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The NHL, NBC, and Winter Classic -- How the NHL Hurts Its' Teams and Itself

 

Welcome to Part I of a long article I wrote about the Devils history, attendance, and new supporters section. This wasn't originally planned on being included in the series, but when I saw a piece written on Puck Daddy the other day I felt like I had to start off by mentioning it. Part I is the most broad of the series and is applicable for all the NHL teams. It won't address the Devils as much as the pieces that will follow.

Part I

Recently Puck Daddy lead editor and noted Devils fan Greg Wyshynski posted the following quote from Gary Bettman about the team selection process for the Winter Classic:

"An important element of doing the Winter Classic is obviously the national TV ratings, so we have to be comfortable that whatever matchup we’re going to do will do a good number."

As he normally does, Wyshynski jokingly responded by following the quote with his own analysis of,

"So get ready for "HBO 24/7 Penguins/Flyers: Road to The Winter Classic at Target Field."

As funny as that quote may be, we as Devils fans might have a hard time laughing because at this point we honestly wouldn’t be surprised if it actually happened. We’re not wrong to think this way either. In fact there are about 22 other NHL teams who probably agree and feel as hopeless as us of ever receiving a Winter Classic. Gary Bettman said himself that national TV ratings are what matters, so we can rule out Canadian teams whose numbers don’t count, as well as other subpar U.S. NHL markets.

But is there room in a Winter Classic for a medium popularity NHL team? The Classic history so far shows no. And is the Winter Classic really the only way that Bettman and NBC screw over the vast majority of fans in the name of money and misguided intentions?

Star-divide

Have you ever been excited to watch the "NHL on NBC Game of The Week" on a Sunday? Maybe you have Versus and NHL Network or maybe you don’t. Either way, any hockey fan would agree that it’s nice to sit down on a Sunday afternoon and watch two teams you may not normally get to see battle it out to the call of Doc Emerick on a channel that almost everyone has access to.  

Have you ever looked at the schedule for "NHL on NBC Game of The Week" and thought that you were noticing a trend? Don’t worry, you’re not imagining things, you just haven’t heard the news that the "NHL on NBC Game of The Week" is just another way of saying "NHL on NBC: We Only Ever Show Games Featuring Teams From These Few U.S. Cities."

Congratulations to the fans of Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, New York Rangers, and Washington. These fans have surely already noticed that their teams pop up as a "Game of The Week" more frequently than others. In fact, no team will be broadcast on NBC unless it playing against one of those 7 teams. And even to be on the list of teams "privileged" enough to play one of these teams on NBC is a rarity. Many teams are never featured at all, and most of the time the "Game of The Week" is just a combination of the 7 "chosen" teams anyway.

So why is this, you ask? And why has it always been the same 7 teams featured on NBC each year? It’s because ever since the NHL partnered with NBC they’ve never shied away from making it completely obvious that the "Game of The Week" is all about ratings possibilities. The NHL is trying to grow its’ profile, and as part of this decision they’ve decided that having games aired nationally is worth giving NBC the exclusive right to dictate which teams get featured, which do not, and the frequency.

We can’t pretend to be surprised that the major reasoning behind this is the money. But we shouldn’t forget that NBC is a massive corporation much more concerned with its’ bottom line than actually growing the sport of hockey. Viewers in Canada are automatically screwed because they do not factor into viewership ratings, so it’s a no-brainer that all 7 of these teams come from big U.S. cities and have been (with exception to the Rangers) among the top NHL teams in recent seasons.

Now don’t get me wrong, if you watch the NBA, NFL, MLB, or College Football you know that all sports pretty much do the same thing. There’s occasionally some room for fluctuation, but in the case of primetime space on ESPN or Sunday/Monday Night Football, most of the participant teams have been decided based on rivalry projections and skill/popularity before the season even begins.

But even if the NHL says "but all the other leagues are doing it", they’d still be leaving out the fact that no other league excludes as high a percentage of their member teams as the NHL. This year alone one of the most prized spots on TV, Monday Night Football, will feature 24 out of 32 different NFL teams. When you compare this with the idea that NBC will only show games involving at least one of 7 NHL teams, you just can’t help but wonder whether the NHL is doing a great job in exposing our sport nationally or instead giving casual fans the impression that the entire NHL consists of only 7 teams all of which are on the East coast. In other words, is the NHL allowing themselves to be NBC’s b****?

Is anyone surprised to think that the Winter Classic has, besides Buffalo once, only ever featured members of the chosen 7? Yet this fact bothers me even more. Does the NHL really think that fans from other teams simply don’t care? Is it too farfetched to think that two other teams selling 40,000 seats and having solid TV ratings is still possible for a potentially once in a lifetime event like this? Aren’t hockey fans and sports fans in general attending/viewing the games anyway even if they don’t root for the teams being featured?

The truth is that the variables used by the NHL and NBC to determine who gets televised on NBC/Versus or who gets showcased in the Winter Classic are incredibly flawed. And we don’t have to look very far to see an easy example of why. It’s well known that despite being a consistently great team, the Devils normally finish in the lower 10 of NHL teams in terms of average home attendance. Lesser known is the fact that the Devils consistently finish around the top 5 of NHL teams in terms of average road attendance. It’s not just a weird thing that’s happened once, and the league data proves that for many years in a row the Devils either make for exciting games for opposing fans to watch, or that Devils fans travel well and are located all throughout the country.

