Who should center Parise?
My First FanPost, sorry if there is something wrong with it
Let's assume for the moment that our top to centers are Travis Zajac and Patrik Elias. Most Devils fans love the chemistry between Travis Zajac and Zach Parise, but I'm going to try and make the case for Elias being Parise's center. First, I'd like to remind people of the 2008-2009 season. Parise and Elias both played on different lines at even strength. However, Brent Sutter had them playing together in all 4 on 4 situations, including OT, and on the power play.
Elias had a great season, putting up 31-47-78 in 77 games. Parise was great as well, 45-49-94. I don't know the stats for 4 on 4 play, but I remember quite well that the Elias Parise combo was very dominant. Also, Parise and Elias had 14 and 12 goals on the power play. Notice that the next season, in which Elias was injured frequently and missed a lot of time, Parise's power play goals drop to 9. I do have stats for OT 4 on 4, but not regulation 4 on 4 and in OT, Parise had 3 goals and Elias had 1. The next season, Parise played with Zajac in 4 on 4 and OT (an interesting change I think few people noticed) and only produced 1 OT goal. So, that's a 7 goal drop without factoring in 4 on 4. Coincidentally, Parise had 38 goals that year, add 7 and he's back to 45.
It's really amazing that Elias was able to put up the numbers he did considering his complete lack of a center. But, it makes more sense when you look closer at how he did it. Of his 31 goals 2 came via empty net, 1 came in OT, 12 on the PP and 2 came as shorties. So, he only scored 14 legitimate goals with his regular line mates.
I think that based on their dominate 4 on 4 play (which I have very little statistical evidence for since I don't know how to get it) and also the growing chemistry between Zajac and Kovalchuk, I think it makes sense for Elias to be Parise's center, they both seem to benefit from each other. What do you think?
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GTFO, WORST POST EVER
But in all seriousness, I think it’s hard to translate any type of special teams into 5-on-5 play. Though I’m sure combining Elias and Parise would yield fine results, I’m going to say I’d rather reunite the ZZ in ZZ Pops (can’t you pretty much just plug in any old guy and that name works?).
It’s not about Zach’s production really that I want it, it’s more about Zajac. TZ was a completely different player alonside Zach than he was this year paired up with Kovy. His points total took a 23(!) point dive without Parise on his left this year. Whether it is just conflicting styles, chemistry, or whatever, it just didn’t function quite as well (though obviously it improved in the second half). I’m confident Parise will get his, but I want that Zajac who we thought was approaching the top tier in the league back.
Status quo.
4-on-4 is not the best method to use for statistical analysis as it’s probably the least common situation after 5-on-3/3-on-5 and 4-on-3/3-on-4. The game is played, in large part, 5-on-5 and so one should look to that more than anything.
I’d rather it be Zajac because he is, for better or for worse, our number one Center and he and Parise will be (hopefully) teammates for years to come, whereas the countdown toward the final game in Elias’ career has already begun.
My reasoning is that the Kovalchuk on RW experiment failed spectacularly last season and I don’t think it had much to do with the coach. ZP and IK should both remain on the LW, and so putting them on the same line is, in my mind, right out.
Either Zajac or Elias make a good Center for Kovalchuk because both are very good defensively, so the questions to be answered are: A) who is a better fit for Zach and B) do we want to break up the Zubrus-Elias-Rolston line that was extremely effective last season?
The answer to A might be worth trying out a few things to see what sticks, and the answer to B might be that we have no choice as we have no 2C after Elias unless Josefson is ready (unlikely).
So, as I see it, the current roster would dictate lines that looked something like this:
Parise – Zajac – Zubrus
Kovalchuk – Elias – Tedenby
Rolston – Josefson – Zharkov
Clarkson – Steckel – Palmieri
"I have an opinion and I know you have an answer, but in all honesty if you don’t know then don’t reply, because my opinion will always be better than your answer….and if you agree then highlight your response unless you don’t know."
Tedenby – 1st line RW
Elias – 2nd line RW
Josefson – 2nd line C
Zubrus – 3rd line C
thats how I’d do it.
I’m not against it, and I’m in way suggesting my offerings would be ideal (because, frankly, looking at them they frighten me a little bit), but I have my reservations about Tedenby on the top line and Josefson on the second line.
