Goaltending tandem for next season?

by andy6637 on Jan 8, 2012 3:09 PM EST

With Marty not getting any younger, I think we have to seriously start considering our goaltending options for the future, maybe even starting next season. In my personal opinion (if he doesn't want to retire) we should give Marty a one year contract and have him as an expensive backup and bring up one of our prospects, in my opinion that would be Keith Kinkaid to be our starter. They could maybe even split the stars 50/50. What do you guys think?

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If Martin Brodeur returns, and Hedberg retires/signs elsewhere, we wouldn’t bring up Kinkaid as our starter. Marty will still be our starter, with Kinkaid as the backup.

by Marty's Better #30 on Jan 8, 2012 3:15 PM EST reply actions

Thats why he should maybe get a game or two in this season.

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Jan 8, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions

The first issue is whether or not Marty wants to play. I imagine he’ll make his decision reasonably quickly — perhaps even before the end of the regular season — but he won’t turn the issue into a media circus. Rather, it would come out similar to Wayne Gretzky’s retirement (which was first announced four days before the end of the regular season in a year he wasn’t going to the playoffs) and that would be that.

If Marty plays, he’s one-half of a goaltending tandem. Whether you promote one of the kids to share time with him or sign a veteran off the FA Market at bargain-basement prices is Lou Lamoriello’s call. I also imagine Marty won’t be too terribly concerned with whether he’s the starter, the backup, or part of a 1A/1B rotation. He doesn’t strike me as having that sort of ego, but would gladly take a considerably lesser role if it’s better for the organization.

by acasser on Jan 8, 2012 5:22 PM EST reply actions

What happens if neither Broduer or Hedberg come back?

by NJDOhio on Jan 8, 2012 5:59 PM EST reply actions

The rivers run red with the blood of newborn babes and locusts devour the land for as far as the eye can see

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by Alamoth on Jan 9, 2012 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

well theres always these guys

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Jan 8, 2012 6:06 PM EST reply actions

#bringbackclemmensen

by nightfront on Jan 8, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions

i was leaning towards Montoya. Clemmenson worked when he was here but who knows how that reunion could go? Plus it couldn’t hurt to have a guy younger than 30 in the net.

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Jan 9, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions

I’d be shocked if the Islanders let Montoya go. They’re not going to keep Nabokov. Montoya/DiPietro is their pairing going forwards. Or Montoya and whoever they call up from the AHL while DiPietro is busy getting injured while on IR.

I wouldn’t be against bringing back Clemmensen. He is a decent NHL backup and we’d only need him for one or two seasons. A few guys on that list are due for a big pay day including Josh Harding, Al Montoya and Brian Elliott, so don’t expect Lou to try to get any of those guys unless Parise doesn’t come back.

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by Alamoth on Jan 9, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions

I think even Garth Snow has realized by now that DiPietro can’t be relied upon.

My money is on the Islanders moving Nabakov by the trade deadline, DiPietro retiring or otherwise disappearing and their pairing next year as Montoya and Poulin.

by elesias on Jan 9, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions

The fact that this blog has not played up the “Marty Moose” name is slightly disappointing. Also if Devils make the playoffs, it will likely be the 1st goaltending tandem since 1995.

I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.

by Cherno77 on Jan 8, 2012 9:31 PM EST reply actions

You meant 1994

Brodeur split the 1993-94 season with Chris Tererri but was the starter for the shortened 1994-95 season playing 40 out of 46 games. Also, I would consider the 2008-09 season to have been a tandem with Brodeur/Clemmensen since Marty only played 31 games.

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by Alamoth on Jan 9, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions

For some reason, I thought Terreri split some games in the 1st Round Boston and 2nd Round Pittsburgh series in 1995, but yes, 1994.

As for Clemmer, I meant playoffs. I really think that if we get in, DeBoer goes with a tandem in the playoffs.

I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.

by Cherno77 on Jan 9, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions

No way

And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?

by KovyisLove on Jan 9, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions

Kovy,

You think DeBoer’s going to ride one horse if the post-season happens? Then to you sire, I say, no way.

I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.

by Cherno77 on Jan 9, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah I do think so, whoever wins first.

And Kovalchuk speeds away, great moves, busting through, DID YOU SEE THAT?

by KovyisLove on Jan 9, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions

Take a look at the teams who have gone with goaltending “rotations” of one sort or another in recent playoff seasons. Take a look at the ones who weren’t obliged to do so due to goaltender injuries.

Now tell me which of those teams were particularly successful.

….

If the Devils make the playoffs, I’m absolutely certain PDB will pick one guy at the start and declare him to be “my guy”. That’s subject to change if he stinks up the joint, but there isn’t going to be a “Marty starts the odd-numbered games, Johan the even-numbered games” sort of situation.

by acasser on Jan 9, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions

Barring some unforseen circumstances or some kind of collapse, I think it will be all Marty in the playoffs.

by JTdevs on Jan 9, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions

Absolutely. This isn’t going to be like Vancouver where if Marty has a rough night you’ll see Hedberg in the next night. If we’re going to win a Stanley Cup it’s going to be Brodeur in net the whole way.

