When the Devils stopped being able to roll 4 lines
There's been a lot of noise lately about the 4th line. The 3rd line has gotten the most attention and will continue to, even after the Ponikarovsky trade.
The difference between the teams in the East above the Devils is their offensive depth (I am punting on the D in this post). Right now, the Devils, after 2 lines, can't match most teams ahead of them. After the All-Star break with Zajac back and Poni now on the team, the Devils should have 3 deep lines and be able to better compete and improve their abysmal record against these teams.
However, after the 3rd Bruins game and noting how the B's 4th line was the catalyst in their win, I wanted to look back at the Devils' history.
To many old timers like myself, we kind of got used to listening to so many announcers saying "New Jersey's strength is that they can roll 4 lines."
When did this stop?
Not surprisingly , we start to see a deterioration after the 2001-02 and 2002-03 seasons, and they won the Cup in the latter. In 2002, the Devils had Madden, Pandolfo, and the young upstart Brian Gionta, but also veterans like Nieuwendyk, Nemchinov and Kamensky. In the last Cup year, the Devils still had Madden, Pandolfo, Brylin, T. Stevenson, with rotating guys, notably catalysts like Marshall and Rupp.
Then, the next year, in 2003-04, the 4th line seems to disappear. Marshall's magic is gone. Rupp is traded. Eric Rasmussen, Jan Hrdina and Viktor Kozlov appear. While the latter two had decent NHL careers, they were not with the Devils.
After the strike, in 2005-06 the rotating fourth liners included Cam Janssen, Jason Weimer, Rasmussen, Kozlov and Marshall.
2006-07 - Rupp & Dowd returned, Rasmussen & Clarkson now, while 2007-08 had Rupp, Asham, Pelley & Clarkson.
Then, a lifeline and uptick. In 2008-09, I think this team had the most potential. If the Devils got past Carolina, I think they would've really done something. NJ was pretty deep and if memory serves well - they were healthy. The 3rd & 4th lines included: Clarkson, Rolston, Madden, Shanahan, Pandolfo, Holik & Rupp. Many veterans who weren't at the top of their game, but who knew their rolls well enough.
Then disaster. The 2009-10 lower forwards: McAmmond, Pelley, PL3, Zharkov, and an aging Pandolfo (how could I forget Ilkka Pikkarainen?)
The lost season of 2010 - 11 had a lot of younger players rotating. And now we have Boulton, Carter & B. Mills with a rotating Albany bunch again.
The Devils depth woes were due to the aging and inability to replace what Pandolfo, Madden & Brylin did for the team. Then, when Gomez & (more importantly) Gionta left and the Devils received nothing for them, it affected depth even more.
So I see two falls from being able to roll 4 lines effectively, in 2003 and 2009. The Devils upgraded in 2009, but fell again notably with Gionta and Madden's departure with Pandolfo's aging.
So what can the team do from here?
If I were Lou, I would try to play a NHL version of Moneyball in February. If the Devils stay healthy on offense, Lou may have locked up the top 3 lines with the Poni trade. Nice job.
But I now look at the fourth line and see the need to add a veteran or two, like a Nemchinov or T. Stevenson type of player. A guy who will help the locker room and know their role. If arguments could be made to pay spark plugs/ locker room personalities more, this one by Adrian Dater is one of his best. This article is excellent and worth your time . . . but how do you measure a locker room personality? If it can be figured out, it seems that skill can be bought cheaply. But what veteran out there can be obtained cheaply?
How about a guy like George Parros? He grew up in New Jersey and went to Princeton. He has brains, would be a great locker room addition and could be that 4th line catalyst we're looking for from a team who will undoubtedly be sellers. Don't let the Canucks get him. Maybe we can even give the Ducks Kurtis Foster back?
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Nice analysis.
I really think that if we want to be able to roll four lines, we do need to acquire another veteran. That is something that we are missing on the team, a veteran presence. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of the oldest forward on the team. Perhaps it is Elias? It is always an important person to have on the team, as they provide leadership qualities. Yes, we have many great leaders on this team in Parise, Elias, Kovalchuk (He leads by example somewhat), and we have older fellows in Sykora and Zubrus, as well as Elias. But something that we are lacking is somebody who I would think of as a grizzled veteran, who can really help develop some of our young players. We have gone through a youth movement, and we now have a lot of young players on the team, but I don’t think we still have the veteran that we need.
