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2012 NHL Trade Deadline: A Closer Look at Marek Zidlicky, the Newest New Jersey Devil

Marek Zidlicky is now a New Jersey Devil.  He'll only have one more chance to defend Jonathan Towes like this later this month.  (Photo by Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images)

As you may or may not be aware, the New Jersey Devils recently made a trade with the Minnesota Wild. The news broke in the middle of last night's game against Vancouver, a 2-1 loss. It was even put on the big screen during the second intermission at the Rock. The Devils acquired defenseman Marek Zidlicky from the Wild in exchange for defenseman Kurtis Foster, forward Nick Palmieri, forward Stephane Veilleux, Washington's second round pick in 2012, and a conditional third round pick in 2013. The NHL confirmed it and so it was official.

My initial reaction of this trade isn't positive. I didn't really think much of Zidlicky when the rumors began that he was coming to New Jersey. An offensive defenseman with no goals and averaging a bit over 1.2 shots on net per game who's older than Kurtis Foster? No thanks. The sticker shock of five assets being dealt for one definitely fueled my shock. Sure, the five assets may not turn out to be much going forward, but that's still not nothing for just one player. I especially don't like the fact that Marek Zidlicky, a 35-year old defenseman, has a contract where he'll get paid $4 million next season. To put that in perspective, Zidlicky will be the second-highest paid defenseman on the team for 2012-13 at this point. He'll also be 36 and should he not fit in New Jersey, it's going to be a little difficult to move that contract.

Moreover, with Palmieri dealt, the Devils are now thinner at right wing. Cam Janssen may have his spot on the fourth line for quite awhile unless Peter DeBoer plans on rolling seven defensemen (possible and preferable to Janssen, especially in the playoffs) or there's another right winger coming (a call-up or a trade). While Palmieri wasn't a difference maker, we better hope David Clarkson, Dainius Zubrus (he's at center now, but when Travis Zajac returns, I assume he'll move back to the right side), and Steve Bernier doesn't get hurt. Then the Devils will be in real trouble on the right side. There's quite a bit to not like about this trade.

After a bit of thought, some sleep, and reading through Kevin's excellent post about the trade last night, I'm not so unhappy with the deal. The three players traded to Minnesota are depth players. Nick Palmieri played his way out of the lineup and couldn't replace Cam Janssen in his other call-ups this season. Kurtis Foster is a third pairing defenseman who has been prone to errors and it's questionable how much he really helped out on the power play. Stephane Veilleux didn't even play 5 minutes in New Jersey this season. That's three roster spots opened up for guys I don't think Devils fans will really miss. At least, I won't miss them.

Washington's second round pick may turn out to be the star of the return for Minnesota, but that precludes they draft someone who will be somebody someday - which is always a shot in the dark. I would have preferred it was New Jersey's second round pick as it will likely be lower than Washington's, but at least the Devils still have one second round pick. The conditional pick for 2013 only kicks in if the Devils make it to the Eastern Conference Finals and Zidlicky plays in 75% of the first two rounds. If either happens, then I'm not really concerned about the pick because, hey, the Devils went deep in the playoffs. I'll gladly give up a third in 2013 for that result (or better). All told, it's not as ugly of a deal as it first looked in my opinion.

Regardless of how I feel about the trade, Marek Zidlicky is now a New Jersey Devil. I think it's best to take a closer look at what he has done in the last five seasons. From there, we can understand what we can reasonably expect from Zidlicky and how he should be used. He's not getting any younger, but if he's used appropriately, I believe he can be an asset to the team.

Star-divide

Among the many post-game quotes about the trade reported by Tom Gulitti last night, a common statement was in praise of Zidlicky's offensive skill. There is some truth to that up until the last two seasons. Here's a chart with stats pulled from NHL.com outlining his total production, his power play production, and his ice time per game.

2-25-12_zidlicky_basic_stats

From 2007-08 through 2009-10, Zidlicky has been a very productive defenseman. He's averaged at least 1.48 shots per game, 30 assists in each season, and most of all, at least 24 points on the power play. As you can see by the ice time per game, Zidlicky has been utilized quite a bit in both Nashville and Minnesota. Zidlicky has been a constant presence on the point for both teams on the power play.

What has hurt his production in the last two seasons is two-fold. The first issue has been injuries. Based on his profile page here at SBN, Zidlicky suffered quite a bit in 2010-11. He missed games for a groin problem for 2 games, an undisclosed lower body injury for 3 games, an undisclosed injury for a game, a significant shoulder injury for 21 games, and a hamstring problem that took him out of 4 games in March and later in the final 5 games of the season. Zidlicky hasn't been as banged up this season, but he did miss 13 games due to a concussion. No one can produce when they're out injured, so Zidlicky's numbers took a big hit due to that alone.