"I have an opinion and I know you have an answer, but in all honesty if you don’t know then don’t reply, because my opinion will always be better than your answer….and if you agree then highlight your response unless you don’t know."
Kovy and Zajac/ Elias and Parise
Zajac proved this year that he could help Kovy return to form when he went on a torrid second half scoring rampage. At the same time, we all know that Parise and Zajac have worked well together in the past. Beacuse Kovalchuk is usually “the late trailer” in a play, having Zajac set him up will allow Kovy to score more b/c Zajac is better than Elias.
On the flip side, Zach makes his name by getting to the dirty areas and creating opportunities for teammates and himself. Elias is perfect to play with Zach because Patrik draws the defense’s attention whether he has the puck or not, thereby allowing Parise to have more space to operate. While the defense often expects a pass by Zajac, having Elias play with Zach gives the dual threat (by both players) of a pass or well-timed shot.
Beacuse Kovalchuk is usually "the late trailer" in a play, having Zajac set him up will allow Kovy to score more b/c Zajac is better than Elias.
I think you have it backwards, Kovalchuk’s usually first into the offensive zone and his linemates have to catch up. It’s why he often stops at the point after flying through the neutral zone because he’s usually in a 1-on-2 situation and has to wait for a passing option to come on-side.
Anyway: I think Parise’s style means he’s not particularly reliant on a center to make offense happen. If anything, you may want to ask the reverse: who would benefit the most with Parise? Zajac’s a good choice: peaks in production mostly playing with Parise. More interestingly, Zajac’s shot totals peaked with Parise (185 and 210 in 08-09 and 09-10, respectively); and it dropped to 173 last season. Granted, Zajac didn’t center Kovalchuk all that much until Lemaire set his lineup on the team; but I would go back to what worked really well for 2 seasons as opposed to possibly well for a half of a season to start this one.
Elias, on the other hand, has been quite productive (points, shots, and Corsi) well on his own – even with anchors like Brian Rolston next to him for a good chunk of 10-11. I’d be willing to slot Elias wherever he’s most needed.
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by John Fischer on Jul 7, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I should have put it a different way
I believe Kovalchuk is most effective when he is the late trailer in a play because it allows him to get lost behind the defense. Although he mostly does not do this, having a better player on his line would allow him to take on the role as late trailer more often, thereby allowing him to succeed.
To be the late trailer on a play, Ilya Kovalchuk would need to be paired with someone who will do the puck-carrying for him. I don’t know that Travis Zajac would fit the bill, given Zajac (and Parise) has found a lot of success playing dump-and-chase and/or cycling hockey…. neither of which is particularly conducive to having a late trailer joining the play.
What Ilya Kovalchuk would need to be utilized the way you wish him to is a linemate who will show some “alpha male” tendencies when it comes to demanding and carrying the puck, thus freeing up Kovalchuk to float to desirable spots without the puck on his stick. Either that means someone quick enough to keep up with Kovy and therefore capable of leading the rush on his own from time-to-time or a veteran who likes having the puck on his stick and knows what to do with it. The former might be adequately filled by Mattias Tedenby. The closest the Devils might come to the latter is Patrick Elias…. although that sort of scenario would almost cry out for the return of Scott Gomez if his contract weren’t so awful.
Would these line combos be completely ridiculous? Hasn’t Elias played both LW and RW? Or is having Josefson center Kovy and Teddy too risky?
Parise – Zajac – Elias
Kovy – Josefson – Tedenby
Rolston – Zubrus – Clarkson / Palmieri
Zharkov – Steckel – Palmieri / Clarkson
by undersuspicion426 on Jul 7, 2011 5:26 PM EDT reply actions
I think the problem is that, last season the Elias line dominated defensively against other teams top lines. So, getting rid of that would give the team less options defensively, also we’d have to rely on Josefson to be a 2nd line center, which I think is too big of a burden on him. If he has an incredible breakout season, fine, but no reason to start out that way.
You can slice and dice this so many ways.
