The New Jersey Devils Would Be Stupid to Trade Zach Parise This Season
We're in the middle of a break in the season for the NHL All Star Game. After Sunday's game, the real crunch of the season will take hold. The playoffs will start becoming a pressing concern, the mindset of teams will turn to maximizing points, and schedules will get tighter - especially in March. Teams are taking this break to take stock of their team and determine where they could stand to improve if they have something to play for this spring or who they should keep if they do not. The New Jersey Devils are no different in that sense. However, they do have a problem not shared by many teams: Zach Parise.
You see, Zach Parise is an impending unrestricted free agent and his status has remain unchanged. Parise will become an unrestricted free agent on July 1, 2012 once his current one-season deal ends. It's an open question as to whether Parise would sign with the Devils prior to that date or if he'll play the market. It will remain an open question since Lou doesn't discuss contract negotiations. Moreover, according to this post by Tom Gulitti on Thursday, there haven't been any contract talks. And we're not going to know if there are any until after it's happened. Therefore, it's only natural to wonder whether the Devils will trade Parise since his future in New Jersey is in doubt.
Making matters more difficult is the team's financial situation. Tom Gulitti wrote an excellent post about the subject which you all should read. In summary: the team's received an advance on money they would normally receive from the NHL; Ray Chambers has yet to have his share bought out; and their outstanding debt of $80 million has yet to be refinanced. It's not nearly as bad as the articles from Josh Kosman have made it out to be, as Matt Ventolo suggested a few weeks back. Also: I wouldn't expect Nelson Peltz to do anything, given this insightful comment from Gulitti that user Zelepukin pointed out in this FanPost. Yet, it's not a good situation either. It could definitely impact Parise's future presuming Parise will demand (and command) a very large contract. The Devils could very well not have the money to give #9 what he wants.
When you combine the two situations along with the general worries involving any free agent (e.g. where do they really want to be, how much are they looking for, etc.), the big question looms larger. Should the Devils trade Zach Parise? Should the Devils get something in exchange for one of their top forwards so they don't end up with nothing? Kevin put together a post answering that question: what would be acceptable return for Parise His desire - a first round pick, a young NHL player, and a forward prospect - would represent a possible outcome. And I understand and respect the opinion of those who don't want the Devils to possibly see Parise walk away on July 1.
However, I have an opposite opinion: the Devils shouldn't trade Parise this season. At all. To put it bluntly, Lou would be really stupid to trade Parise this season. I think the only way he should do so is if Parise himself walks up to the GM and demand a trade in an angry and/or disrespectful fashion. Even then, I think there should be some second thoughts; there are good reasons for the Devils to keep Parise this season. Please read on those reasons after the jump.
Let's talk about the elephant in the room first. Trading Zach Parise will not benefit the team's financial situation at all. The Devils' ownership problems are only going to be solved if someone with a lot of money wants to buy Chambers' stake in the team and has no issue with Jeff Vanderbeek remaining in control, or if Chambers completely changes his mind and wants to keep being part of the ownership group. Once that's solved, then the re-financing will get sorted out and we move on. Unless Parise has an incredible fortune that we don't know about, he's a non-factor. Whether the Devils keep Parise this season, trade him right away, trade him after the playoffs, sign him after July 1, or let him go, these financial issues will remain.Given that the Devils' debt is estimated at $80 million, whatever savings that will come from trading Parise is not significant. CapGeek has an excellent daily calculator of each team's roster that explains why. As of today, the Devils have already paid out $3,729,730 of Parise's one-year deal. If the Devils traded him right now, they would save $2,270,270. That's not really a big chunk of that debt. If the Devils wait until the trade deadline of February 27, Parise would only be owed $1,297,297. The Devils would still have an incredible debt either way.
And as of July 1, Parise is off the books. The Devils' financial issues may prevent the Devils from giving him a huge contract; that is true. But if Parise walks, the Devils will still have those issues. The only fix for that is with ownership.
