New Jersey Devils Win First Road Game in Dramatic Fashion Over Nashville Predators, 3-2 via Shootout
The New Jersey Devils won their first road game of the 2011-12 season by defeating the Nashville Predators 3-2 in a shootout. The score and the fact it ended in a shootout doesn't begin to grasp what happened in the game. This game that had it all. Both teams combined for 72 shots on net. Both teams scored a power play goal. Both teams got an even strength goal. Both teams took stupid penalties that hurt their team. Both teams combined for 37 penalty minutes in the first two periods. Both teams got whistled for no penalties after the third period. Both teams had stretches where they were bossing their opponents around. Both teams played in all kinds of situations: 5-on-5, 4-on-4, 4-on-3, 5-on-4, and 5-on-3. That's a lot in of itself.
But, wait, there's more! Here's the quick and dirty summary of how the game went on.
It started off great for the Preds, with two goals in the first period and looking like they would be in control. The Devils made noise but no tangible progress midway through the game, thanks to Pekka Rinne playing out of his mind. True to the adage, "if you don't succeed; try, try again," the Devils kept at it and put up two goals of their own in the third period. The Devils survived a late surge and overtime to force a shootout. There, the victory was sealed thanks to Ilya Kovalchuk, Zach Parise, Johan Hedberg, and the crossbar on Hedberg's goal. There were ups, downs, and a whole lot of oscillation in between.
This game was certainly a trip for Devils fans; and those same fans should be proud of the team's performance tonight. So should the Devils players and coaches themselves. They didn't pack it in after going down 2-0 early in the game nor when it seemed like a getting a puck past Rinne was going to be like squeezing blood from a stone. No, they kept pushing the puck ahead, they kept firing shots, and they were rewarded. It's the sort of performance that comes from a team with character, self-belief, and optimism. While I would have liked to have avoided a come-from-behind result altogether, I'm most pleased to see early on in 2011-12 that the Devils aren't going to lay down for anyone.
I'll be frank, I'm not sure I can cover everything in this game; but I'll do my best after the jump to hit the important parts. For the opposition's take on this game, please check out On the Forecheck.
The Stats: The NHL.com Game Summary | The NHL.com Event Summary | The NHL.com Play by Play | The Time on Ice Shift Charts | The Time on Ice Head to Head Ice Time Charts | The Time on Ice Corsi Charts
The Highlights (Update): Hey, NHL.com finally got their highlight video up. Unfortunately, it's from the MSG+2 feed. Anyway, this video is loaded with goals, hits, and saves, so go watch it:
David Clarkson - The Goat: David Clarkson very nearly became the goat tonight. In the first period, in chasing down a dumped-in puck, he hit Ryan Suter into the end-boards right in the numbers. It was a bad hit, a stupid hit, and a dangerous hit. He was quickly hit himself from behind by Shea Weber, creating a pileup. After the refs sorted everything out, Clarkson got a 5 minute roughing major and Weber only got 2. I felt it should have been matching; but it's moot since Clarkson was an idiot for contacting Suter from behind.
Anyway, this really hurt the Devils' flow in the game, which was going pretty well at even strength. Now, the Devils had to play 4-on-4 for 2 minutes and then kill off 3 minutes. Sergei Kostitsyn tripped up Patrik Elias to help burn off some more time; but ultimately Nashville had a lengthy power play. They essentially scored on it twice, officially only once. Colin Wilson re-directed Kostitsyn's shot from the slot up and over Hedberg for the first goal. That was just a bad break; there wasn't much Hedberg or the penalty killers could have done on it. The second goal was scored a few seconds after Clarkson's penalty ended; but it was set up just before. Jerred Smithson was on Hedberg's right flank at the net. Jordin Tootoo faked his shot, slid a pass to Smithson, and he stashed it into the net. Andy Greene was covering someone else in front and Hedberg had no chance on the shot. The root cause of those goals was Clarkson's moronic penalty. Thanks a lot, #23.
When you also consider he whiffed on a loose puck in front of an empty net early in the first period, it only serves to make Clarkson more of a goat.
David Clarkson - The Hero: Like the team as a whole, Clarkson didn't let that get to him. He put his head down and went to work. For Clarkson, that meant shots and quite a few of them. That one heinous miss aside, Clarkson was absolutely robbed on 3 of his 4 shots by Rinne and by the post on another. While Devils fans would like to see someone else in the middle on the first power play unit, Clarkson did his job fairly well in that regard. He didn't shoot the puck from just wherever, he shot from good positions at good times. If it wasn't for that major penalty, then we would have had a more favorable opinion of his night just on that alone.
Instead, Clarkson can be called a hero tonight as he scored the Devils' second goal in the third period. Mattias Tedenby deserves a lot of credit for it. He stole the puck away from a Predator from behind and drove into the slot. He had the good sense to see Clarkson driving with him to his right and feathered a soft pass to him. Clarkson had his chance to redeem himself (to a point) and he made the most of it. He slid the puck between Rinne's five-hole and the comeback was complete. It was his first goal of the season and it couldn't have come in a better time. While I'm still not happy about his hit on Suter, I'm glad that he scored such an important goal. Hopefully, it'll lead him to more productive days.
Goaltending Dynamos: Johan Hedberg had a lot more work to do tonight, making 29 out of 31 saves and making one more in the shootout. The Predators started off hot, they pounded him on the power play with 7 shots against, and they were fierce near the end of the game. Let me go into that in more detail.
In a near-repeat of the third period of Thursday's game, the Devils were outshooting the Predators 12-3 at one point. By the time the third period ended, the Predators were only outshot 14-11. Nashville really wanted to avoid the Devils from tacking on a third goal, so they upped their offensive pressure and just bombed away on net. They were very close to scoring, with a few shots and rebounds either going just wide or denied by the quick legs of Hedberg. The Predators looked more active in overtime, forcing Moose to make two huge stops; though officially, that's all the Preds mustered. He also had 3 one-on-one situations to deal with. Hedberg denied Kostitsyn on a penalty shot; made an easy-looking stop on Cal O'Reilly on his shootout attempt; and didn't have do anything to Matt Halischuk's attempt as the former Devil prospect hit the crossbar. Moose wasn't just solid, he made important stops to keep the Devils in it. Also, the goals against weren't his fault at all.
While Moose was crucial, Pekka Rinne was crucial-er. From the second period to about half-way through the third period, the Devils were mostly bossing the Nashville skaters around. Sure, the Predators had their good shifts and a few good rushes; but it was mostly New Jersey driving the play. The Devils were down 2-0 for most of this stretch, so it's understandable that they would put up a few more shots than Nashville. Yet, the Devils were really piling it on - achieving 20 shots on net past half-way the second period and past 30 early in the third period. Every Devils skater except for Cam Janssen had a shot on net. The Devils tore through the Predators that badly. Rinne bailed them out, though. Rinne was forced to move, dealt with screens, had Devils crash hard to the crease, and fought off many rebounds. Nashville was fortunate to hold off a hungry Devils lineup as long as they did thanks to one man: Rinne. He was absolutely fantastic and it took a lot to beat him. Treasure his performance, Predators fans.