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by Alamoth on Jan 10, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions

Games 1 and 2 in Boston were back to back road playoff shutouts for Marty. I believe they were the franchise’s first road playoff shutouts.

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by Alamoth on Jan 9, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions

I have a feeling that Brodeur’s mind has already been made up regardless of what it is and Lou already has a plan, or atleast an idea as to what he’s going to do

by youngdog86 on Jan 8, 2012 10:06 PM EST reply actions

Marty is ranked 41st save %. You can say what you want about numbers in general – you like it you don’t like it – whatever.

He’s ranked 41st!!!! I mean, there are only 30 teams!!!

I’ll be stunned if he is brought back as a starter next season.

by Bobby V on Jan 9, 2012 3:56 PM EST reply actions

In all fairness a lot of teams have been using their tandems more often then usual. So when there are 30 teams theres probably about 60 or so goalies who have started.

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Jan 9, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions

The Islanders will play 7 or 8 by themselves…

by elesias on Jan 9, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions

So that means what? Other teams have two goalies with higher save percentages then Marty, right? That’s good for us how?

by Bobby V on Jan 9, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions

I dont care about other teams goalies. All I care about are the wins and as long as he and Hedberg are winning i could care less what their personal stats are.

"Its the letter D"

by Rory B. Bellows on Jan 9, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions

Save percentage is not the only metric by which to judge a goaltender. If that’s the measure you use, you come up with some pretty silly results — for example, that Tuuka Rask is a superior goaltender to Tim Thomas.

Save percentage is also not an entirely even statistic across the League. Some scorers are more liberal with awarding shots than others, which leads to rink biases. Save percentage can also be impacted by other factors beyond the goalie’s control — for example, a team in front of him allowing an inordinate number of breakaways against likely depresses one’s numbers.

Finally, whether or not Marty comes back “as the starter” may not have anything to do with numbers. Will he want to play? Will he be physically capable of playing? Will he accept whatever reduced salary/role he’s offered? Will there be a better option available to the Devils to replace him with? Et cetera.

by acasser on Jan 9, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions

OK, save percentage isn’t the only metric. Show me a better metric that doesn’t have Marty near the bottom of the league. Hint, it aint there because Marty IS at the bottom of the league.

by Bobby V on Jan 9, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions

Marty is definitely not at the bottom of the league, regardless of his save percentage. I would say he is somewhere in the middle. Is he the elite goaltender who will be a brick wall day in and day out like he used to be? No. His last two games against Pittsburgh, on NYE and this past Saturday he was outstanding and put up individual efforts, especially Saturday on the road, that won the game for the Devils. The Boston one in between was a stinker for the whole team.

Also save percentage is definitely not the best way to judge a goalie because as previously stated, it depends so heavily on what goes on in front of the goalie. Without looking at any numbers, I’d say early this season Marty faced as many breakaways as any goalie in the league due to poor play in front of him.

by JTdevs on Jan 9, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions

Marty is definitely not at the bottom of the league, regardless of his save percentage. I would say he is somewhere in the middle.

You are basing this on what?

Also save percentage is definitely not the best way to judge a goalie because as previously stated, it depends so heavily on what goes on in front of the goalie.

Like I said, save % isn’t the only metric and it isn’t the best. Fine. Then what is the best metric? And where does Marty stand with that metric?

by Bobby V on Jan 10, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions

Here is a stat other then save % called GVT. Marty ranks #855 out of 865 players.

by Bobby V on Jan 10, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions

Did you watch either of the games against Pittsburgh? Just curious.

by JTdevs on Jan 10, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions

That’s what you call a small sample size.

by elesias on Jan 10, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

im not claiming that to be a substantial sample size, Im just asking if he saw those two games

by JTdevs on Jan 10, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions

Michael Leighton looked like he was worth twice a replacement-level goalie for half a season.

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I believe in next year.

by red army line on Jan 11, 2012 3:34 AM EST up reply actions

here are NHL goaltender stats for the past 28 days (12/13/11 - 1/09/12)

Surely this is a reasonable sample size.

I couldnt find a sortable list so I did the math by hand. There are 65 goalies listed.

In GAA Marty is 2.50 There are 22 goalies with a lower GAA , there are 41 with a higher GAA , and 1 is even .
In save %, Marty is at 90.8. There are 29 goalies with a higher save %, and 30 with a lower save %
In wins, Marty has 6. There are 5 goalies with >6 wins in this time period, 2 also have 6 wins, and 57 have less than 6 wins.

