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2000 Stanley Cup Finals - Game 6 On MSG + (Open Thread)

2000 Stanley Cup Finals - Game 6 On MSG + (Open Thread)

Last Night of the Scott Niedermayer's Greatest Games on MSG Networks. Friday - his #27 will rise to the rafters next to #4 and #3 at the Rock.

5 months ago Marty_sbetter_tiny Matthew Ventolo 169 comments 0 recs  | 

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I thought this could be fun if a few are watching. Truly one of the best hockey games in the last 20 or so years.

Brodeur vs. Belfour

Thread will go away after the game.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:10 PM EST reply actions  

Awesome idea. Just got home and when I saw this I threw the game on.

by NJallDay on Dec 14, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Lemieux with a great shot and Pandolfo’s rebound goes wide…ugh!

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:14 PM EST reply actions  

gotta bury those chances, never gonna win a championship if we aren't opportunistic

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Hahah. This MSG feed is awful tonight

by NJallDay on Dec 14, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

And SyKora is down…..I always forgot it’s this early in the game (8 left in 1st)

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:16 PM EST reply actions  

how that wasnt called for a blatant elbow still baffles me to this day

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I know. People say Stevens’ hit would be suspendable (okay some – yes) but he used the body so well.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

The people who say that about scotty probably never actually saw him hit anyone and just figured if someone was hurt he was being dirty.

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Well today, any hit that ends up with the body coming in contact with the head will get you the dreaded Shanaban. But you know what? His hits were almost invariably clean, absolutely perfect hits. Just look at his top 10:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7jUbKQYdw

Every single one of them he keeps his elbows in and simply drives through with his shoulder. The only problem (for the opposing players) was that his should was like a brick wall moving at 30 mph. So clean, so perfect, and the deadliest in history.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Also he was third player who was injured where the game had to be stopped. Sydor blocked a shot. Arnott stick lifted Nieuwendyk.

Hatcher is a bum

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I always got chills watching Sydor after he got hurt blocking that shot. That’s a piece of video I’d play for anyone who doesn’t believe how badly hockey players “want it” when they get close to a Stanley Cup. After all, the guy was seriously injured and still worked himself into a position to positively impact the play instead of curling up in the fetal position and waiting for a whistle.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The fact that Hatcher’s elbow was not called a penalty requires a psych evaluation for the referees involved.

10 years ago that was clearly a penalty, if not a game-misconduct.

Today, that hit would have suspended him for the rest of the playoffs, and probably for 10 regular season games.

by DiffuseTheBob on Dec 15, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

WHERE ARE KOVY AND ZACH

And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?

by KovyisLove on Dec 14, 2011 8:20 PM EST reply actions  

typical kovy man, always no where to be found in big games!

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Who needs them!

Elias, Gomez, Arnott, Holik were the stars at forward.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

hey now, dont undersell Mogilny

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

True – Though he had a much better season in 2000-2001.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn Kovy, he's invisible this game!!!!

But at least Larsson hasn’t made a turnover yet!

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep, and Tedenby stapled to the bench as usual

by NJallDay on Dec 14, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

This PK looks familiar

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:26 PM EST reply actions  

The goaltender, doesn’t however :(

And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?

by KovyisLove on Dec 14, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Very true. His mobility was just crazy.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

The third defenseman. He probably cleared the zone more often than all the other defensemen combined in a given game. ’

A lot of people don’t realize that the trap would have simply been an above average defensive system without Brodeur because with Brodeur in net (and without a trapezoid), the team couldn’t dump it in. Not only would Brodeur just fling it back out; he would often pass it all the way up ice and create a rush.

So the opposing team’s only option was to try and skate into the zone, thus playing right into the trap — literally trying to tip toe through a literal trap. Like trying to get across a room where the floor is made of mousetraps with only one inch between each of them.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I amend my statement. With the defensemen we had, the trap still would have been awesome. It was just even better with Marty’s skills.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

And that was meant to be a Gomez-is-awful joke not a jab at Clarkson

by NJallDay on Dec 14, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

God damn

This game angers me as i watch the D-core we had. God damn we were spoiled.

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:29 PM EST reply actions  

Gomez only has 16:48 TOI? Really?

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

he was a rookie and a lazy defender. would you have wanted that defensive liability out there in such an important game?

thank god he outgrew that

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry I know you didn’t see my post just below yet, but as you noted Patty only had 27:45 in a game that had two overtimes which, in the playoffs, are 20 minutes each. Today, he would have significantly more minutes than 27:45 just after the first OT.

