New Jersey Devils Trade Jason Arnott to Washington Capitals for David Steckel & 2012 Second Round Pick
by John Fischer on Feb 28, 2011 4:39 PM EST
in Devils Issues, Views & Analysis
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PrintOk. It's Arnott for Steckel and Caps' 2012 second-rounder.
The move seals a short tenure for Arnott in New Jersey. He was acquired last summer in a trade with Nashville in exchange for New Jersey's second round pick in the 2011 NHL Entry Draft and prospect Matt Halischuk. Based on the initial reports, the only deal that would work trade Arnott, an impending unrestricted free agent in this coming summer, was to take back a player: center David Steckel of the Capitals.
Then as I was initially typing this, it came out that the Devils get Washington's second round pick in the draft along with Steckel. While the Devils have added salary to their cap with Steckel, $1.1 million/year for the next two seasons per CapGeek, I'm thrilled they got a second round pick out of it too. I wish it was a 2011 second rounder, but one for 2012 is just fine with me.
More thoughts on this and a analysis of Steckel after the jump. Feel free to discuss the deal in the meantime.
Just Who Is David Steckel?
Steckel is a big center, he's only 28, and he has a cap hit of $1.1 million/year for the next two seasons. He has not been and probably will never be a point machine. His most productive season came two seasons ago when he put up 8 goals and 11 assists. He currently has only 5 goals and 6 assists this season.
While he is not an offensive player or a big minute player, Steckel has some useful skills. His biggest is faceoffs. Steckel averaged less than 12 minutes on Washington, but he's second on the team in terms of total faceoffs with 670. What's more is that he won 427 of them. That's a winning percentage of 63.7% - the highest percentage in the NHL.
His amazing winning percentage this season is not a fluke. Last season he was second in the NHL with 59.2% of all draws won (out of 1,076); in 2008-09, he was fifth in the NHL with a faceoff winning percentage of 57.3% (out of 886); and in 2007-08, Steckel was tied for seventh in the NHL with success rate of 56.3% (out of 900). The guy is a faceoff winning machine, which is a good benefit to have.
Steckel has been primarily used as a defensive player. While his minutes are low, his quality of competition (0.078) is the second highest on the team at 5-on-5 according to Behind the Net. His Corsi relative to his quality of competition is positive at 0.618, the tenth highest on the Caps. Steckel has one of the lowest quality of teammates on the team, and that's reflected in his -2.121 Corsi relative to quality of teammates - the 21st highest value on the team.
His on-ice Corsi rate is -4.00, which isn't good by itself. It means the puck isn't going forward when he's playing. However, this is mitigated by his zone starts. Steckel starts a majority of his shifts in his own end of the rink.: 41.3% according to Behind the Net. Only Andrew Gordon has started in his end at higher rate than Steckel. Steckel has a zone start difference of 73 more defensive zone starts. Adjusting the Corsi for zone start turns Steckel's Corsi rate positive. 2.31, to be precise.
For those of you who just glazed your eyes over at all of those numbers, let me put it simply. He's an excellent faceoff taker and he's a defensive player who has played against tough competition. I doubt he'll be going up against the toughs. He's only -5 at even strength (16 GF, 21 GA) this season according to Behind the Net. Figure the adjusted Corsi rate in and he hasn't been getting destroyed by the opposition's best players.
On top of this, Steckel has penalty killing experience. According to NHL.com, he's averaged 1:42 of shorthanded ice time per game with the Capitals this season; 2:51 per game last season; 3:48 per game in 2008-09; and 3:46 per game in 2007-08. Interesting that it has gone down in recent seasons, I wonder why? I'm not familiar enough with the Capitals to know for sure. However, he's not completely out of the mix on penalty killing units, so at he hasn't played himself off of that special team.
What Can We Expect from Steckel?
Given that he's awesome on draws, Steckel gives Jacques Lemaire another option at center for important draws at either end of the rink. His past penalty killing experience, while reduced this season in Washington, should be enough to get regular PK work in New Jersey. His PK time will likely remain where it is, since Patrik Elias, Travis Zajac, Brian Rolston, and Vladimir Zharkov have been regulars on that end of special teams. He's not going to suddenly be the first option at forward in a 4-on-5 situation. Just a viable one.
