Devils in the Details- 1/26/12: All-Rest Weekend
Your Links for today...
Adam Larsson (wrist) and Adam Henrique (groin) will not go to All-Star Weekend [Fire and Ice]
Andy Greene will practise with the team on Monday [Fire and Ice]
Just like me, there are other Devils fans who have no clue of what direction the team is going [Puck Buddies]
Three Questions about the Devils at the All-Star Break [RWTD]
10 Storylines to watch during the 2nd half [PHT]
Even if the Flyers can put Chris Pronger on LTIR for the next 5 years, there's still some problems with that [Hockey Prospectus]
An Anonymous NHL Player on the failed Realignment scheme [Puck Daddy]
Is PK Save % an important part in predicting a goalie's future success? [Broad Street Hockey]
Mike Babcock likes doing what hockey fans doing after a tough loss- drinking [SBNation]
40 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Three Questions
Lets hope they can find some answers this week or it’s going to be a long second half.
ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda
Blue and Orange, Green and White, Red and Black
Twitter: @BlueChill1123
That Running with The Devils link is horrific.
Question #4: What teams are on the schedule in the second half?
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
And Havelid, Rolston, Holik, Captain Crankypants, Paul Martin, Oduya…
by Marty 4 Prez on Jan 26, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Looking at the rosters from those years I’m amazed at how we were so good then.
I swear we have a lot more talent now.
na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!
agreed
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field? ~Jim Bouton
by LaserVortex888 on Jan 26, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Things will probably get worse before they get better as 5 of the next 6 are against teams ahead of us in the standings. We have to find a way to beat good teams, especially at home.
If we don’t………I’m not sure that making the playoffs and getting swept is better than finishing 9th. (I’m not thinking from the finances point of view. JVB’s bank account is not my concern.)
na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!
I’m not sure that making the playoffs and getting swept is better than finishing 9th.
From a financial point of view, it is definitely better.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 26, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. I meant from the fan pov though.
Getting swept and totally outclassed would suck.
But if we get hot at the right time, who knows? I think last years team could have won a round or 2 in the playoffs, and we finished under .500.
na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!
But if we get hot at the right time
It’s all about that.
"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"
by Elektrostal_Kid on Jan 27, 2012 5:10 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure that making the playoffs and getting swept is better than finishing 9th.
I’m sure it is. Making the playoffs is way better than missing it. That’s the lesson I took out of last season, at least.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jan 26, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. Even if the Devils get swept by the Rags/Bruins, 2 playoff games (which will probably be sellouts) will provide some significant money. Not enough to solve the debt problems, but good enough.
Plus the 15th overall pick is not so bad (/crosses fingers and hopes all the other teams ahead of the devils don’t draft Gaunce)
Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
Everyone has more goals than Scott Gomez
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jan 27, 2012 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
trading parise now mainstream view among devils fans
“So awful that behindthenet says that if the Devils were 5-on-4 for an entire 60 minutes, they would only outscore their opponents by 1.9 goals”
Thats pretty devastating from the puckbuddy article. Have to agree with piece as well that the devils goaltending hasnt been and likely insnt good enough for a serious playoff run. That said. they could at least split up the time a bit more evenly; the article rightly notes, Hedberg has been better, but may very well not be the answer himself.
Interesting to note how disheartened the fans here are with the devils. Comments on the board over the past couple weeks show that devils fans have now relunctantly reconciled themselves to parting with zach parise via trade. its even been common for board members to call for a trade of parise in the past couple weeks. Think back only a few months ago, and espesially over the summer when there were still hopes of a long term deal, any such talk would be considered blasphemy and immediately rejected on this board. now its mainsteam. It speaks to the frustration with this team, its managment by the coaches, and Parise’s own subpar year thus far.
You’re so silly. Why don’t you have a glass of milk, on me.
by Marty 4 Prez on Jan 26, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Thats pretty devastating
It’s not not devastating if that’s what you mean.
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field? ~Jim Bouton
by LaserVortex888 on Jan 26, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Trade the bum for Curtis Sandford and a bag of pucks I say!!!!!
Maybe a few pairs of skates and a 7th rounder too.