I think this post was on the assumption Kovy and Parise are on different lines.
ok how about:
Parise – Zajac – Kovy
Rolston – Elias – Palmieri
Zubrus – Josefson – Tedenby
Zharkov – Steckel – Clarkson
Kovy has said in interviews his RW experiment is over. Kovy and Parise are both natural LWs, and should be allowed to play on lines 1a and 1b.
"What kind of respect do I get? ... Just because I'm a physical player, it's O.K. to come at me and do what you want? Hey, it's a hockey game. It's not figure skating. You know what? I can take a hit and I can give a hit. I don't care who it is. No one gets a free ride out there. I don't get a free ride, and no one gets a free ride from me." - Scott Stevens
by Diesel Statistician on Jul 8, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think a couple of things come into play here. In no particular order:
- Travis Zajac was a substantially better player with Zach Parise on his wing. Whether this is because their styles mesh well, or even because Zach Parise is a “star maker” and Zajac simply benefits from reflected glory…. Parise and Zajac need to be re-united. It has worked, it isn’t broken…. so there’s no particular reason to “fix” it.
- Patrick Elias is the only “center” on the roster who has gotten anything substantial out of Brian Rolston in the last year. (I use “center” a little loosely, here, because Dainius Zubrus did a lot of the “center” work on the line last year). Unless you find a way to unload Brian Rolston on someone else — or alternately find a way to make Rolston a viable 4th-liner and PP/PK specialist playing six minutes a night at even strength — you need to keep Elias and Rolston together. And if you keep Rolston and Elias together, you almost need to keep Zubrus on that unit to handle some of the face-off duties…. unless you want to throw David Steckel out there for that and then swap him off.
- Jacob Josefson and Mattias Tedenby will likely be given some degree of “protected minutes” this season. If they’re going to get spotted against lesser players as often as a coach can arrange so, this would be a sensible landing point for Ilya Kovalchuk. Sure, the line could fall between “messy” and “debacle” defensively, but there’s going to be a lesser defensive line somewhere in the Top 9 with the players we have.
So this is how I’d fill things out, at least for now:
Parise – Zajac – Palmieri
Kovalchuk – Josefson – Tedenby
Zubrus – Elias – Rolston
Zharkov/PL3 – Steckel – Pelley/Clarkson
….
Yes, I think PL3 may well be around here in some form next season. It’s a one-way contract, so there’s no particular savings by banishing him to Albany again. While his skill-set is very limited, there are situations where you’d like to have him on the ice. At the same time, his ceiling isn’t so high that you’ll be doing the franchise a dis-service by keeping him in the press box most of the year.
I’m confused. You said Josefson and Tedenby will be given protected minutes. But you have them on a line with Kovalchuk?
A Kovalchuk-Josefson-Tedenby line would be far stronger offensively and limited defensively. A coach playing the match-up game would try and keep them away from the other team’s best defensive players, which is how I meant to define “protected minutes” in this situation.
As for Ilya Kovalchuk, we saw him double-shifted all over the place last season. He can handle monster minutes, and he likes to take longer shifts. If he’s permitted to continue doing all of that by a new coach, there’s no reason he can’t skate normally with JJ and Teddy while also getting spotted in other locations (on the 4th line, perhaps for Palmieri, or with one of the other units following a PK).
In addition, putting Kovalchuk with the two young Swedes would likely draw (opposition defensive) attention away from the kids and give them some time and space to do their thing on the ice.
ok I see that. Personally I’d like to pair Josefson with Kovalchuk. Since Kovalchuk is going to be here for awhile and Josefson is our Center of the future. Might be good to try and pair them together.
by NJDOhio on Jul 7, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
More than that, Kovalchuk, Josefson, and Tedenby aren’t exactly defensive wizards. Giving them some protection (e.g. lots of offensive zone starts, other lines take on the “toughs”) when possible won’t just allay defensive concerns, but put them in spots where they can succeed wildly. Just like the Sedin twins in Vancouver, as a reference.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jul 7, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d LOVE to see Kovy with JJ too,
For the fun to remember how Jacob got his 1st career point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bjAeckyu9s.
Playmaker + Sniper = goal
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by Elektrostal_Kid on Jul 8, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Lesser Defensive Line
but there’s going to be a lesser defensive line somewhere in the Top 9 with the players we have
Worse than Kovy-JJ-Teddy?
