When is he going to call him up ?

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 21, 2011 11:01 PM EST

Another game-day in the AHL another win for Albany, 3-0 against Binghamton and another you know what ? Yeah, Another good game for Vladimir Zharkov: 3 points night, 1G / 2A +/- +3

Zharkov has scored 6 points in his last 5 games, 14 points in 20 games and +/- +1 overall.

As a comparison Steve Zalewski leads Albany with 17 points... In 30 games. At this pace, Zharkov could be leading the team in total points scored by the end of next week. I'm serious.

So, in my opinion, it's getting obvious that Vlad, at 23, still gets room for improvement. With 14 points scored in 20 AHL games and a pretty responsible defensive level, he could be helpful on the Devils 4th line. But Mister Deboer is still riding the Apocalypse line. Depressing.

To tell the truth, I like what Pete Deboer is doing with the Devils so far, his system is asking a lot of coordination between the defensive corps and the forwards, that may be a risky way to play hockey every day, but I fell like that, in general, he's a good coach.

On the other hand, Seeing Eric Boulton with a completely safe spot in the NHL is a shame. I said it before, I'll say it again, Boulton's even worse than Cam Janssen, Mister Boulton brings absolutely nothing to the table besides getting caught offside with consequence when Kovy and Parise are on a double-shift or icing the puck in the most pathetic manner.

Still it is just a personal opinion, so what's your take on that ?

Poll

When do you think Pete Deboer should call up Vladimir Zharkov ?

Never, Pete's doing fine without Zharkov. He's as good as gone

11 votes

Pete should call up someone else from Albany before Vladimir Zharkov (who/why?)

2 votes

Pete should call him up but only when an injury replacement will be necessary

23 votes

Pete should call him up mainly to break up the Apocalypse line

51 votes

Pete should better calling him up now because he will be helpful

69 votes

156 votes | Poll has closed

All FanPosts and FanShots are the respective work of the author and not representative of the writers or other users of In Lou We Trust.

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Comments

I’m not personally a fan of Zharkov, but since he is producing, I think that he should get a shot in the NHL again. Playing him with Carter as center could really do some good things. It would really be interesting to see how it would work.
Just remember, the NHL and AHL are two entirely different leagues. It is easier to score in the AHL.

btw, for the first option, did you mean “without”?

by NJGuy on Dec 21, 2011 11:14 PM EST reply actions

I should also note that I would prefer to call him up, but not for any of the options you listed. I would prefer something more like playing Zharkov INSTEAD of Boulton/Janssen.

by NJGuy on Dec 21, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions

btw, for the first option, did you mean "without"?

I was saying he’s doing with Zharkov down, but seeing that confusing I’m gonna edit it now with your vote proposition

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 21, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions

lots of typos, sorry

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 21, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions

If it were up to me, he’d be called up yesterday. He’s be miles ahead of either Boulton or Janssen. But it’s not, so he’ll linger until there’s another injury at forward or he does so well in Albany, he cannot be ignored anymore.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Dec 21, 2011 11:43 PM EST reply actions

Agreed. And if it were up to me, he’d have been on the NHL roster all season so far.

by NJallDay on Dec 22, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions

You really believe he’d be miles ahead of Boulton or Jansen and you base this solely on his last 20 games in the AHL? Do I have to remind you that in the 2009-2010 season Zharkov put up 21 points in 23 games in Albany only to get called up and put up an amazing ten assists in forty games in the NHL? Last season he had 19 points in 31 games in Albany and an impressive 4 points in 38 games in the NHL.

The only thing Zharkov has proven to me is that he can’t produce at the NHL level. I can see an argument made that he wouldn’t be any worse than Boulton or Jansen, but in four games this season Zharkov had zero shots on net so I’m really not buying this argument.

I would probably call up Nick Palmieri over Zharkov. Palmieri has proven that he can play at the NHL level. Something happened this season to cause his game to disappear. He was sent to Albany to find it. Zharkov was sent to Albany because he has only shown that he can’t produce in the NHL.