The second issue is Minnesota's offense. The team as a whole just didn't score a lot of goals, and so it stands to reason that Zidlicky's production (among many other players) would drop as a result. As you can tell from the chart, Zidlicky isn't exactly a goal scorer, he picks up assists from other players banging in rebounds from his shots or getting goals off his passes like a lot of defensemen. Minnesota's goals per game average dropped from 2.48 in 2010-11 to 2.12 in this season; and their power play success rate dropped from 18.2% to 15.8%. With a decrease in goals, the Throw in the fact that Zidlicky has missed a significant amount of time with injury and it shouldn't be a surprise his recent numbers aren't as good looking at they were from 2007 through 2009.

Even with the production falling, the coaches on each of his teams thought enough of Zidlicky's skillset to keep giving him a significant amount of minutes in each season. This is a big reason why we can say Zidlicky is a huge upgrade over Kurtis Foster. Zidlicky can handle a significant workload on the ice. Foster struggles with 12-14 minutes at evens, and relying on him for more would be a huge risk. Zidlicky has been a feature on power plays, whereas Foster has just been the defenseman on the first group. I don't think Zidlicky wouldn't get this much of ice time if he struggled in his own end like Foster or any other third pairing defenseman did at times. The Devils' depth on defense just got deeper if only because Zidlicky has experience playing around 20 minutes over the last five seasons - shortened by injury or otherwise.

That fact begs this important question: should Zidlicky play that much? The answer depends on how he's utilized. While he can be given a ton of PP minutes, the vast majority of his ice time will be at even strength. If he's going to be a 20-minute defender, then he's going to have to play 16-17 minutes of it at evens. The advanced stats at Behind the Net for Zidlicky's last five seasons will tell us how he has been utilized. For posterity's sake, I've included those numbers in the next two starts.

(Note: Behind the Net only outputted 39 games for Zidlicky this season, even though he really played 41. I'm aware of the discrepancy. I don't think 2 games will affect the advanced numbers too much.)

2-25-12_zidlicky_adv_stats_1

Corsi Rel QoC gives us an understanding of the level of competition Zidlicky faced in 5-on-5 situations in each season. On-ice Corsi will tell us if he pushed the play forward (higher values are better) or he was forced to defend more (negative values, lower is worse). In order to more fairly compare each stat across each season, I listed his rank on the team among other defensemen who played at least 20 games in that season.

While Zidlicky has received a lot of minutes, he normally doesn't play the toughest competition. His 2009-10 season was an anomaly in that he faced tough competition, but he's faced weaker competition in the other four seasons. Zidlicky didn't completely drown against the toughs in 2009-10; however, he was pushed back more than pushing ahead and so he had a low on-ice Corsi rate relative to his own team. A rate of -14 by itself is horrid, but in 2010-11, it was around the middle of the blueline on Minnesota which says a lot about how the Wild did in possession in that season.

The good news to take out of this is that against weaker competition, Zidlicky does come out ahead. He was positive in the first two seasons and while he's negative this season, he's the best of a bad, bad bunch on a bad, bad team when it comes to Corsi. Kevin pointed out the latter in his post, which I think is a very good point. It's not great that he's achieved this while facing the weakest competition on the team. Still, he's the man with the one eye in the valley of the blind. He hasn't been a relative black hole of possession. It's also much better than Foster has done in 5-on-5 situations. According to Behind the Net, he has faced the weakest competition on New Jersey (Corsi Rel QoC of -0.682) and he also has the worst on-ice Corsi rate on New Jersey (-7.94).

The main conclusion to take out of this is that Zidlicky can play a lot but he's not going to be successful in getting the play forward against tough competition. He should go up against weaker players where he can succeed. Given that Foster couldn't even do that, Zidlicky would be a big upgrade on the third pairing.

2-25-12_zidlicky_adv_stats_2

Also contributing to his weaker on-ice Corsi rate seasons in 2009-10 and 2010-11 are his zone starts. He was used in his own end more often than not and that's challenge to overcome. In the three seasons where his Corsi rate was positive, he wasn't just facing weaker competition but he was receiving far more favorable zone starts. Zidlicky started in the offensive zone much more and he benefited from it. This makes sense to me considering his offensive nature. Zidlicky's not a defenseman who does well when starting in his own end more than in the other team's end, and that's fine.