I do think he'll get a chance to play on the third line. While he has been on the fourth line this season in Washington, that he was traded for Arnott allows for a simple swapping of spots. A big center for another big center. A veteran with a mostly offensive skillset replaced by a in-prime player with a mostly defensive skillset. Whether he'll stay on the third line will be determined by whether he plays well with Zharkov and Mattias Tedenby. Can he keep up with them? Can he use his size to support them? Will they mesh? Most of all, can they perform better against competition at evens? If Steckel can help ensure that the third line doesn't get pinned back on a regular basis, then that would be a huge boost for all involved. Except for the opposition, of course.
One possible side effect of the deal that I hope happens is that Jacob Josefson does not suit up for the Devils again this season. With Steckel, the Devils are set at center and have two wingers who can play center if necessary (Dainius Zubrus, Adam Mair). He can go back to Albany, play in all situations and for more minutes in the AHL, and his contract can slide for this season - which is the smart thing to do, in my opinion.
My Overall Take on the Deal
Given that Arnott is an impending unrestricted free agent in addition to being 36, having an injury history, and not enjoying the best of seasons in New Jersey, any return has to be seen as a positive. It's not like today was the Jason Arnott sweepstakes. Getting an NHL center who has valuable skills along with a second round pick in the future is more than a fine return.
However, there is a downside to this deal, and it's not that the Devils still don't have a guaranteed second round pick for the 2011 draft. The fact is that Steckel has a cap hit of $1.1 million/year for the next two seasons on his contract. This is not a big deal for this season, since Arnott's big contract went elsewhere. It's a big deal for the summer. The Devils didn't have a lot of space for this coming offseason to begin with, now they have about $7.2 million left. Sure, they now have one less player to sign. However, trying to re-sign Zach Parise and retain other players is now that much more difficult. I hope there's going to be a few more before the draft to give the Devils some badly needed cap space for 2011-12.
Outside of that rather important problem, I'm fine with the deal made. It'll look worse if it seriously hinders the Devils trying to make the important signings (Parise) this summer. It'll look a lot better if that 2012 second round draft pick turns out to be a NHL player. I'll admit that's a shot in the dark since it could be a late pick unless Washington collapses next season. One last point, Arnott's basically done in New Jersey unless he signs for a ridiculously low salary. With Steckel on the books, and the real possibility of Jacob Josefson cracking the lineup next season.
Your Take
Now that I've laid out what I could find about what kind of player Steckel is, what he excels at (faceoffs), what he doesn't (point production), and other information, I want to know what you think. Where do you expect him to play? What do you expect from Steckel in the remaining 20 games of the season? Do you like the trade (no poll because I want to read reasons)? Please let me know of your thoughts and feelings on the trade in the comments. Thank you for reading.
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It’s a fine deal. Steckel is an organizational need – the team has been using Tim Sestito as a 4th line center, when Sestito clearly does not belong in the NHL. His salary is a touch high, but we only need to sweat that for next year, and plus with the bonus cushion off next year, his salary is not that much higher than Henrique or McIntyre.
2012 is supposed to be a better draft than 2011, so I am fine with the 2nd being from 2012.
what’s going to be really funny is that the Devs will sneak into the playoffs,and eventually end up knocking Arnott and the Caps out. ok, this may be a bit of a pipe dream at this point, but how classic would that be??
I doubt the Caps are going to catch Phailadelphia in the standings
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 28, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
I wish it was a 2011 second rounder, but one for 2012 is just fine with me.
The Rangers’ own the Caps 2011 2nd, via Carolina. It’s still a good deal for a guy that’s one of the best FO guys in the league.
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2012 is going to be a deeper draft more than likely, althought the Caps pick will (hopefully) be late in the second round… ;-)
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by MikeL-Pivonka on Mar 1, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
I actually really enjoy this deal a lot.
Arnott wasn’t doing much for us, at all. Lets be honest we really don’t need Arnott as opposed to a guy like Steckel. He gives us a new John Madden type of player for the penalty kill and being defensively responsible. He also has a better faceoff percentage than Zajac, and better than everyone else in the league to note. That is 2 centers for us that are the top faceoff man in the nhl and the 15th best in zajac. He can help strongly on the PK and give guys like Zajac a break to be able to get a couple shifts off to be more fresh on the pp and even strength. And even if that doesnt happen then we have 2 full PK units that are going to be made damn sure games like the other night (2 goals off the faceoff) wont be happening so easily. Steckel also brings an actual physical presence to the team much more than Arnott.