So let's get to the hockey part of the argument. Yes, the Devils can try and get something for Parise. However well made Kevin's points are and I do respect them, I wouldn't expect that something to be all that good as the Devils have no leverage. Lou has certainly made some excellent trades in the past. Yet, we've seen this situation before with other teams. We've seen it with Ilya Kovalchuk. Talks between Atlanta and Kovalchuk for a contract situation broke down and it wasn't exactly a secret that the Thrashers were looking to deal Kovalchuk. It was a surprise that it was New Jersey, but what Lou sent in exchange wasn't all that much. For Kovalchuk and Anssi Salmela was only Johnny Oduya, Niclas Bergfors, Patrice Cormier, and a first round pick. Oduya's a NHL defenseman but not all that good; Bergfors may have talent but he's bouncing around the league; Cormier wasn't a high level prospect; and the first was shipped out in a later deal Atlanta made. The Devils lost no core players or major assets to get Kovalchuk. Essentially, the Devils gave Atlanta 60 cents for a dollar. Why would we believe the Devils would get something better for Parise, who's in a similar situation?
The main point to emphasize is that the Devils really have no leverage. All the other twenty nine teams in the NHL will not have to give up a lot for Parise. Any team with the cap space and cash flow to offer a massive contract can just wait until July 1 and give up nothing to talk to him. Sure, there will be teams who would be willing to make a deal for Parise if the opportunity arises. But short of a GM not understanding the value of his own players; the Devils won't be acquiring a top player or even a top prospect in return for Parise. It'll likely be secondary players and/or assets that likely won't replace what Parise brings to the proverbial table. And that's for the trade deadline, the potential return will be even less after the season (say, around the draft) since free agency would be even closer.
Now, I've argued that Parise has not played as well as Parise has done in the past. Basically, 2011-12 Zach Parise is not THE Zach Parise that we all loved and appreciated from two to three seasons ago. Yet, it's not a binary situation; Parise is still an important part of the Devils. He's the captain of the team. He plays a lot of minutes in all situations for the Devils. He may not be as productive as he has been in past seasons; but he's still producing more than most of the rest of the team. The Devils need to keep such players as they're fighting for the playoffs. To me, this is the biggest reason to keep Parise. At 26-19-3, the Devils are eighth in the Eastern Conference. They've went into the All Star break with three losses; but they're still in the playoff bubble. Toronto, Washington, and Florida all have 55 points like the Devils; and they're all ahead of the basement teams in the East. They're likely going to be in that bubble through the rest of the season. Since the Devils aren't where they are by riding percentages, it would have to take a pretty big collapse for the Devils to fall out of playoff contention as they are. If the Devils move Parise by February 27, then the challenge of making the playoffs becomes far more difficult. Especially if Parise picks up his game in the final three months of the season.
I have to emphasize the importance of making the playoffs. For a financial perspective, making the playoffs is important as it'll lead to extra games. That's additional revenue the team could certainly use. For a hockey perspective, making the playoffs are important as it's the first step to get back to the top. For those who don't recall, the Devils didn't make it to the postseason last season for the first time since 1996. As much as Devils fans want to see the team win a playoff round; they're not going to get there without having their important players playing well. Trading Parise goes against that goal and for that reason alone, it would be dumb for the Devils to trade him this season.
That's my feeling on what the Devils should do with Parise. I respect, and understand that Devils fans by and large want Parise re-signed. I agree with that, even though I have reservations on how much the Devils should offer. That's a discussion for another time; but I want to know what you think. Do you agree that it would be dumb for the Devils to trade Parise? Do you think I'm off-base and there's good reason for the Devils to trade Parise? And if so, why? Please leave your answers and other thoughts about trading Parise in the comments. Thank you for reading.
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Nice analysis. The devils would indeed be stupid to trade Parise, besides being a fan favorite. He is franchise player. I would add that seeing their captain sign on in say early Feb would raise the moral and spirit of the team….
by piscataway_devil on Jan 28, 2012 9:22 PM EST reply actions
Exactly. I didn’t spell that out clearly, but trading a captain that isn’t acting like Langenbrunner isn’t going to help at all for the team’s fortunes.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jan 28, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
very nice article but...
now the real question is can we give him an extension before july 1st….i’m really not hopeful we can match what other teams can offer him on the open market
"Don't mess with the Devil buddy, were number one, we beat anybody! WE'RE THE DEVILS! THE DEVILS!"-David Puddy
*Giants Superbowl 46 #allin*
i dont think that 6 mil is going to bring in somebody with parise’s caliber and for the long term…
"Don't mess with the Devil buddy, were number one, we beat anybody! WE'RE THE DEVILS! THE DEVILS!"-David Puddy
*Giants Superbowl 46 #allin*
I know but you still have room to make a move.
Keeping Parise is essential to DeBoer’s system (uptempo).
