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2011 Trade Deadline Question: What will the New Jersey Devils do with Andy Greene?

When speaking about the New Jersey Devils' offseason priorities, the first thing that comes to mind is Zach Parise. But Parise's future -in my mind- is likely settled by one factor: whether he wants to play the remainder of his career in New Jersey. The money is there, and he has proven himself a great player over the years. Decisions like 're-signing Zach Parise' aren't prefaced by questions like: Is he for real? Is he worth a long-term deal? Those questions are for players like Andy Greene.

Greene, a fourth year defenseman signed as a undrafted free agent from Miami of Ohio, is an unrestricted free agent at year's end. His first real shot at being a UFA (I don't count his two year deal signed in 2008) at age 27 will be Greene's best shot at securing a long-term deal and the boatload of money that would come with it. So what should the Devils do? Sign him to a market rate contract or attempt to move him before the trade deadline? Wait until the offseason and when he and his agent likely know that some clown of a GM will overpay him?

I honestly don't have a clear opinion yet. Maybe I am jaded by too many $3MM-$4MM a year contracts Lou Lamoriello has given out to defensemen recently (that would be you Johnathan Oduya)?  

What I wanted to look at is the past free agent market for defensemen, pull out some comparable players to see what they were paid in unrestricted free agency, and then look at the defensive UFAs available on July 1st and try to figure out how long and how much it would take to keep Andy Greene a Devil. I will also try to gauge his trade value at the upcoming trade deadline to see what type of return he could generate.

Star-divide

Below I have put together a listing of the 2009/2010 defensive free agent signings that best represent what the free market value of Andy Greene could be.  I have pared the list by looking for players signing 2-4 year contracts for a yearly average of less than $4MM per year. I also only looked at unrestriced free agents. 

 Fa_d_medium

Now, there are mitigating factors that influence the price of each player.  Would Rob Scuderi have received a 4 year deal if he had not had a great playoff run for the Penguins in 2009?  Would Jordan Leopold have received a better deal if he had not been injured for the Penguins in 2010?  The players above also have different levels of accomplishment/reputation that influenced their free agent contracts.  Considering the deals above I would think that if the Andy Greene that has played for the Devils the past two years was available as a free agent for the past two seasons he would have likely received compensation of:

2 years/$3MM average per year/$6MM total

3 years/$2.75MM average per year/$8.25MM total

4 years/$2.50MM average per year/$10MM total

But those hypothetical contracts exist in a perfect world.   Bad general managers can shift the market for a player very quickly, so it is quite possible that if Andy Greene becomes a UFA on July 1st he would get "Sathered" and overpaid in free agency.  Now let's look at the actual market for the 2011 defensive free agent class.  Once again I have scrubbed the list for players who I feel are young enough and productive enough to receive long term contracts (For example I didn't list players over 32 years old).  

Further, I have ranked each player by a tier.  The top tier represents players that teams would likely target as a top defenseman.   The second tier is for quality players who would be cheaper options than the top tier, but players who won't be looked at to be a top pairing defenseman.  The third tier would be players viewed as a bottom pairing player who wouldn't be a liability playing on the second pairing.  The fourth tier represents stop-gap options for teams who may want more of a veteran presence for a lower pairing defenseman to fill out the roster.  Once again the below list is only UFAs.  RFAs were not considered.

2011_fa_medium

So you have a sense of the player's effectiveness this season I have also listed Goals Versus Threshold (GVT) ratings and minutes per game.  Only seven players have been more effective than Greene this year.  Considering the Devils recent resurgance I could see Greene's GVT rating passing Brewer and possible Montador. Along with Jonathan Ericsson of the Red Wings, Greene could be an under the radar signing for a team that doesn't have the money to spend on a Kaberle or Ehrhoff.   The deal that scares me is a contract extensionrecently given to the Stars Trevor Daley who received a $3.3MM per year deal.  A comparable player to Greene, Daley received a six year deal from the Stars.

The problem now is can the Devils sign him to a market friendly deal during their exclusive negotiating period after the season. (This would all be much easier if Lou Lamoriello tried to negotiate an extension early with Greene, but unless you are Marty Brodeur that doesn't happen.) 