The numbers for him and Gomez reflect the depth we had.

There was ONE PLAYER WITH LESS THAN 16:48, and it was because he got injured!

Do you know how absolutely insanely amazing that is?!?!?!?

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean I just can’t get over that. I’m sorry but I really can’t.

Also should note that, in a game with two playoff OTs, only two players on the whole team had over 30 minutes: Stevens and Niedermayer.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s nice to have a deep team.

It’s nice to have an actual 4th line.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I know. I actually forgot teams even had them until I started watching this.

4th line? What’s that?

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

by 4th line you mean goons right? goons?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

They were so special….

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

If and when they are fully healthy and if/when the defense picks it up. They could be very good.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I just hope one day Merrill and Larsson are the top D pair in the league

i know, i know…ill keep dreaming.

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

He was a rookie…

And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?

by KovyisLove on Dec 14, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

its amazing the game went into 2 OTs and the forward with the most time was Patty with 27:45

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Which isn’t even that much for a game with two OTs which, remember, were 20 minutes each!

What that and Gomez’s TOI really demonstrate is just how deep our team was.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

forgot that there was no trapezoid at that time

by piscataway_devil on Dec 14, 2011 8:34 PM EST reply actions  

And both goalies pass it to one another in the corner – haha

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m watching the 2000 ECF game 6 against the flyers, that was a series. ( an actual rivalry deserving of a classic)

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Dec 14, 2011 8:37 PM EST reply actions  

SCOOOOOOORRRREEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scottttttyyy!!!!!!!!

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:38 PM EST reply actions  

i almost posted the Kool-aid man when neids scored….almost

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:40 PM EST reply actions  

Marty should have has that.

And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?

by KovyisLove on Dec 14, 2011 8:42 PM EST reply actions  

Well Kovy shouldn’t have turned it over in the first place!

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn, mogilny was sick sick sick

And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?

by KovyisLove on Dec 14, 2011 8:44 PM EST reply actions  

he was even better the next year.

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

43-40-83 in 00-01

in 99-00 he was only 24-20-44

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

IIRC, elias also had 40 or more goals that year…..would be nice nowadays to have 2 40 goal scorers.

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Now Devils are on pace to have 5 – 25 goal scorers.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Which doesn’t really mean much when you’re still 26th in the league in GF.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Which we would be so insanely lucky to have for his price today…unfortunately

5,200,000

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Nobody beats the WIZ

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Dec 14, 2011 8:46 PM EST reply actions  

I like Marty’s old pads from back then better. Very cool.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:47 PM EST reply actions  

Wow Marty…just…wow

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:48 PM EST reply actions  

I feel fans were better then too.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:52 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, its like" where did everybody go?"

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Dec 14, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

the lockout killed hockey

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

actually, i take that sarcasm back

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Well it’s not like they sold out many regular season games then either.

Or do you just mean that the fans were better hockey fans, and where did those types go?

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

the lockout hurt our team a lot

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Dec 14, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know. I don’t think it was the lockout. I think our team was aging and, once it did, we never built a core again that was anywhere close to as good as the one we had before.

I don’t think it was the lockout at all.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

AND remember this was before the salary cap too. You would think that the Devils, who were traditionally small spenders, would have benefitted greatly from the cap, as teams like the Wings, Rangers, and others were forced to drastically reduce their budgets.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

the team is starting to form a core though now.

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Dec 14, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s hard to build that type of core.

You need early picks – hidden gems in middle to late picks. Solid role playing free agent signings. Trades you win. And a few hall of famers

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

nowadays in order to built that core you either need to be really lucky drafting wise, suck for years, or be an attractive FA location where you can plug holes in your lineup at will.

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

or in the case of the islanders, never

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

That being said – whatever Marty does next season. If they sign all the young guys and get a solid goalie. Next year should be fun.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

The one great thing about being mediocre: it’s awfully fun when you finally step it up again.

It’s kind of like getting food poisoning for two days and then, suddenly, you sit down at the toilet and you no longer have explosive diarrhea.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

And then have Filet Mignon that night?

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Or some Dungeon-us Crab.

Get it? Because we’re in a dungeon?

Just kidding, it’s crab rangoon.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Really? Because we didn’t have top picks for over a decade and continued to build a great core.