Average road attendance aside, maybe the Devils don’t get included because home attendance is what matters. So let’s look at some more facts on a chosen team like the Pittsburgh Penguins before jumping to conclusions. The statistics show that Pittsburgh averages less than 3,000 more fans at home than the Devils do, and their average road attendance is typically within a few hundred fans of ours. Furthermore we know that the Devils share a problem (NYR, Philly) that no other teams in the league are faced with; we’re located within a 90 minute drive of both the Flyers and Rangers. Knowing this we can assume our home numbers are hurt by losing some North Jersey fans to NYR and South Jersey fans to Philly.

Considering all of this and how small of a difference the home attendance numbers are, how does the league justify giving Pittsburgh massive NBC coverage and inclusion in two Winter Classics so far?

The fact is that if a team like the Devils were involved in the Winter Classic it would still sell out and would still have great TV ratings. When you realize that Pittsburgh has a bigger population and cheaper ticket prices to help them out, a 3,000 difference in average home attendance seems very negligible. The strong road average attendance ratings show that the Devils have fans all over who will either tune in on TV or travel back home to see an amazing game. It doesn’t even need to be the nearby Flyers or Rangers, but match up the Devils against any of the teams in the Atlantic division and it will still sell out.

Finally, we’d be ignorant to think that the Devils are the only team struggling through this situation, but they’re the easiest team for me to reference and easily illuminate the hypocrisy of NHL/NBC decisions. The sheer amount of teams ignored by the NHL and NBC is probably exactly why Wyshynski made his sarcastic remarks to begin with. The "NHL Game of The Week on NBC" schedule for the 2011-2012 season is linked below. The first featured game of the year is this week and the continued requirement that at least one "chosen 7" team be included in every broadcast is still there, and ultimately demonstrates that there’s no reason for fans of the 23 other teams to believe that anything will be changing anytime soon. I’m not holding my breath.

So how long did we sign that new contract with NBC for again?

 

Sources:

NHL Attendance Ratings/Data

2011-2012 Season -- NHL on NBC/Versus

2011 Season -- Monday Night Football

All FanPosts and FanShots are the respective work of the author and not representative of the writers or other users of In Lou We Trust.

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Nice article.

Couple of talking points:

Considering all of this and how small of a difference the home attendance numbers are, how does the league justify giving Pittsburgh massive NBC coverage and inclusion in two Winter Classics so far?

Two words: Sidney Crosby.

While NBC most probably only cares about the ratings and doesn’t give two figs about growing the sport (though the argument might be made that they do to a degree since they’re locked into a long-term broadcasting deal with them), the NHL has a terrific interest in using opportunities like the poorly named “Game of the Week” (seriously, why not just call it “Sunday on the Allegheny” or something?) and the Winter Classic to appeal to the casual and non-fans while simultaneously throwing a bone to their larger fanbases.

The fact is that if a team like the Devils were involved in the Winter Classic it would still sell out and would still have great TV ratings.

Perhaps, but the Devils have something else working against them and that’s their stigma as a boring team. For example, I have more than a few friends who follow other sports actively but for whom describing them as “casual fans” of hockey would be stretching the definition. They see game scores on the ticker at the bottom of SportsCenter and that’s about the extent of their interest. They consider themselves Rangers and/or Flyers fans, but couldn’t name 5 guys on the rosters if their life depended on it. It is these people who are, in my experience, typical of the non-hardcore hockey fan in America who might be tempted to watch a nationally broadcast game if nothing else were on, who, based on outdated stereotypes and lazy journalism, continue to perpetuate and believe the hurtful image.

I can almost see the furrow of Bettman’s brow when the idea of the Devils getting a WC is brought up. “But, they’re boring!”

Finally, we’d be ignorant to think that the Devils are the only team struggling through this situation, but they’re the easiest team for me to reference and easily illuminate the hypocrisy of NHL/NBC decisions.

Indeed. But your title is misleading in a sense because there’s nothing saying it has to be fair. It’s remarkably unfair, but there’s nothing saying every team should get one.

Personally, I don’t watch a single minute of the Winter Classic. I also don’t watch 24/7 or click on links—here on SBN or on any other sports site I might be on—that go to stories even tangentially related to either. Maybe if enough people voiced their displeasure by taking away their ratings and web traffic, the League and NBC might be given reason to reconsider.

by elesias on Oct 28, 2011 4:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for the feedback!

At first I jokingly laughed at your Sidney Crosby answer for why Pittsburgh has been so heavily adored by the league, and then when I realized you’re probably right, I cried for the 29 other teams that might be looked at by NBC and the league much differently had they only sucked as much as Pittsburgh for that one year.

While NBC most probably only cares about the ratings and doesn’t give two figs about growing the sport (though the argument might be made that they do to a degree since they’re locked into a long-term broadcasting deal with them)

I’m glad that you touched on how NBC should be concerned with the welfare of the NHL because of the huge contract they just signed. But the reason I didn’t mention it until the end of my post is because I believe the reasons below show why NBC doesn’t care at all.

I couldn’t agree more with you that the "Game of The Week" is an awful name. But wait a second, because it’s my opinion that if you put yourself in the shoes of the NHL/NBC you’ll figure out exactly why they use this title to describe the game….

Let’s picture anyone — from the non-NHL fan, to the barely casual, to above average fan — scrolling through the channels on a Sunday. As this fan gets near NBC they’ll notice the description of "NHL Game of The Week – Live" on the channel guide. What the hell does "Game of The Week" mean anyway? I bet most people might assume that the NHL and NBC are predicting this game to be the most interesting/entertaining of all the NHL games that week. And based on the title can you blame anyone for thinking this way? But as more dedicated hockey fans than most, we know that this is complete BS.