Any line with either of Zajac or Elias as its Center has to be better defensively than Josefson at this point, no?
It’s fun to come up with line combinations but I can’t get to wrapped up in it. Lines get switched around all the time because of injuries, performance, double shifting or game situations. That said, I like Zajak with Parise.
Barring a trade, as far as forwards I think there is only a few minor questions left open. Will Henrique make the team or play in AHL? (I realize I’m in the minority by saying that he will make the big club). Will the Devs carry 13 or 14 forwards? If 14, who?
That’s about it as far as forwards.
my lines
kovi/zajac/palmieri
parise/josefson/tedenby
Zubrus – Elias – Rolston
clarkson/ steckel/ zharkov
fayne/tallinder
larsson/volchenkov
taorminav/ white
I like the post because this is a very important question. Still though, I feel like Zajac should play with Parise as it makes Zajac that much better. I also think this because Kovalchuk needs to play with someone creative in the likes of Elias. Offensively Elias is more gifted than Zajac although both are great, and could set Kovalchuk up many times. Elias also has that creativity that most Devil players lack so I feel like it could be a good fit.
The Parise Zajac chemistry is undeniable. For that reason, I think they need to be together.
Rolston is a less talented Luc Robataille. He only tries hard if he “thinks” he’s being respected. Putting him on a line with Elias had that affect immediately last year. So I would pair Rolston and Elias
Kovy… I think he’s still too used to carrying a team after all those years in Atlanta. I think he works better if he thinks “If I dont score, nobody will this shift” rather than “whoa… I have other guys to pass to?” Better to put him with young legs to keep up with him, and feed on his rebounds.
Parise – Zajac – Palmieri
Kovy – Josefson – Tendenby
Rolston – Elias – Zubrus/Clarkson
Zharkov – Steckel – Clarkson/Zubrus
"What kind of respect do I get? ... Just because I'm a physical player, it's O.K. to come at me and do what you want? Hey, it's a hockey game. It's not figure skating. You know what? I can take a hit and I can give a hit. I don't care who it is. No one gets a free ride out there. I don't get a free ride, and no one gets a free ride from me." - Scott Stevens
by Diesel Statistician on Jul 8, 2011 2:55 PM EDT reply actions
I like the idea of keeping the old man line together if only because I salivate thinking about them matching up against No Defense Gaborik and No Defense B-R$ch.
"I have an opinion and I know you have an answer, but in all honesty if you don’t know then don’t reply, because my opinion will always be better than your answer….and if you agree then highlight your response unless you don’t know."
I have a crazy idea. Now I know a lot of you may not like it but here it goes:
Paris – Zajac – Clarkson
Kovy – Josefson – Tendenby
Rolston – Elias – Zubrus
Zharkov – Steckel – Palmieri
I put Clarky with ZP and TZ because I thought having a guy on their line who throws their body around would help. When he’s on his game he is pretty good at cycling and protecting the puck. It is crazy but would be interesting to see.
Kovy with the sweds looked decent last year. I know they didn’t play a lot but Josefson showed he could carry the puck, however, I will admit that I am not too sure with how he passed.
BR-PE-DZ showed great chemistry at the end of last year. It also got Rolston going and any contribution from him is perfect.
VZ – DS – NP would be a solid energy line for a forth line, with some scoring.
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I put Clarky with ZP and TZ because I thought having a guy on their line who throws their body around would help. When he’s on his game he is pretty good at cycling and protecting the puck.
Parise and Zajac both throw their body around pretty well – especially Zach. Clarkson is pretty good at protecting the puck, but I wouldn’t say he’s good at cycling. He’s a poor passer and he holds onto the puck too long. I don’t think he would add any value to improve Parise and Zajac’s production.
VZ – DS – NP would be a solid energy line for a forth line, with some scoring.
That line wouldn’t score much at all. Steckel’s not a very good offensive player, and while Zharkov is good at forcing turnovers and is smart with the puck, he hasn’t shown the ability to score much yet. Palmieri is highly dependent on other players to get shots at the net – he doesn’t have the foot speed to generate things on his own.