Yes, definitely. I hope this cap space is used to resign or give Parise an extension. But still, if he goes on the open market I don’t like our chances. I hate to say it but there are so many teams that are closer to winning a cup than us and can offer Zach the big $.
"Don't mess with the Devil buddy, were number one, we beat anybody! WE'RE THE DEVILS! THE DEVILS!"-David Puddy
*Giants Superbowl 46 #allin*
I agree with you John 100%. So does Gulitti and Chere. They’ve both gone on record saying Parise won’t be dealt.
But can we have our cake and eat it to?
What about Parise’s rights being sold before July 1st just like Phoenix did with Bryzgalov? They at least received something for it. Getting nothing for Gionta still hurts in my mind.
I think a team like Minnesota would value that extra time to negotiate, Detroit maybe less so because they feel they would get him anyway.
I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.
What about Parise’s rights being sold before July 1st just like Phoenix did with Bryzgalov? They at least received something for it.
That something was very little: a third round pick, future considerations, and a minor league player on an expiring contract. Short of the third round pick becoming a diamond in the rough, it’s really nothing compared to the quality they gave up.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jan 29, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Great spin.
Never thought to look at Parise’s value this way. I always felt that if you knew you wouldnt be able to keep a player, you trade him for a bag of pucks if thats what you could get. Its better than nothing. However after reading this, it makes much more sense to keep him and hope he aids the Devils into the playoffs. Money is the name of the game after all. It just seems the Devils will be better off getting out of this financial mess.
"We're looking forward to building the type of team the Rangers are able to buy." Phoenix GM Bobby Smith.
by Michael Gianetti on Jan 28, 2012 11:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Sure, but will he take $60m over 8 yrs, front-loaded for $8-10 mil?
Assuming Marty and Hedberg retire after this year, that’s $6mil annually which would go towards a $6.5 cap hit for ZP. But, the Devd will need a proper starting goalie. Will another 1yr Marty-Moose combo do the job? I dunno, but the transition will have to start soon and that’ll clear Marty’s cap hit. The replacement would likely be less.
by Alan Wright on Jan 29, 2012 7:58 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Couldn't Disagree More
I love Zach, and want him to stay, but if he is not signed by the deadline he has to go.
First the playoff arguement. Does trading Zach hurt our playoff chances? That depends on what we recieve in return. I wouldn’t be in favor of a trade for another expiring contract star UNLESS it included an opportunity for us to sign him before the deal was official. Would a trade for a Weber or Suter mitigate losing Zach? It all depends on the player.
If the teams financial issues are dependent upon how deep we go in the playoffs alone, we are in much more trouble than we suspect. Sure its important, but we have had plenty of short runs, and the playoff revenue arguement works for me IF you go past round 2.
Can we afford to let him walk in free agency WITH NO RETURN? The very people on here saying we should not trade him will be on here crying in July SHOULD he walk, even if we go deep in the playoffs. If your telling me we win the Stanley Cup this year if we dont trade Zach and he walks anyway, thats a trade I would make because its SO very hard to win the Cup. So are we a legitimate cup contender at the moment, even with Zach? Lets be honest- Our Defense and Goaltending has not been good and we are not scoring clutch goals. I pray we get on a role soon, but the current team is the evidence you have to ponder to detremine IF we are a legitimate cup contender at the deadline.
I’d like to think that Lou is very busy behind the scenes trying to sign Zach before the deadline and this entire topic will be mute, but I’m not prepared to take the chance that he will walk and we will be left with nothing.
I don’t think anyone is going to give you a player like Weber or Suter for Parise. If you trade Parise, it will be for second-tier player(s) at best. The Devils will definitely have less talent after the trade, and it will definitely hurt their chances to make the playoffs.
That said, the only reason to even try to make the playoffs this year is financial. This is not a Cup-contending team. I don’t think finishing 8th or 9th or 10th in the conference makes a difference for the team over the long-run if they’re just going to be one and done in the playoffs anyway (and the bottom two teams likely will be, no matter who they are). If revenue from two (maybe three if we’re lucky) playoff games makes that much difference, then I can see keeping Zach, but next year’s Devils (and beyond) will be better off if we trade him now for whatever second-tier player we can get.
I don’t want to see him go, but if Lou decides Parise isn’t coming back, I think they’re better off making the trade, unless the revenue from those two playoff games is really that important.
Second Tier Player?