Gionta — 27th overall

Gomez — 20th overall

Brodeur — 20th overall

Stevens — trade (well, reimbursement after arbitration)

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

theres still some hardcore luck involved in those drafts. i mean other teams had chances to snag those guys first and did not value them the same way over X amount of bums who went before them.

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah but between Brodeur, Gionta, Gomez, Elias, Sykora, and…well, I’m not going to try and think of the rest of the list now, but I’m sure there are more…

With all of them, that can’t be luck. That’s just damn good drafting sense.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Good drafting sense, of course. I completely agree with you there.

However, when drafting later in a round, there are so many outside forces (other teams, lack of a clear cut pick) that contribute to the situation.

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s true, but there are always always guys that fall to later teams. They’re available in every single draft. The guys who nobody think has any potential — except for one smart GM — but they do. And the one smart GM knows it. Getting as many incredible players as late round picks as we did back then was no fluke. It can’t be.

I’m sorry to say that we haven’t had that drafting intelligence for awhile.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we’re actually in agreement over the basic idea here.

I was just pointing out it might be a lil easier to build an awesome core if you pick in the top 5 a few years in a row. Build a core of those Super Stars that make the world go round. (Disclaimer: this does not work for the Columbus Blue Jackets or the New York Islanders)

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Nieds #3

Rolston #11 (got Lemieux for him)

Sykora 18th

Guerin #5 (got Arnott)

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

Because that was actually part of my point: after Niedermayer, they buiolt their core with later picks, so you don’t need early ones to do it. Just need smart trades and picks.

Niedermayer was 1992 and Guerin 1989, well before the super-core.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

These were the early picks that helped build this team. They did it with late picks as well.

What I was saying more or less was everything a GM (Lou) does to build a team has to work out for a team to be successful.

Without those picks in 92 or 89 (I mean hell – 8th round pick Jim Dowd scored a GWG in the 1995 SCF), the team is built a different way

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree. The only one that would have made a really huge difference was Nieds, and considering the rest of the players, I’m sure we still could have won some cups without him. We were still stacked with several other best in the league players.

Guerin, meanwhile, had 25 points in our first cup year, and 3 goals in the playoffs. After that, he had two very good seasons (one of which we didn’t even get into the playoffs) and then got 10 points in 97-98 for us before going to the Oilers.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh but obviously I agree with the statement that “everything a GM (Lou) does to build a team has to work out for a team to be successful.” Obviously the trades and free agent signings were/are all key too..

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I see where you are going. My original post said early, middle, and late picks. All the picks need to work. It’s not just early picks and a team doesn’t need a ton of them either – but they sure helped and ultimately got the Devils a couple of great players. Up top you said good drafting sense and I 100% agree and that’s for every single pick whether it’s 3rd overall or 149th.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s one of the reasons I’ve lost a good deal of trust in Lou. I haven’t seen that magic on a consistent basis for far too long. Not to mention the magic on free agents…oh man, that’s more like GOB Bluth illusions. Same with more of our trades now…

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Hate to be Mr. Nitpicky

Your numbers are wrong:

Gionta was 82nd overall (third round)
Gomez was 27th overall (trade from Dallas, 2 2nd-round picks for #27)

And Brodeur followed a trade down from #11, when Calgary moved up to take a different goalie.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

No that’s not being nitpicky. I like knowing when I’m wrong. Plus, Gionta just proves my point further.

And I know we ended up with the 20th so Calgary could make sure they got…..hahahahahahahha Trevor Kidd!

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Gionta does prove the point very well, that Lou was capable of unearthing some very good players in the later rounds. I even recall writing an article about the best draft picks in Devils’ history somewhere along the line.

Your general point about building a great team and core without having a bunch of elite draft picks is quite valid. I just feel bad about having to correct numbers when they don’t impact the overall thrust of the argument — it works even with your numbers.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

What made the Devils’ core truly elite were Stevens and Niedermayer – it took Shanahan, a 2nd overall pick, to get Shanahan, and Niedermayer was a 3rd overall pick. I’m not saying that it can’t be done – the Red Wings have done it – but you really have to hit big on low round draft picks.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Dec 14, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

that should read it took Shanahan to get Stevens – sigh

and even with the Wings’ dominance, they may be in for a run of mediocrity when Lidstrom retires.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Dec 14, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes it did take Shanahan to get Stevens. My point is that you don’t need high first round draft picks to build a great core. The only one that would have been missing was Niedermayer.