1) We know that you can’t predict what the best weekly game will be, and that they certainly aren’t all going to fall on Sundays when the league hardly schedules on Sundays to begin with.

3) We know that the matchups they choose are done during the summer using little more than just speculation. And that the teams involved in these matchups always include a member of the chosen 7, and even in the instances where there’s actually flex matchups, the backups also consist of these chosen teams.

4) We know that above all, the reason these teams were chosen to participate in these games is because they all represent big U.S. cities whose fans watch hockey. They’re 100% guaranteed to be at least decent ratings wise for NBC, and they’re 0% guaranteed to be a good game for the fan.

I think that the NHL signed over the rights granting permission to NBC to choose which games and teams are featured. Hockey can obviously survive even if NBC only broadcasts the same 7 or 15 teams each year. NBC knows that it isn’t killing the league and thus hurting itself by only broadcasting “safe bet” games for TV ratings.

So who’s the loser in all of this besides the fans/players of the teams who never get to see their favorite team on the national spotlight? How about the casual fan who was clicking through the channels and noticed “NHL Game of The Week” and decided to tune in only to see what could very possibly be an average or below average game in quality? This same casual fan who was purposely duped by the NHL/NBC into thinking there was something special about this game might not ever watch hockey again.

Like I said before, you can never predict the quality of a game beforehand. But for the NHL to allow NBC to get away with so little flexibility in which teams play just shows to me that the NHL doesn’t even itself care whether or not that Sunday game is any good or not. And considering how the Sunday game is pretty much the best possible method right now to reach out to the casual fan, it also shows how dumb the NHL is.

by NJallDay on Oct 28, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think that limiting any form of hockey exposure is hurting the NHL has much as helping it

your not helping the teams that are quite talented and could really us the help. the sharks have been amazing recently, so why havent they been featured at all? even them traveling one of the special seven would be better for me. its almost as if the league wants to go back to the original 6 in terms of teams that matter. i really think its a mistake. if im not a hockey fan in san jose, even watching this game how does it help me get invested in hockey? the winter classic was a brilliant idea, but they are ruining it by making it routine. now, if the capitals eventually start to suck and they keep with them i can understand; since it will be a detroit lions on thanksgiving kinda thing. but i serious doubt that will ever happen.

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by nodisrespect on Oct 29, 2011 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

East coast bias, maybe. After NBC’s game, the Versus games probably get the highest viewership, and those are generally East team home games (or, at the furthest, in Minnesota). 10pm Sportscenter will also get in complete highlights from East games while West games will still be going.

if im not a hockey fan in san jose, even watching this game how does it help me get invested in hockey?

These few teams get big ratings nationwide. Minnesota, Buffalo, and a few others kill it locally but can’t draw the national audience, which is what NBC wants. Chances are you’ve heard of their favorite seven….but have you heard of Florida? San Jose? (okay, maybe, since Melrose had picked them to win the Cup like four years in a row) LA? Anaheim? Not as much.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Oct 29, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly, maybe you haven’t heard of Florida, LA, Anaheim. Maybe the fans from those areas don’t even know the channel the local hockey team plays on because it might be high up. So why not feature them in an incredible spotlight like the “Game of The Week”? Maybe fans from those areas will scroll through and see the local NHL team that they know is nearby but have never had a chance to watch, and maybe they’ll tune in and become fans. We can never know if this is a possibility if the NHL and NBC continue to refuse providing all the opportunities to the same ratings-proven teams this year.

by NJallDay on Oct 29, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s all looking for the national audience. I don’t know about you, but I’d be much more likely to tune into Celtics-Sixers than Wizards-Bobcats, even though I’m from DC. I’m much more likely to go for the good, big-name team.

Same thing applies here. While most of the time that doesn’t happen, sometimes big matchups (Caps-Pens, opening night) get several hundred thousand viewers.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Oct 29, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m the same way. I never watch anything rangers or islanders related on MSG, and for the most part avoid NBC when they just do those redundant over-used match ups to not contribute to their ratings.

The only thing I’m afraid of is that by doing this they don’t see it as a discontent Devils fan who’d rather be watching the Devils, but rather as a lack of interest for hockey in the Northern NJ area, which would be hurting our own cause. I wish I knew more about how they read in to ratings.

by ChampaChamp on Oct 31, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

what's more infuriating

is when MSG is showing the Rangers broadcast of a Rangers-Islanders game, and MSG+ is showing the Islanders broadcast of a Rangers-Islanders game, while the Devils get bumped to the TV Guide channel or something dumb like that.

by KenKen on Nov 11, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I was in a bar in Jersey City the night that happened when we played the Preds this season. They couldn’t find the game. It was horrendous.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 11, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Please don’t compare anything about the NHL to the NFL. The NFL has the advantage of only having 16 games in a season and only having them on basically 2 days of the week. It has a gigantic audience that are seriously invested in every game because of A: the shortness of the NFL schedule B: Fantasy football and C: Betting pools. It also mandates that every team gets a ‘national’ game. The NFL can afford to do this because its audience is so huge that they actually are in danger of people getting tired of seeing certain teams on national games – that’s because people are actually watching them.

The NHL can’t afford to ‘grow’ the game, or it will find itself without a network. Coming out of the lockout, the NHL was shown on a cable channel that no one but fans of bowhunting and fishing shows had heard of, and a network that generously offered to show the games for free. It’s at the mercy of the networks. And the fact is that hockey is a regional sport. Ratings in markets of the team that are playing in a ‘national game’ are good, but take away the eyeballs watching in the two cities of the teams going head to head, and hockey’s ratings are abysmal. You wonder why the NHL isn’t serving caviar when they can barely afford the ramen noodles.