Overall I feel this trade was great for us as an organization and will help us so much more. Also it is great that we now have a 2nd rounder on top of it, even if it is for 2012, yet I agree considering the 2012 draft should be much more deep than this years.
by AlphaSigDevil48 on Feb 28, 2011 4:01 PM EST reply actions
Great deal – Steckel is a good fit as a third/fourth line center, monster 63.7% FO win percentage, good PKer to give guys like Elias and Zajac a rest, just 28 yrs old, and his salary is minimally greater than guys like Josefson and Henrique. He’s 6’5", a good complement to our smallish forward corps. It allows those two players to develop in the minors, and hopefully Lou will avoid playing Josefson in any more regular season games this year. Lou plugs the hole he creates by trading Arnott and still gets a nice future asset in return.
The guy’s not going to score much, but we’ve been relying heavily on our top two lines to score anyway. He’ll get more ice time with the Devils, I think, and may produce a little more than he has with the Caps after a period of adjustment, but I wouldn’t expect him to ever be more than a 10g-10a kind of guy. Even with his faceoff and PK ability, I wouldn’t bill him as a Madden-type player because he doesn’t seem to have that kind of speed and offensive skill.
Prefer the 2012 Pick
The Devils can use the pick, trade it if they our buyers next year or possibly sacrifice next year’s 1st round pick knowing they have 2 #2’s.
I was happy with just Steckel as he actually gives the team an NHL center on the 4th line. Besides being awesome on faceoffs he played 1:42 a game for Washington on their penalty kill. This can help alleviate some of the need of Elias and Zajac on the penalty kill.
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..
Quick thoughts- Great deal. Steckel is a significant improvement over the bottom 6 guys we have have. The 2nd rounder is also nice- not a 2011 pick, but still a draft pick which we can use in 2012 or sell off later for a quality rental next year if the team actually returns to being good. Plus he’s big. And he saves Kitties from the Pen-Goons.
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 28, 2011 4:04 PM EST reply actions
Everybody:
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by Matthew Ventolo on Feb 28, 2011 4:05 PM EST reply actions
Hooray! We fleeced them!
Great job, Lou!!!
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I really like this trade. Devils get a solid bottom 6 centerman that can help out the 2nd PK unit. He may be out there in tough defensive situations as well. I know $1.1m might sound steep, but it’s really not for the job he has. The 3rd line still has that responsible 3rd line center for Tedenby and Zharkov. He’s 28, and in the prime of his career.
The pick is the cherry on top. It being a 2012 does some help if the Devils are in some cap trouble next season (trade bait) and could even be used if the Devils are in the buying section.
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by Matthew Ventolo on Feb 28, 2011 4:10 PM EST reply actions
As for Arnott – Signs point to him being the 2nd liner. He was used in that sport with Elias and Langenbrunner and really did shine (no one did then). So I guess he’s with Knuble and Sturm? Not bad for them.
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by Matthew Ventolo on Feb 28, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he’ll put up some points. Semin and Sturm would be an improvement from Vladimir “Can’t score in a brothel” Zharkov.
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 28, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
I am really liking this deal
He is a big dude who is defensively aware and great in the dots. PLuse he is the dude who hit Crosby
Crosby looks bummed he has to play against Steckel 6 times a year now.
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by whatjusthappened on Feb 28, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
So is it safe to assume that he will be going by David “The Crosby Killer” Steckel? haha
by Jacob Shepherd on Feb 28, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
He’ll probably take an unassigned number like 13 or Arnott’s old 25.
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 28, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe that was the supposed “disagreement” Lou and Lemaire had?
JL – “He’s good at the dot, defense defense defense!!!”
LL – “Sorry, wears #39; can’t do it”
JL – “But he’s good on the PK, and he’s only at $1.1m. That’s good for your cap Lou!!!!”
LL – “Don’t worry about my Cap JL”
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by Matthew Ventolo on Feb 28, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
LOL
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For the Caps perspective
he was a very popular player with caps fans.
Dave Steckel: 2007-08 Rink Wrap
Dave Steckel: 2008-09 Rink Wrap
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h/t to Natty Bumppo on Japers Rink, who can’t post here till tomorrow
Why the Caps Should and Could Be Trying to Trade Dave Steckel
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I just updated the post with stats and more opinion from me
I really, really, really like the boost at center.
I really, really, really don’t like the added salary.
For a trading away an impending UFA who was likely not to return anyway, I’m fine with the deal.
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what are the options for shedding salary this offseason?