You can argue that Stevens would have been missing without Shanahan, but that’s hypothetical and I believe we would have found a way to get him anyway. Consider the fact that we didn’t actually trade for him; we got him through the crazy arbitration process they had back then.

How we got Stevens really is a crazy, crazy story.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt St. Louis gives up Scott Stevens through anything other than that arbitration decision. Consider: they gave up 5 1st-round picks as compensation to sign him as a free agent the year before.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh they didn’t “give him up” at all (but I think that’s what you’re getting at).

It’s just crazy how we ended up with him.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

He would’ve never ended up in NJ if the Blues don’t sign Shanahan. Never. The Blues did not want to trade him, and Stevens did not want to be in NJ, initially did not report to camp, and then he signed with the Blues again after the 1994 season.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Dec 14, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

And Niedermayer is seen as a bigger villain than Stevens. Go figure.

by DiffuseTheBob on Dec 14, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve been following the thread a bit and just was able to tune in.

Thanks to Matt for posting this, otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to watch.

by NJGuy on Dec 14, 2011 9:04 PM EST reply actions  

Almost OT!

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:15 PM EST reply actions  

The good thing is wqe stunk for one year, and got a supposed stud on D for the next 8 years at minimum. Got lots of D prospects, have two superstars including one star who may fade soon (Elias), and a lot of nice complementary players. Fixes- Horrid fourth line, Defense as a team, goaltending, then we can be great.

And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?

by KovyisLove on Dec 14, 2011 9:18 PM EST reply actions  

So guys, let's be honest

I know it will soon be Niedermayer night, but Stevens was the best…in history. He had WAY more points every season when both were on the Devils, and he’s 11th all time on the defenseman scoring list (a fact which just about everyone but die-hard Devils fans forget). And he was the best defensive defenseman in the world.

It’s amazing. Defensemen who excel to that level usually only do it on one side of the puck. They’re either an amazing defensive defenseman or an offensive defenseman, but not both. Stevens was one of the greatest ever on offense, and perhaps THE greatest ever on defense.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:29 PM EST reply actions  

Um.... no (more corrections)

The last time Scott Stevens had more points in a season than Scott Niedermayer was 1995-1996. This even includes the high-scoring 2000-2001 season when Niedermayer (and Jason Arnott) held out for a good chunk of the season and missed roughly 30 games as a result.

As an offensive player, Stevens peaked in 1993-1994…. and was robbed of the Norris Trophy when awards were handed out. After that, he deferred a great deal to become the defensive foundation of the franchise on the blueline — you might even try and draw a parallel to how Bobby Carpenter transformed from a 50-goal scorer to an elite defensive forward.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

That should be 1994-1995, not 1995-1996.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I’m sorry his career was so long I started looking at his earlier stats. But they were close to Nieds most years, and he was still significantly better defensively (which is saying a lot).

Would you rreally have taken Nieds over Stevens?

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s like asking me if I’d rather shack up with a Victoria’s Secret model or a Playboy Playmate — it’s hard to go wrong either way, and both are excellent choices. (Apologies for the overheated hyperbole, folks.)

If you’re putting a gun to my head and demanding I choose one right now, I probably take Scott Stevens because of his defensive game and his physicality. But I certainly think about Nieds considering everything he brought to the table and thinking about what his numbers might have been like in a less buttoned-down system.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Kovy would think that’s impossible

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Playing nine years with the Atlanta Thrashers makes that an impossible hill to climb.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Larry Robinson, Chris Pronger, Nicklas Lidstrom, and Al MacInnis want to disagree with you.

I’m not convinced that Stevens was an elite offensive defenseman. He was very good, but his offensive numbers are only huge during the go go 80s. I wish we had ice time from back then – if Stevens was playing tons of minutes, it’s only fitting that his numbers are that big.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Dec 14, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s probably hard to deem Stevens an “elite” offensive defenseman considering some of his contemporaries. He’s absolutely upper tier, however…. and his name is still all over the Devils’ record book for offensive prowess — he dominates a number of categories where only defensemen are considered, and he still holds the franchise single-season record for assists.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Stevens had 59 points, 57, and 78 in his first three Devils seasons, respectively. After that, he was between 21 and 32 through 00-01, three seasons before he retired.

How about the +/-? Lidstrom is the only one among those you mentioned who had a higher career +/-

You really can’t argue with 11th all time. Maybe he’s not one of the greatest offensive players ever, but he’s elite.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait and Robinson

But he was from a completely different era than all the others.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

57 points for a defenseman would really not have been that many for a guy playing 27-28 minutes in 1992-93.

