Devils in the Details- 1/10/12: Delicious Pancakes Edition
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jan 10, 2012 8:31 AM EST
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A Mid-Season Review of the Devils [Devils Army Blog]
Anton Volchenkov may play tonight vs Calgary [NJ.com]
Jacob Josefson will go to Albany for conditioning [Fire and Ice]
Cup Chances are more important for Zach Parise than money. Which means he's definitely not signing with the Rangers [NJ.com]
Kings forward Dustin Penner hurt himself eating Pancakes. Jokes involving this incident have been served on a platter with a side of bacon [PHT]
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Here is the link to that WSJ article.
Man o man. I would not like to be Lou on this one. But I also would rather have him doing this than any other GM in the game.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
His father comes off a bit, oh, I don’t know, Michael Lohan-ish.
by Marty 4 Prez on Jan 10, 2012 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
I was thinking Lindros-like, but yeah.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
Better analogy. Well, hopefully Zach doesn’t let his father take the lead in negotiations, because he definitely sounds like he’s got $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on his mind.
by Marty 4 Prez on Jan 10, 2012 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
It’s probably ill-advised, but reading both of these articles (the WSJ and the Chere report) doesn’t make me very confident that Parise will re-sign.
Why not? Zach makes it clear that he is looking for a team that can win a championship while he’s in his prime and he wants to earn a fair salary for his talents. The Devils will have $19M in UFA salaries coming off the books and $1M in buyouts (Pandolfo/Peters) disappear. The only UFA that will be resigned for more than he’s currently making is Zach. Marty, if he chooses to come back, will take a pay cut and Johan Hedberg would likely take another one-year, $1M contract if he wants to keep playing and if Lou needs him.
So if money isn’t the issue for the Devils, then you think this team isn’t built to win a championship in the next three-to-five seasons. With Adam Henrique and Jacob Josefson coming into their own and bolstering the team down the middle, the sudden emergence of David Clarkson as a 30-goal scorer, the rising stars on the blue line in Albany and the potential of prospects Jon Merill and Scott Wedgewood, how can you not be confident in this team’s ability to return to post-season glory?
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It’s not so much that. JP’s comments just remind me of the Scott Gomez situation, which didn’t end well. I know that was a different situation (with Gomez’s father being his agent and all), but it still bears some resemblance.
I don’t recall everything that Gomez’s father said, but Gomez had already won the Stanley Cup and the Calder Trophy and his father had an inflated perception of what he was worth on the open market. Glen Sather was happy to oblige.
What’s concerning is how this keeps coming back to the Rangers.
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Also ..
If Zach does choose not to re-sign with NJ, that’s a big slap in the face to the organization. Considering what he is saying now, if he didn’t re-sign, he is basically saying “I don’t think you have a realistic chance at winning the cup.”
In a fashion, or it could just be interpreted as their thinking the other team has a better chance. Everyone says they want to win, and I’ve no doubt they do, but they want to do it sooner rather than later AND they want a big payday. They go with the best combination as they see it, like Paul Martin did.
isnt that what paul martin said when he signed with PIT?
by CaramelCoveredXMas on Jan 10, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Who’s Paul Martin?
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Jan 10, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
So basically, JP Parise let’s it slip that at some point Zach wanted to be out of there ‘in a minute’. JP says in the ‘first part of the year’. That can either mean 3 things: (1) the beginning of last season, (which is what Zach claims he was talking about.)(2) the beginning of last calendar year when his pal Langenbrunner got traded or (3) the beginning of this year when the team struggled a bit.
And remember Zach didn’t disqualify the statement JP made, he just corrected the timeframe.
So I ask, if he wanted out when the going got tough (first non-playoff year in 15 years, a friend being traded, etc) is he really someone you want to throw a long term deal at?
Second question: If this was a Russian player and the same quotes came out from player and father…how is the player not given the narrative as a malcontent, quiter, greedy, etc?