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I don’t get the concern about adding salary, it’s only $1.1m. The minimum we could pay a player to play is $500k, a monetary savings of $600k. The two most probable replacements, without Steckel in the lineup, are Josefson ($900k) and Henrique ($854k), meaning an increase of only $2-246k, which still leaves the $3.6m that was going to Arnott to go toward Parise.
You just aren’t getting very good value for the money.
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by Matthew Ventolo on Feb 28, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
The Devils have 7.2 million in cap space for this summer. They had a little more before the deal. Now they have less.
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by John Fischer on Feb 28, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
And we have to see what Parise wants/will do.
by inmeloutrusts on Feb 28, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Oops that was supposed to be a comment on John’s post.
by inmeloutrusts on Feb 28, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
And less money for Parise plus whoever else the Devils want to retain.
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by John Fischer on Feb 28, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
The money was going to someone anyway, and while I’m not going to sing the praises of David Steckel as some type of savior, he fits the system and his salary is about what we probably would have had to pay for Arnott’s replacement anyway.
This should make the March 18th game more interesting.
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by whatjusthappened on Feb 28, 2011 4:37 PM EST reply actions
SWEET
I didn’t even think about that. Bonus.
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by Michael Gianetti on Feb 28, 2011 8:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
How did you do your adjusted Corsi? JLikens +.8 Corsi events per faceoff win, multiplied by .6 for his faceoff percentage? Or do you have a coefficient on zone starts versus raw Corsi? If so, I’d very much like to see it for future calculations.
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by Knee high to a duck on Feb 28, 2011 4:48 PM EST reply actions
I used JLikens' +.8 for zone start.
I did something like this last summer so all I did was pop in the numbers and calculated it. But here’s the formulation.
First, I got the player’s even strength time from Behind the Net: games played and time on ice/60. (57 GP, 9.74 TOI/60 for Steckel)
Second, I got the player’s on-ice Corsi rate (-4 for Steckel).
Third, I divided the on-ice Corsi rate by 60 and multiplied that result by the time on ice played (GP * TOI/60).
Fourth, I multiplied the zone start difference (DZ – OZ) by .8 per JLikens’ findings and added it to the calculated result in the third step. This is the adjusted Corsi.
Fifth, to make it a rate, I divided the adjusted Corsi by the time on ice played and then multiplied that result by 60.
So that’s how I got 2.31 for Steckel.
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by John Fischer on Feb 28, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Bookmarked and thanks. Nice work. I think it oversells Steckel a little bit because of the implicit 50% assumption in Likens work, but I’ll definitely be using this methodology in the future.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Feb 28, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
The wierdest thing to me is how Vokoun didn’t get traded, not only would Florida have gotten something good back, but now he will most likely just leave in the summer. Pretty stupid.
If you go look at Florida’s page at CapGeek. Their roster for next year (or lack therof) is pretty funny to look at.
Heh. Tallon definitely identified his core and did a good job at gutting the rest. Looks like it will be a pretty busy off season in Sunrise…
They can throw all that money at Brad Richards then and get themselves an NHL player on their team then.
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 28, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that’s true. Though if the Panthers really want to actually get people interested in them, they’re going to have to spend some $$ on good players instead of developing talent and letting them walk (Bouwmeester, Horton, Frolik)
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 28, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Or get traded away to be exact.
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 28, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
They could use all that cap space to take on bad contracts from other teams, so long as they also get picks and good prospects in the bargain. Think about how Atlanta improved themselves last summer by taking in a bunch of ex-Blackhawks.
It won’t be $39 million of players, however. I suspect the Panthers are going to sit right above the salary floor, similar to a number of other “re-building” clubs.
Only one offer, not good enough, according to LeBrun.
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They should’ve taken it. Better trade him off and get something than let him walk for free.
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 28, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Comments on Jaspers' Rink
Reading over the thread pertaining to this deal at Jaspers’ Rink, Caps fans generally thought that Arnott for Steckel straight-up was a nice win for them. But when the addition of the 2012 second rounder was announced, they thought it was a small loss for them.
General consensus on that site about Steckel: His faceoff abilities are far and away his greatest asset. He’s decent to good on the PK, but not great. He’s apparently a poor skater, and has mediocre hands. Conclusion: He is probably worth more like 750K than 1.1M.