I agree that Stevens might be the greatest defensive D of all time. I think when we’re talking about the BEST defensemen to play the game, Stevens is only an average offensive D in that regard.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Dec 14, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Can I ask where you’re getting TOI stats for Macinnis and Robinson (and Stevens) from back then?

Also, +377. Can’t argue with that. To achieve that, you have to make goals happen, whether you put them in or get an assist, or you don’t.

And, if you look at his record, he built up his plus minus over the years when his production waned, not when it was amazing.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

And that’s a serious question. I really want to know.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh I used hockey reference! Turns out Macinnis and Pronger had the comparable or better ATOI

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not, I’m guessing, based on what we know about the game. Ice time is generally decreasing. Pronger played 30 minutes a game in 97. No one plays 30 minutes a game now. I wish I had that data, but I don’t think anyone does. I bet MacInnis played that kind of ice time too.

I know that Stevens was an excellent offensive D man. I am saying that AMONG the excellent D men, the legends, Stevens was probably the worst offensively, but probably the best defensively.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Dec 14, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Ohhhh I get it now. I misinterpreted your statement. He could still be cosnsidered among the best offensively, but among the top defensemen of all time, his offense was average.

That’s pretty tough company though :)

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s coming….

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:35 PM EST reply actions  

how far into 2OT did it happen?
I need to know so that I can do my homework while watching…

by NJGuy on Dec 14, 2011 9:37 PM EST reply actions  

I have a final tomorrow – I’m taking a 2 hr break

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I have finals next week.

by NJGuy on Dec 14, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

This “show” ends in 20 minutes, so you know it has to happen before then.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

some answer…
thanks though, just that I’m sharing the tv, so I’m trying to pinpoint when the goal happens.

by NJGuy on Dec 14, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

The goal happened somewhere between the 8 minute and 12 minute mark, IIRC. If I were upstairs and had my 2000-2001 media guide in front of me, the cover picture is the scoreboard in Dallas complete with Time Remaining.

My guess is that it’s shortly after this commercial break.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Marty’s TOI was 88:20

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

What final?

I just took my Corporate Law final today.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

That sounds horrible. No offense.

Survey Engineering (you probably feel the same way)

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

It is horrible. And yes, that sounds horrible too. Good luck!

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

good luck to the two of you.

Anything less than an A and you’re out of the family.

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, looks like I’m gone.

Whatever, mom! I never wanted to be a part of your family anyway! I’m going to my room!

+ slams door, sobs +

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Chills. Every. Time

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:47 PM EST reply actions  

Considering how much airtime and color commentator verbiage they spent on Melanie Brodeur…. I think I know what this franchise’s current problem is: we don’t have the “hot wife/girlfriend” at the moment.

Someone find a Russian supermodel (or tennis player) for Kovalchuk, stat!

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:47 PM EST reply actions  

Parise is engaged. She’s probably smokin’

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

isnt she a teacher?

Zach’s hot for teacher

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe she just needed to give him an Eruption before each game to get him going.

(yay! Van Halen puns!)

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

She’s definitely not unattractive.

by elesias on Dec 15, 2011 7:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Mike Modano was always such a class act.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:50 PM EST reply actions  

bettmen seems upset we won

by piscataway_devil on Dec 14, 2011 9:53 PM EST reply actions  

he still doesn’t sleep well at night.

by OnessMaximus on Dec 14, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s just because when he lies in his bed it makes him feel like a small dog.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Love they are showing the celebration

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Matthew Ventolo on Dec 14, 2011 9:56 PM EST reply actions  

lol 10 years later and they haven’t cleaned up the audio.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Dec 14, 2011 9:57 PM EST reply actions  

Some things don’t need to be visually or audibly perfect. Living the moment over as close to the original as possible is perfect enough.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

no i meant they left a clear f-bomb in

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Dec 14, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

The things I miss when I’m not paying full attention….

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh I figured that was intentional. They weren’t going to ruin the greatest moment in franchise history with a bleep. It’s like editing The Godfather.

Which they actually do when, say, AMC has their annual thanksgiving marathon.