No, the only acceptable return for ZP would be Gomez!
by Marty 4 Prez on Jan 26, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
If the Devils are making a deal with Columbus and don’t get Clitsome I will be pissed.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
I don’t think many people really want to trade Zach, but people are starting to approach it as a more realistic possibility as the deadline gets closer. I think a lot of people were holding out hope that a deal would be worked out/announced soon after the new year. Almost a month later with complete radio silence on both sides has started to give people the impression that maybe he won’t be here after all. It’s frustrating, but as the deadline draws nearer, you’ll see lots of people panicking and saying to trade Parise. I’m still hopeful that he’ll stay, but I’m admittedly a bit less confident than I was four weeks ago.
Fans are disheartened because the team has lost 3 games in a row, btw. If the Devils won two, or maybe even one of those games, the atmosphere would be markedly different. Losing streaks bring out the jumpers faster than anything else. I realize you make your home exclusively on the “everything is the worst at all times” wagon, though, so hopefully the Devils win a few after the break so people aren’t crowding your territory anymore.
Status quo.
you’ve mischaracterized what I’ve said all year. it has nothing to do with a few wins here or a few losses there. there are three problems with the team: (1) terrible power play; (2) top players (kovy parise) have subpar offensive years; (3) inconsistent goaltending. those three have been CONSTANTS, i have have consistently pointed to them, regardless of whether the team had won a few or lost a few at the time. so pin the label of ‘everything is worst at all times’ on someone who deserves it.
everything is not terrible. there are also three major reason the devils still have a fighting chance: (1) the penalty kill; (2) The D, espesially Larsson and Salvador, both of whom were question marks coming in, having very solid efforts thus far; and (3) the play complementary offensive players like Henrique and Clarkson who we didnt expect much from or didnt even expect to be on the team. (an honorable mention goes to Elias as the only one of our top offensive players putting of the numbers the teams needs from him.
\
[Deep breath]
I wasn’t implying that you change your tone based on a few games here or there, quite the contrary, actually. I was saying that is a completely different set of people. You are nothing, if not consistent. My point (I’m assuming your response was mostly to my last sentence) was referring to the mostly negative tone in all of your posts (granted, you have just listed some things you like about the team [reassembling bits of my exploded brain]).
Look, we’re all Devils fans here and I understand that you love this team as much as anyone else, but I think people just grow weary of the constant pessimism, leading to you getting into a big pissing match seemingly every time you post something. That’s not to say others, some of whom thrive on debates that include excessive block quoting, aren’t just as culpable in many of them. Many of your arguments have merit, but people don’t need them rehashed in every game recap.
Example: you prefer to have Moose start over Marty more these days; an opinion that a healthy number of people seem to share. No issue. You’ve cited your arguments (GAA and sv% over the past year), others have rebutted (Moose’s stats have steadily declined over the course of the season), and that would hopefully be the end of it for at least a little while. But no, we’re having the same stupid argument every week game day, and you are, more often than not, the one starting it.
Regarding all of your other points:
Negatives
1) Yup, the power play sucks, no argument here. On a positive note, it has been improving at least a little bit.
2) Maybe Kovy and Zach not setting the world on fire this season, but I don’t think they’ve been underperforming as much as some indicate; especially Kovalchuk, who has played the entire year out of position and is around career averages.
3) Marty and Moose haven’t been good. You are right.
Positives
1) Powerkill. Enough said.
2) The D has been OK. Soft goaltending hasn’t helped, but many goals have been a result of the goalie getting hung out to dry, too. I think Larsson and Sal have been up and down, personally, though both have looked good of late.
3) The Devils have lucked out on Henrique; he’s been awesome, even despite a bit of a slump recently. Clarky’s output is about 100x what anyone was expecting of him, so agreed again.
[Exhale]
Wow, text wall city. Hooray for productivity!
Status quo.
That’s not to say others, some of whom thrive on debates that include excessive block quoting, aren’t just as culpable in many of them.
You love my block quotes, and that’s a pretty unfair description of me and my actions.
You love my block quotes
Confirmation bias. You have no stats to back this up.
and that’s a pretty unfair description of me and my actions.
Meh. Perhaps an over-generalization of the situation, but it still takes two to tango, and you get sucked in a lot. I appreciate the destruction of under-evidenced viewpoints as much as the next guy, but sometimes you just gotta let things go.
Status quo.