From the Devils perspective, we now have a real NHL 4th line center. His faceoff abilities will be appreciated, and it’s nice to have another bottom 6 player who can contribute to the PK. However, we have added another player who performs below the value of his contract. Also, it doesn’t seem that we should be expecting Steckel to slide right into Arnott’s vacant spot. It sounds like a mistake to put a poor skater with very limited offensive skill on a line with Tedenby and Zharkov. We should expect a line shakeup, and we may well see Zubrus moved to center.
Ultimately, I think this is a small win for NJ because of the addition of the 2nd rounder.
by TheTrapezoidConspiracy on Feb 28, 2011 4:52 PM EST reply actions
This is a great day for the NJ Devils - I wanted two things to come out today
Devils move Arnott and get a 2nd rounder - check plus a 4th line center
Dallas hold onto Richards so they can make the playoffs and possible win first round with him - which makes Langenbrunner a 2nd Rounder in this years draft -— CHECK now get Richards back and GET IN and win the first round STARS
by Team First Devils on Feb 28, 2011 5:00 PM EST reply actions
I like the deal. The Devils get the defensive center that can win faceoffs that they needed. It also brings a 2nd round pick that can be very usefull moving forward. The fact that Steckel only makes $1.1MM is also a plus. Some of you are moaning about extra salary, but its not that bad and the Devils should be able to navagate around it easily. Its not like he is a 4th liner making $2MM plus or a guy that scores 20 goals a year that makes $5MM. I think this deal helps us and will allow us to keep the hope for the playoffs alive.
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Devils announce Steckel's jersey number
Get your duct tape Arnott jersey owners. It’s #25.
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I know....
People might be clamoring for Henrique to come up, but I would prefer giving Zalweski a shot. Was slated to be a an eventual 3rd line guy for the Sharks before a poor showing in the beginning of the year. Little more overall experience than Henrique and I don’t think I want Henrique thrown to the wolves on a checking line just yet. He is doing well in Albany, let him finish the season there.
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Well wouldn’t Steckel line be the checking line. 3rd line right now would be an energy/secondary scoring line. I’d like to see Henrique get atleast a couple games. Obviously Josefson is not ready.
I should have clarified that Zalewski should be up for 4th liner type duty.
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I’ve got to add my voice to the Greek Chorus singing the praises of this deal, at least now that I’ve read about Steckel and the type of player he seems to be. Even without the draft pick, I think this was a good “hockey trade” for the Devils, in that they got something they needed in return for an asset that wasn’t performing up to value. With the pick included, it’s simply a good deal.
As to all the cries above about Jacob Josefson, I’m not a big fan of letting the slide year on his ELC dictate whether or not he plays. I don’t see that much of a difference in the one year, personally…. there will still be two more years to evaluate him and his growth, and for all we know he’ll never make it. Past that, I expect the ELC rules will look very different when the next CBA is negotiated, and there might even be some “retroactive changes” made to players whose ELCs started before the new CBA but expired after it.
That aside, I don’t know that there’s really a role for Josefson in NJ at this point. It would be a waste to throw him out there on the 4th line, IMO…. and I imagine Steckel has Arnott’s slot at third-line center by default. If that’s the case, I’d rather Josefson play 20 minutes a night at Albany rather than rot away on the bench, the press box, and at practice in Newark. The simple solution is to return Josefson to Albany, play a third line of Zharkov-Steckel-Tedenby, and leave everything else untouched.
there is just no chance of there being retroactive rules about ELC added in the next CBA.
josefson has looked bad in his time here. i would prefer that he stay in the minors, if at all possible.
zharkov-steckel-tedenby would be brutal, imo – i’d move zubrus off the elias line and make him center those two. or maybe move clarkson up a line and move tedenby up a line. so it’d be something like this:
kovalchuk-zajac-palmieri
rolston-elias-tedenby
zharkov-zubrus-clarkson
pelley-steckel-mair
Rules regarding entry-level players change frequently. They don’t even have to do it directly, but could do it in other fashions — for example, by changing the requirements to attain RFA or UFA status. I suspect there will be a faction within the PA (if only the agents) who will take up the issue where teams are making decisions about who sticks on an NHL roster and who goes back to Juniors based on the ELC and it’s slide years. If you change a definition here or there, and then apply that uniformly across the board, that has the potential to change who becomes a free agent and when.
I agree with you on Josefson. That being said, the only opinion that counts on this one is Lou Lamorello (and maybe Jacques Lemaire).