Even if they can re-sign him, how can they be sure they just bought the same level of production?  I am assuming that he continues to play at the level he has for the last year and a half.  Is it safe to do this. Even though he could be a great value signing he could just as easily be another Johnny Oduya.   He could be signed to a 2-4 year deal and not meet the expectations of a long term, big money contract. Without a long track record to go on it is tough to commit long term to him.   With the Devils in a tough cap situation next year and plently of money needed to sign Parise can the Devils even afford to re-sign him? 

More importantly, if he is to leave who replaces his offensive production and minutes on the blueline? Matt Taormina? Anssi Salmela?  Matt Corrente?  Mark Fayne? It would be hard to count on any of those players to jump into a 20 minute a night, offensive defenseman role.  

The other aspect to Andy Greene's current situation is of course the trade deadline.   Greene, with a very managable cap hit, would be highly sought after should he be available.  What type of value would he get back?  Judging on past trade deadlines the normal return would be a 2nd round pick.  

That said, this season has seen more prospects and 1st round picks involved in trades than previous years.  Ty Wishart going to the Islanders for Dwayne Roloson and Jake Gardiner traded to the Maple Leafs in the Francois Beauchemin deal could mean that Greene might be worth a bit more this year.  It would preferable to receive a player who is closer to NHL than one who is just starting out on that career path.  It is important to note that both Wishart and Gardiner were good, not great prospects on their respective clubs.  A good comparison to prospects in the Devils system would be Eric Gelinas or Brandon Burlon.  Not the top prospects, but in the top 5/top 7 variety.

But don't forget draft picks.  If Carrie Underwood's husband is worth a 1st round pick and a conditional pick and Kris Versteeg is worth a 1st and 3rd, the market might be ripe for seller's this year.  

If Greene was to be traded who would be a potential trade partner?  Looking at the teams competing for the playoffs and with defensive needs I think you could say that the following teams would have interest in Greene:  San Jose, Boston, Nashville, Vancouver and Tampa Bay. 

The team with the best assets to target would be Boston.  With extra picks in the 1st round (Toronto) and 2nd round (Minnesota) and a pretty good prospect pool (Zach Hamill-C or Jared Knight-C/RW would be quality pick-ups)Boston would have the most expendable assets to work with.   But will Lamoriello deal with an eastern conference team?  I would hope so, as Boston bidding on Andy Greene (or any Devils player) would be a very good thing.

Nashville, who just traded their 1st round pick in the 2011 draft for Carrie Underwood's husband still has two 2nd round picks (one being the Devils via the Jason Arnott trade) and had a few promising prospects that the Devils could use.  I would hope and pray for Ryan Ellis-D, but that won't happen.  Prospects they would possibly give up in a deal for Greene would be Austin Watson-RW or Roman Josi-D.  Nashville is not in desperate need of another offensive defenseman so it might be tougher to get more out of them, than say Boston.

Tampa Bay (according to Tom Gulitti) had interest in Greene earlier in the season but has since signed Marc-Andre Bergeron to help with offense from the blueline.  The only problem is that MAB doesn't play defense.  While they might have need for a player like Greene, Lightning GM Steve Yzerman doesn't seem likely to give up any draft picks.  If they do entertain trading prospects like Richard Panik-RW or Brock Beukeboom-D that should be something the Devils look into.

Vancouver has been ravaged by injuries to their defensive corps.  With cap troubles in addition to the injury concerns Greene would be an attractive option to the Canucks who are looking like a Stanley Cup contender.  They have all of their top picks (1st three rounds) for the 2011 draft and a nice offensive defenseman in Kevin Connauton in their system.

San Jose could also use Greene's offensive abilities, have their top 2011 draft picks available but their organizational system doesn't have great depth at offense or defense.  They do however have good depth at goaltending.  Alex Stalock, playing in Worcester, might be a nice fit for the Devils as a starter at Albany or a backup in the NHL next year.  

Conclusion:

With his impending free agency and the Devils likely to not be in playoff position, Greene poses some tough questions to Devils management.  Go against organizational philosophy and discuss a contract with him before the trade deadline?  Wait until the off-season to re-sign him, worrying that the closer he gets to unrestricted free agency he might get blown away by an offer?  Trade him for a premium draft pick or a prospect that is close to the NHL? 