When it comes to luck, I don't think Zidlicky has been unlucky at evens. His PDO this season hasn't been too bad, even though it's a dip from last season. He's been fortunate to have pretty good goaltending behind him and his teammates have been decent at getting pucks in the net when he's out there. The on-ice shooting percentage had dropped a quite a bit this season, but it's not nearly as dire as it was in 2008-09. Basically, I wouldn't expect him to get hot or get cold in the remainder of this season.

Kevin rightfully pointed out that his on-ice SF/60 rate of 26.3 has been quite good relative to the Devils defensemen. I didn't highlight that point in my recent bigger picture look at how the Devils defensemen have been playing, but Kevin's right. Moreover, his on-ice SA/60 rate of 26.1 is a bit of an improvement over Foster. What's curious is that his current SF/60 rate is his best since 2008-09. While Zidlicky may not be taking the shots himself, the offense hasn't died when he steps on the ice in 5-on-5 play. It's also comforting that for the first time since 2008-09, Zidlicky's SF/60 rate is higher than his SA/60 rate. We know from 2009-10 that he faced tougher competition; and it's really not so bad that his SA/60 rate was only slightly higher than his SF/60 with that in mind. He also produced quite a lot of points, too. His rates suffered in both departments pretty badly in 2010-11 which makes believe Zidlicky just had a bad season on top of the injuries keeping him out at points during the season. Overall, I don't believe Zidlicky will become a sieve of shots against based on what he's done.

Let's put it all together. Zidlicky has played a lot of minutes and has been a feature on the power play in each of his last five seasons. He was very productive up until 2009-10, when he missed significant amount of time from injuries. Since then, he's been struggling to get points for one reason or another. Based on his last five seasons, Zidlicky can push the play forward or at least be the best regular defenseman on his team in that category but only if he's playing weak-to-average competition. When he facing that level of play, he does pretty well. Zidlicky has had one season where he faced tough competition regularly, and while he didn't get wrecked regularly, I wouldn't recommend that he start facing the toughs here in New Jersey. Lastly, the 2009-10 season was just a bad one for Zidlicky in retrospect.

Based on all of this information, I'm confident in saying that Marek Zidlicky is a clear upgrade over Kurtis Foster (and most other third pairing defensemen) and he provides more depth on defense. I don't believe he'll be a big scorer on the team either this season or next season when he's another year older. I don't think he's worth $4 million. I do think he can help if he is used within his capabilities. I would recommend that Peter DeBoer keeps him on the third pairing and give him significant time on the power play. This way he has a contribute in offensive situations and he can be protected at even strength. With that protection, Zidlicky can prosper and help get the play forward. That alone will make the blueline stronger from top to bottom. Zidlicky may not be a 30-40 point defenseman anymore. Yet, given that the most power play points a defenseman not named Foster has on this team is 4, he won't have to chip in a whole lot to be useful.

While he's played around 20 minutes in his recent seasons with the Wild, he won't need to do that on a blueline filled with guys who can and have played about the same amount of minutes. I think that's even more of a reason to use him on a third pairing. Zidlicky doesn't have to be a top defender on this team, he can be effective in a more limited role where he can match up and succeed against weaker competition. The Devils' defensemen in 2011-12 have been playing by committee and I think that committee got better at least right now. How Zidlicky himself does and if he stays healthy will determine how much better it will be going forward. That alone may be worth Foster, Palmieri, Veilleux, Washington's second round pick in 2012, and a conditional third round pick in 2013. If so, then I and probably many other fans will be happier about the deal, even if it was a lot of quantity for quality. We shall see.

That's my take on Marek Zidlicky. Based on how he has performed in the last five seasons, how do you think the Devils should use him? How do you think he'll contribute to the Devils? What are your expectations for Zidlicky for the rest of this season? What are your expectations for Zidlicky next season? Will Zidlicky at least get a goal for New Jersey before the end of this season (I think he's due)? Please leave your answers and other thoughts about Zidlicky and the trade that brought him to New Jersey in the comments. Thank you for reading.

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Reading the article right now, but Chere and Guliotti just said that Zidlicky just arrived at the rink for practice today.

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 12:47 PM EST reply actions  

Exactly the point of the trade. Essentially, we traded spare parts for a (potentially) upgraded 3rd pairing and PP. Zids is a true PP QB that we didn’t really have before (sorry Kovy, but I personally see you as a complement to a passer like Zids).

We were at the limit for contracts too (down to 48 now I believe), which potentially opens up room for more trades (Lou was a little candid when questioned about making another, which leads me to think something else might be in the works).

by skly27 on Feb 25, 2012 12:57 PM EST reply actions  

I’m going to disagree on the asset cost part. While the players we gave up are spare parts and the contract limit flexibility is nice, the common sentiment has been rental defenseman cost a 2nd rounder. We paid that for a non-rental, which in this case, is a negative. I don’t think winning teams pay $4 million to old, 3rd pairing D-men.