I could live with your lines as described above…. but I’m also loath to tinker with the Zubrus-Elias-Rolston unit as it stands right now, given how well they’ve played. There’s also the secondary issue that Zubrus is taking a number of the face-offs for that unit, especially in the defensive zone…. and how a change there might impact the team.
they don’t ‘change frequently’. in fact, they’ve hardly changed at all from the previous CBA, when entry level contracts were set as being 3 years in length, and IIRC the slide rule was in place (i don’t have a copy of the 1995 CBA, but i seem to remember this being the case). neither has RFA status changed, for the most part – it has remained the same basic concept for 15 years. my point is that even if they are changed, the changes will not be grandfathered in. the devils have to operate in the universe where playing josefson in 10 games this year means he is RFA and UFA one year sooner. they can’t just guess about the future agreement.
the rolston-elias-zubrus line has slowed down in recent games (as has the rest of the team).
Not to nit pick but if Arnott is a 2nd rounder and a 4th line amazing FO center, I wish this trade went on earlier in the morning and sent that 2nd for brad boyes. Hes on pace for 50 something points I believe, thats pretty good, and way better than what Arnott is.
Bob Corkum
is a player that we got at the 2001 trade deadline who was also slow and pretty much only good on faceoffs. The only thing I can remember him doing is scoring a goal in Game 2 of the Stanley Cup Finals. However, he was only a rental and five years older than Steckel.
While I appreciate the different circumstances, I am as worried as John for next summer even more now.
While I was correct on the team Arnott would be traded to, I understand that for Arnott to go there, the Caps needed to shed some salary too. The pick is really what Lou wanted. So expect Steckel to be packaged with someone (David Clarkson) at trading deadline for prospect(s) and/or pick(s). I just hope we can get a quality goaltending prospect.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
That is if
Lou really wants Parise and Zach wants to stay here. LIke Zelepukin said a while back, I’ve considered the possibility of the Devils without Parise.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
there really is no such thing as a quality goaltending prospect.
by Triumph44 on Feb 28, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
This guy only played 25 games in the NHL before he was dealt. I think he was a prospect and would have been considered a rookie by Calder standards at the time.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
he was a prospect? he was 27. there’s also no way that either side knew that he was any good.
which is precisely my point – there’s almost no way of predicting who is going to be good and who won’t be.
Scouts
if you have faith in them, they can tell you to wait for Brodeur while the team you just traded with takes Trevor KIdd.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
and what of j.f. damphousse, ari ahonen, jason smith, and jeff frazee, and basically every goalie the devils have drafted since 1993?
1st round goalies bust a lot more often than other players.
1st round goalies bust a lot more often than other players.
No disagreement there from me. The Devils scouting staff undoubtedly lost a lot of its magic THN was giving it in the early & mid 90s.
I just had issue with your statement that there is no such thing as a good goalie prospect. My point was that I would rather take a prospect than draft a goalie. But after Marty, and the inaction here, I’m getting the feeling it is like a pride thing with Lou to draft his own star goalie again. But then I don’t want to get into the Lou & pride commentary again.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
what? no, that’s insane. goalie prospects do not move very often in this league for a number of reasons.
A: there is nowhere near consensus on how to evaluate young goalies
B: most organizations have a maximum of 2 ‘prospects’; they really don’t like moving them, especially since they often draft them far too high
C: goalies become waiver eligible long before many of them are nhl ready
so yes, there is almost no such thing as a goalie prospect, and those that actually exist almost never move.
OK
C. is a very good point. And your emphasis on almost is important. But some examples:
Michael Leighton was traded after playing 42 total NHL games over two seasons.
Dwanye Roloson was traded after 70 games.
JS Giguere was traded after 8 games.
Patrick Lalime was traded after 39 games.
So it’s rarer, I’ll give you that. But so are goalies in general.
I will also give you that after the lockout trading goalies seems less likely though I can’t surmise why as of right now. It’s time for me to lace up the skates, 8:45pm game.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
I like that you found examples, but some of them are not great -
A: leighton wasn’t really a prospect, he was a guy chicago used when they were an awful team
B: roloson was 28.
C: gigeure absolutely was a prospect and was dealt, so there’s one.
D: lalime was a hold out.
the first roberto luongo deal is an example of a prospect moving as well. but yeah, in general, goalies just don’t get traded. organizations probably overrate their own guys and probably underrate people in other organizations.
the first roberto luongo deal is an example of a prospect moving as well. but yeah, in general, goalies just don’t get traded. organizations probably overrate their own guys and probably underrate people in other organizations.