What would I do?  I would attempt to strike a deal in the 3 year/$2.5MM range before the trade deadline.  If that wasn't going to work I would have to look into trading him.  While you always want to sign your own free agents-especially those you found via undrafted free agency-there has to be a ceiling on what you will pay that player.  I like Andy Greene and hope he stays, but I would not be willing to let him Oduya the roster. 

(My favorite personal unicorn trade: Jason Arnott and Andy Greene to Boston for Toronto's 1st round pick in 2011.)

What will the Devils do?  I doubt the Devils will trade him by the trade deadline unless they are blown away by an offer.  It's also unlikely they would negotiate with him before the trade deadline.   They will likely use the exclusive negotiating window to try and lock Greene up, but I fear they will likely overpay him and sign him to a $3.25MM-$3.5MM average salary per year.

So now it's your turn?  What is Andy Greene worth?  Should he be moved before the trade deadline?  If he is moved what is a fair return?  Do you think I am missing any potential trade partners?  Sound off below and thanks for reading. 

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If Carrie Underwood’s husband is worth a 1st round pick and a conditional pick and Kris Versteeg is worth a 1st and 3rd, the market might be ripe for seller’s this year.

I think this is an important point and one Lou can hopefully take advantage of.

The 3rd and 12th seeds in the West are separated by 8 points; the Pacific has all five teams within four points of one another and within striking distance of winning the division. In the East, though there is a little more distance between teams and less “on the bubble”, there are several teams with a good shot at clinching a 7 or 8 seed because so many teams are playing inconsistently that one good (or bad) run can change the whole playoff picture.

As to what should happen with Greene, I’m not sure. During the MacLame era, I wanted him gone, and though he’s definitely turned his game around since, I don’t think he’s living up to last season. Based on his age, his UFA status and that he’s unlikely to ever match his breakout season, I’d like to get max value for him now while he’s playing well and the market is favorable for sellers… but without him it worries me a little what next year’s defensive corps will look like.

by elesias on Feb 15, 2011 10:54 AM EST reply actions  

An important caveat with the Fisher and Versteeg trades (as well as the Lupul/Beachemin trade) is that all of them had contracts extending beyond this year. I consider the willingness of GMs this year to trade for players with term left on their contracts to be unusual, but I wouldn’t take them as a sign that it’s a sellers market for the more traditional expiring-contract players. I think a 2nd rd pick is still the going price for a solid rental.

by dr(d)evil on Feb 15, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought Greene was the best Offensive D prospect the Devils have ever brought up since Rafalski… That was until I got to see Taormina’s skill set.

Greene is a tough one to gauge. Like most of the team he had the misfortune of spending half the season under MacLean and well he wasn’t very good at the start. He seemed to start turning things around when Lemaire came in, but he’s also not contributed anything in the past 6 games. It’s also unfortunate the Taormina is probably done for he season and the only time any of us got to see him was with MacLean behind the bench.

I like Green but I’m not sure how much higher of a ceiling he has as an O-Dman. I think he’s worth right around what you priced him at Tom. 2.5 per for 3 or 4 years.

I wouldn’t mind trading him for assets if the right deal a came along, but I also wouldn’t mind keeping him idf a reasonable contract was worked out.

by Zelepukin on Feb 15, 2011 10:55 AM EST reply actions  

I like Greene and agree with elesias that next years D has lots of questions, but if we could get a great deal, it’d be awfully tempting, Lately I’ve been wondering what it would take to pick up a late first rounder in order to satisfy Bettman. If Lou thinks that Greene is gone regardless of offer (ala Paul Martin), or the coaching staff thinks that he’s peaked, maybe this is a useful scenario. This is supposed to be a relatively weak draft if I remember correctly, that may be why more teams are willing to part with high picks.

by NJHockey8 on Feb 15, 2011 11:28 AM EST reply actions  

It might be a weak draft, but one of the advantages to the way the draft system is setup is that you can draft NCAA players who are Freshman and essentially sit on them for a few years with no obligation to ever offer them a contract. This is what teams should do with 4th-7th round picks.