Congratulations! It's a Power Play Goal! Against A Goalie!: I've covered Clarkson's goal, so let's talk about the Devils' first goal. Believe it or not, it was on the power play. A 5-on-3 power play. The Devils enjoyed a chunk of 5-on-4 time (2 opportunities, 4:34) and 4-on-3 time (2 opportunities, 2:32). They only needed 7 seconds of a two man advantage to get their first puck past Rinne and into the net.
The man responsible? Ilya Kovalchuk. He fired a wonderful wrist shot from above the high slot. How did it get past Rinne? Easy: he never saw it. Zach Parise applied a perfect screen. I say it was perfect since Kovalchuk had a clear shooting lane that Rinne couldn't possibly see. It got the Devils on the board in this game and it was the team's first power play goal against a goaltender. Well done.
In general, the power play had a good night. Not only did they score, but they got 7 other shots on net in various situations. Parise was a stud there with 3 of them. The units are showing improvement.
Ilya Kovalchuk Deserves a 5-Day Break: Kovalchuk played over 29 minutes on Thursday and he played 32:04 tonight. The man must be exhausted! Good thing he doesn't have to play until Friday.
Double-shifting in place of Cam "Less Than 3 TOI" Janssen, the guy was motoring all night long. What's more is that he was quite effective. He put 7 shots on net, got blocked 3 times, missed the net twice, and set up several more shots on both the power lay and at evens. The man was a Corsi machine, finishing with a team-leading +16 tonight. Whereas Thursday's game against the Kings was frustrating, Kovalchuk was a delight to watch this evening. Oh, and his shootout goal was absolutely sick, nasty, tasty, dirty, and awesome. I would attempt to combine those adjectives into one word, but it's late and I'm not going to try. Sorry. Overall, I think he was the Devils' best skater tonight.
The Match-Up Game: As a whole, what really helped Kovalchuk, Jacob Josefson (+15, 2 SOG), and Nick Palmieri (+15, 1 SOG) was who they were matched up against. They didn't get much of Shea Weber and Ryan Suter. No, they mostly saw the defensive pairing of Jonathan Blum and Kevin Klein and the line centered by Nick Spaling (Tootoo-Spaling-Smithson). Clearly, the Josefson line beat their brains in when it came to Corsi and Fenwick. Kovalchuk was the main man on offense, but Josefson and Palmieri were quite good in supporting them this evening.
So who did Weber and Suter draw? The Elias line. In terms of Corsi, Parise, Patrik Elias, and Petr Sykora all didn't have good nights. They went up against Nashville's stud defensmen the most as well as their top line in David Legwand, Wilson, and Kostitsyn. If you felt that #9 and #26 weren't doing too much at even strength, then there's your answer. They got the toughest possible match-up for most of the time at evens, and they lost by a good margin. Suter and Weber combined for 11 shots (seriously), so the backchecking forwards didn't get as much coverage on them as they probably should have. The Legwand line combined for 9 shots of their own. In retrospect, I almost want to say that the Elias line could have done a better job at defending. Then again, it was Nashville's top unit. I'm not so certain another line would have had more success at driving the play against them.
As an aside, Sykora really suffered in general outside of Corsi. He wasn't keeping up with the play all that well. In the third period, Peter DeBoer switched him to center Tedenby and Clarkson while moving Dainius Zubrus to play right wing on the first line. It was a decent adjustment (Zubrus set up a close shot opportunity) until Nashville really turned up their offensive aggression late in the period. At that point, there wasn't much for the Devils, though.
Impressively, the Devils as a team finished at +9 even with Nashville's late flurry. The third line did OK, the fourth line wasn't horrible (though Kovalchuk carried them), and the defense was mostly above water as driven by Henrik Tallinder and Mark Fayne. That pairing got so positive in Corsi namely because they mostly played behind the Josefson line who really drove the Devils forward at evens. While I really enjoyed how the Josefson line played tonight, I'm left with a question. Why did Barry Trotz keep Suter & Weber and/or the Legwand line against the Elias line? I'm glad he did, as the Devils' second line really shined. I'm just surprised Trotz never made that adjustment for too long.
Network Blues: You know what would have made this game better to watch? The actual picture. The game was on MSG+2, so that means it wasn't in HD. It sucks, but it's been that way as long as the Dolans want it. I've learned to accept it. The production was worse as the picture had a blue tint to it and it was made to look like it was dark in the arena. HD would have helped, but so would have making color and white balance adjustments.
Worst of all, viewers missed some of the play due to commercials at times. The commentators were often faded or cut off in mid-sentence to go to them, which is annoying; but it's down right poor to miss part of the actual game because of it. That's just awful by MSG. It's 2011, why are we dealing with this garbage? Sure it didn't happen every time, but it happened more than once. Thankfully, there wasn't anything important missed; but no one could have assumed that given how action was going on in this game. Hopefully, future telecasts on MSG+2 will be improved - even if it's in SD.
Obstruction Reduction: Clarkson's hit on Suter alone was terribly dumb. Yet, the Devils did do well in avoid taking penalties for obstruction purposes (e.g. hooks, trips, slashes, etc.). The only other calls on players they got were for fighting, unsportsmanlike conductt for trying to start something when the refs instructed them not to (note to Eric Boulton: the man in stripes is important and you should listen when he says stuff); and a matching roughing call. The Devils did take a really annoying too many men on the ice call near the end of the second period. It's progress of sorts, given the first few games, I suppose.
Thanks for the Penalties, Predators: Nashville thankfully took a good share of dumb penalties on their own. They helped the Devils out, too. Smithson took the first of the game by hooking Josefson down early on. Kostitsyn took two: the first was a lazy trip on Elias and the second was a lazy slash on Greene. Patric Hornqvist returned to action and hit Anton Volchenkov's face with a stick during Nashville's power play for the Devils' too many men call. Shea Weber added a second hit from behind with a cross-check on Elias while Hornqvist was in the box. The last two were huge in retrospect as it not only wiped out their own man advantage, but the Devils got a power play going into the third period. It became a 5-on-3 once the too many men call was served and then Kovalchuk unloaded that fateful wrist shot that beat a screened Rinne.
Shootout Magic: Here's a fun, final fact: the Devils are perfect in shootouts. 4 attempts, 4 (incredibly gorgeous) goals, 4 stops (saves and misses), and they helped the Devils get 4 points in their last two games.
It won't last forever. Likewise, the Devils won't always comeback from an early deficit. Still, it's worth appreciating all the same. Especially now that they are 3-1 for the season.
Audio from Peter DeBoer (Update #2): Kevin emailed me the following links to DeBoer speaking after the game. He got them from Buddy Oakes at Preds on the Glass. Thanks Buddy and Kevin. Both link directly to MP3 files, so keep that in mind: DeBoer Audio #1 and DeBoer Audio #2.