Also, to assert that these games aren’t good for the fan is ridiculous. Most of these big-market teams have excellent hockey teams. The Winter Classic has featured one team that didn’t make the playoffs (the 08-09 Buffalo Sabres). All of the teams you listed made the playoffs last year. How are games between those teams not supposed to be good?

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by Triumph44 on Oct 28, 2011 7:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for the response.

Obviously we disagree about all of these points, but I’m still shocked to hear you give the NHL so much credit on some of these issues. You’re also a little misinformed about a few things so I’ll try to clear them up.

  1. is just a difference of opinion. You say don’t compare the NFL to the NHL because one has wildly successful ratings and the other does not. I say go ahead and compare them for precisely that reason. You say the NFL has an “advantage” over having games nationally televised because they have fewer games in a season. I say that since the NHL has fewer teams and more than 5 times as many games, there’s absolutely no excuse to not have every team televised on NBC/Versus at least once.
  1. is filled with misinformation.
The NHL can’t afford to ‘grow’ the game, or it will find itself without a network.

You didn’t mention it but the NHL signed a $2 billion deal with NBC/Versus this year that will last for ten years. Both ESPN and Fox were also competing to receive the rights to broadcast the NHL. I supported sticking with NBC/Versus.

and a network that generously offered to show the games for free. It’s at the mercy of the networks.

I don’t know where you got this idea/information but I wish you wouldn’t have posted it here without doing research first. Under no circumstances is a television contract solely “at the mercy of the networks”. Since the lockout Versus has been paying the NHL $75 million a year. And I’m sorry if you feel that the NBC signed on to broadcast the NHL out of goodwill, but the truth is that they obviously got a lot out of it. The NHL was trying to expand and NBC saw an opportunity to broadcast a sport that would generate better ratings and advertising money than any other option they had planned.

Does it make sense to you, and can you think of any show in history that has ever had to pay the network to be on TV? TV stations pick and choose which shows (or sports leagues) are broadcast on their network by calculating their popularity and potential for advertisement placement. TV networks pay royalties for the programming and even music that is played on their stations based on this criteria. So to clear up this point, ESPN paid the NHL $120 to broadcast games from 1999-2004, that’s about $20million a year. After only one missed season because of the lockout, Versus signed a six year deal that gave the NHL $75million a year. That’s a raise of more than $50million per year even after the lockout. The NHL was still a proven commodity and the only reason NBC didn’t pay them even more during those years is because of a revenue sharing agreement they forged with the league instead. Now the league is getting $2billion for the next ten years, and the revenue sharing clause is gone. When the deal got signed in April here’s what Dick Ebersol, Chairman of NBC Sports had to say:

""Our run of not paying anything for a number of years is over with this deal. We are paying a substantial part, not the majority."

  1. Here’s what you have to say:
    Ratings in markets of the team that are playing in a ‘national game’ are good, but take away the eyeballs watching in the two cities of the teams going head to head, and hockey’s ratings are abysmal. You wonder why the NHL isn’t serving caviar when they can barely afford the ramen noodles.

And here’s what the statistics say as of 2011:

Overall NHL television ratings in the United States increased by 84 percent over the last four years

The NHL said it is on pace this season to set a record for total revenue, surpassing $2.9 billion overall.

Think about where we live and how lucky we are as hockey fans. If you’re like me when I’m at home in NJ, you get the channels for the Devils, Islanders, and Rangers. I also get Versus, NHL Network, and subscribe to GameCenter on NHL.com. How about a fan in Colorado, do you think they’re getting the feeds from 3 different local teams during the season? The reason I bring this up is from my own experiences. I recently graduated from college in Pennsylvania and I’m now going to graduate school in Boston. In PA, the entire school could only watch Penguins games. The Flyers played 3 hours away but were still blacked out. In Boston, we only get the Bruins. In both locations we were lucky enough to get Versus, and we would watch whatever hockey game was on that night. People want to watch hockey even if it isn’t their team. I don’t understand why you’d think otherwise. Just think about all the illegal streams that are out there. Versus should be broadcasting a game every night.

  1. Lastly, you kind of made up another point. I never asserted that the games between the chosen 7 teams weren’t good. I said that since the teams and match ups are picked during the summer before the season even starts, that the games
    "could very possibly be an average or below average game in quality

Pretend that before the season started, the league scheduled both Chicago at Philadelphia and Carolina at Tampa Bay for Sunday games on Jan. 22 at 1pm EST. Now fast forward to December and let’s pretend that Chicago and Philadelphia are both last place in their division, and Carolina/Tampa are doing great. The league has plenty of time to decide if they should switch the “Game of The Week” to the lesser market teams that are playing much better hockey. Do you think that they would do it?

Overall I’m sorry if I got defensive but I just felt kind of insulted because I spent a lot of time (messing around at work) doing research and trying to be accurate, and I thought you just countered it by making up some things based on what you thought was true.

I’ve read your comments on ILWT for long enough to know that I’ve agreed with you on a ton of things in the past. And since my original post here is just my opinion, I always try to always respect everyone else’s opinion too.

by NJallDay on Oct 28, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know where you got this idea/information but I wish you wouldn’t have posted it here without doing research first.

He’s correct. NHL and NBC had a revenue sharing agreement—no guaranteed cash, just NHL takes something like 75% or 80% of the revenue from the game.