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
The WSJ article is on January 6th 2011, so there’s no telling when the author and the elder Parise spoke by phone. It could have been December of 2011.
So, I think it’s (2) the beginning of last calendar year, when the team was still slumping, Maclean had been let go, and Langenbrunner was traded, and Parise had to watch from the sidelines, helpless to control the downward spiral.
Who could look at the Devils Stanley Cup hopes then, in late December 2010 or January 2010 and predict their second-half surge under Lemaire and renewed will to fight? So, I think the elder Parise is expressing Zach’s frustrations/ fears from that time. Jumping ship was probably on his mind. That’s not scary or surprising.
Also, as to (1): Zach doesn’t suggest that his dad was referring to the beginning of last season. The Kovy contract could have given him jitters, but his statement in the article (“"There is no way he meant this year. He had to have meant last year," the 27-year-old Minnesota native said.”) does not suggest that. It can equally be taken to suggest the beginning of the 2011 calendar year.
In any case, those December ’10/ January ’11 jitters were a long time ago… long before Zach rejoined the team, got to know Kovy and Henrique for real, etc.
by Alan Wright on Jan 10, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
"27-year-old who is in the prime of his career"
That’s from the WSJ article. I guess they aren’t aware that players tend to peak at 25.
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2010/1/21/1261318/nhl-points-per-game-peak-age
Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!
Or it could be that you’re just not aren’t aware 27 is the general consensus age for a forward to enter his prime in the NHL?
it’s both, but i have to agree with twilliam that it is annoying to read about 26 year old forwards and people will say stupid things like ‘we don’t know where his ceiling is’.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
Cup Chances are more important for Zach Parise than money. Which means he’s definitely not signing with the Rangers
Listen I have to take objection with this. I hate the Rangers too, but come on now? Look at the standings and how they’re playing vs. how we’re playing and you tell me who’s chances look better?
This statement is equivalent of the Rock crowd chanting “Hey, You Suck!” at team after we score a goal while still down 5-2.
Well it is January! Cmon, he’s just having a bit of fun.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Tom Stivali on Jan 10, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
True, but results from October through mid-April mean about as much as results in July and August in the NHL.
Just ask the Caps, Canucks, and, well, us too since 2003.
by Marty 4 Prez on Jan 10, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
It wont be sustained for long
The Rags will collapse it’s their nature. My concern with resigning Parise is will the whole ownership issue effect Lou’s ability to negotiate or no?
ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda
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I think Zach has made his position clear. He wants to win the Stanley Cup and he wants to earn a fair salary doing it. A $9M cap-hit for 5-7 years would put him in the same range as Evgeni Malkin. If the Devils make a deep playoff run this season, Conference Finals or better, then there’s no way he doesn’t come back. If the Devils can at least make it to the 2nd round and have a good performance, then it should be easy to see that this team can win a Cup in the next few years.
Make no mistakes, Zach wants nothing more than to remain a Devil and win the Stanley Cup in New Jersey. But he needs to be convinced that dream can become a reality. That is Lou’s job, not just for Zach but for the rest of the team and fans as well.
Check out The Crash Line Blog: www.thecrashline.com
A 34 year old Zach Parise trying to generate a forecheck for $9MM a year? No thanks, Malin please.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Tom Stivali on Jan 10, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t say he’d be making $9M at 34, I said he’d have a $9M cap hit. Also, after seeing the way Elias and Sykora play at 35 years old, are you really going to tell me that Parise is going to suck at 34?
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Sykora? Really?
Even the cap hit….no thanks.
Patty/Parise different players/styles.
Not saying he is going to suck, but no way he should have that. Plus, I don’t even think you can have a $9MM cap hit.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Tom Stivali on Jan 10, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
The maximum cap-hit is 1/5th of the upper limit of the salary cap. Since the current upper-limit is $64.3M, the most a single player can make is $12.86M. Note that this isn’t the max that their cap-hit can be, it is actually the limit a player can earn in salary in a single season. As J.P. Parise pointed out, Brad Richards is earning just under this limit.
