Lou needs to make a move on defense fast....
by andy6637 on Jan 23, 2012 7:10 PM EST
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With Tallinder on the shelf for most likely the rest of the regular season, Lou needs to make a move for a defenseman. I understand Greene is coming back very soon but with all do respect is he really much of an upgrade? I know he's an upgrade as far as filling a spot on D is considered but he hasn't been good this year. Our defense has been inconsistent/mediocre at best this year. I hope losing one of our top defensemen for the whole year finally sparks a move to be mad to strengthen up the D.
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Just for Greene : he was fine defensively and had 9 assists in 23 games.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 23, 2012 7:31 PM EST reply actions
Ok, I was a little too quick to judge on Greene....
but still we need an upgrade, even if it’s a veteran 3rd pair defensemen…
"Don't mess with the Devil buddy, were number one, we beat anybody! WE'RE THE DEVILS! THE DEVILS!"-David Puddy
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The Devils have been picking up these sorts of players just about every year down the stretch and just about every year they haven’t worked out the way Devils fans imagine when they hear about the trade. I’m convinced now that you can’t just plop a defenseman down with 10-20 games left in the season and expect him to play to the level that he was playing at for another team.
I don’t expect a 3rd pairing guy to be better than Matt Taormina, and I see no reason to push him to the edges of the lineup.
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but still we need an upgrade
Definitely, that’s unlikely to happen in my opinion though
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 24, 2012 5:05 AM EST up reply actions
i agree we need an upgrade on D still, but just to add on greene: was even +/- when basically was minus at the start of the season. if we can’t afford it, hopefully greene provides some needed stability.
He was minus -3 on his last 4 games, I just mean that overall, he brought a well needed stability to the defense.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 24, 2012 5:08 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think the Devils will be making a move for defense. There’s not much available and what’s available for a reasonable price is not much better than what NJ has got now.
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Agreed.
Plus, there’s no reason to mortgage the future for the present. The Devils are not a good defenseman away from being contenders.
what? haha, it was right the first time. the devils shouldn’t be giving up future assets for a big time defenseman.
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6-8 weeks is not the “rest of the season”. Even if it’s eight weeks, Tallinder will be back for the last 2-3 weeks of the season (10 games or so), and that’s not insignificant.
More than that, what is available on the market (trade or otherwise) right now that would be a legitimate upgrade? You can get the Kurtis Foster types for peanuts, but that isn’t particularly helpful. If you want a better player, you need to be prepared to give up tangible assets of some real value…. and that’s assuming a team would be willing to part with someone at the moment.
You might have some luck closer to the deadline, but that’s still a month away. I imagine Andy Greene will be cleared to play shortly after the All-Star Break, and that in and of itself will be an upgrade.
Long story short: there isn’t a move to be had, unless you want Lou to get fleeced by an opposing GM for the sake of making a move.
I think the nature of the injury will prevent him from doing much activity and push this to basically a rest of the season type of scenario. I’d be surprised (pleasantly) if he came back in the timetable the Devils gave.
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Agreed. There’s no guarantee that once he’s recovered he’ll be in any shape to play hockey. Forget having not skated for two months, odds are Tallinder won’t even be walking or standing for several weeks during his treatment. If he returns for the playoffs consider ourselves even luckier (than we will be for making the playoffs to begin with).
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I understand Greene is coming back very soon but with all do respect is he really much of an upgrade?
Greene would be replacing either Taormina, an AHL call-up who didn’t initially make the team in camp IIRC, or Foster, who was acquired for fringe players Rod Pelley and Mark Fraser. If Greene, a veteran defender who can easily play 18-20 (or more) minutes without issue, can’t do better than both, then we’ll have serious problems. I’m confident he can.
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I really really hope he replaces Foster before Taormina. Foster has been absolutely awful defensively so far, and we’ve gotten nearly as much offense out of Tao
I really really hope he replaces Foster before Taormina.
Here is an indication perhaps
It seems like Taormina got some time on the PP unit yesterday during Devils practice. And Foster was traded here only for the PP.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 24, 2012 5:14 AM EST up reply actions
Also Mark Fayne and Peter Harrold had some PP time in the game against Buffalo. The PP is no more or less successful since bringing in Foster.
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I don’t have the time to crunch the numbers right now but I don’t think that’s a true statement. It’s not significantly better, but I believe it is better since Foster arrived.
It may be a false correlation, however.
Since Foster's arrival
Foster: 19 GP, minus-5, 1-7-8, 0-6-6 on the PP.
Devils: 11-6-2
Devils PP: 10-for-57 (17.5%)
Overall this season, the Devils’ PP is 24-for-163 (14.7%). Doing the math, the Devils’ PP was 14-for-106 (13.2%) in 29 games before Foster’s arrival.
Foster also has a direct hand — i.e. an assist — in six of the ten PP goals the Devils have scored since his arrival. At the same time, the relative success rate of the Devils’ PP as measured by PPG/GP hasn’t really changed.
You can make the numbers dance either way, depending on your particular point of view.
Seriously is it just that hard for Lou to trade for Weber or Suter, or maybe both? And then Doughty and perhaps Tim Gleason for a little depth? I don’t understand what his problem is? Just get it done.
Am I the only one who thinks Urbom would be an upgrade?
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
… Says you, he was decently solid and I’m pretty sure his partner on Defense was Larsson, not too much of help there.
And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?
Says me and the coaching staff that sent him back down and kept Taormina up.
and I’m pretty sure his partner on Defense was Larsson, not too much of help there.
