations” would suffice. You don’t have to offer a lot if you want the player, just enough so the Devils don’t go to the waivers process and introduce that element of randomness.
An off-the-wall thought about Rolston
IF he gets re-entry waived, the Devils are stuck with the $2.53M cap hit and salary. So consider this, if that is the alternative, isn’t it better to keep Rolston for that $2.53M? I think so. Yeah his actual salary and cap hit are $5M+, but barring a trade, his true impact to the cap is only $2.53M because that’s what will be the impact to re-entry waive him, and then you’re also essentially paying $3.53M for a $1M replacement for Rolston, because the roster spot still does have to be replaced.
Bottom line, like John has said more times than I can count unicorns, Rolston isn’t going anywhere.
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Though I don’t think Rolston is going to leave, him getting claimed is the most possible option for him leaving (unless he waives his NTC in the future of course). The Devils will have to part ways with two players to be in a comfortable cap situation, and those two seem to be Salvador and Zubrus. I’d rather lose Rolston than Zubrus, even if it costs an extra $870k.
Losing Zubrus and Salvador would put the Devils at 19 players with $3,331,666 in cap space (getting no NHL ready players in return). That’s fine by me. I’m expecting that. That’s enough to get a 3rd line center and maybe a 3rd line defender with room for any prospect to be called up.
If it’s possible (and it is), to keep Zubrus, trade Salvador and Rolston gets claimed off waivers. The Devils would be at 19 players with $2,462,916 in space. But the Devils have established a 3rd line center. Rolston doesn’t need to be replaced. A Zharkov-Zubrus-Clarkson can contribute well enough for the 3rd line. The Devils have less room, yet it’s only to fill in the 4th line rotation and depth at defense. The prospects
It just depends on which situation you would rather have really. I would rather have my top 3 lines, with room for prospects than an opening at 3rd line center with more work needed in free agency. Rolston getting claimed isn’t as bad at is looks, and it is a possibility if Lou can’t find a good enough deal by Sept. 25th.
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by Matthew Ventolo on Sep 8, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
this is a false dichotomy for more than one reason, and i might address the whole situation in a fanpost. basically, the devils can lose 2 of the 3 out of rolston, salvador, and zubrus. rolston doesn’t really have any role on the team, whereas zubrus clearly would. zubrus’s ability to play all 3 forward positions is huge in this case.
matthew actually does a good job of explaining it below.
Where I stand
If I’m just keeping one player based on who I think will provide the best on-ice product in the next season, I want Dainius Zubrus. He is certainly more versatile, he is younger (and therefore in my mind less likely to be injured), and he is capable of bringing a physical edge that Rolston simply does not possess.
However, this isn’t necessarily about the best on-ice product, at least to me. I don’t see a scenario where either guy will be part of the club a few years from now, and their presence (and salary) blocks opportunities for the next generation of Devils. Therefore, I’d look for a way to expedite removing both players from the roster. It is easier to trade Zubrus now, so he’s the guy I’d try to move first. As far as Rolston goes, I think there’s a reasonable chance of moving him next off-season if he isn’t moved in the next month — with one year left on his contract, he’d be more attractive to a number of teams. That isn’t to say that this would even be possible, just that I think the “price” would be more palatable to the Devils and that you might interest more clubs to “bid”.
Zubrus is the better player, but we’re talking the third line here. Since the overarching objective is to clear cap space, trade the guy who is easier to move, who doesn’t have a contract with a no-trade and a 35+ provision and a bigger per-season cap hit.
rolston will be 37 and will have no solid role on the devils. it’s possible that next season will be his worst. i don’t want to take the chance that rolston is terrible next season. first of all, i don’t want to watch him sucking, but second, that would just make it impossible to move him. it’s already going to be impossible – who is going to want to trade for a 38 year old winger making 5 million?
who is going to want to trade for a 38 year old winger making 5 million?
The Rangers?
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
by elesias on Sep 8, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ba-Zinga! Rec'd
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
Odelein to Barnaby: "He should take a look at his wife. She's God-awful to look at."
by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 9, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Which do you think will be easier to trade? The fading 37-year old winger with two 35+ years and $10 million on his contract, or the fading 38-year old winger with one 35+ year and $5 million on his contract? I think there are more teams that would take a chance on Door Number Two, knowing that their worst case scenario is they are stuck with it for the remainder of the season, rather than Door Number One, where you can be stuck with it for the extra year and he might retire on you and really stick it to you.