None of these stats are a perfect measure of a goalies skill, but after a slow start for himself and the whole team, Marty is far from the bottom of the league lately.

by JTdevs on Jan 10, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/goalies-last28.htm

by JTdevs on Jan 10, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions

That is what you call confirmation bias. And still not much of a sample.

by Chris Calabrese on Jan 10, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions

A pretty arbitrarily selected small sample size, at that.

by elesias on Jan 10, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions

it shows hes playing better of late

by JTdevs on Jan 10, 2012 7:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

No one disputes that, but by that logic, Tim Tebow must be a franchise QB.

by elesias on Jan 10, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions

how do you figure?

by JTdevs on Jan 10, 2012 7:45 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

By looking at selective, recent results rather than the whole picture.

by elesias on Jan 10, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions

ok. however, a big difference is your analogy is a little speculative by nature of the phrasing and i never made claims of that sort. Using the Tebow analogy and my usage of favorable statistics, i think you

by JTdevs on Jan 10, 2012 8:05 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

sorry, was saying, i think the more accurate analogy would be “Tebows playing near the top of the league right now”. But, i see what your saying and I dont want to get off topic here.

by JTdevs on Jan 10, 2012 8:09 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

He played three of his best games in his last 5 appearences, the two v. Pens and the Sabres game.

Does that mean he’s turned his season around? I hope so but it’s more likely to be wishful thinking.

by Bobby V on Jan 10, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions

maybe im being wishful in my thinking. I’m not trying to make delusional claims that marty is still a top 5 goalie. I think he’s middle of the pack, which is hard to accept for some people because this still represents a drop off from the marty of old

by JTdevs on Jan 10, 2012 7:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

I think it is fair enough to assert that its hard to accept from those who remember him as the best there ever was.

That said middle pack goalies tend to split their games more if theres an acceptable backup option, which is what we have. Im not on the bench him, dont bring him back bang wagon. Im on the slowly start transitioning away from relying on him.

The issue still as acasser has pointed out. We dont exactly have a good option to run to at this point for the future.

by Chris Calabrese on Jan 10, 2012 8:16 PM EST up reply actions

I think it is fair enough to assert that its hard to accept from those who remember him as the best there ever was.

No doubt. I’ve been a fan forever so I remember his whole career. I pretty much watch every game so I’ve definitely noticed the decline. It was hard at first, but I’ve come to accept it because he’s still out there giving everything he’s got and performing at a more than adequate and reasonable professional level.

The issue still as acasser has pointed out. We dont exactly have a good option to run to at this point for the future

absolutely. I think it was also acasser who said Moose is not that option, and I couldn’t agree more with that statement. Not to take anything away from what Moose has done for us, but he is not this option. Its either Kinkaid or Wedgewood, whichever one is ready first, but like you said, neither is ready yet. I don’t think next year either one will be ready. I think they will both need 1 more season of development at a minimum, so we may be forced to rely on or even hope for Marty Moose for 1 more year. If that’s the case, Marty has to be the lead dog in that tandem, otherwise we are in (more) trouble.

by JTdevs on Jan 10, 2012 8:35 PM EST up reply actions

we may be forced to rely on or even hope for Marty Moose for 1 more year

No. Absolutely, positively not. No (expletive deleted) way. When H-E-Hockey Stick-Hockey Stick freezes over. Next season has to be a veteran/rookie tandem of some sort with an eye towards transitioning to the future.

If one of these prospects we’re all so high on is the “goaltender of the future”, that needs to be determined in training camp and the kid needs to be given a chance to get some game action at the NHL level. If one of these prospects isn’t the answer, we need to find that longterm answer one way or another.

Assuming one of the kids (more likely Kinkaid, but perhaps Wedgewood) gets one of the goaltending slots, the other needs to be filled by a veteran to mentor him and shoulder a chunk of the load. That veteran also needs to be able to simulate being a #1 goaltender so he can carry the load when the kid inevitably struggles at some point and needs a week or two off. If Marty doesn’t completely collapse down the stretch and wants to play another season, I give him right of first refusal for that job.

Nothing personal against Moose, but does anyone really think he can sustain his career-best level of play at an age where athletes are usually well on the downslope of their careers? And is there any reason to believe he could remain healthy enough to shoulder a #1 job if he’s asked to carry a heavier workload than he has in nearly a decade?

by acasser on Jan 10, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions

Next season has to be a veteran/rookie tandem of some sort with an eye towards transitioning to the future… … Assuming one of the kids (more likely Kinkaid, but perhaps Wedgewood) gets one of the goaltending slots, the other needs to be filled by a veteran to mentor him and shoulder a chunk of the load.