To be fair, Mike Milbury was anything but a standard guy when it came to running an organization.
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by John Fischer on Feb 28, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
This doesn't help sign parise?
I’m not too sure why this doesn’t help us sign parise. 3.3 million was freed up by getting steckel… can somebody explain to me or send me a link as to why this wont help us sign parise? (john’s small paragraph is to vague for my lack of knowledge with resigning people)
If we just let Arnott walk or traded him for picks, the Devils would’ve had his $4.5 million off the books for next season. But with Steckel, the Devils take on his $1.1 Mil cap hit, reducing the amount of cap space they have for next season and ultimately for Parise’s extension (and to a lesser extent, Greene’s extension)
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 28, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
not keen on this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steckel is a decent fourth liner & nothing more!
His biggest highlights lately is a nice shoot out goal & the blindside hit on Sid. His stats pretty much suck. However he does have a good face off win%. That is about the only thing. I’m not sure if he can use his size as an advantage or not? I guess we will have to see. I more excited about who we might get in 2012 then Steckel!! I would not be surprised if he will work out in Jersey. Yeah in a way I see why Jason wanted to be traded to a team that is bound for a playoff run. I do not think the Caps have a chance a winning the hole thing. It is sad when we bring a guy back and he is like well were not gonna make the playoffs so please trade me. Early in the season Jason and Patty were the only players doing anything. I would have liked to seen Jason stick around for the long hall of 20 games left.
C'mon
We already know that the Caps are going to the Stanley Cup Finals because they were the road team in the Winter Classic.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
a little head's up
nhl.com and tsn.com are reporting this as a 2011 second-rounder. espn may be wrong. i like this even more, if true. can anyone confirm, somehow?
arnott bailed in my opinion, and failed. with a no-trade clause he had to waive, to boot. i haven’t quit, yet, the devs haven’t, i’m disappointed he has. weak. the 1 loss did it? really? the caps aren’t going too far, either.
love the fact we got a guy to put in his spot, who checks and is great at faceoffs. hits, too. the second round pick, whatever year, is also very nice. i will be at the caps game, boo-ing arnott on our way to the playoffs. can’t wait
taste my blintzkrieg!
I’m excited to see what Steckel can do in Lemaire’s system. The Caps are so offense oriented, and from what I’m hearing Steckel sounds like a good fit in a more defensive-minded team. Lemaire should be happy with this trade and Devils fans should be happy with this trade. I know the salary cap situation looks bad for next season, but I’m not worried about it. What other team that is consistently good (minus the fluke first half of this season) has enough room to fit Parise in? He’s not going to go to a rebuilding team for the same reason Arnott went to Washington. These guys want the Stanley Cup and they want it as soon as possible.
by brodeur on Feb 28, 2011 6:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Lemaire will turn Steckle into the next Bobby Holik. Can ya live with that?
by Alan Wright on Feb 28, 2011 10:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Let’s say he plays like Holik did one year younger. So, Steckel is 28 y/o until March. So, he’ll play like a 27 year old Holik did, in 1998-1999.
I’m liking this Steckel more and more. Once Lemaire has a chance to rip him apart and re-train him, I’ll like him even more.
by Alan Wright on Mar 1, 2011 7:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Before all you GMs decide how Steckel will fit with the Devils let Jacques evaluate him first. Lemaire has the knack for seeing things in guys that others seemed to miss. Arnie and Steckel are about the same size but Arnott’s speed has noticeably slowed over the years. A guy at 28 has more energy than one at 36. I’m sure Lou has looked at where he fits before he made the deal. He’s trying to get his club into the playoffs, not just move Arnott to another team.
Has anyone thought about that Zach might sign a contract that pays him less in 2012 than a year later when Rolston’s $5 million will be off the books? If he re-signs let’s see how the deal is structured. That is why Lou is the GM and we are merely bloggers.
It would be nice if Zach would agree to a one-year deal for less money and agree to the terms of a long-term contract extension to kick in 2012-13 at the same time. The contract extension would have to be announced much later since the league would be doing a cavity search for cap circumvention, but that is one way to handle it if both sides trust each other.
However, I can’t bank on that and a one-year deal would worry me very, very much – I’d take it as a signal that Zach is on his way out.
Steckle the Jeckle get in our Poke ball!