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions

You really believe he’d be miles ahead of Boulton or Jansen and you base this solely on his last 20 games in the AHL? Do I have to remind you that in the 2009-2010 season Zharkov put up 21 points in 23 games in Albany only to get called up and put up an amazing ten assists in forty games in the NHL?

You’re missing the point. Zharkov is still a young player and not yet a washed-up on the return. You gonna say you’ve seen enough already but you never know basically. At 23, there’s still a chance that this time he may be for real. And still 4 points in 38 games would be better than Janssen on 82 games. Zharkov is a career + ratings guy too, Janssen and Boulton ? minus 23 and minus 22.

but in four games this season Zharkov had zero shots on net so I’m really not buying this argument.

Zharkov averages 4:43 minutes per game under Deboer. Anybody’s got the right to say Zharkov’s not worth the NHL, there’s no problem witht that. But you can’t say Deboer gave him a fair chance this year and that from the game 1 in preseason.

4 minutes per game, 0 minute on PK in 4 games ? I remember without any doubt Sestito killing a penalty on his 3rd shift after he was called-up.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 22, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions

Jacques Lemaire gave Zharkov more than a fair chance to prove he could play over parts of two seasons. At 23 Claude Giroux is the front-runner for the Hart trophy. How long until you declare Zharkov is a bust? Does he get to prove himself until he’s 25? 27? 30? How many successful NHL forwards bloom in their mid-twenties?

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions

Sorry but Giroux is not playing for the Devils, if a comparison has to be made, seriously do it with the current Devils 4th liners. It would be a wonderful accomplishment if Zharkov turns in 20 pts/season defensive-minded serviceable on PK forward. That’s not great but Zharkov definitely has more upside than Janssen or Boulton. I don’t know how you still are questioning that.

You seem to have a good hockey knowledge but your comments turn pretty poorly when you talk about Kovalchuk, and now I see the same stuff with Zharkov….

Do you have a problem with the ruskies ?

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 22, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions

I don’t have a problem with Zharkov or Kovalchuk. My concern is that calling Zharkov up to the NHL just to replace Cam Jansen doesn’t help Zharkov’s development and it won’t make a massive impact on the Devils success. If Zharkov plays the remaining 49 games of the season instead of Jansen, but only plays five minutes a night, how much offense can you expect him to produce?

According to BehindTheNet, Zharkov’s P/60 was 1.18 in 2009-10. Jansen is currently at 0.49 for the season. At five minutes a game, Zharkov would produce one extra point over Jansen every 12 games. Over the remaining 49 games that amounts to 4 goals, or 1 win. However, in 2010-11, Zharkov’s P/60 was only 0.46. If he plays at that level then he’s no better than Jansen as far as offensive production goes.

I suspect that on a line with Boulton and Carter, Zharkov’s production would be closer to his 2010-11 numbers than the 2009-10 numbers. Perhaps if he gets to play with Clarkson and Zajac/Josefsson/Henrique at center then he’ll put up numbers like he did in 2009-10. Mattias Tedenby’s P/60 this season is a 0.93 though, so offensively Zharkov isn’t even a big upgrade there, but he would be a big upgrade defensively.

PS: Apologies if my comments turn sour at some points. I do most of my posting from work and based on my workload throughout the day I put more or less effort into researching what I say. This comment obviously has a lot of research behind it!

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions

True, I’d rather keep Zharkov with Albany than playing him 4 minutes per game in NHL. But I wish Deboer could call-up good hockey players and give them decent ice-time too. We’ll see but that’s a very long shot.

Thanks for the research by the way.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 22, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions

You realize that despite his lack of offensive production, Zharkov was one of the team’s best defensive forwards under Lemaire, right?

by Zelepukin on Dec 22, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions

If you’re referring to the 2009-10 season then yes, I am aware that Zharkov’s Relative Corsi and GAON/60 were team leading. However, his Quality of Competition was at the bottom of the team. Only Halischuk, Leblond, Pelley, Pikkarainen and Peters saw weaker competition than Zharkov.