Funny, I actually just watched “Moneyball.” The main thing I took away from that movie was that people have incredible confirmation bias problems. The A’s found that getting on base was the most important stat, I think getting shots on net is a parallel to that. So, what if we defied conventional wisdom of the tough hard hitting 4th line, and played a line comprised of Tedenby Josefson Zharkov?
I’d much rather have that than the plug line of Boulton, Carter/Mills and Janssen.
Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
Everyone has more goals than Scott Gomez
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jan 22, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Then our forwards will be the softest bunch ever. Plus, you don’t know how that will affect the development of Ted and JJ.
Soft forwards who have skill are going to beat up on plugs who can’t skate. Plus they’ll stand a better chance against the other team’s top line when they decide to try and get a mismatch.
Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
Everyone has more goals than Scott Gomez
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jan 23, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. The Boulton – Mills/Carter – Janssen line gives me night terrors.
by SatanicStickholders on Jan 23, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
I take softness over “total liability on ice”
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 23, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
From having read the book and from having reviewed countless interviews with Billy Beane on the subject, most people have the wrong takeaway.
The A’s found that getting on base was the most important stat
What the Athletics really found was that at the time OBP was not properly valued by the market — most GMs paid more attention (and dollars) to batting average and far less to OBP. Since 2002, that’s changed a fair amount…. and Billy Beane has switched his focus (and his limited budget) towards fielding and speed at different times.
The “Moneyball” idea is really to find what the market has undervalued and to invest heavily in it before said value adjusts back to “normal”. One could draw parallels to how many savvy stock brokers work, in that they’ll invest in markets that are undervalued or stocks that are outperforming their sale price for one reason or another.
Why can’t we just get gritty forwards on the 4th line that can play hockey? Is that such an impossible feat?
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis
They play on our third line.
We need the 4th line for energy
I’m not going to lie to you. It felt good and I’m going to do whatever is in my power possible to stay there as long as I can. - Petr Sykora on playing on a line with Elias and Parise.
A good article. At the same time, I think this downplays the impact of a salary cap system and how it changes the dynamics of team construction.
In short, it is significantly harder to keep a substantial collection of talent together when you don’t have unlimited resources by which to compensate them. If players on the lower lines are of such high quality, other teams will invariably offer them money that their original club cannot hope to match (without making sacrifices elsewhere).
Everyone makes such a big deal over the Bruins’ 4th line, but does anyone really think they can keep that group together for much longer? I look at CapGeek’s page on the Boston Bruins, and I don’t see any possible way for the Bruins to keep most of them this summer. Now, if the Bruins can replace those players from within their own minor league system and not have a drop-off, that’s terrific for them. I just don’t know how possible that will be.
The moral of the story: Those teams that are successful, those teams that are deep and talented…. they’re the ones who get raided by other teams, especially in free agency. We saw this happen to the Chicago Blackhawks after their Cup win, and I imagine we’ll see some of the same this summer in Beantown as the Bruins’ complementary players are offered raises by teams who believe those guys can be substantial contributors in greater roles if they’re given the chance.
So what you’re saying is that the B’s have been able to keep them together for 2 possible back-to-back Stanley Cup seasons. I’ll take that anyday.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
Acquire Parros when we have Boulton and Janssen? Does that make any sense? Who says Parros is a better locker room guy than those two?

George Parros’s mustache alone has more locker room presence than Boulton and Janssen combined.
I hope to join Claude Lemieux in Hell one day for a beer....
Only problem is the “No Facial Hair” rule will make him look like a normal person not the mustache of awesomeness.
Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
Everyone has more goals than Scott Gomez
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jan 23, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
the team should make an exception
"Its the letter D"
by Rory B. Bellows on Jan 23, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
How did I never know the Devils had a facial hair rule? When did Lou become the Marge Schott of the NHL?