You don’t mess with masterpieces.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The moment I started to despise Bettman

was when he uttered “The Conn Smythe trophy is awarded by the Professional Hockey Writers Association for the MVP for the 4 ROUNDS OF THE PLAYOFFS (with a hand jesture)”

that just absolutely sealed JSG getting the award. Even though it wasn’t his call, he felt like he had to prove to the crowd it was the right choice.

by SantonioBurress on Dec 14, 2011 9:59 PM EST reply actions  

DARN IT!!! I wish i had known about this sooner….I only got to see the cup presentation…basically the last 5 mintues :(

by tiggysiggy on Dec 14, 2011 10:05 PM EST reply actions  

It’s on again at 2:00 AM

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

MSG+ (and MSG+2) are re-playing it from midnight until 2 AM.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Whoops. Don't listen to me. It ends at 2:00 AM

Man, you’ve really got my number tonight, acasser :)

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

We all have off days.

by acasser on Dec 14, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

So, anyway, let’s all wish Marty a happy 48th birthday!

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

truly inspiration stuff. Deboer should force the team to watch that game at least once a week – again and again, the whole season. definetly going to make a difference.

by piscataway_devil on Dec 14, 2011 10:08 PM EST reply actions  

Or just have Stevens come out of retirement for one year. You just dress him as the 7th defenseman, slap the C on him, play him for one minute a game, and have him rip the hell out of the guys in the locker room when they don’t go 110%.

by Dr. Witticism on Dec 14, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I turned on MSG + after seeing this thread and instead of game 6 NJ vs the Stars the broadcast they’re showing contains Snooki, Boomer, and Carton.

by DiffuseTheBob on Dec 14, 2011 10:47 PM EST reply actions  

Thoughts on the Game...

After watching this game again(it has been at least 5 years since I last saw it) several things standout.

1. The current most talented player still in the NHL today that participated in that game is Patrik Elias and it speaks volumes about how special this guy truly is as a player. He was one of the three best offensive players on the ice that series, and will garner serious consideration for the Hall of Fame when he retires.

2. The amount of Hall of Famers on both teams is staggering. Brodeur, Hull, Modano, Belfour, Nieuwendyk, Stevens, Niedermayer, Mogilny are either in or guaranteed. Hell, a few other guys on the fringe in Arnott, Elias, Derian Hatcher, Sergei Zubov, Brian Rafalski(who ranks 32nd all time in defenseman PPG, and 27th all time in +/-), and yes even Claude Lemieux made up the teams. These teams were loaded.

3. With the salary cap now in place, we may never see a team as talented as the Devils again from top to bottom. The only forward not to score a goal for the Devils throughout the playoffs was Jay Pandolfo. Not one player on that team was a minimum salary player in today’s salary cap world. Can you imagine Cam Janssen, Eric Boulton, or Tim Sestito producing for us in the playoffs? Yeah, neither can I.

4. The clutching and grabbing in game 6 makes me wonder how any player could put up 100 points in a season during that time-period. I saw sticks literally taken away from players with nothing called. Dan-o literally body-slammed Grant Marshall and got away with it. Hatcher nearly decapitated Sykora with an elbow and did not get a penalty. Claude Lemieux cross-checked Brendan Morrow twice in the back while shoving his head into the boards, and nothing was called. Brett Hull hooked Gomez so blatantly that it was astonishing that he could get rid of the puck at all, and it was described by Gary Thorne as a “tie-up.” Granted, it was game 6 of the Stanley Cup finals, but the rest of the playoffs were not much different in 2000.

5. As great as Scott Stevens was, he had two critical turnovers that could have led to goals in the 3rd period of game 6. The following season he played mediocre in game 7 versus Colorado, and contributed negatively to that loss. Scott Niedermayer on the other hand scored a massive short-handed goal in game 6, played a ton of minutes, and played on a worse pairing. The fact that Niedermayer is not revered in the same way Stevens is makes me question if the fans ever truly appreciated Niedermayer. I guess we’ll find out Friday night.

6. Martin Brodeur’s rebound control was flawless during game 6, and is a major reason he may never get the credit he fully deserves from his critics for his role in the 3 Devil Stanley Cup Championships. It had been years since I saw him play without the trapezoid and it reminded me why they eliminated it in the first place. The Niedermayer short-handed goal is directly caused by Brodeur skating behind the net and firing the puck perfectly around the boards, high off the glass. It allows Lemieux to knock over Cote leading to the break.

Speaking of which, if the trapezoid were eliminated tomorrow, Hedberg should consider retiring.

by DiffuseTheBob on Dec 15, 2011 2:52 AM EST reply actions  

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