That is just an insane comment. Parise would draw a #1 pick and, Top six forward or top 4 Dman, AND a legitimate prospect.
Not a chance
He draws that sort of talent if he’s locked up for several years. For a team that is employing Zach Parise as a rental, you’re going to get a similar variety of pu-pu platter as Atlanta got for Ilya Kovalchuk and Marian Hossa.
Teams simply aren’t going to give up the level of talent you expect for a rental. Considering this is a sport where you can’t make a trade conditional on a contract extention, teams would have to trade for Parise first and then hope they can lock him up. In the absence of such certainty, there’s no reason for them to give up such substantial assets.
More than that, Zach Parise is a year removed from a serious injury. His production has not rebounded to pre-injury levels. Short of stupidity/desperation on the part of another GM, I don’t see where your return is coming from. Not only doesn’t he fetch what you’re hoping for, I don’t see how he fetches even as prominent a package as the two rentals I made mention of above.
NONSENSE
You can’t compare Parise with either Kovachuk or Hossa. There was no way Kovalchuk was staying in Atlanta and every team in the league knew it. They still got a front line defensemen, a player who was on the NHL roster at the time of teh trade, and a prospect with potential upside.
Clearly teams value Parise more than most players available, and he would bring tremendous return.
So lets assume I’m right- A team steps up with a top 6 forward AND a legit prospect AND a #1 pick- DO YOU TURN THAT DOWN?
So lets assume I’m right- A team steps up with a top 6 forward AND a legit prospect AND a #1 pick- DO YOU TURN THAT DOWN?
I would think so. A “legit prospect” may not be anybody down the line, a top 6 forward isn’t going to replace a top player, and #1 pick is always a risk to a degree. That’s not a tremendous return for a top player in the league.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jan 29, 2012 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
I would take it if the top 6 forward were on a good contract and had many years before his contract expired. But I don’t think that’s the kind of offer the Devils would get.
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You can’t compare Parise with either Kovachuk or Hossa.
Sure I can. Parise will be the most prominent name on the trade market if he’s floated out there. And if he’s floated out there, the assumption will be that the Devils are incapable of re-signing him and therefore are trying to get what they can in return for his services. It will be the Kovalchuk situation without the public drama and negotiations that characterized Ilya’s waning days in Atlanta.
They still got a front line defensemen, a player who was on the NHL roster at the time of teh trade, and a prospect with potential upside.
That’s one way of looking at what Atlanta got. You could also look at it the way a lot of analysts saw it at the time — Atlanta got a second-pairing defenseman who wasn’t living up to a big money contract he just signed, a prospect who had hit the rookie wall and whose organization was willing to give up on him that quickly, a prospect with some upside but also with some baggage, and a late 1st-round pick.
So lets assume I’m right
You know what happens when you assume, right? You make a donkey out of you and me. But I’ll play along for the sake of the argument.
A team steps up with a top 6 forward AND a legit prospect AND a #1 pick- DO YOU TURN THAT DOWN?
That depends on the composition of that package. Is it really a Top 6 forward, or someone in that spot for lack of bodies to fill the role (e.g. Sykora / Zubrus with NJ this year)? How high a #1 pick am I looking at? Am I sending Parise to a team that could keep me out of the playoffs this year?
….
You also missed one other factor that will drive Zach Parise’s trade price down if he’s shopped at the deadline — the Devils got Kovalchuk a month before the trade freeze, and paid a little more for the privilege of having #17 for an extra dozen games (give or take). If you shop Parise at the deadline, the acquiring team isn’t getting nearly as much time with him…. so why should they pay an equal price for lesser returns?
Finally, who do you really think is going to step up with that sort of package? I can’t think of too many GMs who would part with such a package when they could tinker around the edges of their club, add some complementary pieces, and save their chips for more of a “sure thing”.
also nonsense- Are you saying that winnipeg isnt happy to at least gotten Oduya? If parise walks you wouldnt be happy having at least recieved a starting dman and a #1 pic? which was a condition of my ASSumption..
Are you saying that winnipeg isnt happy to at least gotten Oduya?
If Johnny Oduya is the return worth crowing over in the Ilya Kovalchuk deal, Atlanta/Winnipeg got mugged in the process. There are many similar defensemen on the UFA market every summer, and they sign for similar dollars — the Jets could have had their pick of the remainder and likely without having to part with an asset in the first place.