If you look at Relative Corsi adjusted for Quality of Competition, Zharkov is 15th on the team, just behind Tim Sestito and just ahead of PL3.

All stats courtesy of behindthenet.ca

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions

If you were really replying to me, you’re preaching to the choir Zelepukin.

I’m fully aware that he’s a very competent forechecker/backchecker/defensive forward.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 22, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions

Crosby won the Art Ross when he was 19, so if a player doesn’t win the Art Ross at 19, hes a bust? Come on, Zharkov and Giroux are on completely different levels, but no player on the Devils is as good as Giroux.

And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?

by KovyisLove on Dec 22, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions

The problem with this season’s call-up was that Zharkov was basically pigeon-holed into spot-duty on the fourth line with a couple of goons, averaging under 5 minutes per game in those four games. Unfortunately I don’t know how to work stat sites like BTN and TOI well enough to back up my statement and I’m at work and don’t have the time to delve into it.

Nevertheless, while Zharkov hasn’t provided a bounty of offense during his time with the big club, he has shown himself to be of value on the PK, as well, he has shown some solid defensive awareness 5v5. Can the same be said of one-trick ponies Janssen and Boulton?

And finally, games played and point totals for the season to date:

Cam Janssen: 26 GP, 1 Assist
Tim ENERGY Sestito: 12 GP, 0 points
Eric Boulton: 15 GP, 0 points

by Marty 4 Prez on Dec 22, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions

I’m trying to isolate Zharkov with Sestito, Pelley, and Mair from last season but I don’t really know what I’m doing on this site well enough to bring up a proper comparison, sadly…

If anyone could give me a hand, I’d appreciate it.

Link

by Marty 4 Prez on Dec 22, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions

I agree with John. Should have been called up yesterday. Why Boulton and Janssen are on the team let a lone both in the same game together is driving me up a wall. To think we are stuck with Boulton for another year.

Call up Zharkov send Janssen down or cut him.

by NJDOhio on Dec 22, 2011 12:33 AM EST reply actions

Spot on

I don’t usually presume to be smarter than the Coaches and of course Lou, but it is so blatantly obvious that having these guys on the roster at the same time and playing on the same line is a waste. Zharkov might at least give them a chance to score.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall. - Vince Lombardi

by Devilssection21fan on Dec 22, 2011 8:21 AM EST up reply actions

I agree for the most part, but at this point I’d seriously have a hard time faulting anyone who presumed themselves to be smarter than Oates.

by NJallDay on Dec 22, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions

Explain to me how Zharkov gives them more of a chance to score than Jansen or Boulton? The fourth line as it is now is meant to provide extra energy to the rest of the team either by giving them an extra 30 seconds between shifts or by energizing the crowd/team through big physical plays and fights.

Zharkov has never provided any tangible benefit to the Devils with only 14 points in his 78 games played.

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions

You're missing a huge piece of the puzzle

If Zharkov replaced EITHER Boulton or Janssen, the 4th line would not get scored upon as much. He’s way better defensively. Sure, he may not help put pucks in the net on the 4th line, but he sure as heck will help keep them out. We’ve seen how badly teams have been mopping up the ice with our 4th line for the short amount of time they’re on the ice. Even if they give up a quarter of a goal less per game, that still adds up to at least 2 extra wins over the course of the rest of the season. That point ALONE is enough to swap Zharkov out for one of the meatheads. Even totally ignoring offense.

Zharkov’s GAON/60 was 1.08 in 2010-11. Janssen’s and Boulton’s are 2.45 and 2.39 respectively this season. A quarter goal per game may not be completely accurate (probably more like .1 for 5 min TOI), but the point remains. Zharkov will keep more pucks out of the net than Boulton or Janssen.