A guy I would like the Devils to pick late or maybe even the third round is Dillon Simpson out of North Dakota. He plays behind some of the best defenders in the country and has held his own so far in WCHA competition. Interestingly enough, he is also the nephew of Devils commentator Christine Simpson.

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by Tom Stivali on Feb 15, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I think this is definitely the toughest decision for the Devils this year. If he does leave though, there is a couple options they could do in FA. Although the price might be too steep.

In the end I would like him resigned and let Fraser and Salmella walk IMO.

Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies, 2011

by joshd12 on Feb 15, 2011 11:40 AM EST reply actions  

One interesting thing about Greene as an asset is how low his salary is this season relative to the amount of minutes he is able of playing. A team that picks him up at or near the deadline gets a very, very low pro-rated salary. This means he can fit onto teams that don’t have tons of cap space. This is a narrower market, and therefore might net a higher return for his services.

It’s a tough question. He’s been a great value to us at his salary, but because he was a bit of a late bloomer and doesn’t have the track record that most 27-yr-old defensemen have, I’d strongly hesitate to throw big money at him, such as with the aforementioned Oduya.

Greene and Arnott together to the right team could land a pretty high-level prospect.

1995 - 2000 - 2003

by bergenline on Feb 15, 2011 11:42 AM EST reply actions  

I think those two to Boston for a 1st. Boston doesn’t need a C but could use a little depth. Plus just give us there 1st and keep Toronto’s.

Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies, 2011

by joshd12 on Feb 15, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Did you guys miss this:

(My favorite personal unicorn trade: Jason Arnott and Andy Greene to Boston for Toronto’s 1st round pick in 2011.)

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by Tom Stivali on Feb 15, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I said this long ago

However, I said for Boston’s first round.

Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies, 2011

by joshd12 on Feb 15, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah asking for Toronto’s first brings the Unicorn into play.

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by Tom Stivali on Feb 15, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you could put Toronto’s pick into play by getting creative with a swap with the Devils’ first round pick. Suppose Andy Greene is truly worth more than a second-round pick for Boston, who is the perfect trading partner in this situation. Trade: Greene for Boston’s 2nd round pick, but the Devils have the option of giving up that 2nd rounder and swapping their 1st rounder for the Toronto 1st rounder that Boston owns if the 1st round picks are within 5 spots of each other.

Boston gets Greene for less than they might otherwise have had to pay, and if Toronto’s 1st rd pick turns out to be a top-5, the swap won’t drop them any worse than 10th. If the Devils continue to play well and just miss the playoffs, they’ll probably be picking in the #5-10 range, but the swap clause will still allow them to draft in the top-5, a nice consolation, if they choose to do so. If the Devils can’t sustain this pace, they’ll be in strong contention for a top-5 pick and won’t need to give up a second-rounder to swap for Toronto’s pick, so everyone’s happy from a drafting standpoint. If the Devils go nuts in the last 26 games and make the playoffs, Boston’s high pick is protected from the swap.

by dr(d)evil on Feb 15, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

very interesting thought.

Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies, 2011

by joshd12 on Feb 15, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

but ya i did miss it.

Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies, 2011

by joshd12 on Feb 15, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Trade him now

I think he has peaked. $2.5 mill a year seems like WAY too much to me but I’m no expert. I’m with you Tom, if a good deal presents itself we should jump on it. Do you think Lou has learned from his previous mistakes, I.e. the contracts of Oduya, Rolston, and Zubrus?

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by Michael Gianetti on Feb 15, 2011 12:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

It’s hard to lump those three together since Rolston/Zubrus were contract offers made during FA so there were potentially other bidders that influenced the deal. Oduya? One of the best things about the Kovy deal was removing his salary from the books.

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by Tom Stivali on Feb 15, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

People may want rolston if they are extremely desperate for scoring…maybe LA wants him for this year and nextyear…

by KovyisLove on Feb 15, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I think Alex Kovalev would be teams first priority, as he’s got the expiring contract and can score (that is, when he feels like it). That’s the power of expiring contracts- makes terrible players seem attractive. Though if teams were willing to trade for players with years left on their contracts with big money (FIsher with 2 years left, Versteeg with 1 year left and the Flyers having no cap space, thanks Andrej Meszaros!) I think teams would probably consider taking Rolston over Kovalev, as Rolston’s less likely to be a liability on and off the ice than Kovalev

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by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 15, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve gone back and forth on this issue at least twice since it became obvious that the Devils would be sellers at the trade deadline.