I’m not a Winnipeg fan, I don’t know any Winnipeg fans, and I don’t frequent their SBNation blogs. So it’s simply my intuition completely unsupported by any facts or research…. but I doubt Jets’ fans are wildly enthusiastic about having Johnny Oduya and I doubt they’d be particularly disappointed if he isn’t playing for them next season (Oduya is a UFA this summer). I certainly doubt they haven’t put together umpteen blog posts proclaiming “doom and gloom are upon us” because of the mere possibility that Johnny Oduya won’t be plying his trade for them next year.
If parise walks you wouldnt be happy having at least recieved a starting dman and a #1 pic?
The draft pick is a complete crapshoot. The teams likely to be interested in dealing for Zach Parise will have picks late in the round, which makes it an even dicier proposition…. and one that would take several years to judge if it was an adequate return given how this franchise develops its players.
As for “a starting defenseman”, the Devils are overloaded with two kinds of defensemen right now: 2nd-pairing guys, and marginal 3rd-pairing guys. Unless you can guarantee me that the Devils would receive a stud 1st-pairing guy out of a Parise deal, I’m not interested in adding to what the Devils already have a surplus of. Considering how seldom those stud defensemen are placed on the trade market and how much they cost to acquire, I doubt the Devils are getting one in return for a couple of months of Zach Parise’s services.
Brilliant
Oh I get your logic. You would rather have no one instead of a #1 pick and Oduya ( Oduya quality palyer in this case).. GENIUS!!
So your saying Winnipeg would be happier with nothing? Just Genius!!
Your Logic (or lack there of) demonstrates what happens when fans put their emotion for a player in front of common sense. And don’t forget we have to give up a #1 in the next couple years..
Lets hope Lou signs him soon and we can stop talking about this.
It wouldn’t be a #1 pick. It would most likely be a late first round pick as the teams that would be interested in trading for a rental player would be those with something to play for in April, not those already planning their draft strategies.
The point is that an unknown quantity like a draft pick that will likely take several years to develop before one can even begin to judge their potential and a middling defenseman on a team full of middling defensemen is hardly something to crow about.
It’d be better than nothing, but not by a whole lot. I’d hope for a better return than that if it came to trading him because I doubt many Thrashers/Jets fans are loving the return for Kovalchuk in hindsight.
Don’t see the Devils getting an offer better than the Kovy deal. In fact, I would expect slightly less.
I agree. Doesn’t mean I don’t hope it’d be for more but, unfortunately, reality has a funny way of not abiding by my desires.
It’s why I’m not overly worked up about “letting him go for nothing.” While it’s always nice to have something to show for a loss, is anyone really going to be happy if at this time next year we’re looking at a team with a Johnny Oduya-type defenseman and a Patrice Cormier-type prospect under contract? That wouldn’t satisfy me at all, and an argument could probably be made that the team will be worse off for taking on contracts of redundant player-types rather than promoting from within and/or pursuing other trade or free agency options.
I wouldn’t mind a couple picks or prospects. They might work out and be great players. You don’t know, but having that chance is better than nothing to me. I can see your point though, especially about the 2nd-level D-man.
Keeping Zach around just to make a playoff run this year doesn’t really matter to me because I don’t see them going deep in the playoffs anyway. The only good reason to do that would be the financial benefit of the playoff games, imo.
Stop inventing straw men to knock down to justify your argument. If you can’t argue my points effectively and without the sardonic insults, perhaps you should try having a better foundation on which to base your thoughts.
….
For the record, I’d prefer to have Parise re-signed for the long haul. But if that isn’t possible, I’d take two months of Parise’s services over a late first round pick and a second-pairing defenseman. The former isn’t anything close to a sure thing. The latter is easily found on the open market for similar salaries, especially as a UFA, plus this team is chock full of second-pairing defensemen to begin with.
Something to keep in mind
If Vanderbeek’s financial issues are as bad as some would have us believe, and Chambers doesn’t want anything to do with the club at this point…. we could be looking at a “cap floor” team next year. It certainly is helpful in some respects that the Devils have so many contracts coming off the books after the season…. but according to CapGeek, the team still has more than $37 million committed to only 11 players for next year.
If this is a team that will be around the League-mandated minimum, is there even room for a substantial cap hit such that Zach Parise will command? Would the team sign Zach to that long-term deal and simply fill out the roster with minimum-contract players? Or would ownership let him walk (or tell Lou to trade his rights for future draft picks and/or prospects) and simply try to get a slightly superior caliber of filler player for the rest of the roster with the goal being to spend as little on payroll as possible?