I think there are a lot of good suggestions and rationales here. Some of the themes being repeated are:
(1) Parise and Zajac work exceptionally well together
(2) You could slot Elias in pretty much any position on any line
(3) Kovalchuk, Josefson, and Tedenby all have to be protected to some extent by either playing them with defensively responsible linemates or playing them against weaker competition
I think only acasser mentioned the fact that Kovalchuk eats monster minutes, and it’s also worth mentioning that no coach has ever held him back from playing those minutes. I think, in fact, that the guy NEEDS those minutes (maybe his legs go cold from sitting on the bench) and coaches recognize that he is actually more effective with big minutes than he is with his minutes curtailed.
I’d do the following:
Parise – Zajac – Tedenby
Rolston/Kovy – Elias – Zubrus
Kovy – Josefson – Palmieri
Zharkov/Pelley – Steckel – Clarkson
whereby Kovalchuk takes some of Rolston’s even strength shifts with Elias and Zubrus. This keeps Parise and Zajac together, gives Kovalchuk the big minutes he needs, reduces Rolston’s playing time while still squeezing what you can out of him by playing him with Elias, and leaves the Devils needing to protect only one line (the Kovy-Josefson-Palmieri combination).
And my two cents on the RWers is that Tedenby would work well with Parise and Zajac because despite his size he actually protects and cycles pretty well and has the creative spark that none of the other RWers have. Zajac’s not the best puck-handler or creative passer, and I think putting Palmieri on that line puts too much pressure on Parise to be the primary puck-handler. Tedenby can take some of the focus away from Zach. Palmieri can play with Kovy and Josefson, who can both do the bulk of the puck-handling, and Palmieri would be more free to pounce on rebounds and generate deflections.
I think Zharkov, Steckel, Pelley, and Clarkson all belong on the fourth line and if there were an injury to the top 9 I’d probably be more inclined to call up Henrique rather than promote Zharkov or Clarkson up to the third line.
Im with this
…it only hurts Rolston. The question I would have is ‘Would our new coach be willing to play Rolston just 12-15 minutes a night?’
Rolston will get pk and pp minutes, so we are probably looking at 10 min at es, 2 pk and 2 pp for a total of 14 a night. Meanwhile kovy will probably get 12 at es with josefson and palmeri, 3 pp and 5 at es with patty and zubrus for a total of 20 a night. Parise and zajac would get 16 at es, plus 2-4 special teams.
At evens, line 1 would get 16 a night, line 2 would get 15 a night, line 3 would get 12 a night and the 4th line would probably get about 8 or so.
I think it works out pretty well while keeping combos that work intact.
by dr(d)evil on Jul 10, 2011 5:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I keep seeing Rolston slated as LW; hasn’t he played all three forward positions sometime in his career?
Zajac and Parise should stay together as, lets be honest, there was a reason the line had to be nicknamed. As for whoever plays RW on that line, Zubrus is an option, as he fits in with the cycling/dump-and-chase game the other Z’s play. In addition, Elias, while not an ideal center, is our best playmaker at the moment and, as a few have mentioned, possesses the skills to carry the puck across the blueline. I’ve always felt he is more suited to an off-the-rush game, a la Kovy.
With that in mind, I’d suggest the following;
Parise-Zajac-Zubrus
Kovy-Elias-Rolston
Tedenby-Josefson-Clarkson(or Palms should he stick around)
Palms/Sharky-Steckel-Pelley
The 3rd line worries me a bit, as defensively it could be liable. However, JJ has had a few sterling two-way moments in the defensive zone, and Clarky, for all his faults, at least tries to hustle back. But, I’d at least try out these lines.
I keep seeing Rolston slated as LW; hasn’t he played all three forward positions sometime in his career?
He probably has. Think he actually played mostly RW last season. Even though I think he is listed as a LW. I think he could even scrap it at Center if needed.
Shoot. With the years in the league and time spent on the point on the PP he could probably do ok on D.
kovy zajac parise didnt get much playing time but i think the line is stealer offensive powers
Rolston Elias zubrus
Tedenby Josefson Janson cam needs to protect these young sweds so put him with them to protect the future
Zambranski (or how ever its spelt) Steckel pelly
I vote that Zambranski centers for Parise.
Status quo.
by nyynygnjd on Jul 20, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

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