I agree that people don’t want to see Zach traded. But letting him leave after the season isn’t any help to the Devils, so it is clearly a possiblilty. I truly believe that Zach wants to be on a team he thinks can help him win his first Cup, not just go for big money. Last season probably seemed like an abberation, so he gave it one more shot with a one year deal. Now, he’s evaluating the team around him to see if they can become a winner. He must see a lot of young talent around him, but I think the big question around this team’s future is in goal. They really don’t have a strong pipeline to replace Marty who is clearly not the goalie he once was. I don’t think Kinkaid or Frazee will be the answer, and the others guys are probably a few years away from the NHL and further from their prime. If Zach wants to win, he has to question how the Devils will fill the goalie position in the meantime. And if Lou can’t give him a good plan, Zach has little reason to stay. So while fans don’t want to see him traded, it’s being discussed because getting something for him now (in a season where a deep playoff run seems unlikely) is better than letting him sign with a contendor next year. That’s why the discussions take place. It has nothing to do with a supposed subpar year for Zach.
Board? I thought this is a blog.
"So awful that behindthenet says that if the Devils were 5-on-4 for an entire 60 minutes, they would only outscore their opponents by 1.9 goals"
Thats pretty devastating from the puckbuddy article.
No team ever plays 5-on-4 for 60 minutes, so it’s not really devastating. I think the larger point is to say the power play hasn’t been good which is news to exactly zero Devils fans who have seen them play at least few games this season.
Think back only a few months ago, and espesially over the summer when there were still hopes of a long term deal, any such talk would be considered blasphemy and immediately rejected on this board. now its mainsteam. It speaks to the frustration with this team, its managment by the coaches, and Parise’s own subpar year thus far.
Or it might speak to the fact that the trade deadline is coming up now and it’s not entirely impossible that a trade happens. Throw in some made-up rumors by people who claim to know what’s going on in NJ but never do flying about (hey there Fourth Period and Mark Everson), some bad times like two losses and an SO loss in the last three games, Parise not doing much despite given the minutes and opportunities, and a generally negative way of looking at things and then suddenly there are the “disheartened fans.” It happens and like everything else on this blog, commenters bring up their points and provided they based in some reason and not just banging on a drum over and over and over such that it becomes noise, it gets argued and responded to accordingly.
By the by, I don’t think you know what the words blasphemy or mainsteam (sic) means.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jan 26, 2012 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
As usual John, you have a particular love for details, which are sometimes enlightenting, but as often lead you to mistake the tree for the forest (ie the bigger picture). (if at all matters i thought this was a blog but also a discussion board, but i stand corrected).
your first point, we agree, the power play is awful and is probably the number one reason the devils have had a frustrating first half. neither the puckbuddy article nor I suggested a team ever plays 60 minutues 5-4, so I’m guessing you’re just looking for grasping for things to disagree on.
Surely the trade talk around Zach has to do with the deadline approaching. But it also has to do with the dissapointment surrounding his lack of contract talks (which really began when the team only inked him to one year in the summer) and his subpar play. If Zach was on pace for the type of season we came to expect from him (in which case the devils would probably be at least a few games better) you wouldnt be seeing as many posts on the board (i mean blog, john!) that have popped up regularly now theorizing what we can or should get back for him.
to be clear my point was about the sentiment among devils fans here, not the actual credibility of reports that he will be traded. in fact, i think he wont be traded. moreover, i think he could have a huge second half if he had space from kovy.
and yes, at the start of the season it would be utter blasphemy to talk serious about trading zach, considering devils fans have tended to view him as the gem of their organization and centerpeice of the team, their baby so to speak. if that use of blasphemy does not make sense to you I can only suggest broadening of your understanding of the english language, espesially if you want a career in journalism, or other writing intensive careers. As for the use of mainstream, we can quibble over whether thats the right word to use in this case of devils fans sentiments concerning a parise trade; but again, the larger point here John, in case it escaped you in my original post, is that devils fans (judging from the posts here that I’m sure you read) have increasingly (if relunctantly) softened to the prospect of a parise trade. Again, I dont think it will happen and I dont think it should happen, but it is an indicator of how fans are feeling about their team and about parise right now.
neither the puckbuddy article nor I suggested a team ever plays 60 minutues 5-4, so I’m guessing you’re just looking for grasping for things to disagree on.