Salaries are going to be rolled back and the cap will go down, so that’s one thing to look forward to – I don’t think the Devils will be close to the floor when that’s all done with.
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Sorry, but
if a club offers you something that you simply can not refuse(or afford to refuse) in exchange for him that addresses a need this team has lacked for a while now, it would be stupid to decline. There are 29 teams that want him. It only takes one to offer something of value or more whether Lou has leverage or not.
And as pointed out, would you rather lose him for nothing come July, just like the rest? Because unless they make a deep run(which is unlikely) he’s not going to re-sign imo. Other past/present issues exist for him to sign besides “financial problems”. You say trading him will not benefit the team’s financial situation at all, well losing him in free agency would destroy them.
if a club offers you something that you simply can not refuse(or afford to refuse) in exchange for him that addresses a need this team has lacked for a while now, it would be stupid to decline. There are 29 teams that want him. It only takes one to offer something of value or more whether Lou has leverage or not.
And what need would compel the Devils to trade away a top winger in the NHL? Whatever they will get will not replace what Parise brings to the table.
You say trading him will not benefit the team’s financial situation at all, well losing him in free agency would destroy them.
How would losing Parise in free agency destroy the team? I highly doubt Parise walking away to another team will be any different than what happened when Bobby Holik, Scott Niedermayer, Scott Gomez, and Brian Gionta did.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
by John Fischer on Jan 29, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Love the article
Very nicely done John, although imo as fans, we should not necessarily be too worried about the financial problems. As you have said a few times the Devils are in a lease with the stadium for 20-something years and will not be moved any time soon. That to me as a fan is the most important thing, that the Devils are in NJ for the extended future. With that being said the financial and ownership problems should and probably will be worked out sooner or later even if the NHL has to get involved. Now how that correlates to ZP is another story i completely agree that ZP on the team gives us the best chance to make the playoffs and generate more revenue. My problem is that, barring a miracle, we will not win the cup this year and this is speculative and my opinion but ZP walks no matter what. As a few people eluded to that week before the trade deadline i think he is shopped to the top 4 or 5 contending teams trying to make an impact. I think the Kovy situation is different because he was then and is now a different player and person then Zach. Zach seems to have more intangibles and leadership qualities that GM’s love, i think that adds a little more trade value to Zach than Kovy had. This team has to many holes as it is to make a serious run If we can get almost fair value from some dumb GM (seems like there are a couple) i say pull the trigger. Sorry i kind of went all over the place here long last night/day today had a hard time pulling my thoughts together but I think letting ZP walk for nothing hurts this team and franchise far more then trading him for some picks and d-man or goalie and missing the playoffs this year.
I don’t really think Parise’s leadership qualities make much of a difference in any trade offer since it’s only a short-term rental. Tough for a new guy to come in an really make an impact as a leader in just a few weeks. A team looking to sign him in the off-season may offer him a little more for that though.
Wait to the Draft...
Very good article!!
I would actually wait to the draft before trading Parise if situation obliged.
First we do need him for playoff run.
By making the playoff the team would get additional revenue which they really need at this point.
Also waiting untill the draft give Lou a substancial ammount of time to sign him. If by then no deal is done both partie must take different road, Therefore fans will not be pissed at the Devils organisation for not trying.
I know don’t what is Zach value on the market but certaintly not 8 millions a year. I love Ilya and he’s my favourite player however his salary don’t make sense to me…If you’re looking to win and be a competitive team every year his very high salary might be an obstacle to aquire other key players.
But that is a choice you make as an invidual or athlete.
Contracts just be should like NBA MAX 4 years
Ilya as a cap hit of 6.7 mil. Thats not that much more then Parise, Elias or Broduer.
Its going to hold them back from signing guys.
The Devils have 4 players making 5 million or more. Parise, Broduer, Elias and Kovy.
By comparison.
Vancourver has 4
Boston has 4
Chicago has 6
Pittsburgh has 4
Next year that number reduces to 3 (assuming Parise resigns). They will have space to get to fill in the missing pieces.
This season however, the total for the players that make over $5 between the Devils and the teams you listed are:
Canucks: $22.53m
Devils: $23.867m
Penguins: $27.4m
Hawks: $29.213m (did not count Huet).