Right now, he’s playing too well to keep him. That seems paradoxical, but Greene’s been vastly underpaid for the last two seasons, and it’s unlikely that he’s going to want to cut the Devils a big break with his next contract. The defensive market is rather barren, too. The Trevor Daley contract is a good comp, Daley is a guy who can play in all situations and is probably around average, but he got way too many years and way too many dollars. Ditto Mark Giordano. It’s hard to imagine that Greene will not be looking for a 4 year deal worth in excess of 12 million dollars, which is something that New Jersey just can’t swing right now. The Devils have too many guys with at-market or worse contracts – they can’t afford to add another one.

He also has big value at the deadline because his contract is virtually nil, meaning any team can add him. I think he will fetch more than a 2nd.

by Triumph44 on Feb 15, 2011 1:32 PM EST reply actions  

I go back and forth daily. The Daley contract might be the nail in the coffin though.

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by Tom Stivali on Feb 15, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

right, and i think the jay leach deal is maybe a little telling. the devils added what’s basically minor league depth, and there’s a myriad of reasons to maybe do so, but they are out of guys they can call up – davison is on a one-way, meaning he would be subject to re-entry. eckford is out for personal reasons. magnan was pretty bad. kelly and young aren’t ready. urbom would lose a year of his contract. so get a placeholder who can finish out the year here if necessary.

by Triumph44 on Feb 15, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Greene has been a bargain for two seasons because he was an unheralded, undrafted player who beat the odds and panned out. I think folks are correct in likening him to Daley and Giordano. I don’t think we’d be happy with Greene’s performance earning that type of money, so trading him should be the thing to do, especially since he is at peak value and there is a very strong market for defensemen. So trading him seems smart.

The real question then, is how do we replace him? He eats a lot of minutes and is the top point-getter on a woefully low-scoring defensive squad. He does all this for a bargain price.

Taormina should hopefully be back on track next season to replace Greene’s offense, but he’s not as defensively effective as Greene and won’t be able to do a 22-26 minute night like Greene often does. Can Corrente step up and take those minutes? Fayne?

1995 - 2000 - 2003

by bergenline on Feb 15, 2011 2:08 PM EST reply actions  

Fayne

Has been playing really well lately and it’s obvious he has the Coaches trust. I think he’s a guy to watch to start eating up Greene’s minutes if he’s traded.

by Zelepukin on Feb 15, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

fayne is playing like a top 4 defender right now. it's an open question whether he can sustain that, but his salary is almost sure to be 4 to 6 times less than what greene's making.

by Triumph44 on Feb 15, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Fayne wasn’t really ever much discussed whenever people spoke of the Devils’ defensive prospects. So I, like I’m sure most of you had no clue who he was or what he could do when he got called up.

I actually fo some reason assumed he was just another big bodied defensive defenseman. So his offensive play and contributions on the powerplay caught me off guard.

Hockey Futures Anaylisis on him is actually pretty spot on:

Fayne is a powerful yet mobile defenseman, who is solid at both ends of the ice. He’s skates very well for his size but could stand to improve his foot speed. Fayne utilizes his large frame and long reach quite effectively both offensively and defensively. He is strong on skates and transitions well. Fayne possesses a powerful shot with a quick release. His blistering wristshot is particularly noteworthy.

Fayne does an outstanding job of staying with opposing forwards, taking care of his own end and doesn’t shy away from delivering some solid checks. He could stand to be more aggressive in his play around his own net. Fayne’s outstanding passing ability also makes him quite good on the power play. In his first season at Providence College, Fayne was utilized in a virtually all situations and as his development progresses, many of his weaknesses should improve as well.

You can read the rest over here. But it sounds to me that Fayne much like say, Andy Greene, is another solid yet unspectacular prospect in the team’s farm system who got little attention but is the right sort of player who adjusts well and quickly to the pro game.