I say go ahead and compare them for precisely that reason. You say the NFL has an "advantage" over having games nationally televised because they have fewer games in a season. I say that since the NHL has fewer teams and more than 5 times as many games, there’s absolutely no excuse to not have every team televised on NBC/Versus at least once.

I think you missed the point here: they’re different because NFL is guaranteed to draw a ton of eyes, no matter which teams are playing. MNF used to be a ritual until recently, not just “some game on TV” like hockey (and basketball, and baseball, for the most part, I’d say). “Some game on TV” isn’t guaranteed to get a lot of eyes. I guess you could make the counterargument that since there are so few viewers, NBC doesn’t lose much by throwing in another team there instead of one of the big seven on one night…I guess they’re just trying to maximize revenue and, long term, trying to grow interest in hockey via growing interest in some specific good teams.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Oct 29, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

He’s correct. NHL and NBC had a revenue sharing agreement—no guaranteed cash

I’m the one who mentioned the revenue sharing agreement. No guaranteed cash? Yes, OK. That’s also like being hired at a job and taking 100% of your salary in company stock. It’s not guaranteed cash because the market could crash to 0 tomorrow, but is that really going to happen? The NBC agreed to the revenue sharing agreement because they already knew from past ratings data that they were going to easily make more money off of NHL broadcast advertising than they were from any other programming they had lined up. It was a no brainer for the league who was already making $75million a year from Versus, which was more than 3x their previous record of biggest TV deal.

I guess they’re just trying to maximize revenue and, long term, trying to grow interest in hockey via growing interest in some specific good teams.

Finally, I wish people would stop giving the league credit for using “good teams” because it isn’t true at all. Go back and look at every NHL on NBC schedule since it started.

2005-2006: NHL on NBC features the New York Rangers who finished with 69 points, good for 25th in the entire league, during the previous season. They featured both Pittsburgh (for Crosby) and Boston. Both of these teams finished last in their division that year. Do you still think NBC is aiming towards quality games or just whatever is going to get the most viewers from that area?

2006-2007: Guess what, despite Pittsburgh finishing with 58 points last year, NBC gave them and Crosby 4 more games the following year. Against who? First Philadelphia, then Ovi led Washington who finished 27th in the whole league the previous year and this one. Then they were matched up against against Philly again, followed by Boston, who finished 26th in the league the previous year and then 23rd in this one. Philly was matched up against Pitt twice this year, and PHI was also matched for 2 more games. They finished last in the entire league this year.

2007-2008: Who do you think got featured again this year? After Boston had 2 miserable seasons in a row, NBC rewarded them by scheduling them in 4 games. Philly, the team who put up 56 points and finished last the previous year, was also scheduled for 4 games.

I’m not going to go on and on and on because you guys can do the research yourself and to me it’s painfully obvious: NBC is not trying to predict what games are going to be the best. Every year so far they have predominantly only broadcast teams from the best ratings markets, regardless of their skill. NBC trying to maximize revenue? Yes. Trying to grow interest in hockey? Nope

by NJallDay on Oct 29, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m the one who mentioned the revenue sharing agreement.

Was this really necessary? It’s not like I didn’t know about it before, and I’m sure Triumph knew about it.

No guaranteed cash? Yes, OK. That’s also like being hired at a job and taking 100% of your salary in company stock. It’s not guaranteed cash because the market could crash to 0 tomorrow, but is that really going to happen?

Coming out of the lockout, did anyone have a realistic guess at what interest in the NHL would look like over the course of the deal?

Also, I think NBC is much more responsible for the ratings and money it gets from NHL than an employee at a company. More like if you’re hired to the company board and get paid in company stock.

The NBC agreed to the revenue sharing agreement because they already knew from past ratings data that they were going to easily make more money off of NHL broadcast advertising than they were from any other programming they had lined up.

I see the deal as more low risk, high reward: NBC’s way out in case NHL fails miserably, and a huge win if the NHL is successful. As it is, they could probably put in some other failing show in that time slot instead, and go at some other point with a new show that won’t compete in the slightest with NFL.

Fair enough on the history, but what’s the incentive to change now with the new TV deal when NBC’s favorite teams are all playoff caliber and five are championship caliber?

NBC trying to maximize revenue? Yes. Trying to grow interest in hockey? Nope

I’ll mention again that there are two sides to this coin. You play the odds with quantity with maximizing revenue, since the most eyeballs, even they’re on average less interested, may lead to the most “interest” in the long run. You can play quality, higher average interest, but with fewer viewers. The former played heavily into their favor with revenue sharing, since six or seven years, or even ten, isn’t long enough to truly grow the sport and establish it at a grassroots level.

NBC’s strategy has worked so far, that’s undeniable. Why change it?

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Oct 29, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks, I think it’s pretty much that we agree to disagree. I mentioned that I already brought up the revenue sharing agreement because you mentioned it 1) as if I didn’t and 2) as if Triumph included it

Where you seem convinced is thinking that NBC did the NHL some huge favor by airing the games. It’s just not true, TV networks don’t stay in business by making decisions like that. The NHL was already proven in the many years before, having a one year lockout isn’t going to change much. This is evidenced by the NHL already receiving $75 million each year immediately following the lockout.

NBC’s strategy has worked so far, that’s undeniable. Why change it?