After sleeping on this, I still dislike this trade. Hopefully after watching a few games, I’ll change my mind.

by NJHockey8 on Feb 25, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea but, Zid’s contract was written a couple of years ago, and he only has one season left on it. People are making too much of his current contract value, I think.

Besides, the Devils are set to have an absolute TON of cap space available this summer. Detroit is the only comparable team, last I looked.

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

This trade has been made for this season, for this playoffs. Marek could be injured, he could have a decent end of season, a great end of season, he could be traded, he could perfectly fit… it’s just too soon to talk about next year…

But there’s a damn lot chance that Zidlicky is a big improvement over Foster… If Marek makes the Devils a better team, it’s a win for a playoff push.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

The Royal Half - "Today, Ilya Kovalchuk had 3 goals while yesterday Dustin Penner ate 3 pancakes. Well played, Dean Lombardi."

by Elektrostal_Kid on Feb 25, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

People are making a big deal out of it because it’s $2.2m more than Fosters, is for one additional year, and this is a team who spoke about a budget this year.

Yes plenty of money is coming off the books after this season, but those players all need to be replaced. The RFAs, Fayne and Taormina, if re-signed (and Fayne more than likely will be) will make more than they are making now. Parise, if re-signed, will almost assuredly make more than he is currently making and if he doesn’t re-sign he needs to be replaced with a top 6 winger. No one really knows what the goalie situation will be and if Lou has to tap into free agency or the trade market that could greatly affect the cap.

If he plays great and helps the team win, then so be it… it may elevate him into a valuable trading piece in the off season or be worth keeping. If he doesn’t, then we’re likely stuck with him and his contract for another year. It’s a risk and, some might say, an unnecessary one.

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s a risk and, some might say, an unnecessary one.

It’s a risk to make the Devils a wining team in the playoffs, so generate big revenues. At this level of competition, if you don’t take some risks to make a difference, you’re going nowhere.

Though, I understand that that trade could turn into a nightmare if Zidlicky collapses.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

The Royal Half - "Today, Ilya Kovalchuk had 3 goals while yesterday Dustin Penner ate 3 pancakes. Well played, Dean Lombardi."

by Elektrostal_Kid on Feb 25, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree and I don’t think many would disagree, but in the context of trying to say why some people see the contract and cringe, it’s an understandable reaction. I guess it depends on one’s personal level of risk-aversion.

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I just… veteran talent is always overpaid. It’s cliche, even! That being the case, the criticism about his contract seems to be criticism for the sake of criticism, in my view.

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t mind the contract. It expires in 2013, when a lot of significant players need contract extensions (Clarkson, Zajac, Elias, Henrique, Josefson, possibly Tedenby)

Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
WHAT YOU GONNA DO, WHEN ZIDLICKYMANIA RUNS WILD OVER YOU?

by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 25, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t forget about Palmieri’s contract then, or Veilleux’s. Hell, add Frasier’s and… who else went to Anaheim, again? Overall, I’m fairly certain that it’s a lot less than $2 mil (and that’s before prorating everything for what’s left of the season). Even if it isn’t though, $2 mil is only, what, 3% of the available cap space?

Obviously the players need to be replaced, but there are tons of options available to Lou. $4 mil isn’t going to change anything significant. Fayne will almost assuredly be resigned, and I’d bet that Taormina will be as well. They’re RFA’s though, so it’s not as though they’ll be able to get $4 mil per themselves (Doesn’t Tao’s contract automatically reup for next year, or something? I don’t know, I’m actually asking).

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t forget about Palmieri’s contract then, or Veilleux’s

They were in the AHL and so their salaries do not impact the NHL team’s cap situation.

Hell, add Frasier’s and… who else went to Anaheim, again?

Rod Pelley. Between the two of them they had 11 games with the big club. They’re fringe players who would’ve only gotten NHL time due to injury call ups or the like so neither do they have any impact on the NHL cap.

Even if it isn’t though, $2 mil is only, what, 3% of the available cap space?

This is a silly statement. Every dollar counts in a salary capped League.

Obviously the players need to be replaced, but there are tons of options available to Lou.

This is an entirely different conversation that doesn’t need to be gotten into right now, but suffice it to say, I think you’re over-simplifying the situation. There will be plenty of players available in the off season, but any one worth having on the team will be in demand by numerous other teams, and being in demand drives up the price. And if they’re acquired through trade then assets have to be given up which means that the cupboard is further made bare and/or other roster players need to be replaced.