Those are my thoughts on this game. I hope I covered as much as I could. What did you think of the Devils' performance tonight? Are you proud that this team came from behind to get at least a point out of it? Are you pleased the power play got a goal past a goalie - especially on a 5-on-3? Do you see Clarkson as a goat, a hero, or something in-between after this game? What do you want the Devils to improve on for next week's game against San Jose? Please leave your answers and other thoughts on this game in the comments. Thanks to everyone who commented and read during the Gamethread, those on Twitter who followed along with @InLouWeTrust, and, of course, thank you for reading.
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Where are the highlights you ask? NHL.com didn’t have them at the time of this writing and it’s late. So if it’s up later, I’ll add it later.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
Heres the entire shootout video
Dont know why they didn’t show Parise’s awesome goal in the NHL.com recap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU17VNMAa7E
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WWTTD?
Colin Wilson about Kovy- “He’s a player who if he gets a goal it really excites him. When he scored that goal you could kind of see the puck was just sticking to his stick a little more and he was making better plays.”
To me Kovy’s more effective player on the road since he’s a Devil, don’t know why but he seems to like big crowds, big games on the road.
PP still needs to improve, not enough movement, seems the same as last year, without Kovy’s shoot, there’s no real plan to create scoring chances and I’m personally tired of this.
Larsson made his first few mistakes, so he’s just an human.
PS: Moose I love you !
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Oct 16, 2011 12:57 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah I thought Larsson
had his first tough game as a Devil. He made quite a few errors, a few of them that could’ve been very costly had Moose not come up big. But you have to expect that from an 18-year-old kid. He is, in fact, human.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 16, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Another Moose call
He was already one up on Rinne going into the shootout, having stopped a penalty shot in the first.
Go Devils
Go Jets
Need to lose weight?
Larsson made his first big error (that I noticed) today with that bad pass from behind his own net. He still managed to lead the D with 25:37, a full 4 minutes more than the next defenseman (Greene). I am amazed that he has such a large roll on this team so soon. I know he will eventually struggle, but so far I am thrilled with what I’ve seen.
As you mentioned, definitely nice to have this kind of comeback win early in the season to show the fans and players that the game isn’t over if we lay an egg early and fall behind.
On another note, one more of the many reasons it’s great to have Parise (back from injury and in general) is because of how money he is in shootouts. According to nhl.com Parise is now 23 of 49 (46.9%) for his career, the 2nd best % of any player (behind Datsyuk) who has taken as many attempts as he has.
Captain Zach will get you high tonight
I initially had reservations about Zach being captain since he’s not vocal enough but he seems to really be leading the team by example extremely well. He may grow into the role even more. Loving this Devils team.
On Clarkson
First off, that penalty call was bull. Suter engaged Clarkson first, and it was shoulder-to-shoulder. The situation ended up being dangerous, but it’s a routine play that happens 20 times every game without either player going down. Secondly, I think the refs would have probably just called it a minor and given the Preds a 2 min PP, but when Shea Weber got involved it didn’t feel right to equate Clarkson’s hit with Weber’s facewash. So instead they gave Clarkson the major and the Preds end up with a 3 minute score-as-many-as-you-can PP. Which in effect means the Preds were rewarded for Weber’s dumb retaliation. I’ve rarely gotten so incensed over a penalty call.
Now that I’m done ranting about that, I have to give Clarkson credit. I’m one of his biggest detractors but he was an effective player tonight and put himself in good position to get some great scoring chances. I don’t fault him for not finishing – he had an open chance jam him by his feet and bounce over his stick, and got robbed by Rinne a number of times. But he drove hard to the net, was a pest buzzing around Rinne’s head, and didn’t take any penalties doing it. He and Tedenby had their best game yet this season at evens, and Clarkson personally had his best game in front of the net on the PP.
Watching it live, I thought Clarkson was in the wrong for boarding like that in this no-headshot/ concussion era.
I’ve seen the replay since and I think your take on it is better, because I don’t think Clarkson was malicious and neither did Suter.
Fortunately, Clarkson covered his butt with a goal after that penalty and some clear blown chances. So, I have to hand it to him for being disciplined and buzzing around so much.
On the Predators
Rinne was spectacular in net, but I was also surprised by his stickhandling! He moved the puck with ease and helped out his Dmen a lot, especially in the first half of the game.
Jordin Tootoo was their most effective forward. That’s not saying much.
Weber and Suter are an incredible pair. I don’t think at all that Parise and Elias failed to bring their game tonight. Weber and Suter are just that dominating in all three zones. They really do everything right, though Weber took a pair of stupid penalties. DeBoer made an interesting move to replace Sykora with Zubrus on that line – Zubrus, in theory, should take on a lion’s share of the boardwork against the big top pair Dmen and free up Elias and Parise to get into areas where they have some space. I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see that Parise-Elias-Zubrus combination more throughout the season, especially when Zajac comes back and gives DeBoer the option of moving Zubrus to full-time RW.
I personally think Trotz made the right decision to keep Weber and Suter on the Parise line, because that line WILL just eat up ordinary defensemen. Every one of the Devils’ opponents will take their chances on matching up their second pair against Kovalchuk, Josefson, and Palmieri. It’s forcing Josefson and Palmieri to make meaningful contributions to beat you. Kovy can’t quite do it all on his own, but tonight Josefson and Palmieri played strong games.
yeah, i agree. a team like nashville is going to have fits with a 2 line team like NJ when Kovalchuk is on his horse. we saw parise-elias-sykora tear apart the kings on thursday night.
i’m becoming more impressed with nick palmieri who is beginning to resemble a legitimate NHL player. he’s going to have games where he gets 0 shots on goal and is totally unnoticed, but he’s skating real well the last two games.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
This team has been dominant for very long stretches in the past 3 games. They’ve deserved to win by far wider margins, but their dominance allows them to pull out wins even when the bounces (and calls) don’t go their way. They didn’t start off well against LA, but survived it and thrived the rest of the way. Don’t let the 2-0 score after the first period fool you in this one. The Devils were dominating before Clarkson’s BS boarding call, which sapped all the momentum. It’s a testament to DeBoer and the faith within the locker room that they were able to regroup from that.
From F&I there was a lot of energy in the locker-room during 2nd intermission, obviously guys didn’t want to give up.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Oct 16, 2011 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Terri bull write up
John, 1st How is DC a goat when the call was bogus….Ok a 2 minute minor penalty needed to be called the 5 minute major call was terrible. That was just a hockey play and a bad set of circumstance. 2nd You don’t even mention the epic fight with our"goon" outlasting and out slugging a huge opponent in the end. You want to mention a never say die attitude well that was all blood and guts out there and a great time to do ones job down 2-0 and reinvesting team emotionally into this game that last years squad early on would have decided " Lets get ‘em next time boys" . It was a great team win if your watching instead of logging Corsi and Fenwick #’s. Give the guy his due when he does his job extremely well. Way to go Cam, thats why your a Devil and a fan favorite!