If I’m Rolston’s agent, and I get permission to seek a trade or otherwise talk to other teams, I’d try to position Rolston as a variant on Ray Whitney. The veteran with some scoring prowess (although not the numbers Whitney has provided for Carolina since the lockout) who can boost your power play, so long as you aren’t looking for him to be a focal point or anything. Used in that way, I think you could depend on him for roughly 20 goals per season…. and while that would still leave him overpaid when his contract is brought into things, it makes him a handy complimentary piece to have around.
Why should Rolston’s contract being easier to trade than another similar contract have anything to do with someone actually wanting to trade for it to begin with? Sure, theoretically it’s possible to find a buyer, but if the best argument you can make for the guy is that he’s a 20 goal scorer with Cup experience and a hard shot, etc., he still eats up $5m cap space even if he breaks a hip, and I think most GMs would rather take a shot with a near-minimum wage kid scoring 20 than take a chance on Rolston doing it at 3×.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
for $5M.
at the paltry sum of $2.5, there would be more than one taker. And the Devils would still net $1.5ishM in cap space after replacing his roster spot. Of course, that is dependant on Lou shopping that idea around, and I hope he’d talk to Rolo about it in the process. But in the end, business is business.
I’m not a big fan of dead cap space, personally. This year it might seem palatable, but next year combined with the Pandolfo and Peters buyout, that’s $3.5m in unusable cap space.
That could mean the difference between being able to sign Andy Greene or not.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
True. I deliberately chose breaking a hip to call extra attention to his age.
Point being, of course, that his 35+ contract makes him all but untradeable no matter how you spin it.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
I wouldn’t say “untradeable”, but we would have to give up a nice prospect or something with him. I don’t see Lou doing that but Salv and Zuby can likely be traded without having to give up anything else. Maybe even getting a little in return.
I could see Rolston as very tradeable next year if he puts up a decent year. It could help us with resigning Greene and Parise + a nice fa (maybe Kaberle or Markov).
Rolston & 2.5M
I apologize in advance if this has already been mentioned.
Regarding Rolston. We know his salary is the $5M, and if he went through re-entry (assuming a team picked him up), the Devils would still be stuck with $2.5M on their books.
I personally don’t see why a team WOULDN’T pick up Rolston, especially if he was only going to cost $2.5M for two years. Honestly I wouldn’t pay $5M for him at this point, but $2.5M is a different ball game. If it would only count as $2.5M against the team that acquires him, wouldn’t they be interested? Perhaps a team of young guys, looking for some possible veteran leadership or someone to specialize on the PP. It really doesn’t seem like that bad of a deal for me (for the Devils or the acquiring team) either way. The Devils clear the cap they need by removing Salvador (trade) and Rolston (waivers then re-entry waivers), and we still get to keep Zubrus, who is probably a bargain for his current price tag vs his production.
Just my .02
Also, for comparison (if possible), Langebrunner is a $2.5M contract. Rolston is a $5M contract, but produces less than Langenbrunner. If you got more than half of Langenbrunner’s production for the same cost, might it be worth (from another team of course). I compared these two because they are both wings, at age 35+, with the same goal production last year (though Langenbrunner had more assists) and both played 80+ games.
It’s been mentioned as an option, but the downside is that the other $2.5m is still on the Devils’ books.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
Understood — but I rather carry $2.5M and dump Rolston than lose Zubrus. He is young and doing well and definitely should keep him. Main reason I don’t see it as such a downside is because we’d keep Zubrus, but at the same time clear the cap we need to (even with the $2.5M still there). I guess I was just looking at it more positively as an option. :)
I’m not keen on having to get rid of Zubrus either; I think he’s underrated. But I also think he’s overpaid and in a money crunch, there’s not a whole lot of room for hoping an overpaid player will buck trend and live up to his salary.
I would be willing to eat half of Rolston’s salary this year, but it would, when combined with the Pandolfo and Peters buyouts, mean the Devils had $3.5m in dead cap space next year when they’re going to have to re-sign Parise and Greene, and fill out the roster that currently only has 13 guys signed.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
that doesn’t matter about the dead space, i could jump up and down and yell about it until i am blue in the face. rolston’s contract is ALREADY dead space. the devils are NEVER going to get a team to trade for that contract for nothing, unless rolston somehow comes alive and gets 60 points next season, something which i’m not really counting on.
the real issue is that rolston plays a position that is already stuffed, while zubrus plays all forward positions and can fill in wherever the kids struggle. next year, when parise and greene need to be signed, zubrus can be sent elsewhere, hopefully after a long playoff run that’s elevated his value, and one of our second-year pros can fill in for him.