Anyway, I’m not especially concerned with his contract. I’m not happy about it, but it is what it is and I’m not going to condemn the guy before he’s even had a chance to prove himself. I was merely trying to play devil’s advocate as to why someone might be concerned with it.

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

They were all on the pro roster, though. Someone has to play in that spot.

But whatever. You’re obviously not willing to listen to anything that I have to say right now. What is this, the third post you’ve picked apart sentence by sentence in the last several hours? So… piece.

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

The point is: none of those four players’ salaries has any impact on the NJ Devils salary cap because none of them were playing in NJ. It’s nice to add up their salaries and say, “Look at how much money the Devils are saving”, and they did shed those salaries in real money, but when talking about taking on an extra $2.2m for Zidlicky by replacing Foster their salaries mean absolutely nothing as far as giving Lou any additional room to maneuver because they weren’t counted in NJ’s salary cap.

You’re obviously not willing to listen to anything that I have to say right now.

Yes because lengthy responses that meticulously cover everything you said is a clear sign of an unwillingness to listen.

So… piece.

Now who’s unwilling to listen?

And, if you’re still listening, it’s “peace.”

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Only $2 mil

Tell that to Washington or Philly

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

The Devil’s don’t have the cap problems that the Caps or Flyers do. So, how is this relevant?

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Because you're writing off $2 million

Like it’s nothing. It could be important (if not this year then possibly next year).

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not writing it off. All I’m saying is that it’s not the end of the world.
Even elias, who seems to have a real problem with me, agrees with that: “Anyway, I’m not especially concerned with his contract. I’m not happy about it, but it is what it is and I’m not going to condemn the guy before he’s even had a chance to prove himself. I was merely trying to play devil’s advocate as to why someone might be concerned with it.”

So, yea, he’s arguing for the sake of arguing. Fun!

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Precisely. Writing off $2m just because it’s only $2m is a great way to end up like Philly or Washington and have no cap room.

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

thank you

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

All last year we would have liked to have had 2 million.

by Chris Calabrese on Feb 25, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

or the Devils last year.

Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
WHAT YOU GONNA DO, WHEN ZIDLICKYMANIA RUNS WILD OVER YOU?

by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 25, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah.

I get the notion… money burns a whole in my pocket sometimes too and I find myself rationalizing frivolous purchases, but one doesn’t have to go too far back in the team’s history or look very far around the League to see how it can go wrong quickly.

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not a fan of the trade as of now either but, like John, after getting over the sticker shock of seeing all the assets listed out for one guy and having some time to dig into Zidlicky’s numbers, it’s not as bad as it originally seemed.

Though the going rate for players of his ilk may be a 2nd rounder, I can’t help but believe that Lou wanted to send Foster as Zidlicky would make him expendable, and coupled with Lou perhaps wanting to clear up some contracts for another move, he included a couple of scrubs in the deal to get Minnesota to take Foster off his hands.

I don’t know what Minnesota’s defense looks like but if they were scratching Zidlicky then they probably have no real need for Foster. His inclusion in the deal could have been a requirement for Lou.

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think Zidlicky will be a 20 minutes defenseman here, more a 16 to 18 minutes per game in my opinion.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

The Royal Half - "Today, Ilya Kovalchuk had 3 goals while yesterday Dustin Penner ate 3 pancakes. Well played, Dean Lombardi."

by Elektrostal_Kid on Feb 25, 2012 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

Great objective write up John.

The 4 million next year kind of makes me shake my head, and what we paid for a guy who was basically a mutiny, who publicly stated he wanted to come here. If that doesnt reduce trade leverage, I dont know what does. That should be Foster and a pick tops. We took a loose cannon of their hands.

That said, Ive backed off the ledge some since my initial reaction to this. Its still a questionable deal. I hope, as his advanced stats show, he can be a better even strength guy than Foster, who was horrid there. I suspect he can, so that should be worth it. Further, we moved some AHLers, so maybe someone else can start developing in Albany who wasnt getting enough time because those guys were there, or we get someone else.

by Chris Calabrese on Feb 25, 2012 1:09 PM EST reply actions  

My dad made a comment to me the other day that I think is relevant here. Lou tries to make deals that are good for the players involved, not just deals that improve the team at any cost. He has a lot of trust in the league because of that, and the good will of players too (I think that sort of thing is one aspect that has convinced players like Kovy to come here, actually). He takes a knock from players for his stance at arbitration hearings, but that’s not at all unusual. Actually, he’s been complimented in the past for talking to guys after arb hearings are over, and trying to smooth out ruffled feathers.