I’m a fan of hockey fights as much as the next guy. But that fight was lame and went on for way too long. I would’ve praised Cam more if he went in there and got one or two quick ones in and went down swinging. I don’t think the fight did anything for the team emotionally. It certainly didn’t do much for the fans.
by SonicJoe on Oct 16, 2011 7:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m not a big believer in fights, but I thought Janssen’s changed the tenor of the game. The Devils had dominated the opening minutes and had their sail ripped to shreds by the major penalty. The Predators scored two quick ones and had all the momentum, and were getting the better of the play until the fight.
I wouldn’t give too much credit to Janssen “outslugging” McGrattan…Janssen got very few solid punches in and looked gassed after the first 30 seconds. I do give credit to him hanging in there as long as he did instead of giving up early, which was a microcosm of what the Devils did in this game. But more importantly, I think the team used the fight to regroup, slow down their heart rates, and play level-headed hockey, much like they did during Marty’s injury timeout last game.
Cam Janssen, seriously ? I can’t see how this fight could’ve changed anything.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Oct 16, 2011 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions
The fight happened; then (much, much later on) the Devils scored. Ergo, the fight inspired the team.
Don’t you see?!
How could I miss that !
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Oct 16, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
1. The call wasn’t at all bogus. Clarkson hit Suter in the numbers. You’re taught not to do that and the league has made a particular point about eliminating that kind of hit.
2. Cam Janssen played less than 3 minutes of ice time and his fight meant jack squat in the larger context of the game. Kovalchuk took his minutes early, which further shows how much of a waste of a roster space he truly is. I really don’t care if other fans like him, he’s clearly not good enough to get regular minutes and he doesn’t do anything to help his team out.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Oct 16, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Again, it was a bogus call, if you look at the replay, Suter was about to hit Clarkson, Clarkson just defended himself, if anything that’s just Suter’s fault. IF it was a straight up hit in the numbers Shanahan would have a word with Clarkson, and he probably won’t at this point.
And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?
Clarkson had to defend himself from Suter? Are we talking about the same play? Suter went into the corners to get a puck and Clarkson hitting him from behind. I’m not sure what Suter could have possibly have done to threaten Clarkson.
Look, I’ve said in this recap it should have been matching minors or matching majors. I can understand it not really being worth 5 minutes; but Clarkson messed up by going for a hit there.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Oct 16, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Suter admitted in TG’s post that he went to hit him shoulder to shoulder but Clarkson pushed him off instead of taking the hit. Matching penalties is what should have happened but matching minors. I think what Weber did to Clarkson was way worse than what Clarkson “did” to Suter.
And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?
If Clarkson had hit him from behind, you might be right, but Clarkson did no such thing. He hit Suter from the side, but Suter fell kind of awkwardly into the boards. It was a terrible call.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
Here are the comments from three different people including the two involved in the play.
"I kind of went to hit him and he kind of pushed me on the hip," Suter said. "It was an accident. He didn’t mean to hurt me." -Ryan Suter
"In my opinion if I’m going full speed for a puck and the defenseman is in front of me, I’m not going to hit him until he gets that puck," Clarkson said "But if he stops and tries to lean into me, there’s not much I can do as a player. I’m going full speed. I can’t get out of the way. I can’t do anything. I’m lucky I didn’t get hammered…When I realized what he was trying to do, I just gave him a shove to push him off so I could continue to keep going and he went into the boards awkwardly." -Clarkson
DeBoer didn’t want to comment on the penalty call. "I don’t want to get fined," he said.
by DiffuseTheBob on Oct 16, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
1. I agree the call fell into a “grey” area where Suter knows DC is there and he pulls up before the boards in a real danger zone 5 feet away; if he pulls up 2 feet away he probably absorbs the hit against the wall but probably doesn’t have a play on the puck. He wasn’t hurt and DC didn’t follow through recklessly. There is no way that is a major and the hit by Weber was probably more dangerous.
2. Again I agree Cam is one dimensional but he can skate unlike that other slug the Devs still pay Peters. Buttt ….that is his job and down 2-0 on the road he did his job. I know “you” don’t feel this added anything to the teams effort but I think some viewpoints would differ. If your going to allow fighting in the game what Cam did was his job and I thought it was a hell of an effort in regard to the size mismatch and the way he approached the fight. I think the guy deserves some recognition if he does his job well.
the 3rd point is my POV in that this team is building nice chemistry and there is nice , balanced hierarchy within club. Maybe Cam is just the teams pet pitbull and a joke as far as his skills but there will be nights that his services or skillset will be welcome vs certain teams especially if they remain competitive throughout the year.
Listen, I’m not anti-fighting at all. But I want someone who can actually play on the 4th line and bout with some dudes. Janssen is not one of those guys. I always thought Clarkson could be, but his game seems to be changing in the right direction under Deboer. Mills can, and one way contract Boulton can. I’d rather have Pelley or Zharkov on the 4th line than 2 minute Janssen.
The fight was towards the end of the first. There was no real “turn” in momentum after that (especially since McGratton rocked Janssen). Sure, the Devils almost double them up in shots in the 2nd period (but the Corsi numbers were around even in the 2nd period from what I remember from last night’s gamethread).
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
You guys can’t just say “I want someone else”, you have to actually name someone. Are there realistic moves that could be made? If not, this is just… meaningless criticism.
He did
I’d rather have Pelley or Zharkov on the 4th line than 2 minute Janssen.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Oct 16, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
by the way, that was more of a general comment, not something directed specifically at Matt. There’s always some comments about getting rid of this guy or that one… it’s not that easy to move players and receive even moderately equal value in return.
You're right
Aside from waivers, you have to get something back in return. There isn’t a GM in the league that would give up anything for Janssen. None of them even tried to get him for nothing in the summer. I’ll point at about a dozen players in the Devils organization that I (and probably the majority here) would rather have on the 4th line than Janssen. Pelley, and the entire Albany forward contingent.
Go Devils
Go Jets
Need to lose weight?
See though, here’s the thing: It’s easy for us to site here and say “yea, anyone would be better than (Janssen, in this case)”. The problem is that just saying that “any forward in Albany would be better” doesn’t mean anything. Any one of us can sit here and talk about how Zharkov or Pelley can skate better or whatever (and I give credit where it’s due: at least we’re actually naming alternative players here), but without some sort of concrete data to back it up it’s nothing but empty opinion.
Not that bandying about our opinions is completely pointless… that can be fun, I guess, sometimes. I don’t know, I guess that it’s the whole calling for player’s heads that get’s to me. Of course, three games ago I was guilty of the same thing in relation to Fayne, so…
Cam Janssen played one shift after his fight. One. Either you had Ilya Kovalchuk double-shifting in his spot, or the fourth line didn’t see the ice at all. In addition, it wasn’t like there wasn’t much hockey played after the fight — Janssen’s penalty expired at 1:32 of the second period, which means there was roughly 43.5 minutes of hockey once he was done (less whatever time he had to sit in the box before a whistle set him free).