I completely agree. That is the best way to ensure that we will have a good goaltender in one of our prospects for our future.

by NJGuy on Jan 12, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions

Our goal tending is threatening to to sink us this season, so bringing both back next year would be a colossal mistake.

by elesias on Jan 11, 2012 7:33 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah, me thinks I was exhibiting serious traits of subconsious fan denial the last couple days and I can’t any more. No more excuses from me.The goaltending in general is an issue way too frequently. If were going to get this level of play, it might as well be out of someone in a “developmental” stage so there is some upside. Im on board with a Marty / Kinkaid split if Marty is up for it, as well as any other reasonable options, but Moose can’t be part of the equation

by JTdevs on Jan 11, 2012 2:23 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

Also, Marty has been in net for 8 of the shorthanded goals scored on the devils. He has given up 8 SHG on 23 SA shorthanded.

by JTdevs on Jan 9, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions

While I don’t feel Marty is truly at the bottom of the league, he sure isnt a defined #1 goalie anymore. I agree with Bobby on that, and I generally say so, which usually earns a lot of sarcasm font comment from kool-aid drinkers during the game threads.

He was the best there ever was. I was this guys biggest fan as a kid, and I wore number 30 throughout my own school and amateur hockey years. Marty’s era as a clear cut number one is at an end, all I am suggesting is he split time.

by Chris Calabrese on Jan 10, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

Don’t get me wrong. Marty has meant everything to this franchise and he’s been very loyal when he could have made bigger bucks elsewhere. There can be no doubt that is why the franchise is sticking with him now.

OK, I can deal with that. But it can’t go on indefinetly.

As an aside, part of the problem is that the franchise player in question is a goalie. If he was a defenseman or forward you could slide him down to the third pairing or third line.

by Bobby V on Jan 10, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions

I also agree that Marty is no longer a clear-cut #1 goaltender except for those stretches of days (weeks) where he channels the Marty of old. We saw that for a while last season when the team was on that awesome run, but those periods of time are happening less and less often and lasting smaller amounts of time. Right now, he seems to be on the verge of finding that magic (and if he does, PDB should ride him while it lasts).

There’s a problem in that there isn’t one of those “#1 goaltenders” to step in and take over the role. Anyone who thinks Johan Hedberg is remotely capable of being that guy is deluding himself — he hasn’t been that type of player for many, many seasons and I’ll keep arguing that he isn’t that guy now no matter how much better his numbers look in comparison to Brodeur.

It’s far easier to transition to a new guy when there is that new guy to go to.

by acasser on Jan 10, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions

Wedgwood?

Not to start next season, but have him down in the minors for half the year and then call him up for the rest of the year to start. I am very excited to see this guy with the big club. I felt he was great at the juniors and i think he is going to be a successful goalie in the NHL. He is probably the best goalie in the OHL right now and one of the best in the CHL. Cant wait to see him up here

by 9zparise on Jan 9, 2012 9:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

I agree completely. I’m super excited for him. I would love to see him as Marty’s backup next year, but I’m not so sure if he would be in the NHL next year, although I’m sure that Marty will be back, barring we win the cup this year.

by NJGuy on Jan 10, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions

I think this is marties last year. He isn’t getting it done these days, and if we want to win we cant have him as our starter. I would like to see vokoun in a devils uniform next year on a one year deal and then have wedgwood take over the following year. Plus Vokoun would come pretty cheap considering he is a solid goalie.

by 9zparise on Jan 10, 2012 10:00 PM EST reply actions

I have high hopes for Kinkaid and Wedgewood, but we can’t count on them without seeing them prove it.

Next season I’d like to see Biron or Clemmensen here, maybe even both of them depending on if Marty retires.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Jan 11, 2012 2:01 PM EST reply actions

Biron maybe. Kinkaid maybe. Wedgewood is a little young yet, but you never know.

Clemmenson? Pass.

by Bobby V on Jan 11, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions

Clemmy could be a solid 40 game guy………..

Maybe bring Floridas whole tandem over.

na-na-na-na HEY! You SUCK!!

by mogilny89 on Jan 11, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions

I really have to say that I believe completely that Wedgewood is our goaltender of the future. He idolized Marty growing up, he plays the same type o Hybrid style Marty plays, and has shown that he can play at high levels. I still think that he is a year away from taking over the job, as he probably should be playing in Albany next season. I would supposed that for a rookie/veteran tandem, we would promote Kinkaid. I like him, but not as much as Wedgewood. Wedgewood and Clermont should split the duties at Albany. I understand that Jeff Frazee has shown that he can be good, but I don’t see a future for him with the organization. If he is still under contact, then keep Clermont at Kalamazoo for the beginning of the season, then eventually move him up to Albany. Regardless of the situation of the other goaltenders, Wedgewood should definitely start next season at Albany.

I’m not that concerned that it should be a Wedgewood/Brodeur tandem for next season, because I know that Marty, regardless of contract situation will still be with the team regardless of his contract situation to coach our future goaltenders.

by NJGuy on Jan 12, 2012 11:13 AM EST reply actions