5 minutes in the box for me.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
George Steinbrenner had the same rule for his team, so it can’t be an entirely bad thing. If you take away the decade (or so) when Steinbrenner was “virtual GM” and spending crazy money on free agents (sorta like the late Al Davis), his franchise was the standard by which you’d want your team to live up to when it comes to success.
Pat Burns didn’t get an exception; neither would this fourth liner.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jan 23, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
The 4th line is a joke
Boulton and Cam are useless overall.
Need a big upgrade there.
The Devils have won more titles than all Philly pro sports teams combined in the last 25 years
by Real Big Devils Fan on Jan 23, 2012 4:10 PM EST reply actions
When will we ever upgrade our 4th line? I mean it’s not like we fight a whole lot anyway (with the exception of when we play rivals, which is a given)…. Is it necessary to have an entire fourth line made of enforcers with absolutely no brains or skill? I like wolfcaster’s 4th line. They may be soft but can at least create some offense….
"Don't mess with the Devil buddy, were number one, we beat anybody! WE'RE THE DEVILS! THE DEVILS!"-David Puddy
If you read between the lines, this screams getting at least something for Parise if he’s gone. Because Poni will be gone too.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
Why make us read between the lines? Why not just scream it?
Anyway, yes, the fourth line players have been pretty bad. The issue is that this is the norm in the NHL, as Derek Zona rightly pointed out last month. As much as everyone gushes over Boston’s fourth line (for production, I assume because they suck ice pretty hard in possession), they’re the exception and not the rule.
I feel the the 2009-10 team had the right idea when they settled on McAmmond (who could still play at age 39), Zharkov (who could play NHL hockey well except at shooting), and Pelley (fringe player). It took a while to get there, but they did eventually. Since then, it’s been goons and “energy” guys who aren’t all that adept at things like offense, defense, passing, puck control, or even hitting. The key to having a good fourth line seems simple to me: get NHL players who can still play NHL hockey. The issue is that people look at toughness, “good guys in the room,” etc. and figure that’s the way to go until one realizes the actual hockey skill is an issue. It’s really backwards: get guys who can actually contribute and if they’re big, mean bruisers who follow coach’s simple instructions well and can crack a joke or whatever, then so be it.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jan 23, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
One of the problems is that we have been scraping the bottom of the barrel to fill our fourth line, as opposed to spending some money (which we don’t have a lot of if the NY Post is to be trusted) or trade some assets to get a player and try to keep him.
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis
One of the problems is that we have been scraping the bottom of the barrel to fill our fourth line
No we didn’t and that’s where the problem is. The day Pete Deboer will give our best 4th liners a fair shot we’ll be able to fix our lack of NHL depth perhaps.
Players buried in Albany better than Boulton, Janssen : Vladimir Zharkov, Steve Zalewski, Nick Palmieri and Mattias Tedenby (both for a needed seasoning indeed).
Like Triumph said, there is a chance IF Travis comes back that Janssen will be sent down when our line-up will be healthy.
Jeez, a line with Josefson, Zharkov, Carter, Zalewski, Palmieri or Tedenby would be all over a lot of 4th lines.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 24, 2012 5:33 AM EST up reply actions
4th line has not helped all season
How many goals has our 4th line scored this season compared to how many they have allowed? It can’t be a pretty sight.
And let’s not count the times when a player like Parise, Kovy or Clarkson was on the 4th line double shifting.
The Devils have won more titles than all Philly pro sports teams combined in the last 25 years
by Real Big Devils Fan on Jan 24, 2012 2:27 PM EST reply actions
And let’s not count the times when a player like Parise, Kovy or Clarkson was on the 4th line double shifting.
I think this was a somewhat stupid idea, myself. Instead of double-shifting your stars with the fourth line where they aren’t likely to accomplish anything positive, why not double-shift them with the third line and drop one of the third-line forwards to the fourth line? I figure Kovalchuk (or Parise) is more apt to produce something with Josefson and Clarkson/Ponikarovsky than he is with Mills and Boulton…. and if that means putting Clarkson/Ponikarovsky with Mills and Boulton for a shift, so be it.

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