Peter DeBoer clearly saw no value in having Cam Janssen on the ice last night, and he’s the guy whose rear end rides on those decisions. If the coach doesn’t think there’s a benefit to having Cam Janssen playing, I think the rest of us who prefer Pelley or Henrique or Zharkov or whomever have a pretty good case.
If Janssen is a superior alternative to any or all of those players, where’s your hard data to back it up? It’s one thing to ask the rest of us for some evidence to base our cases on, but it’s fair to ask for the same from you.
He’s on the roster (for now). That’s a pretty huge data point.
I don’t completely disagree with what you guys are saying here, but… well, whatever. Pelley and Zharkov are easily available if DeBoer (and Lou) want to use them. It is a fourth line though, and DeBoer clearly like to maximize the use of his star players (26+ minutes for Illya, Larsson, Parese, Elias, etc…), so there’s a place for the ~5 minutes per game player like Janssen.
I guess that I just don’t understand what the problem with having a player like Janssen on the roster is. I think he brings a valuable element, even if it’s only utilized occasionally.
My 2 cents. When we’re speaking about Janssen we should keep an eye on Kovalchuk too.
Deboer could’ve decided to over-use Kovy on purpose. Probably because he knows the Russian really needs to feel he’s an important piece of his system. That would be a great decision.
I’m sure Kovy will be back to his usual NHL forwards leading 20-22 mins Ice-time soon enough, 30 minutes for a forward is just insane. So up to now, there’s no point to frustrate a prospect with only 3 minutes per game. Moreover Zharkov seemed to not be ready during preseason and his firsts games in Albany showed he wasn’t. But he’s doing better since.
So let’s see what happens when a 10 minutes guy will be needed.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Oct 16, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you’re confusing the role of a head coach and a general manager. Peter DeBoer has most of the input into who dresses on a given night. Lou Lamorello has most of the input into who is on the roster. Each certainly has rights to express their opinion on the other’s territory, but that’s where it ends. If DeBoer doesn’t want to play a particular guy, Lamorello doesn’t have a whole lot of say in the matter (short of firing the coach and assuming the job himself). If Lou doesn’t want a particular guy on the roster, he can trade/waive/demote the guy and Pete doesn’t have a whole lot of say in the matter.
There may be a need for an “enforcer” type on the roster. Is there really a purpose to having two guys — Janssen and Boulton — whose skills don’t go much beyond fisticuffs? And is there anything to gain by having both guys dressed on most nights when you might not need a single enforcer, let alone two?
Chicken-and-egg question: Did DeBoer decide the game situation warranted going with only three lines in the third period, thus leaving Boulton-Mills-Janssen without any playing time? (Boulton played one shift, with Josefson and Palmieri immediately following the end of the Devils’ PP at the start of the period…. Mills and Janssen did not play after the 2nd period.) Or did DeBoer decide he couldn’t get anything helpful out of Janssen and Boulton and therefore had to shorten his bench and cut the fourth line out entirely? (Presumably in this scenario, Mills would have played if there was a Devils’ PK situation)
Might we have seen four lines if Mills had been centering some combination of Pelley, Henrique, and Zharkov instead of two goons?
If DeBoer had a fourth line he felt he could put out there in certain situations during the third period of the Nashville game, might he have not felt the need to give his stars as many minutes as he did?
….
Players are on the roster or not on the roster for a variety of reasons. Just because someone is with the NHL club doesn’t mean they’re a better player, or a more viable alternative than someone who is not. Finances might dictate who is there and who is not — for example, Brayden Schenn (Philadelphia) is currently in the AHL because the Flyers don’t have cap space for him…. and the Flyers have said as much. Roster flexibility and/or waiver status might also dictate player movement to some degree. No matter what the reason, I don’t view the presence of Cam Janssen on the NHL roster as a prominent data point, especially when he’s played a total of six minutes and nineteen seconds this season. At some point, he’ll either be a healthy scratch on a semi-permanent basis or shipped to Albany.
Last season:
Janssen – 54GP – 1-3- 4pts…4:52 TOI/GP…at 5-on-5: minus-18.2 Corsi Relative (Corsi ON the ice minus Corsi OFF the ice). He was on the ice for 1.37 Goals/60mins for…and 2.97 Goals/60mins against. He also took 13 minor penalties.
Zharkov – 38 GP – 2-2- 4 pts…11:19 TOI/GP…0.2 Corsi Relative..On the ice for 1.23 Goals/60 mins forced and 1.08 Goals/60 mins against. He took 1 minor penalty.
Pelley – 74 GP – 3-7- 10 pts…11:48 TOI/GP…minus-15.0 Corsi Relative…On the ice for 1.11 Goals/60 mins for and 1.82 Goals/60 mins against.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
2009-2010
Janssen – 43 GP – 0 pts….4:42 TOI/GP…minus-3.9 Corsi Relative…On the ice 1.78 Goals For/60 and 2.37 Goals against/60.
Zharkov – 40 GP 0-10- 10 pts…11:26 TOI/GP….14.5 Corsi Relative (3rd on the team)…1.77 Goals For/60 and 1.62 goals against/60.
Pelley – 63 GP 2-8 – 10 pts….7:51 TOI/GP…..minus-4.4 Corsi Relative….1.23 goals for/60 and 1.73 goals against/60
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I love numbers, but simply posting them without saying anything in the way of analysis doesn’t really say anything, if you see what I mean.
And shockingly, this is exactly what I said below this..and you requested data to back it up. I didn’t think I needed to repeat myself but I guess I did
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s really no need for that dismissive attitude.
It’s obvious that Ohm didn’t understand what point you were trying to make or didn’t see your “conclusions post” which was meant to go with the data you provided.
Or, as he said there was a cross-post problem.
This is not the first time I’ve noticed you be quite frankly rude, btw. You may think it’s justifiable in the heat of a discussion, but it’s not.
by Alan Wright on Oct 16, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t want to come off that way – sorry for that.
This is not the first time I’ve noticed you be quite frankly rude, btw. You may think it’s justifiable in the heat of a discussion, but it’s not.
Me, really? I usually stay away these long replied comments. If I come off that way to anyone, then sorry for that as well.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s cool. It’s just really easy for internet text to be misinterpreted as sarcastic, condescending, etc even if the same words spoken in person do not come off that way because the person speaking them is smiling, talking with a friend, etc.
by Alan Wright on Oct 16, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This is not the first time I’ve noticed you be quite frankly rude, btw. You may think it’s justifiable in the heat of a discussion, but it’s not.
Matthew really ? I thought he was one of the coolest guy out there… w-h-a-t-e-v-e-r. :)
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Oct 16, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
5 is greater than 2, 6 is greater than 2, 4 is greater than 2.
Some numbers speak for themselves and don’t need analysis.
Go Devils
Go Jets
Need to lose weight?
Conclusions – Janseen is horrible when it comes to anything but fighting. Pelley and Zharkov are much better defensive players. Zharkov is the best offensive player of this group. And as I said, if Kovy is going to be double shifted on that line, why not have someone like him who can complement him?