Boston only has 3, Krejci gets a pay increase over $5m next season.
In Lou We Trust: SBN Blog of the New Jersey Devils
by Matthew Ventolo on Jan 29, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
So if Parise walks we get nothing?
Nice
The playoffs argument is a bad one because do you really expect this team to make it past the second round let alone the first round? I only think we make it past the first round if we end up facing washington or florida and even then it’s still a toss up.
Also, if we miss the playoffs with Parise still on the roster then what? He’ll definitely walk anyway.
Well, with the playoffs, from what I’ve heard on TV teams get around $1 million per home playoff game. If it’s a situation where with Parise you make the playoffs and without you don’t, short term, the Devils are better off keeping him. If you get good, cheap assets in return, though, who knows, maybe the saved money is better.
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by red army line on Jan 29, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
If the Devils trade Parise anytime between now and the trade deadline, then the Devils are going to be more likely to miss the playoffs. That’s additional revenue, concessions, exposure lost. Not to mention the fact that it would be the first time since the mid-1980s. That speaks to how the team has done over the last two decades; it’s a far bigger failure than losing in the first or second round.
As an aside, all playoff match-ups are toss-ups. To discount making the playoffs because the chances of getting to the ECF demonstrates unrealistic expectations in my opinion. Then again, I believe the goal for a team that missed the postseason last season should be to just get to the playoffs.
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by John Fischer on Jan 29, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
all playoff match-ups are toss-ups
Not necessarily match ups against the top 3 teams in the league. I would give the Devils no chance of beating boston.
If Lou wants to make the playoffs that badly then yes keep Parise. But if I were him i’d give Parise an ultimatum on what his intentions for the future are and make him come up with a decision in the next week. If Parise is going to walk then why should we sweat this thing out? Get it over with already and get a half decent return.
Even if we lose to Boston, that’s at least two home game sellouts and playoff TV ratings. Its not really about the intangible feelings of success from a deep run as much as the money.
The problem is the return. What is a half decent return? What is that return actually worth to the team? What is Parise’s value to the team in helping attain additional playoff revenue? Picks and prospects certainly add to a team’s pool of player assets, but having Parise on this team also helps our playoff push and revenue. Sure it would be nice if the returns offered were as good as Weber, but more likely than not, the offers aren’t going to be that good.
There is also the “return” that the Devils get next season by freeing up ~$6 million of Parise’s contract. You don’t get a player directly in return, but free cap space going into free agency can also be seen as an asset.
I don’t think John is trying to foreclose the idea of trading Parise. He is just emphasizing that there are many more considerations other than “this guy isn’t coming back so lets get what we can for him.” It goes so much deeper than that. If it comes down to a trade there are a ton of questions Lou has to deal with. Should Lou gamble on making the playoffs for $X million dollars of playoff revenue? How much is it worth to forgo the added “Parise playoff push value”? Is a first round pick and prospect enough? What benefits do picks and prospects add? The value added by picks and prospects comes in the future. Future benefits are worth less in present values. This is especially important when you have cash flow issues like the Devils. New youth players might help bring in $X/game in the future, but right now there is also a value in the playoff games to help with meeting debt payments.
Totally agree with your points John
The problem right now for both sides of this argument is that at best we are all speculating as to what return is possible and what the standings will look like in a month. But to me, given the financial tremors that keep popping up, it seems like the Devils have a more immediate need for financial gains (i.e., making the playoffs this year) than longer term assets (i.e., picks/prospects). While it would be nice to have something as awesome as a Parise for Weber trade (if Parise negotiations do in fact break down), realistically, rentals don’t get that kind of return. If the Preds are even interested in taking Parise for possibly only a few months it is because they think they are a playoff team. And if they think they’re a playoff team, they probably aren’t going to give up their top D-man with a wicked slap shot.
The inherent issue that a few people arguing for selling off Zach for any return at all are missing is that he adds value to the team even if he leaves after the season. The Devils want to make the playoffs. The playoffs offer direct financial benefits. Zach Parise adds to our ability to make the playoffs. So there is a certain value that Parise adds to this team even if only for the remainder of the season. Saying that we should take any return for at all for a guy that is not coming back is too shortsighted. Yes, we essentially did this with Langenbrunner, but at that point making the playoffs was a fantasy and Langs just wasn’t very good. The distinct difference between this year and last year is that (and I think most would agree) the Devils are a legitimate contender for a playoff spot. To take a pick and some prospects would be a poor decision from the organization’s perspective because of the immediacy imposed by its financial issues.