It’s not dead space… he’s still a contributing player. Granted, he’s not contributing like his contract dictates he should, but he’s still there scoring ~35 points/year.
Calling it “dead space” is just hyperbole. Dead space is shorting yourself $2.5m in available salary with nothing, not even an underperforming winger, to show for it.
I’m not anti-Zubrus… I happen to like the guy and what he brings… though I do think he’s overpaid (would that make his contract dead space also?). He’s an unfortunate victim of circumstance, but he’s not irreplaceable. Eating $2.5m in cap space for two years just to keep Zubrus is not an acceptable option.
Playing Devils' advocate since 1982.
yes, zubrus’s contract has some dead space on it too. rolston’s has much more. i am not saying his entire contract is dead space, that would be terrible hyperbole. rolston is not performing anywhere close to the value on his contract. whether or not he’s here or re-entry waived probably makes little difference in terms of value to new jersey. i would rather take the re-entry waiving route.
If you guys remember the post I did on Devils GVS/GVC (here), Rolston’s salary helps him be a -6.7 GVS (Goals Vs Salary) and -6.89 GVC (Goals Vs Cap). Cut his salary in half and both come up to +.7 to +.8. Zubrus on the other hand is -3.8 for both GVS and GVC. Now, I don’t know what Rolston’s dead 2.53 cap hit after being re-entry waived gives us in GVT (what would it be for someone who plays 82 games and has a 0 for all his stats? I’d guess pretty bad). That would be a pretty good comparison, I believe. Zubrus at -6.8 vs. Rolston’s dead cap space. Which one is more valuable? I found t the definition/calculation for GVT, but I haven’t digested it completely yet. I’ll try to do that.
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He is young and doing well and definitely should keep him
That’s an interesting definition of “young”, considering Dainius Zubrus is 32 and has been in the NHL for more than a decade (drafted in 1996 and came straight to the NHL).
As for “doing well”, I think a lot of people are overvaluing him because he was one of the few Devils who maintained their effort against Philly in the playoffs last year. And all the other arguments I’ve previously made and won’t re-hash here.
Probably should have said “youngER”, as in younger than Rolston (and Arnott for that matter).
Maybe we are overvaluing him. He is a 40pt guy when healthy though. Also, if we lose Zubrus, who would we have centering the lines? That is where I apply his value — not necessarily his stats.
Zajac – Arnott – Josefson – Pelly
That only gives us four centers, unless you want Elias to play center (but then you loose a winger). Pelly is certainly not a 2nd or 3rd line Center and Josefson is unproven. Zubrus, while not a stat machine is a big part of the Devils offense and leaves a hole for the centers IMO. Not only that, but Arnott isn’t exactly a spring chicken anymore either at almost 36.
How about this...
Salvador, Rolston, Tedenby and a high to mid round pick (2nd or 3rd) for Kaberle and a later pick (4th or 5th). Kaberle would more than replace Salvador on the blue line (not as good defensively, but he and Volchenkov would be a dynamic top d line). We can all agree that rolson needs to go. We would trade a higher pick for a lower pick, but we would still have a 1st. Now, a lot of people would be reluctant to give up Tedenby, but I would do it for a couple of reasons.
1) Tedenby is a left wing. With Kovy locked up for the next millenium or so and another fellow named Parise, we are stocked on top line LW. In about two or three years, we would be looking to trade him anyway as opposed to paying him a huge salary.
2) Bringing in Kaberle is only going to be for a year. After his contract ends, he will go elsewhere. That’s fine since we have guys like Corrente, Urbom, Gelinas, Merril, etc. to take his place in a couple of years. With his salary off the books next year (as well as the 7.5 from Salvador and Rolston not on the books either), we have plenty of room to resign Greene, Parise and still have room to bring in some key free agents to fill out the roster.
So, while it would seem bad to trade away the best prospect in the organization, it would seem to make sense to help unload big, unwanted contracts. Also, the scenario allows us to keep Zubrus and give us three solid lines as well as a hell of a good defensive unit.
Of course the problem with this trade is the added cap hit Toronto is going to take, but with Tedenby and a high draft pick, Burke could do it and worry about the cap later in the preseason. It might be tempting to him enough to risk it.
Well, I’ve rambled on long enough. What does everyone else think? Am I crazy or would this actually make sense?

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