They also note, like i think we’ve all seen over the past few games, two of his best traits are his wrist shot, which he is good with getting on net, and his passing. So I’m going to assume that is no fluke we have been seeing and he will only get better with both skills. Something our D could definitely use more of.

by Zelepukin on Feb 15, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

In related news, Vancouver lost another defenseman last night when Andy Alberts broke his wrist. Hamhuis, Ballard, and one more (Bieksa?) are already out. They are serious about making a run this year and will likely trade for at least one D-man. Preferably UFA’s, given VAN’s cap status.

Definitely a team to keep an eye on.

1995 - 2000 - 2003

by bergenline on Feb 15, 2011 2:17 PM EST reply actions  

0.o Atlanta signs Byuglien for a 5 year 26 million dollar deal… If hes a defensive liability and got 5.25 mill per year… is the asking price for andy really that high as well?

by KovyisLove on Feb 15, 2011 4:35 PM EST reply actions  

Probably not, but I think Greene might have earned an extra $500K-$750K because of this.

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by Tom Stivali on Feb 15, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Byfuglien is younger than Greene, and has been playing in a top-pairing role for the Thrashers. Greene is a complementary player, not a top-pairing player. I doubt that his deal is going to have much, if any impact on Greene’s price tag this offseason.

What evidence is there that Byfuglien is a defensive liability? He’s got an even /- on a team that has a goal differential of -21 for the season. Per his stats on NHL.com, he’s been on the ice for 90 Thrashers goals (best among the team’s D), and 57 goals against the Thrashers (4th most out of 6 Thrasher defensemen who have played 45 games). That may not be anything great, but it suggests that he’s far from a liability.

by HockeyWeasel on Feb 15, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s because he is never used on the penalty kill and is usually used on the power play. He also gets the good ice time.

Byfuglien is not a top-pairing defenseman and it’s arguable that Andy Greene is at least comparable in value to Byfuglien. They won’t get paid anywhere near alike, but Byfuglien’s deal is straight up bad. I think Tom’s estimate of 500k to 750k more because of one deal is rather high, but this will drive Greene’s price up slightly.

by Triumph44 on Feb 15, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

To use a term I made up above…..Byfuglien just got ‘Sathered’.

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by Tom Stivali on Feb 15, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s certainly not a new term, but it is an excellent description of the Byfuglien deal.

As a piece of information…since Jan 1st:
Byfuglien 2-1-3, -6
Greene 1-7-8, +7

Doesn’t mean much (small samples and all), but it’s worth noting considered Atlanta just effectively franchise tagged him.

I see the evidence, and agree that Greene’s true value is probably around $2.5m. I also think it’s quite likely he commands closer to $3m, boxscore numbers generally trump things like GVT, and you have a D man that will put up ~65 points in two years (assuming he stays on pace).

Also, if the Rangers and Devils could ever possibly make a trade, Greene is the type of player that Sather is alleged to be targeting now. However, you’re right not to include them in the list.

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by George E. Ays on Feb 15, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s amazing that the Devils and Rangers have never made a trade. You would think a draft day deal or something. But nothing. Ever.

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by Tom Stivali on Feb 15, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I like that they’ve never made a trade. True rivals should never help one another.

by C.J. Richey on Feb 15, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree 100%, too bad Edmonton and Calgary didn’t care last year.

Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies, 2011

by joshd12 on Feb 15, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

If memory serves, I don’t believe the Rangers and Islanders have ever made a trade, either. I can recall a near-miss, when there were discussions about sending Zigmund Palffy to MSG from the Island when the Islanders were in “fire sale” mode due to a financial catastrophe, but that also fell through and Palffy ended up a Los Angeles King.

Devils have also not made a trade with Philadelphia during the Lou Lamorello era.

by acasser on Feb 15, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Rangers and Islanders made a trade this past offseason, Rangers acquired AHL Dman Jyri Niemi for a 6th rounder. First time ever.

I agree with the sentiment, it’s fun from a fan perspective. It’s not always smart business though.