The excerpt you provide from an article you fail to link to extrapolates a limited event like 5-on-4 play to a full 60 minutes to sensationalize its ineffectiveness and you point to it and call it “pretty devastating”.
No one is disputing that the power play is a weakness, but there’s no reason to resort to hyperbole to point it out nor is a made-up, unrealistic statistic “pretty devastating.”
If Zach was on pace for the type of season we came to expect from him…
Before this season he’s averaged .81 points per game. This season he’s averaging .83 points per game. I’d call that meeting reasonable expectations.
…(in which case the devils would probably be at least a few games better)…
One could say this about any player on any team.
…you wouldnt be seeing as many posts on the board (i mean blog, john!) that have popped up regularly now theorizing what we can or should get back for him.
Hogwash.
You said it in the first sentence: “Surely the trade talk around Zach has to do with the deadline approaching.”
Period. End of story.
He’s not signed beyond this year and so it’s only natural that there be speculation about what a possible return for him as a rental could be. It wouldn’t matter if the team were in 15th or 1st, it would be a topic of discussion though, granted, there’d be a lot more of it if the team were in 15th than there would be if they were in first.
It has little to nothing to do with his “subpar play” and everything to do with what is best for the team in the future.
in fact, i think he wont be traded.
I’m bookmarking this page. Just because it might come in handy one day.
and yes, at the start of the season it would be utter blasphemy to talk serious about trading zach, considering devils fans have tended to view him as the gem of their organization and centerpeice of the team, their baby so to speak.
No one really wanted things to unfold the way they have but even before he re-signed for one year there were frank, realistic (to a degree) discussions about what he could fetch in trade at different points in time, what the team needed and who potential trade partners might be.
I can only suggest broadening of your understanding of the english language
Irony, thy name is max16s.
“Before this season he’s averaged .81 points per game. This season he’s averaging .83 points per game. I’d call that meeting reasonable expectations.”
Just a little point to make here. .81 includes his first season. Over the last 4 seasons, his points per game has been .93. Over the last 2 (not including last year) it’s 1.08.
I don’t think it’s all his fault, but this is a drop-off. And as many have pointed out, SHGs and empty-netters account for a few of his goals.
Why wouldn’t we include his first season?
Arbitrarily ignoring entire seasons is cherry picking stats to fit one’s narrative. The fact is, he’s on his career average point-per-game pace.
Besides, this “he’s having a subpar year” argument is laughable. He had seasons of 14-18-32, 31-31-62, 32-33-65, 45-49-94, 38-44-82, an injury shortened season of 3-3-6 and is on pace for a season of 26-43-69. He rose, peaked, and then fell off.
Too many people glance at the history and see 45 goals and assume he’s a perennial 35+ goal scorer but ignore the possibility that maybe he just overachieved one year a la Brian Gionta and that that year is the anomaly and not every other season, which may be more indicative of his likely production. Or that maybe as evidenced by his decline in shots taken and increasing goals:assists ratio, he’s just passing more often.
More goals would be great, but if he finishes with 69 points (which would be the third highest total of his career), I don’t see how anyone could say it was “subpar.”
Why wouldn’t you? Because it makes sense, clearly he became a different player his second year in the league and set the bar way higher. It only makes sense because Parise isn’t expected to take a step back.
And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?
He played the games. 81 of them. Omitting them for statistical purposes diminishes the veracity of the statistic.
Anyone can craft any argument out of any stat block if they’re allowed to leave out whichever ones don’t conform to their stance.
It only makes sense because Parise isn’t expected to take a step back.
Except he appears to have done exactly that.
What, then, is the reason so many hold him to his absolute peak production as the expectation when every other season has been either a climb to that peak or a decline from it?
Generally, a rookie is not expected to score as much as a veteran. In his rookie season, he was still maturing and getting used to playing in the NHL. Personally, I think the .93 points per game (excluding the first season) is a more reasonable expectation than the .81 points per game. Including the first season implies that you expect him to play like a rookie one year out of every five.
Still, .83 points per game is a minor slump copared to .93 (only 8 points for the full season), so subpar is a harsh description.

by 




