Go Devils
Go Jets

by FrankG929 on Dec 22, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions

Parise Henrique Kovy
Sykora Elias Zubrus
Tedenby Zajac Clarkson
Palmieri Carter Zharkov

by NJallDay on Dec 22, 2011 8:11 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

Look at that, we would have four respectable lines. Wouldn’t that be a pretty decent early Christmas/belated Chanukah present to the fans?

by Marty 4 Prez on Dec 22, 2011 8:50 AM EST up reply actions

and still without Josefson…

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 22, 2011 9:27 AM EST up reply actions

Yessir it would be great. And as fans I propose we give back by providing an early/late/whenever present to the team by showing up to more games!

by NJallDay on Dec 22, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions

Protest to Lou

We need to make a petition for Zharkov to be called up and send it to Lou. You would think after the success the team had under Lemaire that Lou would realize the roster should probably be kept similar. Which does not include a Goon line of completely useless players. I think if PDB was to call up Lemaire and ask him for advice the first thing he would say is CALL UP ZHARKOV and then make a funny. God i miss Jacques. All in all we need Valddy now he will develop into a great two-way player and eventually he will loose the nickname Vladimir “can’t score in a brothel” Zharkov.

by NJDevils30 on Dec 22, 2011 10:17 AM EST reply actions

by NJDevils30 on Dec 22, 2011 10:20 AM EST reply actions

Palmieri Carter Zharkov would be awesome. (P&Z became 2 of my favorite players last season. I have a now “classic” #32 Palmieri jersey.)

I don’t know if the numbers prove it, but my eyes told me Zharkov was our best defensive forward all through our great 2nd half last season.

That said, Boulton will play. But why does Cam need to play every night? He’s always been a “stick him in when you need a fight” type player.

And, is it just me, or is the bloom off the Carter rose?

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Dec 22, 2011 11:28 AM EST reply actions

Not just you, he is playing some bad hockey.

As to the original question, I think we’ll see Vladimir when the team stops needing 8 D.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Dec 22, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions

I think Carter has the potential to be a solid fourth, possibly even third, line player for this team. When he came here he was playing a different style of hockey than he is now. He was originally trying to prove himself, and was playing actual hockey and making PDB look like a genius for lobbying Lou to pick him up. Since then, Carter has drawn the ire of many teams and has personally run into opposing goalies at least 4 times already. He’s fighting more, which I don’t mind, but I don’t think his physical/fighting/agitator style is why PDB and Lou went and got him. I wish Ryan would go back to playing real hockey and trying to prove himself that way, despite how hard it may be when you’re lined up next to tweedledee and tweedledum.

by NJallDay on Dec 22, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions

How would Pamieri Carter Zharkov be awesome? Carter is a defensive forward, Zharkov can’t score to save his life, and Palmieri only ever produced when he was playing with two All-Stars on his line.

What would be so awesome about the five minutes of ice time this line would get a night? Could they fight? No. Could they score? Unlikely. Could they do anything useful? Probably not.

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions

I guess I was thinking with my heart and not my head when I wrote that.

But, Zharkov and Palmieri did more for the team last year then any of our current 4th liners have done, or will do this year.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Dec 22, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions

Palmieri has 4 goals this year, or more goals than the entire 4th line, Tedenby, and Carter combined.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Dec 22, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Good point.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Dec 22, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions

I would bring back Palmieri to play on a 3rd line with Zajac and Clarkson. He would be more productive than Mattias Tedenby.

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions

Or Henrique/Joseffson, it doesn’t really matter. Palmieri needs a good center to play with. Not Ryan Carter or Brad Mills.

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions

Agreed. I don’t see why PDB doesn’t at least try reuniting Palmieri/Zajac/Kovy at some point. I know they weren’t exactly the A line, but they were a solid line for 2 months.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Dec 22, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions

Probably because the Parise-Henrique-Kovy line is the hottest line we’ve got right now, and you don’t want to mess with a good thing.

by Marty 4 Prez on Dec 22, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions

Definitely. That’s why I said “at some point.”