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by George E. Ays on Feb 15, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know I saw him turn the puck over a lot of times while watching Atlanta, most notably not that long ago on a play that led directly to a goal against .. right here
http://video.thrashers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20102011,2,796&event=TOR621&fr=false

by KovyisLove on Feb 15, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s too much money for Byfuglien, a defenseman who isn’t trusted to kill penalties. Curious timing as well, since he hit a wall scoring-wise over a month ago.

Smaller market teams like Atlanta that have trouble retaining pending free agents (Hossa, Kovalchuk) often overpay to nail down a player. See Minnesota attempting to make up for Gaborik bolting by dropping a too-big contract on M. Koivu.

The market for a defensively responsible offensive defenseman is higher than ever. While Buff puts up a lot of points, he’s yet to prove himself a complete two-way D-man worth 5+ mil.

Greene’s point total and +/- are not too impressive this year, but the fact is, we often play him like a top-3 D, so he’ll likely want to be payed that way.

1995 - 2000 - 2003

by bergenline on Feb 15, 2011 6:53 PM EST reply actions  

*paid, not payed. ugh.

1995 - 2000 - 2003

by bergenline on Feb 15, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

but is it too much for him if he gets moved to forward? He seems to score a lot.

Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies, 2011

by joshd12 on Feb 15, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I really don’t follow ATL that closely

Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies, 2011

by joshd12 on Feb 15, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve seen comments in places that indicates this Byfuglien contract is heavily back-loaded. In other words, ownership locks him up for now and has him around while they’re trying to sell the team, and the future owners (or whomever he gets traded to in three seasons) is responsible for the bulk of the money.

The two guys I’d compare Dustin Byfuglien to are Tomas Kaberle and Mike Green. Kaberle is in the last season of a five-year deal that averages $4.25 million annually, and Green is in the third year of a deal that averages $5.25 million annually. If those are your “similar players”, I’d say Byfuglien is getting what the market has already dictated, considering that Kaberle’s deal was put into place many years ago and he’ll probably get a bump in salary as a UFA.

As for Andy Greene…. I think the Devils would be wise to shop him and take what they can get for him. I worry about another Johnny Oduya situation if they re-sign him for a few years at decent money (say, $2-3 million per), and I suspect someone will throw stupid money at him on the open market. From everything I’ve seen from him over the years, he’s a nice enough defenseman but not worth nearly that much money.

by acasser on Feb 15, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Koivu’s deal actually wasn’t that bad; it was their overpayment of Havlat in an attempt to replace Gaborik that stung them.

by elesias on Feb 16, 2011 7:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Trade him.

Coming into last season, he wasn’t even expected to beat out Cory Murphy to make the team. He surprised everyone by doing that and being a pretty solid player, but I’ll be very disappointed and surprised if Lou locks him up after letting guys like Nieds, Rafalski, and Martin walk. I think Fayne and Taormina are both nearly as good as Greene right now and Tao certainly has more upside.

Greene just seems to be a guy who has already exceeded expectations under Jacques, maybe the best teaching coach in the game. Under Johnny Mac he was horrible. I know that could be said of most of the team, but it’s a serious concern if he’s re-signed and Jacques doesn’t come back. Get out now, while he’s of value to other teams.

by Matt V on Feb 16, 2011 11:30 AM EST reply actions  

Lou didn’t “let” Niedermayer, Rafalski, or Martin walk. They left for pastures that were greener for reasons other than money. Nieds got to play with his brother, Rafalski got to go home to Michigan, and Martin just didn’t believe the Devils were contenders for the long haul.

by dr(d)evil on Feb 16, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Martin was never formally offered a contract by NJ.

by Triumph44 on Feb 16, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I would love to one day get an idea of what actually happened there.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils

by Tom Stivali on Feb 16, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I still don’t know if I believe that. Didn’t Lou and Martin’s group meet a couple fays before July 1st? Maybe an official offer was never offered because during talks they were in two different areas.

In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
"Hockey is the only job I know where you get paid to have a nap on the day of the game." - Chico Resch

by Matthew Ventolo on Feb 16, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

One thing about Martin – apparently he wasn’t being held back too much offensively by playing in NJ. He hasn’t exactly been piling on the points playing for Pittsburgh.

1995 - 2000 - 2003

by bergenline on Feb 16, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

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