Everything with this deal ultimately comes down to Marek Zidlicky. All of this talk is really just a bunch of hot air and speculation on our parts. However, at least Palmieri will get an opportunity to really prove himself as well. He clearly wasn’t going to stick around New Jersey regardless, so I don’t think that it’s a loss. Even if Zid falls on his face, he’ll at least be the same as Foster… if he’s worse, then that’s a different problem, but I’d think that’s as likely as Zid scoring 10 goals this season.

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

DUSTIN BROWN for TRAVIS ZAJAC

Hey Guys not really not crazy about the Zidlicky trade even if I think he will bring much more stability at the blue line.

However I would really like to see the Devils trade Zajac for Dustin Brown. For he is a very good friend of Zach Parise and second the Devils need more natural right winger than Center.

With the suprising Henrique at center we could now let go Zajac. We have also Elias,Josefson,Zubrus and Carter that could play center.
I would love to see Parise,Henrique & Brown on the same line. Then you could have Kovy back at left wing with Elias and Clarkson (or Sykora on the right. The third line could be Zubrus,Poni and Sykora (or Clarkson),

What you guys think?

by kovalchuk007 on Feb 25, 2012 1:31 PM EST reply actions  

Good Centers win Championships

I know we have “centers” but Elias and Zubrus are both better on the wing, Henrique is only a rookie and can’t win a faceoff to save his life and Josefson is still too young. Zajac is far and away the team’s best true centerman and it would be crazy to trade him. Besides Parise and Zajac have fantastic chemistry.

Carter. Please.

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Zajak isn’t movable right now.

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Trade our best faceoff man? Are you crazy?

Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
WHAT YOU GONNA DO, WHEN ZIDLICKYMANIA RUNS WILD OVER YOU?

by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 25, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Our only faceoff man

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d say something similar (along with pointing out that Dustin Brown isn’t an upgrade over a healthy Zajac), but since all fo that is irrelevant since Zajac is on LTIR, why bother?

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Because what the Kings really need is yet another center!

by Zelepukin on Feb 25, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Initially I was against the idea of this trade, but I’m warming up to it.
Zidlicky is a clear upgrade over Foster, and as long as he doesn’t fall flat on his face, he’ll be an asset.
Perhaps he’ll truly be the Puck Moving Defenseman that we’ve been searching for. If he does well, he will surely encompass that role and will make this team even better.

by NJGuy on Feb 25, 2012 1:40 PM EST reply actions  

After getting a bit of sleep, I still think the trade is pretty good, assuming Zidlicky does his job and puts up points on the blue line. If he becomes just as much of a liability as Foster was, this trade isn’t very good. However, Zidlicky isn’t as bad defensively as Foster is or Peter HarrLOLd.

As for that conditional pick involves the Devils being successful- would you be disappointed that the Devils lose a 3rd round pick if they make the conference finals? I wouldn’t. If the Devils don’t make the conference finals, that just means that they’ve still got a 3rd round pick and another magic bean (hello Nick Ebert?).

As for what i’m saying about Larsson being the odd man out if Tallinder returns, I’m saying that because of all the defensemen, he’s the least experienced. Volchenkov, Salvador, Greene, Zidlicky and Tallinder all have lots of NHL experience. Mark Fayne might be the candidate for the odd-man out if DeBoer wants to keep Larsson in, but even then it’s not like Larsson has proven he’s significantly better than Fayne. Besides, benching rookie players in the playoffs doesn’t hurt their development- see Seguin, Tyler.

Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
WHAT YOU GONNA DO, WHEN ZIDLICKYMANIA RUNS WILD OVER YOU?

by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 25, 2012 1:41 PM EST reply actions  

Having D depth

Is a good problem to have

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem with the “he’s the least experienced” line is that he’s also seen as integral to the franchise’s future. There’s “win now”, but is that worth damaging development of talent for the future? I don’t see sitting a healthy Larsson as being an option, to either Lou or Peter, honestly. It’s not a crazy comment to make or anything, but… it’ll take some effort to convince me that there’s merit to the idea of Larsson being benched in favor of a healthy Tallinder and Zidlicky. DeBoer dressing 7 defensemen is much more likely (and a good thing), in my book.

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem with the "he’s the least experienced" line is that he’s also seen as integral to the franchise’s future.

I mentioned the Seguin parallel- did scratching him affect his ability to play hockey? No, Seguin understood that his coach wanted more experienced players in the lineup over him, and did what his coach wanted him to do when he returned. It’s not like Larsson’s a locker room diva like say… Nikita Filatov was in Columbus/Ottawa, I doubt he’ll pout over this all summer.

There’s "win now", but is that worth damaging development of talent for the future?

How is scratching a player for a playoff game damaging Larsson’s development? He’s 19, he’s got plenty of years to get better.