Palmieri needs to do some more damage in Albany before he gets a shot like that again.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Dec 22, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions

Palmieri was given a shot to do that, the problem was that with him as a right handed shot, exiting the zone became a challenge. I think Tedenby is better suited for that position.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Dec 22, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions

They wouldn’t get scored on almost every single game like the Apocolapse line is.

Go Devils
Go Jets

by FrankG929 on Dec 22, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions

I took it as Awesome compared to the current knuckleheads.

knuckleheads as in only good for taking knuckles to the head.

by NJDOhio on Dec 22, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions

There was ever bloom on Carter?

by Bobby V on Dec 23, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions

Carter is surprisingly a good skater, they could be a good fit with Zharkov togheter on the 4th line. No question the majority of the league 4th liners could match speed with them. Moreover, they don’t need to score goals necessarily (they won’t anyway) , they just need to keep the pressure on the opposition, play in their zone, down low, exhaust the defense, tire the goalie etc, etc. With Zajac back, our scoring depth would definitely get the job done more often.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 22, 2011 1:02 PM EST reply actions

Meant as a reply to NJallDay

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 22, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions

ZHARRKKKYYYYY!!!!! he’s a good player, but he hasnt been able to score at the pro level consistently yet (Although neither has the rest of their fourth line)….however he’s incredibly reliable on defense, and a good skater. I would love to see him in the lineup instead of Janssen, whos hockey license should be revoked. I like having Boulton in the lineup occasionally, but you’re right when you say he shouldn’t be a regular, maybe a 13th or even 14th forward. But he is better than Janssen, not necessarily at hitting and being an enforcer, but he has mid-level AHL skill as opposed to Cam Janssen, who should be playing men’s league against Tim Sestito right now. No matter what your opinion is on the matter however, Duboer never gave him much of a chance, and while Zharkov can play with Lemaire’s style, I’m doubtful that he can be as effective with Duboer’s high tempo aggressive game despite his skating ability

by Devilsrule on Dec 22, 2011 1:41 PM EST reply actions

Mattias Tedenby

In 32 games this season, Tedenby has one goal, four assists and is running a -12 rating with only 34 shots on net (Palmieri had 37 shots on net in 22 games for reference). In 10:45 of average ice time Teddy is getting absolutely destroyed. Defensively he can’t break the puck out of the zone and offensively his pretty dekes and puck control only lasts for so long before he gets pushed off the puck or coughs it up with a poor pass or a missed shot. If Zharkov gets called up from Albany I would hope it’s to send Mattias Tedenby down to work on his game because it’s been awful this season.

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 2:09 PM EST reply actions

Interesting point of view

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 22, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions

I agree.

Everyone can talk about lack of ice time or lack of line mates all you want. At some point it should start to show that you belong. That breakout game needs to happen.

Other then being fast and slick with the puck. (Which btw with is his size. he wouldn’t have gotten this far if he didn’t excel with those traits)He hasn’t showed he is very good at much.

I have yet to be impressed with anything from him.

The coaches obviously know more then me. Maybe its just he is the best option? as the 9th forward. I don’t know.

by NJDOhio on Dec 22, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions

I would advocate trading Tedenby before the rest of the league realizes he can’t back-check and that offensively he’s just too weak to make plays through defenders.

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 2:19 PM EST reply actions

You wouldn’t get a whole lot for Mattias Tedenby right now. If I were the GM of another franchise and Lou Lamoriello calls me up out-of-the-blue offering Tedenby in trade, I’d probably wonder what Lou knows that nobody else does (yet)…. because that would be awfully quick to give up on a 1st-round pick.

I don’t think we’ve seen anything near what Tedenby is capable of on a regular basis. If you go through a game log for #21 this season, you’ll see his ice time is often sporadic and often not very high. Some of it is definitely Mattias’ fault — his play often warrants his butt being stapled to the bench — but it isn’t easy for him to demonstrate what he can do when he skates with crummy linemates and gets irregular playing time.