It’s undeniable that hockey has grow more popular so far. I can’t convince myself that continuing to show the same teams over and over again is helping grow the popularity of the NHL. Anyone can see why it’s more worthwhile to reach out to the fanbases of less popular teams than it is to continue showing teams that already have established fans. But as we know they won’t do this because it involves risk and NBC doesn’t yet care enough about growing hockey.

by NJallDay on Oct 29, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think NBC did the NHL a huge favor by airing games. Still, of the four major team sports, who has made a deal like that one in the last 25 years? None of them. Hockey is clearly fourth of the professional team sports, and a lot of people would rank hockey behind golf and auto racing and college football/basketball if we’re counting all sports.

Anyone can see why it’s more worthwhile to reach out to the fanbases of less popular teams than it is to continue showing teams that already have established fans

I can’t. I don’t think anyone besides diehard hockey fans care about this issue, and they’re probably going to watch the game anyway. Like I said, take away the cities of the two teams playing and see how many people are actually watching these games. It isn’t many. You think there’s an audience that A: knows there’s a game on every week B: checks on who is playing and then will or won’t watch based on who’s playing and that C: this scheduling legitimately affects whether or not ‘hockey is grown’. I don’t think that makes up a large segment of the potential audience, and I don’t think it makes a difference with ‘growing hockey’, which isn’t NBC’s responsibility anyway.

The NHL exists on network TV on a very thin margin.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Oct 29, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about a fan in Colorado, do you think they’re getting the feeds from 3 different local teams during the season?

As a fan from the Colorado market, I can assure you that the idea of having 3 different teams carried on local television is mind boggling. (You guys seriously have that? That’s so cool!) Altitude, a network owned by the same company that owns the Avs and the Pepsi Center, covers all of our games for the “local” market that spreads out across 9 states and almost 700,000 square miles (about 22% of the Continental US). So the games are available to a large number of people (approximately 16 million individuals based on the 2010 estimates), but Altitude is kinda like PBS – most people aren’t going to stop on it when they’re flipping through the channels. I doubt many non-Avs/Nuggets fans even know that it’s a sports network. Plus, I’d be willing to bet that many people in Northern Idaho don’t know that they’re within a local network for an NHL team since they’re 1000+ miles away from the “home” team.

Admittedly, the Avs suck at advertising outside of Denver. The Denver Post is the only print media source on the team, and even within the state of Colorado there’s minimal exposure. However, the Denver-area only accounts for 3 of that 16 million people, and through broadcasting, the NHL still has the opportunity to reach and make money off of the other 13. The only problem with that is the severe lack of broadcasting exposure to that general audience. The Avs only have 9 games on Versus this year, and only 1 on the NHL network, both of which are more specialty channels and only available in the higher-end (and more expensive) cable packages out here anyway. 0 of our games are going to be shown on NBC and in 18 years of living in Colorado, I don’t remember an ad for the Avs ever showing on that channel or any other major network. There is a huge potential market out West that the NHL is missing out on if they refuse to show these games on NBC or even advertise ticket sales. Now, I know the Avs had a lackluster performance last year to say the least, so I don’t really blame NBC for skipping over us this season. But when a really solid team like the Kings or the Sharks only get 1 game on NBC and the Rangers get at least 5, there’s some questions raised.

I like the Winter Classic. It is a bit gimmicky, but it does get NHL awareness out to the general public. And since it’s carried on really basic cable, it’s available to a lot of people. However, people are more likely to be engaged if there’s a team from fairly close to them playing in it. I don’t think the Average Joe in Washington State cares too much about whether a Philadelphia or a New York team wins. It’s still a long shot, but they might be a bit more likely to care if it was a California team squaring off against them.

Why not equal out the coverage a little more? Even if they kept their NBC schedule very centered around those 7 teams, why not show more teams from the West when they played them? And with the Winter Classic, they could still hold it in the East, but maybe include a Western Conference team to go with the Eastern one. If they’re worried about people showing up, they could include the Blackhawks or Red Wings. Bot of them are in the top 3 average attendance this year (much higher than the Flyers or the Rangers) and even though I can’t talk for every team out west, I can assure you that Wings and Hawks fans show up in droves when their team is at the more-distant-than-New-England Pepsi Center. Even though the NHL will never have the popularity of the NFL, if the league and NBC are serious about making more money, you’d think they would at least consider targeting more of the market out west.

Just a Colorado girl in Montana who <3s the Avs.
Varly: you're awesome. We love you. Please don't break.

by andidee15 on Oct 31, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I recently got Altitude on my cable package (in OKC) and I had no idea it was a sports network. Our “local” feed is Dallas games on Fox sports.

I miss living in Jersey and getting two network channels (the Phily and NY feeds) back before all the cable channels came out. So many options for all sports.

by NJHockey8 on Nov 1, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think the Average Joe in Washington State cares too much about whether a Philadelphia or a New York team wins.

As a former resident of Eastern Washington I can definitively say that you’re correct (for at least that part of the state and norther Idaho—Seattle isn’t a big hockey town, but if they were I imagine they’d pull for the Canucks or San Jose or be trying to get an NHL team to relocate there). Those that do care, care more for the Spokane Chiefs of the WHL than the NHL, and especially not for teams that play 2000+ miles away.

by elesias on Nov 1, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

In regards to the winter classic. I think there is one thing you have over looked. That is the location of the game.

So far in this order:

Buffalo
Chicago
Boston
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia -2012

So of course, Buffalo, Chicago, Boston and Pittsburgh will have gotten a game. Their opponents: Pittsburgh, Detroit, Philly and Washington. I don’t have a problem with these choices…Pittsburgh twice…fine. Sidney Crosby biggest star. I’m not going to gripe.