I don’t think it’s unlikely that if Zach hits the UFA market that a team won’t offer him a 5-year $45M deal.
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Someone will offer him AT LEAST a 12 year 78 million dollar deal which will pay out the majority of the 12-13 salary as a bonus so he is protected in case the league locks out. If he wants the money, it’s going to be there. I’m not sure it will be there from New Jersey.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
Good thing we don’t hand the Cup over to the team that leads the NHL standings half-way through the season.
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I think the biggest obstacle in his eyes is do we have the goaltending to win it all. Has someone emerged? On the flip side it’s been proven that you can win a Cup with mediocre goaltending or “good enough” goaltending.
I don’t think Detroit, Anaheim or Chicago had great goaltending, but still won.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
I’m a bit conflicted with Parise. He’s obviously a great player capable of getting into 40/100 territory, and that’s stats that could get you $45M/5 years.
But this year, he’s been putting up numbers that relate more to maybe a $4-5M annual salary. Removing last season from the mix, ZP went 4 years with 30+ goals, amassing 146 goals in those 4 years. Now, half-way through the season, he’s got an abysmal 14 goals, and 3 of those goals were empty netters (he only padded his stats with 6 over those 4 previous years). Sure he plays hard every night, but when you’re getting paid a lot to produce results, you need to produce those results.
Sure, Kovy only has 1 more goal than Zach, but he only has 1 ENG. And he’s got three of the most important kinds of goals: game winners (versus zero for Zach). He’s got that sick move in the shootouts, but even there he hasn’t been our best skater (6 of 9 versus Kovy’s 6 of 7). He’s 8th on the team in shooting percentage at a meager 9.8% while being second in shots per game.
So I’m worried in several ways with Zach’s upcoming UFA status…He’s a great two-way forward, but can he return to his superstar results? Is he going to get a gigantic contract from Lou and then continue to put up meager stats? I can’t help but get the feeling that he’s going to take the money and run and become a dud in the Scott Gomez sense (which wouldn’t be the end of the world).
Unless Zach puts up something like 25-28-53 to finish the season with a respectable 39-49-88 stat line and some game winners, can anyone really be comfortable with the thought of Lou giving him $7M+ long term?
Brad Richards’ career high for points in a single season is 68. His career high for goals is 28. The Rags are paying him $12M this season. Salaries don’t always correlate to offensive production.
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Richards has 2 90 point seasons and 6 70+ point seasons. I don’t know where you’re getting your information. I don’t care much about points either, but I am pretty confident that Brad Richards will outpoint Zach Parise.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
28 goals, yes. But he’s reached 91 points twice in his career.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/r/richabr01.html
And we all know, the Rags like nothing more than to overpay players. Just ask guys like Valeri Kamensky, Scott Gomez, Chris Drury.
by Marty 4 Prez on Jan 10, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
What, no love for Wade Redden?!? From what I remember, after the Rags signed him to his insane contract and sent him to Hartford, it was reported that Redden was the highest paid AHL player in the history of the league. I’m almost positive that was the case when it happened (and this was 2010), so it may still be the record holder for that statistic.
Deadspin
The NJ Devils -- Jersey's Team
I can’t believe I forgot that easiest of examples. There’s also people like Holik, Fleury, Bure, Rucinsky, and Lindros.
by Marty 4 Prez on Jan 10, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
What makes Parise so good is not necessarily his numbers but more his 2 way game, especially in comparison with Kovalchuk. Though I’m a bit concerned with him getting older, he’s great because his game relies on high intensity every shit.
Overall, I think Kovalchuk will make a difference by getting older, he’s got more pure talent in shooting, passing, skating and gets the spirit of a true clutch player, otherwise Parise’s better in every other aspect of the game.
i would give Parise a $7.5M cap-hit and nothing more.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 10, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like I forgot an “f” somewhere, apologies.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 10, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Could He Go To Detroit?