I’ve said this in another thread and I’ll say it again here: once it comes time to break up the Parise-Henrique-Kovalchuk line, I’d try Tedenby with Parise and Zajac for a few games. I think Teddy could flourish playing the cycling game along the boards like Z&Z do, and he’d look better with superior linemates who can also pick up some of that defensive slack. I would also hope for some of Parise’s tireless work ethic to rub off on Tedenby.

….

As for the whole fourth line / Zharkov issue, John wrote an article about a month ago questioning PDB and his intentions with the fourth line. We’ve seen said fourth line contribute incredibly little on the scoresheet so far this season outside the PIMs column — one assist from Bradley Mills, and the Cater/Janssen contribution to the Sykora goal last Friday night.

At some point, we’re going to need a fourth line that can contribute to some degree offensively and play 8-10 minutes per night, because the top two lines will hit the wall hard with all the minutes they’ve logged so far (especially if the numbers don’t substantially change going forward). I’m convinced that Eric Boulton and Cam Janssen cannot fulfill that need in any reasonable fashion…. so I’m all for getting some other guys out there.

Zharkov’s 14 points in 82 career NHL games doesn’t seem like very much, but it is light years ahead of what we’re getting now. Even if you simply have Zharkov skating with Carter and a winger-to-be-named later, it has to be better than what we’ve got…. and both Zharkov and Carter are responsible enough defensively that the line shouldn’t be a complete black hole and dominated by other teams.

by acasser on Dec 22, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions

I agree with your assessment of Tedenby. He needs to be a more consistent player and it has to be a combination of his own effort plus PDB providing him the opportunity.

I talked about this a bit above, but looking at the numbers at BehindTheNet, I don’t know how good Zharkov would be if he only gets five minutes a night on the fourth line. His TOI/60 from 2009-10 to 2010-11 didn’t drop at all but his P/60 was cut in more than half from 1.18 to 0.46. If Zharkov is going to produce at the level he did in 2009-10 (10 points in 40 games) then he needs to have a consistent line that can produce with him. Carter and Boulton won’t provide that.

I also share your fourth line concerns though. I looked at the Boston Bruins stats from last season and the Campbell-Paille-Thornton line put up a combined 62 points and averaged just over 10:00 of ice time at evens. That’s a lot better than what we’ve got now.

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions

I don’t know how good ANYONE would be at five minutes per night.

Sometimes, it seems like a “chicken and egg” situation to me, because I don’t have answers. Do we have a situation where PDB doesn’t employ the fourth line very often because of the dregs and rejects he’s been handed? Or do we have a situation where PDB has zero intention of regularly using a fourth line — and has told Lamoriello as much — and therefore the back end of the roster is populated by those same dregs and rejects as to allow Zharkov and Palmieri (among others) the opportunity to develop and play gonzo minutes at Albany?

I’m hesitant to take any one example of a fourth line and use that as comparison to our situation…. whether that example is Boston last season or the fabled Crash Line from 1995. At the same time, I’d prefer a more robust fourth line that can take a regular shift without hurting the team, both for its own sake and because I’d like to bring down the TOI figures for our top forwards. Ilya Kovalchuk may be able to handle that kind of workload on a nightly basis, but he’s the rare example of a forward who can in this League.

For all we know, Zharkov might be closer to the player who put up 4 points in 38 games last season (as opposed to 10-in-42 the year prior)…. but even that player would be superior to what we’re throwing out there in my opinion. And he might land in-between. None of us know…. but I have to think there’s something there if a coach as good as Jacques Lemaire saw fit to put him out there for 10-12 minutes/night on a regular basis, including some time on the PK.