It’s not like benching Larsson means his career’s over.

Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
WHAT YOU GONNA DO, WHEN ZIDLICKYMANIA RUNS WILD OVER YOU?

by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 25, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I gotta agree on the odd man out bit. Initially I thought Salvador, but this makes a little more sense. Scratching Larsson cant kill him completely. Even a little time in the AHL couldnt hurt him really if Tallinder comes back. Hes young, and he would be back eventually. Hes proven hes got what it takes, he just needs a little time to grow as a player. Every other D man the Devils have are playoff experienced veterans except Fayne.

by Chris Calabrese on Feb 25, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Although it may be the "best" decision

Do you really think that Pete (or Lou) will scratch him? He had Larsson from day one logging the most minutes. I just don’t see Larsson out of the lineup. As ohms law said above, I think it’s more likely he dresses 7 defensemen.

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Scratch is the dumber of the two options, definitely. He did trust him with a ton of minutes, early, but I think he kind of hit a wall later on. Further, were talking playoffs here, not the regular season. I’m just saying, its not the end of the world or completely insane to think it would happen.

I think the 7 d man thing might work, but it depends on our forwards. If Zajac is back, you have

ZP Henrique Kovy
Elias Zajac Clarkson
Poni Zubs Bernier
Carter JJ Sykora

Im not saying thats what the lines are, or even what I would make em. Im just saying those are the forwards we have to work with, which actually isnt a bad forward lineup. This of course depends on the health of everyone.

Really one of those guys gets scratched to run a seventh D? Running a 7th D would make more sense if we had Foster still because he was a defensive idiot, and keeping him as a PP specialist and or 4th line winger wouldnt be horrible. Everything suggests Zidlicky should not be as bad in his own end.

Running a 7th D when you have serviceable forwards sounds a little counter productive. I get we can and do double shift our big boys, but again, why run a spare D man who is gonna get reduced minutes as a result.

by Chris Calabrese on Feb 25, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

But like I said above, having depth is never a bad thing.

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely not. I suspect with the acquisitions the team has made this year, theyre much better than when the puck dropped in October. I suppose this is why they have people they pay to make the tough decisions like this.

by Chris Calabrese on Feb 25, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

They are definitely better

and that’s why were home watching them on TV

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

look at it this way

How many playoff minutes would Larsson get if the Devils didn’t make the playoffs like almost half the teams in the league? Playing in the playoffs can be a huge boon to his development, but not playing will have minimal negative impact.

Go Devils
Go Jets

by FrankG929 on Feb 25, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

"@Ledger_NJDevils: Zidlicky said the Devils play “good hockey.” What’s that? “I like it when you spend the most time in the offensive zone.”"

Grin

by ohms law on Feb 25, 2012 1:56 PM EST reply actions  

You say that you don’t think Foster helped the power play, but I’d be shocked if he didn’t. Shots/60 went WAY up with Foster in the lineup. NJ went from the worst PP in the league to a middle of the pack PP with Foster on the ice. The problem is he gave it all back with his terrible even strength play. I wouldn’t be surprised if the PP takes a bit of a step back with Zidlicky trying to make the extra pass instead of shooting.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Feb 25, 2012 2:09 PM EST reply actions  

You say that you don’t think Foster helped the power play, but I’d be shocked if he didn’t.

He did IMO too, the PP has played very poorly since he wasn’t there

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

The Royal Half - "Today, Ilya Kovalchuk had 3 goals while yesterday Dustin Penner ate 3 pancakes. Well played, Dean Lombardi."

by Elektrostal_Kid on Feb 25, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree he helped on the PP, and he was a detriment at ES.

The power play may suffer a little without him, its possible, but I doubt it.

I think we can all agree it seems like Zidlicky should be better at 5 on 5.

Maybe half a dozen of one, six of the other??

by Chris Calabrese on Feb 25, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t be surprised if the PP takes a bit of a step back with Zidlicky trying to make the extra pass instead of shooting.

I’m pretty sure that Pete Deboer is the right person to ask Marek to make the right decisions at the right time. He will shoot the puck.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

The Royal Half - "Today, Ilya Kovalchuk had 3 goals while yesterday Dustin Penner ate 3 pancakes. Well played, Dean Lombardi."

by Elektrostal_Kid on Feb 25, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure that Pete Deboer is the right person to ask help Marek to make the right decisions at the right time. He will shoot the puck.

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

The Royal Half - "Today, Ilya Kovalchuk had 3 goals while yesterday Dustin Penner ate 3 pancakes. Well played, Dean Lombardi."

by Elektrostal_Kid on Feb 25, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve been curious about it: is it possible to conclude that he was the main catalyst of the improvement?