A few things have me pointing to Detroit:
1) The comment about money being important, but also factoring in the desire to have a chance at the Cup. Lots of players take less from Detroit for that chance every year.
2) Close to home.
3) Lots of cap room, even more if Lidstrom retires.
I really really really hope he signs with the Devils, but I don’t think we can afford a $9 million cap hit.
I could see Detroit as a possibility. Although, I would think Detroit would be in the market for a stud defenseman before they worry about Parise. They don’t really have a plan in place to replace Nicklas Lidstrom, but they do have a couple of terrific two-way forwards (such as that Datsyuk guy). All-in-all, I think the Red Wings are far deeper up front…. and that seems to me to be a recipe for spending on the defensive unit.
I hope he remembers what happened to players like him that left the devils. Like Gionta and Gomez, they thought they were going to be the key factors that would lead their “team with a better chance” to the cup, and well we all know how thats going.
"Its the letter D"
by Rory B. Bellows on Jan 10, 2012 1:09 PM EST reply actions
Sure, but you can’t honestly compare a Brian Burke team to a Pierre Gauthier team, can you?
After all, only one of those guys willingly accepted Gomez and his albatross contract in trade.
by Marty 4 Prez on Jan 10, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
See my post just below, but the players who left for glory or money (MacLean, Holik, Gomez, Gionta, Martin) failed to find success after leaving New Jersey. Several players who let go by Lou (Lemieux, Sykora, Madden) or left for family (Niedermayer, Rafalski) won Stanley Cups after playing for the Devils.
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Indeed. However, it’s just the illusion of an apparent pattern and does not mean that his doing one or the other guarantees those results.
I agree that the results create an illusory pattern. In general, players who play for a big payday fail (Bryzgalov) and those who remain for the love of the game and the team succeed (Elias).
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Elias has won absolutely nothing since staying. He’s been to the 2nd round once. C’mon now.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
Since staying? By staying do you mean resigning? I hope so, because I seem to remember a goal Elias assisted on in double overtime that won the Stanley Cup. I wouldn’t say “Elias” and “has won absolutely nothing” in the same sentence.
Deadspin
The NJ Devils -- Jersey's Team
I think he means when Elias resigned with the Devils before 2006-2007.
by Marty 4 Prez on Jan 10, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
It wasn’t all Niedermayer, although that certainly helped the Ducks. Chris Pronger practically fell into their lap after one season, and the Ducks were able to obtain his services from Edmonton for nothing of any significant value (a young Lupul was the best part of that deal, and it took three more trades and playing with Phil Kessel to bring out what you see now).
Don’t forget Paul Martin in that mix as well.
On the flip-side, Brian Rafalski left for the Red Wings and won the cup there. That’s a very different story though as he grew up there and his life-long dream was to play for the Red Wings. Lou never had a chance of keeping him in New Jersey. Also Scott Niedermayer left for Anaheim and won the cup there, but he was filling his dream of playing in the NHL with his brother, Rob.
So the moral of the story is, leave for glory and get burned, leave for family and find success. That’s why I think if he goes anywhere it could be the Minnesota Wild…
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I still can’t get over the statement JP made about Zach being willing to get out of NJ “in a minute”. Major blow to my heart : (
Deadspin
The NJ Devils -- Jersey's Team
To clarify, I know that statement was in reference to a time different than now, but it still hurts to hear that no matter how bad the team was struggling. What about players like Rick Nash, Jarome Iginla, Shane Doan, etc., all of whom have struggled with clubs going through tough times. I’ve never heard them say something like that.
Deadspin
The NJ Devils -- Jersey's Team
Exactly. If one season out of the playoffs has you thinking like that….what would happen if (gasp) the Devils missed the playoffs three years in a row.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
True. This whole situation and its outcome will be very telling of all of the key elements when all is said and done.