I’m not asking for significant goal/assist numbers, especially if the idea would be to use Zharkov for 8-10 minutes/night and some PK duties. I just want a guy I can put out there on a regular basis who can take some of those minutes away from people who probably won’t keep producing if they keep getting ridden as hard as they have been.

by acasser on Dec 22, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions

I also share your fourth line concerns though. I looked at the Boston Bruins stats from last season and the Campbell-Paille-Thornton line put up a combined 62 points and averaged just over 10:00 of ice time at evens.

That’s what we are talking about ! Depth brings the constancy to win games.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 22, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions

I meant to agree

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 22, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions

The Devils don’t have enough quality depth to ice three good lines right now, let alone four. Maybe when Josefson gets back we can re-visit this topic…. assuming of course nobody else gets hurt, traded, or has their play-and-production fall off a cliff.

by acasser on Dec 22, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions

of course Boston is on another planet. but the Devils instantly had more depth with Zajac, and will get even more with Josfeson and probably a bit if/when Palmierir and Zharkov will/would be ready.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

by Elektrostal_Kid on Dec 22, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions

Boston’s Depth is an interesting analysis and in all fairness I think you have to compare your team to the reigning Stanley Cup Champions because we want to measure ourselves at that level. Anyways, here are Boston’s average lines from last season (provided by leftwinglock.com):

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Recchi-Bergeron-Marchand
Ryder-Kelly-Sequin-Peverly
Thornton-Campbell-Paille

Boston’s second and third line saw a lot of interchangeable parts due to injuries and/or inexperience. However, here’s the same lines with the Even Strength ATOI for each player:

Lucic 14:02 – Krejci 14:55 – Horton 13:50
Recchi 12:41 – Bergeron 13:06 – Marchand 11:52
Ryder 12:21 – Kelly 12:41 – Seguin 10:49 – Peverly 14:02
Thornton 9:55 – Campbell 11:29 – Paille 10:01

That’s a lot different from a certain team we all know and love:

Parise 16:05 – Henrique 14:28 – Kovalchuk 18:19
Sykora 14:02 – Elias 14:46 – Zajac 14:04 – Zubrus 14:34
Tedenby 10:18 – Carter 10:54 – Clarkson 13:06 – Palmieri 10:50
Boulton 6:40 – Sestito 7:40 – Jansen 4:42

Come Say Hello! Section 231 - Row 2 - Seat 20

by Alamoth on Dec 22, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Excellent post and research. I haven’t read all of your posts or everything here because I don’t have time at the moment, but I think the numbers you posted here actually support the argument of why Zharkov should be called up. I’ve made a few posts about how dumb it is that Kovy and Parise are playing so much per game. Some people see them have some success and brag that Kovy is beating many top defenseman in terms of TOI and is still scoring, but I can’t help but think that it may also be the very reason Zach/Kovy have often occasionally this season.

I also think it was a detriment to the team to continually reward Kovy with oodles of ice time at even and PP strength when he was continuously turning over the puck. It’s not just about punishing poor play, it’s about sending a message and keeping guys fresh so that they have the energy to fully perform on plays rather than always looking for the easiest/laziest option.

I think our top line should have no more than 15 minutes each of TOI per game. Give Zharkov Carter Palmieri ~10 each and we finally have some legitimate depth, non-exhausted superstars, and a chance to allow Zharky to play at the NHL level without sticking him with only 4 minutes a game.

by NJallDay on Dec 22, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions

Rec'd

Great research. It’s a little depressing to see how much more depth Boston has right now, but it illustrates your point very well. Zharkov would be able to balance out the ATOI and help reduce the high amount of minutes Parise/Kovalchuk have had to play. Anything to get Janssen/Boulton off the roster more often, tbh (without having to call up Palmieri again). With how well the Devils’ PK is doing, I would think Zharky would fit right in and might even get a SHG.

by njdss4 on Dec 23, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions

I’d rather see Palmieri be given another shot before Zharkov. Zharkov, Sestito and Carter are all minor leaguers with little talent. Stats in the minors are overrated. Zharkov has had some chances and showed too little to warrant getting excited about.

by denmay on Dec 24, 2011 1:11 PM EST reply actions