But this years line up doesn’t make sense to me. At least partially. While I agree with the Rangers being there. Despite being a Devils fan. They have the History, Big Market Team. It is realistic they get to play this year. But Philly? again? ….Now I understand the game is in Philly. That is no doubt the reason.

But why are they having it in Philly? Was that the only place they could secure a venue for the event? With all the arenas in the NY area I’m finding that hard to believe. It would have made more sense to me. For the NYR vs anyone else who hasn’t gotten a chance yet. Then NYR vs Philly.

If anything this would have been a perfect year to bring in a Canadian team. Biggest US Market. New York City. With the NY Rangers vs Montreal Canadians at Yankee Stadium. Something like this would have made much more sense.

Never the less. If I have the chance to watch it this year. I will. Its still fun. I don’t see any reason to boycott the event. This is only the 5th game. Four or five years from now if we are still seeing the same teams then something isn’t right. Then I might change my mind.

As far as the Sunday game of the week. Its the first year of a big deal. If the league and NBC want ratings. I can’t say I blame them. I’m really not concerned with what teams are playing. If it leads to more exposure, more ratings and bigger TV deals in the future. Great.

by NJDOhio on Oct 29, 2011 10:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Love the idea about NYR vs Montreal at Yankee Stadium even if it isn’t our Devs. But the reason they couldn’t have it there this year is because of “scheduling conflicts with the late December Pinstripe Bowl”

The new Giants/Jets stadium was also not available because the Giants play their last regular season game there against Dallas on New Years this year.

I am definitely keeping my fingers crossed for MetLife stadium to be used in the near future, but only if the Devils are involved :)

by NJallDay on Oct 29, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Devils will never be involved, The Canadians will never be involved. There are only 7 teams as far as NBC is concerned.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 1, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can't play a New Year's Day game at Yankee Stadium.

They have a college football bowl game there 2 days before and there wouldn’t be enough time to get the ice set up and stuff.

Go Cuse!

by nymetsfan1226 on Nov 6, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

The thing I hate is people would say the devils in a winter classic would be boring. The flyers Bruins winter classic had the be the most boring one yet, so giving them another one is pretty lame. Not to mention putting “bubble teams” in a winter classic would generate more fans of those teams. Most casual fans know what to expect out of the “original NBC six” and probably wouldn’t complain if a less marketed team was playing.

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Oct 29, 2011 1:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah I think its complete BS too. The Winter Classic is made into such a spectacle that everyone there is riled up. Players that don’t normally make that big hit or go for that extra play are going to do it just because of the rarity of the opportunity and the national scale it is being televised on.

Nashville and New Jersey or boring? I think it’d make for a great Winter Classic.

by NJallDay on Oct 30, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah I’ve been thinking NJ, vs Dallas in the new cowboys stadium would be nuts

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Oct 30, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

You want to put an ice rink in Dallas?

As much as hardcore fans like the idea, nobody is going to watcha Nashville vs NJ game. For one they have small fan bases, and neither really has any attention grabbing stars outside of Maybe Kovalchuck.

Are Shea Weber and Zach Parise elite players? Yes, without hesitation. Go to any city not in NJ or Nashville and see how many people have any idea who that is.

I personally think this years games should have been LAK @ NY or Dallas @ Minny. Obviously NY had scheduling conflicts, but getting an LA market involved when the Lakers are locked out should have been a priority.

Like it or not reputation matters. Are the Flyers a goon squad? No, our best player speaks French and our 2nd best forward used to be referred to as she by our fanbase. But people who aren’t hardcore fans don’t know that. So they’ll tune in. And fair or not, NJ is known as the boring team that runs the trap. Is it true? Not really, they aren’t the same team that would hold teams to 3 goals over a 10 game stretch in the early 2000s but they also aren’t exactly an explosive team.

I do agree more teams need to get involved. Avs/Red Wings should be a game, a NY/NY game would be good when the Isles redeem themselves, and obviously there has to be a way to get Canadian teams involved even though NBC will hate that. Whether that means a heritage classic every year or sending American teams north I have no idea.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 31, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

NY doesn’t have a venue for the Winter Classic; there won’t be a Winter Classic in NY for some time. Yankee Stadium hosts the Pinstripe Bowl, and Metlife Stadium has two NFL teams.

And obviously Canadian teams won’t be involved in the Winter Classic.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Nov 1, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Citi Field is the one and only venue.

Yet a few things to consider. The Pinstripe Bowl may not last as long as it is scheduled to. The Big East is dying. Metlife Stadium could hold one if both the Jets and Giants are away for a couple weeks (which isn’t impossible). Bye weeks and Sunday/Monday games on the same weekend could easily open that stadium for time to get the ice surface ready.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Nov 1, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a Devil/Yankee fan, the thought of the Rangers playing a home game in Yankee Stadium is a bit nauseating, but it makes a lot more sense than them playing a home game in MetLife Stadium, 10 minutes from our arena.

I guess we all get a little too wrapped up in this stuff though. I’m happy to watch 41 games at the Rock.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 1, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

an NY/NY game? Is that because the Islanders have been so relevant in the past 2 decades? They don’t even have a definite place to play indoors.

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Nov 1, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it is because with their young core they could be good in a few years. They suck less than they used too, and really before Ovechkin showed up Washington had one year where it was a contender. Now look at them. The Blackhawks were irrelevant for how long? Are they not marketable now? The Pens almost moved and now they are Gary’s darlings. Things change when you hit on a few high picks.