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, fair enough. However, DeBoer clearly wants a Janssen. Lou clearly wants a Janssen. A Pelley or Zharkov would be better for a third line, but we have better players on the roster for that role.
Like I said in the post above, I don’t see what the issue is with having a Janssen on the roster is, especially since our roster gives DeBoer the luxury of only giving him limited ice time.
He’s fine being on the roster. 17,000 some odd seats in the stands for him.
Go Devils
Go Jets
Need to lose weight?
Well, ok, reading this a second time I think that you’re saying something like “bench (or scratch) Janssen and play Pelley or Zharkov”, correct?
Pelley seems like a lateral move… I don’t really see anything changing there.
Zharkov… I don’t know. He doesn’t exactly play a very physical game, from what I remember.
That's exactly what I'm saying
Even drop Janssen if it’s possible (veteran limit in AHL is probably a problem)
Pelley is not a lateral option. There’s plenty Pelley can do that Janssen doesn’t. He can play the PK when needed (say Zubrus, or Josefson get called…he’s a good replacement). And Pelley can actually play 7-10 minutes without being completely terrible. Pelley can fight too if the games calls for it.
As for Zharkov – he can skate. I still think he needs glasses becuase he shoots wide a lot. And he can puck handle. But if DeBoer is going to double shift Kovy on the 4th line, why not have players on the 4th line that can actually keep up with him? Zharkov would be a great option in that sense. A Kovy-Mills/Pelley/Henrique-Zharkov 4th line in close games is a lot better than Kovy-Mills-Boulton.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
So in conclusion: Zharkov is Charlie Sheen a.k.a Rick Vaughn from Major League.
by DiffuseTheBob on Oct 16, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Zharkov = Wild Thing
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Oct 16, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with SonicJoe, the fight was lame.
Besides that. Jannsen didn’t out slug McGrattan. Jannsen lost that fight big time and it was honestly embarrassing he tried to drag it out.
That’s funny, I thought it was inspiring (and if you read Gulitti, so did Deboer). The man was fighting a guy much bigger than him and was taking plenty of shots and didn’t give up.
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis
You must be new here. Stick around long enough and you’ll realize that you aren’t a “sophisticated” hockey fan if you like such “horrible” things such as hitting and fighting.
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis
Some notes from my POV
Clarkson’s penalty was not a 5 minute, yeah he saw the numbers, but he didn’t neccessarily shove him from the back into the boards, its not even close to the same thing. Especially when Suter was about to hit Clarkson and Clarkson just pushed him back.
The Devils showed great resiliency for sure, and this is rare but today the Devils didn’t necessarily make Rinne look great, he was just unbelievable. The fact that we didn’t score four or five is remarkable in itself, but that the team still came in and tried its hardest and actually got the win is great moving forward.
Sykora looked too slow to keep up with Elias and Parise as you said in the recap. Well see how it is moving forward, but I wasn’t comfortable with a line of Tedenby – Sykora Clarkson. Sykora is really the center on that line??? I’d rather send Teddy up but keep Zubrus at center.
Last thing- Deboer said that Jansenn’s fight was actually important, and rose the Devils bench, since we can’t really tell if it did ( They didn’t score that period, or on the next shift or whatever), Ill take his word for it.
And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?
Oh yeah, and definitely agree Larsson had a rough night, but its pretty clear the Nashville players were targeting him all night. It’s fine though, about four or five miscellaneous passes in 25 minutes isn’t the end of the world.
And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?
Last thing- Deboer said that Jansenn’s fight was actually important, and rose the Devils bench, since we can’t really tell if it did ( They didn’t score that period, or on the next shift or whatever), Ill take his word for it.
What else is DeBoer going to say? “Oh, yeah, #25 was so great, I didn’t even have him play beyond his PIM count.” DeBoer’s actions spoke louder than his words.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Oct 16, 2011 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
If he didn’t think Janssen was important, he wouldn’t play him at all. Now I don’t believe Janssen is important, but DeBoer said he was – hard not to take him at his word there.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
The fact that we didn’t score four or five is remarkable in itself, but that the team still came in and tried its hardest and actually got the win is great moving forward.
If those Clarkson chances were loaded for Parise or Elias, they’d have put them in and there would be 4 or 5 goals. But, that was not the case.
I agree, though, that Rinne was playing some seriously good hockey there.
thankfully we have the scoring chances project. i don’t think parise or elias are better finishers than clarkson, and i think we’ll see that.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
Every player misses some “should have had that one” chances, and every player gets flat-out robbed at times by goalies. Clarkson had both in a game, but that’s better than not getting any chances at all. As long as they keep generating chances, they will start to pot some goals in bunches. Both Quick and Rinne played very good games against the Devils.
I hope Clarkson plays like he did after he took that penalty every time he takes a penalty (even if it’s a coincidental minor).
Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
Eric Staal is Ugly
by Kevin Sellathamby on Oct 16, 2011 9:01 AM EDT reply actions
Recap Updated
NHL.com got their highlight video up, so I’ve added it.
The Division Snapshot should be up around lunchtime.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
I can’t believe they showed Kovy’s shootout goal, but not Parise’s. Both were beauties.
by SonicJoe on Oct 16, 2011 9:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They did the same for the Kings game as well. Kovalchuk’s goal was shown since it was the game winner, and Hedberg’s stop on Kopitar was shown. However, I felt the Parise goal against the Kings was better, and the Hedberg stop on Gagne was better. Yet, wasting another 10 seconds to shown us both goals is clearly too much trouble for them to compile into a highlight video.
by DiffuseTheBob on Oct 16, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Can anyone explain what Parise did? I did not watch it.
Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies
He went vintage Parise..He dragged Rinne to one side, and went forehand to the other side for an easy goal..
by Marty's Better #30 on Oct 16, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Clarkson
Jeez….I get so tired of the “Let’s rip Clarkson a new one!!” parade that shows up after every game. Give the guy a break. He is a capable player…..if people stop having such high expectations of him, and lay off the harsh criticism he MIGHT actually be a steady and consistently decent player. It seems like fans have built up such high expectations of the team that if a player doesn’t quite meet the standards that the fans have set, he becomes fair game for rampant criticism. Now I have followed the Devs from day 1…..season ticket holder and all. I went thru the Wensink, Levo, Howatt, etc. era…I have seen BAD PLAY…..but Clarkie does not deserve the constant and harsh criticism!
Do you think Clarkson comes onto blogs, forums, and message boards to read our disparaging comments about him? Do you think he curls up into a ball at night when a person with the login name of DiffuseTheBob makes a critical remark about him?
Clarkson’s play has nothing to do with we say here. If we had a Clarkson appreciation day here nothing would change. He would still play the same game, make the same plays, and the same mistakes.
The fans that rip Clarkson apart do not effect his play in the slightest. He does not play for the Rangers where the media would constantly rip him to shreds.