He was paired with Fayne or Taormina, if I recall correctly.
Says me and the coaching staff that sent him back down
This is the same coaching staff that trots out a regular 4th line of Janssen/Boulton and Carter. They can make mistakes too.
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Everyone does, but this wasn’t one of them. They were justified in sending him back down… he’s not ready and it showed.
I think that’s debateable, although I would agree that he wasn’t overly impressive. When you look at it though Is he really that much worse of an option than Foster?
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Yes, because at the very least Foster provides some offense. Urbom’s largely a defense first guy AND he was an adventure in his own zone.
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Which Devils defender isn’t a fantastic voyage in his own zone?
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As compared to Urbom, probably none of them.
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Foster is very, very bad defensively. Urbom’s probably worse, but that has to be close.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 24, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
I’m with Triumph here. I’m no fan of Foster, but I think he’s a better option than Urbom at this point.
Urbom is not ready for the NHL. Don’t play an unprepared kid, especially a defenseman.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 24, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
He’s still young. Lots of time for him to show his value.
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He can do it, sure !
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 24, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Really don't think the D is that bad.
Statistically the team is middle of the pack. Probably look a bit better if the goal tending was better at times. Add in the 12 short handed goals. If that was closer to league average it would be better. Blame that on the PP squad.
Do some guys make mistakes. Yeah. But you could probably take more the half the goals in the league and find that the goal happened because of a turnover or because someone was out of position. Do our guys do it more then other guys on other teams. I’m not so sure. Statistically it doesn’t look like it.
They need another competent winger. Preferably RWer.
Agree totally. the D has not bee the weakness on the devils this year. THe weakness has been three things: (1) terrible power play; (2) subpar performances from top players; (3) inconsistent goaltending.
all three of those rank higher than D in terms of priority.
subpar performances from top players
No, it’s definitely not that. It’s the lack of scoring depth from the bottom lines. The Top 6 with Clarkson are doing an honest job with 12 or more for each one of them.
The rest of the team, that means23 players, has scored a total of 17 goals.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 26, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Conflicted Here
Does the team need another defenseman? To me, that answer is clearly yes. But how much will that really make them better. Tim Gleason-types would be a huge upgrade over some of the current defenders, but is it worth dealing a top prospect (and right now only Merrill, and maybe Urbom fits in this category) or a high pick for a rental. I don’t think it is.
All that said, if the playoffs are important as everyone thinks they are (because of the financial situation) then perhaps a move is necessary.
A low risk move (if they can add the salary) could be to wait for Big Buff to return and see if you can get Oduya on the cheap. He’s played here before, so it would be a good, cheap fit for the team.
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If everyone’s healthy, I really don’t see the need for another defenseman. You’ve got a top 6 of Tallinder, Fayne, Volchenkov, Greene, Salvador, Larsson with Taormina/Foster as extras. I agree with you above that Tallinder may not be back for the playoffs, but I don’t think the Devils can make a move that assumes that. If they are going to get someone, I would want someone on the Visnovsky level, but I don’t think the Devils have the assets or a real reason to make that sort of move.
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Vishnovsky is interesting in that he is the one guy with money owed to him next year, who has a palatable contract (only $3MM in cash). I can’t see Anaheim moving him now, considering their recent success
But as you allude to above, the short-term rentals aren’t usually that great (although I think the hatred for guys live Havelid, Skoula, etc are misplaced), but I would be OK with someone who has played here before like Johnny O.
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Anaheim is still way outside of a playoff spot and 3 of their better players will probably retire in the off-season – I think he will end up somewhere else.
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Oates for Vishnovsky straight up
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 24, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
oops Visnovsky
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 24, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
There’s ongoing chatter in Montreal that P.K. Subban might be available. Is he the sort of upgrade you’d have in mind, or is he too much of a mixed bag to apply?
Apparently Streit is available.
Even though he’s their captain, word is that he’s available. I think we should go for him, regardless he’s in the same division. Send Foster+. Streit could be the answer for our PP problems.
He probably couldn’t hurt, but I don’t think the team’s PP problems are personnel issues so much as systemic.
I disagree. I don’t think the Devils have the personnel. The power play has been not good for 2 years now.
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Kovalchuk, Parise and Elias have all had success on the PP in the past. One could make the case that they lack the personnel on the blue line/point, but with the guys they have they should be better.
It’s too much “get the puck to Kovy” and every team is ready for that.
by elesias on Jan 25, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s funny with all the discussions of the power play, almost no one mentions the zone entry or getting the puck up the ice, and these to me are the Devils’ biggest problems. They don’t get into the zone very easily. Once the power play is set up they do a good job getting shots and moving the puck around, but they don’t get set up often enough.
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Fair point. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team dump and chase on a PP as much as the Devils seem to.
and in addition on the Devils’ first unit, you’ve got Clarkson (slow), Elias (definitely not fast anymore), and Parise (seems to have lost a gear although is finding it lately) after the puck.
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Why would the Islanders be the slightest bit interested in Kurtis Foster? They’re more likely to be interested in prospects and picks to supplement their maturing core of young players.
Why would the Islanders be the slightest bit interested in Kurtis Foster?
Not that I’m disagreeing with you on a logical stand point, but remember what team we are talking about right here. I’m sure that they would praise Foster and hail him as another Nick Lidstrom if they really wanted to believe that.
If the Devils want to be a real Cup contender, they’ll take a chance and grab an impact defenseman. I’m talking about Visnovsky/Streit – someone of that caliber.
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