Fact is a decent team in the NY market is always going to be able to market it’s young players. Even if it is the Islanders playing in the Mausoleum.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 1, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

weak

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Oct 30, 2011 11:36 AM EDT reply actions  

The only way the NBC7 will die is if a bunch of the teams become terrible for a sustained period of time.

If the Rangers and Hawks had another long playoff drought and Crosby signed with the Leafs someday, it would change.

Unfortunately its not going to happen.

Washington and Pitt are only among the 7 because of Ovechkin and Crosby. If Crosby was a Blue Jacket, they would be one of the 7.

The Winter Classic will be in one of those 7 cities between 2 of those 7 teams for years to come. The only reason Buffalo ever got to be in it was because it was the 1st one and they didn’t know how big of a deal it was yet.

Get ready for Pens@Caps in FedEx Field next season. And that will give them a whole year to figure out where to put Wings@Rangers. I’ll flip out if its at Met Life Stadium.

The only game I care about on Jan 2nd is Devils@Sens. I hate NBC. I hate Versus. Cangelosi is my announcer now, at least for the road games.

See you in Newark.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 1, 2011 10:42 AM EDT reply actions  

The Buffalo game was in Buffalo. Think that had something to do with it.

by NJDOhio on Nov 1, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

When did I say it wasn’t in Buffalo? It will never be in Buffalo again though.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 1, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shakes Head…Nevermind

It will never be in Buffalo again? ….Because they have so many other place to choose from? Or some other reason. How do you know that?

by NJDOhio on Nov 1, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know. And I hope I’m wrong. But the trend is pretty clear……which was the point of the post as far I read it.

They have 7 places to choose from: NYC, Philly, Pitt, DC, Boston, Chicago, Detroit.

All NBC cares about is ratings, and they think the only way to get ratings is with the 7 chosen teams/cities.

Furthermore, all CBC cares about are the 7 teams that play in Canada.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 1, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d love to see Wings@Jackets in the Horseshoe by the way.

There was once a rumor of a doubleheader at MetLife Stadium:

Islanders v Rangers
Flyers v Devils.

That I would be on board with.

Probably never gonna happen.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 1, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reasoning I think behind Buffalo was their front office came up with the Winter Classic idea.

Buffalo, I’m fairly sure, destroys every other market in the US in terms of local ratings for the local team. Better than Washington, Detroit, Pittsburgh, or Chicago. Only problem is a lot of that attention probably comes from Canada…

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Nov 2, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Local ratings are meaningless to NBC and Versus.

Do people all over the country tune in to watch Sabres games? Nope. They tune in to watch Crosby and Ovechkin, at least that’s what Bob Costas thinks.

I tune in to watch all the hockey I can. I’d watch AHL games on NBC if they put them on.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 3, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

As mentioned elsewhere, a significant portion of national ratings still come from local.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Nov 6, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

The game we lost to the Pens last Saturday made it clear that the refs only care about the NBC7 too.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 1, 2011 10:46 AM EDT reply actions  

Sure they do.

You been here, you are currently here, and soon you’ll probably be here, here and here.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 1, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

We didn’t get a power play until the 3rd period.

They scored their 1st goal on a PP where Clarkson got called for a high stick even though the replay showed Fleurys stick in Clarksons face.

Deny that.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 1, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

The high-sticking call was, I thought, ticky-tacky as the defender lifted Clarkson’s stick into Fleury’s face… but a high-stick is a high-stick. The more egregious one was Kunitz putting Parise into a figure-four leg-lock and Parise getting the penalty.

by elesias on Nov 1, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good call by you Elesias. Bad call by Bettman’s Refs.

Pens outplayed us that night, but the zebras didn’t help our cause.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 1, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you ever think that the refs in the NHL just aren’t very good? Please stop with this conspiracy nonsense, I’ve heard every reason in the book from paranoid Flyers fans over the years and any justification you give is irrational whining.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 1, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don’t actually believe in any conspiracy Ed. It does seem like the refs are in the Pens and the Caps corner, but I’m sure its because I’m looking at the game solely from a Devs fans perspective.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Nov 1, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Pens and Caps are two of the most penalized teams in the league (Pittsburgh led the league last season), and the Caps are close to bottom-5 in drawing penalties (I’m going off ~3 years here).

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Nov 2, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

i am huge transplanted devils fan but i dont post much

but the east coast bias in the NHL is downright disgusting. they are ratings wh*res and its a slap in the face of up-and-coming small market teams who could use the limelight occasionally. For example last year in the playoffs not one game of the Predators/Ducks series was nationally televised on Versus or NBC despite Corey Perry, Bobby Ryan, Pekka Rinne’s ascension to the elite ranks of goaltenders

they act like the original six are the only teams with fans. like you said, lucky for pittsburgh, washington, new york, boston, chicago, philadelphia and detroit as they seem to be the only reason the NHL is afloat. and why must they always start at 1 pm eastern? it basically eliminates 1/2 the western conference. and versus: they have the opportunity to showcase “good” matchups versus the “popular” matchup. how many people actually have versus? i think they can get away showing a canucks/sharks or lightning/leafs game here and there.

how many hart trophy winners have gone completely unexposed the last 3-4 years? and i cheer for the nets and even ESPN put them on against the Knicks and hey it was a damn good game with deron williams and carmelo battling. I even got to watch my white sox get crushed by the yankees on ESPN among some other televised games they had. how many years must the nhl slurp the casual bandwagoners without giving the hardcore/purists at least 10% of the versus/NBC schedule?

does anyone know if NHL still has games on Versus? sadly that was a great yet only way i could watch teams outside “the nbc market” legally

The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists

R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"

by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 5, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions  

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