The fans do not have high expectations of Clarkson, they have realistic expectations that have been fed to us throughout Clarkson’s career. We have always been told he can be a 20-20 player, and with the contract he was given, I do not see why these expectations are unrealistic.
All that aside, Clarkson played well last night. He moved into dangerous scoring positions several times, was a threat around the net, and his positioning was excellent. More games like that will quiet the message board criticism that clearly effects Clarkson’s play.
by DiffuseTheBob on Oct 16, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
You do know I praised him in this recap, right?
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Oct 16, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but if you look in the gamethread, you’d see so much Clarkson hatred.
And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?
Yeah, but people are entitled to their opinions and moreover, Clarkson’s penalty cost the Devils dearly. He did better as the game went on, but if you combine that penalty, that miss in the first period, and the last three games, it really is understandable that fans are down on Clarkson.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Oct 16, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
John, you hit the nail on the head with Clarkson in your recap.
I have been impressed with Clarkson over these last two games. Against LA in the second period he had a shift where he was flying around like a wrecking ball, hitting opposing players, winning loose puck battles, and extending the play in the Kings zone. The fans even gave his line a nice ovation as the team changed lines.
Aside from the 5 minute major last night, he played considerably well. The key to his play is positioning, and he found himself in favorable shooting spots several times last night. His open-net miss only happened because he drove to the net anticipating a rebound off the bad angle shot by Parise. He put himself in an excellent position to score, and those are the type of opportunities that can drive him toward the 20-goal mark as long as he converts. On the powerplay rang a shot off the post, and then was flat out robbed by Rinne. Again, his positioning was perfect on both opportunities. His positional play finally paid off when Tedenby sneakily stole the puck, driving to the net while giving Tedenby the lane he needed to execute the pass if he chose to do so.
As I said above, if he continues to play this well positionally the goals will come, and the fans will lighten up with their criticism.
by DiffuseTheBob on Oct 16, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
I thought Clarkson was an idiot for that penalty on Suter (because of the consequences: 2 goals), but on further review I saw it didn’t deserve the 5 min call it got. So, my fault for overreacting.
Also, Clarkson made up for it by generating a lot of chances (and therefore attention/ respect from the Preds’ D-corps) and tucking in that pass from Tedenby.
So, I hope Clarkson doesn’t become the scapegoat that Winky Rolston was last year.
Encouraging
It is encouraging that the Devils now have 6 points out a possible 8, after the disappointing start against Philadelphia. This is a team leaning a new system under a new head coach, a team playing without Zajac, their number 1 centerman, it is a team playing with new lines combinations with the exception of the Tallinder-Fayne pairing, and it is a team playing with 5 players with less than one full season of NHL experience. The Devils are a team that should and will get better.
by Jose_A_Alvarez on Oct 16, 2011 10:09 AM EDT reply actions
Do you know the average age of our team?
by Marty's Better #30 on Oct 16, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
using the 24-man roster on the Devils Website the average age is 28.3, so 28 years old.
This does include Zajac as well.
Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies
The average age of 28.3 puts the Devils as the 26th youngest team in the league. Only 4 teams are older than the Devils currently.
However, when you exclude our goalies, it puts the Devils at an average age of 27.1.
Nashville is the youngest team in the league with an average age of 25.8, and Detroit is the oldest with an average age of 29.5.
by DiffuseTheBob on Oct 16, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
We seem so much younger then we really are!
by Marty's Better #30 on Oct 16, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Grandpa Goalies….and they are putting those young whippersnappers in their place.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
And apparently Tererri was in net in practice, as Chico showed in a clip. He’s at least 40 or 45 by now! Not quite a Grandpa yet, I hope.
Tererri is more like 50-55. He retired when Brodeur took the rains from him, back at the beginning of Marty’s career.
by SonicJoe on Oct 16, 2011 3:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No? He won a Cup with the Devils in 2000.
He’ll be 47 in like a month. His last NHL season was in 2000-2001 with Devils and Islanders. He played in Albany for one game in 05-06.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? I don’t remember him being on the team that long. Of course I was in college for most of those seasons, so I guess that would have an affect. Lol.
by SonicJoe on Oct 16, 2011 4:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is why statisticians exclude the outliers. Get rid of Marty’s age and Larsson’s age (the oldest and the youngest) and you will get another relevant number that means absolutely nothing because Detriot is the oldest team in the league and they are a cup favorite.
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis
Well, the irrational dislike of Clarkson keeps going here. Heck, even Suter said that it was “an accident” that Clarkson put him into the boards… apparently one of the refs didn’t even want to call anything! After major penalty, Devils’ David Clarkson endures a major ribbing
You keep using that word “irrational,” yet I don’t think you know what it means.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Oct 16, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I know exactly what it means. the repetition of your personal opinion that Clarkson is the worst player in the world is exhausting. (to be fair, it’s more of a problem because there are always three or four others who chime in to support your viewpoint in the comments) Regardless, the Clarkson bashing is clearly irrational at this point. It seems to be based more on proving that your view is correct rather than any kind of dispassionate analysis.
I mostly enjoy reading your columns here, but…
It’s not my personal opinion that Clarkson is the worst player in the world. If you’ve read this very post, then you’ll notice that I’ve said quite a few good things about Clarkson’s performance last night.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Oct 16, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
John, you called him “the goat” throughout, after calling him “stupid” for a hit that no one else seems to be criticizing to the extent that you ripped into him for. Just because you followed that up with a few complements… even there you still called him “the goat”! I don’t understand how you don’t understand being criticized for being irrational when you’re stooping to name calling.
He used the two contrasting viewpoints as a way to show the type of game Clarkson had.
His major penalty, even though many of us disagree with it ended up putting the Devils in a 2-0 hole. Couple that with his open-net miss, and of course Clarkson was “the goat” of the first period.
John follows that up with his next paragraph, “Clarkson The Hero” while considerably praising his play. Last time I checked, a “Hero” does not mean “worst player in the world.”
by DiffuseTheBob on Oct 16, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny, since I’m disagreeing with the myopic “dump Clarkson” narrative (along with a handful of other commentators, I might add).
You’ve taken it upon yourself to cavalierly rush to the defense of David Clarkson as unfairly persecuted, which is fine because you’re entitled to your own opinion, however you’ve offered nothing in the way of evidence to support your defense.
Your entire defense consists of, and I won’t even need to go beyond this string of comments to highlight them, nothing but logical fallacies:
- Blatant hyperbole
the repetition of your personal opinion that Clarkson is the worst player in the world is exhausting.
No one has made that claim.
One can usually dismiss simple exaggeration to make a point because many people do it, however this isn’t simple exaggeration. It’s deliberate misrepresentation in an attempt to discredit someone. Additionally, the “exhausting” bit implies that the misrepresented action is continuous and unrelenting—which is simply not the case.
- Dismissiveness, or, “creating the high road”
Regardless, the Clarkson bashing is clearly irrational at this point.
This one is chock full of fallacies.