Looking at this deal, from the perspective of resigning parise, it looks like a pretty genius move by Lou. Call me crazy, and feel free to rebuke this opinion, but I feel that this move saves us some dough for salary space next year, we were going to have to shop for a center most likely anyway. Odds are we would have had to bid on a player and got him (or her don’t want to be sexist hahaha) for more than what their value was. A think we saved some cash on this, ala the 4.5 million it took to sign Arnott last year (granted going into this season he was definitly a higher caliber player then Steckle) but you see my point
You folks take good care of David Steckel, y’hear? He’s awesome. And be extra nice to Mrs. Steckel, they’re expecting their first child in June.
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better be late june, we’ve got plans for him for the first few days.
The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed? - Il Duce
by Murdoc on Mar 1, 2011 7:34 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Maybe the other upper Midwestern boys (Parise, Rolston, Chico) will take him out for his birthday to Bada Bing in a few weeks.
That is, if you and Mrs. Steckel sign off on it of course.
by Alan Wright on Mar 1, 2011 7:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What I don’t like about this deal is that we just removed a cog in this Devils push to the playoffs machine. Many could argue that there was nothing wrong with this team to begin with; why touch anything? But what IS good about this deal is that we got a legitimate fourth line center. My only question is who is going to man the 3rd line center position? Arnott was useful in many different situations as well. I think this was a good long-term move but in the short-term, I think it’s going to negatively impact our playoff push.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle
And an added note – the value added for what will be a free agent is something very positive. Excellent job from Lou in getting someone who can be a FO specialist and a 2nd rounder for someone who will be gone next year anyway. But as I stated above, I think this will make it more difficult to get into the playoffs (as if it wasn’t difficult enough).
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle
Lamoriello said Steckel is going to be the third line center and that’s what he got him for. So I’d assume the lines would look like this.
Kovy – Zajac – Palmieri
Rolston – Elias – Zubrus
Teddy – Steckel – Zharkov
Pelley – Mair – Clarkson
by undersuspicion426 on Mar 1, 2011 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting Steckel stat
Steckel has the 2nd shortest TOI/shift of any player in the league with more than 30 GP and greater than 10:00 min of ice time per game with an average shift length of 38 seconds (Zenon Konopka averages 36). I suspect that the Caps often used him in a role to go out, take a defensive zone draw, get the puck going in the right direction, and to get off the ice for a more offensive-minded player, thereby bringing down his average shift time. It’s certainly possible the Devils will use him this way as well.
I’d be very interested to see lines of
Rolston-Elias-Tedenby
Zharkov-Steckel-Zubrus
with Steckel taking the occasional short shift to get Kovy on the ice with Zharkov and Zubrus. The reason for these particular combinations is that you need a guy like Zubrus who has experience playing center to be able to play the center position if the puck comes back into the defensive zone during the shift. To keep Zharkov-Steckel-Tedenby together and bring Kovy on the ice for Steckel could be a defensive disaster.
Practice time
JJ is still up, centering Pelley and Teddy. Steckel is with Zharkov and Clarkson.
I’m not so sure we’ll see a lot of “win the face-off and get off the ice” with him in NJ. He’s a better fit for the defensive style of the Devils.
And for further giggles, JL took slappers and break-away shots on Hedberg today. Moose got pist when JL scored on his first 2 breakaways. He even celebrated a little. Glad to see he’s having some fun coaching again. Not going to get my hopes up for another season, but, ya know, I will.
The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed? - Il Duce
About Steckel’s reduced SHTOI: Caps have tried to be more aggressive on the PK this year, and Steckel lacks the footspeed to make it work best. Boudreau has also been trying to use more PKers (Backstrom, Chimera, Semin, Gordon, and others get a regular PK shift).
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
Hard to argue with the results. The Caps have gone from a 78.8% penalty kill rate to 85.3% this year.
I’ll guess we’ll find out just how slow Stecks is tonight.
they have gotten better, but a lot of that improvement is luck.
i hope the devils don’t use steckel as their top guy. elias is having an elite penalty killing season.
Hard to believe they would, at lest especially in his first game.
Go Devils Playoff Death Watch
"Hope Is a Good Thing, Maybe the Best of Things, and No Good Thing Ever Dies." - Andy Dufresne – The Shawshank Redemption
Go Jets
Worth noting that they’re still 6th in shots against/60 at 4on5 (admittedly all the teams are pretty close together, though). They’ve gotten better by about 5 spots per year since 2007.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
Behindthenet quick link to QoC/QoT/Corsi/PDO/Zonestarts
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Mar 3, 2011 3:15 AM EST up reply actions
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