NJallday – funny you should mention Nash. Here is an article speculating a trade with him involved, and I must say, I prefer his response to Parise’s.
by SatanicStickholders on Jan 10, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
He’d have every right to leave if the team missed the playoffs 3 years in a row, and I wouldn’t blame him. Would you if he were on one of the 29 other teams?
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
Be that as it may, I’m not sure that’s the point they’re trying to make here. It’s like breaking up with someone after having your first argument. It’s a little over-the-top dramatic and uncalled for.
Zach has, by no means, experienced true struggle in this league. A couple of first round exits are tough to deal with, but this isn’t the Red and Green Devils either. Perspective.
by SatanicStickholders on Jan 10, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
The Devils have missed the playoffs 8 times in 30 seasons. From 1983 to 1987, their first 5 seasons in New Jersey, they missed the post-season and were pretty bad. Then Lou took over as the GM and from 1987 through 2011 the team missed the playoffs three times (1989, 1996, 2011).
Missing the playoffs may be the norm for some franchises. When the Devils miss the playoffs it represents a deeper problem with the team. I can’t fault anyone for being deeply concerned about the future of the Devils and/or Lou’s ability to continue to manage the team.
Those fears however should have completely dissipated by now.
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Those fears however should have completely dissipated by now.
Indeed.
by SatanicStickholders on Jan 10, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
If he is a free agent, that’s fine. If Parise was privately thinking I need to get out of here after one year (one in which they did almost make the playoffs) not sure I want that player on 7-10 year deal.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
It was a horrendous year, though. It wasn’t just a year where they missed the playoffs. Nor did the Devils ‘almost make the playoffs’.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
They were 3 games out in mid-March before they ran out of gas. That’s close, especially considering where they were.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
I don’t think there was ever a time last year (besides the first month of the year) where they had a 10% shot to make the playoffs. They were 3 games back, but they were also like 4 teams back, which is really difficult to overcome that late in the year.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
True
But another way to look at it is the Devs have had 3 bad months in over a decade.
They’ve had some pretty awful months in otherwise very good seasons. One example would be December 2005 — the team lost 11 of 15 (two in OT and one in a shootout), changed coaches, and had some roster chaos.
What the Devils did last season is string together a couple of those bad months into a very condensed period of time. Teams often survive one really bad month, sometimes two…. but when you stink up the joint for half the season it can be awfully hard to recover into anything resembling respectability.
But the sentiment – as ascribed to him by his father – did not refer to mid-March.
It more likely referred to late December 2010/ early January 2011. Team was worthless, coach had been fired, Lags had been traded, Parise was sidelined, and Lemaire hadn’t engineered a stunning comeback.
The feeling may well have dissolved by March.
So the going got tough and Zach wanted to get going.
Team was worthless, coach had been fired, Lags had been traded, Parise was sidelined, and Lemaire hadn’t engineered a stunning comeback.
The Devils have had one bad season in his career. ONE.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Tom Stivali on Jan 11, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Do you honestly feel betrayed that?
It’s an emotional state attributed to him by his father, but there is no specific confirmation of it. Rather, ZP simply clarified that when his father was speaking of his son’s emotional state, that the father must have been referring to an earlier time. I believe it was January 2011. He does not specifically confirm that the sentiment was accurately conveyed, or even to what extent it existed at all. It’s possible his father was harping on ONE of the parts of the discussion.
Even so, if anything it’s a normal human reaction as fed by frustration, anger, and fear that was expressed in an off-the-record discussion with his father. It’s understandable that a player with as much passion to win as ZP has could respond that way.
I wouldn’t want hockey players to be so loyal – like fans – that they are insane and oblivious of the reality of how their team is faring. And I wouldn’t want a hockey player on “my” team who wanted anything less than the passion, drive, and integrity as displayed by ZP. A consequence of that passion is that there are times he might put his personal desire to win ahead of a sense of outright loyalty to the team, so that it can win. It’s a balancing act.
I trust Zach Parise has the integrity to make the right choice for him, and I believe that will be the right choice for the NJ Devils organization.