“Bashing” is clearly used specifically and solely to set any negative opinion of Clarkson and his play in a bad light, even if justified because, apparently, it’s not possible to voice a negative opinion about someone without “bashing” them.
“Irrational” means that there is no rationale to have negative views, and yet there are. A brief, and incomplete, recap:
- he is paid more than his play warrants
- he takes stupid, ill-timed penalties
- he falls down a lot
- his breakout season is four years in the making and still nowhere to be found
- he has a tendency to hog the puck and make poor shot choices
It’s not to say he doesn’t have some positive traits or value to the team, but he’s being scrutinized because he hasn’t lived up to expectations and doesn’t seem to be developing. That is, what we see very well may be his peak, and it’s below the ceiling he’s capable of.
- Basic transference
It seems to be based more on proving that your view is correct rather than any kind of dispassionate analysis.
Clarkson’s shortcomings and the reasons for people’s dislike for him have been covered, explained with statistics and observations and are completely rational. Perhaps sometimes people are too hard on him, but their reasoning is still sound.
Contrarily, your defense of him is based solely on calling his detractors wrong.
- Blatant misrepresentation
John, you called him "the goat" throughout, after calling him "stupid" for a hit that no one else seems to be criticizing to the extent that you ripped into him for. Just because you followed that up with a few complements… even there you still called him "the goat"! I don’t understand how you don’t understand being criticized for being irrational when you’re stooping to name calling.
This is either poor reading comprehension or being deliberately obtuse, and I’m not sure which is worse.
This one deserves to be broken down further:
you called him "the goat" throughout
John used a simple literary device to illustrate the good and the bad of Clarkson’s game.
He did not “call him the goat throughout.” He outlined how he could have been considered the goat. By my count the word “goat” was used four times in the entire article: once in the header; once to say “he very nearly became the goat”; once to show how, in conjunction with his whiffed shot on a sure-thing goal, he could have been a major goat; and once at the end in a question asking if others saw him as a goat or a hero or something in-between.
after calling him "stupid" for a hit that no one else seems to be criticizing to the extent that you ripped into him for.
Technically he called the hit stupid, and called Clarkson an idiot for making the hit, but that’s splitting hairs.
It was a stupid hit, and many criticized it because it was largely unnecessary and put the team on the PK. Had the Predators not retaliated and then taken another penalty of their own, it could have been a lot worse.
Regardless, what does anyone else’s criticism have to do with anything? John’s entitled to his opinion just as anyone else is. Feel free to disagree with it, but citing a lack of vocal supporting criticism does not mean his opinion is wrong.
Just because you followed that up with a few complements…even there you still called him "the goat"!
No he didn’t. The closest he came was in saying that, “If it wasn’t for that major penalty, then we would have had a more favorable opinion of his night just on that alone,” or “Clarkson had his chance to redeem himself (to a point) and he made the most of it,” both of which are absolutely true statements.
You’re looking way too hard for something to be indignant about.
I don’t understand how you don’t understand being criticized for being irrational when you’re stooping to name calling.
As outlined above by Alan Wright, it was part of a literary device. You conveniently disregard and dismiss the section entitled “Clarkson – The Hero” as “a few complements” when it’s just as positive as “Clarkson – The Goat” is negative.
Overall, Clarkson had a mixed game where he had some high points and some low points. If he hadn’t scored the game tying goal, the penalty and the missed shot would loom much larger, but he did bury it and also had some other nice shots, so there’s nothing irrational about highlighting the Jekyll and Hyde game he had, nor does doing so make it “Clarkson bashing.”
by elesias on Oct 17, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Calm down. I’m not indignant at all.
It’s nice that you’re willing to defend your friend here, but shrugging off criticism (which was always intended to be constructive, by the way) doesn’t help anything.
Anyway, I didn’t (and likely wont) read your entire rant here, but I get the jist of it. I’d like to point out that I’m hardly the only person who has criticized the scorn that Clarkson has received on this site. If you want to hate on him that’s fine, that’s your business. I assume that John actually wants readers though, and so the criticism of his writing is offered with that in mind.
I’m not defending anyone. If you’d read my “rant” you’d know that.
I’d like to point out that I’m hardly the only person who has criticized the scorn that Clarkson has received on this site.
Congratulations?
The point remains: your defense of Clarkson is to call his critics wrong. His critics have empirical and anecdotal evidence to support their criticisms, and have every right to be disappointed in his performances.
If you’re going to defend him, then defend him by refuting the data points against him, not by whining about how hard people are being on him.
I assume that John actually wants readers though, and so the criticism of his writing is offered with that in mind.
Yeah, I’m going to call shenanigans on that one.
Yea, ok. There’s no private messaging system or ignore feature here, otherwise I’d use them. You obviously have some sort of personal issue with me, for some unfathomable reason. Nothing wrong with that, I’ll just have to remember to avoid your taunting, sarcastic one line “replies” from now on.
Don’t flatter yourself. I’ve no issue with you personally, merely with those who climb up on their high horses and cast scorn down upon any who disagree with them, and resort to logical fallacies to discredit them.
You want to defend Clarkson, or any other hot-button issue around here, that’s fine, but actually defend him/it.
Based on your unwillingness and/or inability to properly respond to someone calling you out, however, I don’t expect much in the way of change from what we’ve already seen out of you.
I agree that Clarkson is sometimes treated irrationally and unfairly by this blog’s mods, authors, and in the comments. I was unfair to him during the game (regarding his penality) but have since said I was being unfair and that he should grit to get so many chance.
But, I don’t think is the best example of that. I think, rather, it’s merely a literary device to contrast Clarkson as the once-goat who became the hero. It is something like using damnatio and apotheosis as antithesis, or a direct comparison. There could be a more precise Greek term for the rhetorical device employed there, but the name escapes me.
Kinda off topic and un-Devils related. But thumbs up or down on the Preds new uniforms?
I love them
Thumbs up
Ditto
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I like their Away jerseys more than the Home, probably because that gold is unconventional and I’m kind of a uniform purist.
They should have an alternate home with the Tennessee flag emblem from the shoulder patch as the front logo.
by rtrstevec on Oct 16, 2011 2:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I wonder what their 3rd jersey will be in the future.

I love how that secondary logo is in the shape of a guitar pick.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I really liked their blue home uniform last year, but this one is disgusting.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Oct 16, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it just the color that some people find these bad?
Yellow jerseys are unique these days – It’s gives them (and a city not known for hockey) some identity. They simplified their logo (took out pointless colors). They got away from the usual reds, blues, and blacks set the NHL is stacked with.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
In truth this yellow uniform would’ve a superb idea for road games, but it’s too light for a home uniform
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Oct 16, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Go the old school Kings route. That would have been awesome, but then their home would have been blue. Who knows, maybe that’s what they wanted, and the NHL said no – white only
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Oct 16, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
if i’m not mistaken , we didn’t get a 3 game winning streak last year unti about a month into Lemaire’s reign. Last season really makes me appreciate this team even more
Maybe that was their plan all along.
by SonicJoe on Oct 16, 2011 2:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

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