The main point is that this is a balancing test. Parise adds value to the team making the playoffs, regardless of if we let him walk after the season. It is not a “no return” situation; the Devils get a “return” of Parise’s services for the playoff push. On the other hand, if we trade Parise it becomes a question of the value of the players we get in return for this current season and future seasons. Balancing these two values is the crux of the whole argument. As I said earlier I think the value of future seasons is of quite low importance for the Devils at this point. Any return is going to have to add immediate value or be so incredibly beneficial in the future that it is impossible to say no regardless of playoffs this year.
All of the variables above change as the standings change. If we tank and end up 12th in the East by the deadline, obviously there is less value to keeping Parise. If we’re sitting in 5th by then, there is significantly more value in keeping him. If we stay at 8th, this is going to be a really tough call, but it still comes down to the value the Devils can get in return and based on the Kovy deal and rentals generally, I don’t think there is much benefit to taking some picks/prospects over Parise, who can help with the playoff push.
Worth the $$?
Do you guys think Parise is worthy of such a contract? He’s super important to the team, but I’m afraid he’s going to demand Crosby/Ovie/Malkinesque money. He’s certainly going to want as much as Kovy, right?
$7mill/5 years $35 mil over all no more hes off the books at 32 and let him walk then when his 5’10 body is breaking down already
It won't happen. But
If you were GM and the feeling was Parise was going to leave.
Would you take a healthy Scott Gomez straight up for Parise?
Not with his current contract. He’s more of a cap hit than Kovy! And I think the fanbase’s feelings on him would prevent the team from taking him back no matter the price.
He would be in the final two years of contract. With a hit to the Devils of 5mil.
That isn’t really to outrageous for a top 6 center.
He has taken a lot of heat as being over rated. But personally I don’t think its all been warranted. He just was really over paid.
1000x No. In fantasyland I would however take Zetterberg for Parise straight up, but that’s a brutal cap hit.
by rtrstevec on Jan 30, 2012 1:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There isn’t a single GM in the National Hockey League who is taking Scott Gomez’s contract off of Montreal’s hands unless the Canadians take back an equally onerous contract and/or offer an enticement that is too good to be true.
That being said, if Scott Gomez were bought out this summer (whether on July 1st or through any “amnesty” clause included in a new CBA), I would look into bringing him back on a tryout basis or even on a one-year/low-dollar sort of deal. While I imagine most Devils fans would desire a Gomez reunion slightly less than an intrusive IRS audit, I think a return to a disciplined system, a smaller role, and a situation where he (particularly his contract) isn’t an extreme focus for a team’s fan base might do him some good. I haven’t watched enough of Gomez’s play in Montreal to see how much his game has deteriorated, but if he retains some of his on-ice/playmaking vision and can still do a reasonable job carrying the puck and QBing a Power Play, he might benefit simply from a change of scenery. And if he does still have that playmaking touch, one can never have too many playmaking centers — especially if there are two premiere scorers (Parise and Kovalchuk) to try and create opportunities for.
However, it has to be at the right price. And that price isn’t much higher than the League minimum, and perhaps only after a tryout at that.
He would get more the a tryout from some team. So you would probably have to sign him to a deal.
He played real well in the playoffs two seasons ago. But then again it was two seasons ago.
I think he would actually get a lot of interest for a playoff team looking to add depth. A #2 center.
He has had to endure having a really bad contract in probably the biggest US hockey market and the biggest Canadian hockey market. Not living up to it.
No. Gomez is a lot better than his lack of goals would suggest; but that would be a poisonous trade.
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by John Fischer on Jan 30, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
It seems he’s over the hill and most fans probably understand that he’s poisonous.
So, no. I’d rather see John Maclean behind the bench as ASS’T coach then see Gomez on the 4th line.
by Alan Wright on Jan 31, 2012 9:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Should have gave zach a contract extension when kovy got his.
Maybe zach has a grudge towards lou because kovy the outsider at the time had a circus signing day. Who knows, I doubt lou signed zach for one year to see if zach still had it. I think lou wants zach to take a hometown discount. But daddy jp made that clear about payday. His dad needs to keep it shut, hes not an agent. Dont care who he is !!!!!!!!!!!!

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