Zach wasn’t really a part of the team last season thanks to his knee injury. He had to watch the team he plays for completely fall apart while he sat in the press box. I’m not surprised that he didn’t feel like sticking around at that point. I don’t need to reiterate how bad things were for Parise 365 days ago.
Also, it’s important to note that Zach never said those things. He conveyed them to his father in private and then his loudmouth of a father who never won the Stanley Cup and wants to live vicariously through his son’s success decide to share those views with the media.
If you think Rick Nash and Jarome Iginla have never told their wives ‘boy it would be nice to play for a team that could win the cup’ then you’re kidding yourself. These guys all have those thoughts, but no one would share it in public because it ostracizes the fans and turns you into the poster-boy for the team failing. But, these guys do think these things. Just look at Ray Borque leaving Boston for Colorado.
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by Alamoth on Jan 10, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also, it’s important to note that Zach never said those things. He conveyed them to his father in private and then his loudmouth of a father who never won the Stanley Cup and wants to live vicariously through his son’s success decide to share those views with the media.
Yes, Zach did say those things. He confirms the sentiment, but questioned the timeline.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
Nobody is upset at Zach for coming out and saying those things because we’re all aware it was his dad. With that in mind, the question I keep asking myself as an outsider is “How much is Parise encouraging his father to speak out on this issue?”
Even when players leave NJ after not being offered as much money as they felt they deserved, I don’t remember anyone ever talking badly or acting as if they were disrespected by Lou. Maybe Parise has all the respect in the world for Lou, maybe Lou has never done anything to anger Parise and has treated him with 100% of the class, dignity, and respect he deserves. I have no reason to think the situation is otherwise. So it leaves me to wonder what avenue Parise could possibly pursue that would allow him to make an exit path from NJ that would allow him to leave without burning as much of a bridge with Lou. Parise is a classy guy too, and a father will always be on his son’s side, so I wonder if Parise allowed his dad to say such things in an effort to get the word out without having it be the slap in Lou’s face that it would have been had Parise been the one who said it.
As Devils fans, this scenario is even more unfortunate to consider because of what we went through with Scott Gomez. Was Gomez as big of a deal as Parise, and was his dad as reluctant to say good things about NJ as JP? No, but this is still a situation where I can’t help but wonder if the player (Parise) is allowing and/or encouraging his father to speak out so that the process could be started and potential offers examined as quickly as possible and without disrespecting the organization that just made him Captain.
Bringing up things that player say to their wives is a completely different story and has no place here. Nobodies wife has gone out and done an interview with a nationally publicized media outlet and answered questions regarding their husband’s impending free agency. I’m sure that TONS of players in the league, and every player on Columbus, goes home and complains about wanting to be traded to their loved ones/friends every week. It’s a lot different when the situation like the one posted about today happens.
Ray Bourque leaving Boston for Colorado? This is nothing like the Parise case we’re dealing with. Bourque spent 20 seasons giving his heart and soul to Boston. He then went to a cup contender in Colorado for two seasons and won it all. Of course players want to win the Stanley Cup and will always have regrets if it doesn’t come to fruition. Just look at Jeremy Roenick on TV for 5 seconds after each year’s Stanley Cup is awarded. But Bourque waiting for 20 years and Parise wanting out at the age of 27 are polar opposites of situations.
Deadspin
The NJ Devils -- Jersey's Team
Well I guess there’s only one thing to do
"Its the letter D"
by Rory B. Bellows on Jan 10, 2012 2:20 PM EST reply actions
Yes.
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Those of you who havent seen it Tom Gulitti posted a tweet that had zach say he’s always wanted to stay here and nothings changed. I believe this will get done
by Devilsfan4life! on Jan 10, 2012 5:14 PM EST reply actions
This has to be the devil in the details with the most comments.
"Its the letter D"
by Rory B. Bellows on Jan 10, 2012 7:11 PM EST reply actions
Dustin Penner for the rest of his life?
by Marty 4 Prez on Jan 10, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
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