That there was improvement after his acquisition is undeniable, but just how much of it can we attribute to him?

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's tough to figure out exactly how much but

Let’s be honest. The PowerPlay was abysmal and could only trend up especially when there is too much talent out there. Some of it could be attributed to Foster’s help, but it’s not like it could have gotten any worse with him out there.

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I have suggested he helped improve it, and have been met with the correlation does not mean causation argument. Most seem to think it just somehow got better, and he wasnt as big a role as people make him out to be.

I suppose its just two differing camps of thought. Who knows.

by Chris Calabrese on Feb 25, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Too many variables to lean either way

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Right. You can make arguments either way.

by Chris Calabrese on Feb 25, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s what I mean. We know he arrived and it got better. Seems logical to think he helped make it so, but that’s pretty circumstantial evidence.

Like LV888 says there are some seriously talented players on that PP so it was unfathomable that they could be as bad as they were before he arrived. It stands to reason that there would have been some regression (or progression, I guess) eventually just based on their sheer talent and eventually getting some good bounces and it may have coincided with his arrival.

Then there are not necessarily measurable possibilities like teams respecting his shot more than Larsson’s or whomever else was back there and playing their PK a little differently and the Devils benefiting or else minor tweaks that we’re largely unaware of that Oates made that helped.

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

One of my co-bloggers was supposed to get me the numbers, but, yeah, I think we can attribute a lot to him. NJ got lucky during that time as well, but the puck got to the net much more often.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Feb 25, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe Adam Oates got tired of the ILTW bloggers calling for his head all the time and laughing at him.

“I’ll show those @#%holes….”

by Chris Calabrese on Feb 25, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I guess he finally realized that

5 guys standing still trying to setup Kovy for a long shot that won’t hit the net for 2 minutes was probably a bad idea.

"I never knew how someone dying could say he was the luckiest man in the world. But now I understand."
~Mickey Mantle's farewell address

by LaserVortex888 on Feb 25, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, why does this “Matt Evans SNC” guy hate me so much? WHY?

Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
WHAT YOU GONNA DO, WHEN ZIDLICKYMANIA RUNS WILD OVER YOU?

by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 25, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough. It makes a certain logical sense, but I don’t have the wherewithal to prove it either way.

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know if the PP improvement was due to Foster or whether other things just broke the Devils’ way. Even with Foster, the PP still struggled to generate shots on net consistently and I think luck just broke the team’s way. Also, the team has noticeably started working down low more and more, which isn’t really a result of Foster but rather a tactical adjustment. I could be wrong, though.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Feb 25, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Even with Foster, the PP still struggled to generate shots on net consistently

It really didn’t. The average 5 on 4 power play gets around 50 shots per 60 minutes, that means that there will be power plays where it generates 0 shots, and some where it generates 3 or 4 or 5 shots. The point is that it generated more shots – I am certainly not willing to attribute all of this improvement to Foster, but I’m going to attribute some of it. Zidlicky’s 5 on 4 numbers are decidedly not good, either.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Feb 25, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Two simple points about this trade:

Does it make the team better right now? Probably. From reading about Zid’s performance in Minnesota, it seems he has just been a problem in the locker room and just didn’t see eye to eye with the coach. He’s in a place he WANTS to be now, and playing with some people that he knows very well. At the very least, he’ll be HAPPY here. He’s got the motivation to prove himself, and he is the only that can stop him from doing so.

The trade was made to win now. If they don’t, and Palmieri turns into a 15-20 goal guy every season, and that 2nd rounder turns into a quality NHL player, it’ll be a terrible move. The real question is if the Devils DO go deep into the playoffs this year (let’s say Conference Finals, but no Cup), and the two outcomes for what they gave up come true … is it still a good trade? I’m not so sure about that, either.

by dasru on Feb 25, 2012 4:37 PM EST reply actions  

If Zidlicky is a difference maker on a deep playoff run that clears up the minority ownership issue and helps convince Zach to stay, then it’s a steal regardless of what Palmieri and the 2 picks do. Fingers crossed.

by NJHockey8 on Feb 25, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha, you know, I just thought about the other implications of a deep playoff run that you just mentioned right after my original post. That’s absolutely true, but it’s far from an absolute certainty.

by dasru on Feb 25, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I can assure you Palmieri will never turn into a 15-20 goal guy.

by Zelepukin on Feb 25, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

On a side note

I heard nash was traded to NYR for dubi steoan hagelin and two picks and they want to announce today or tommorrow. I’m looking for the link again.

by danglingdevils on Feb 25, 2012 5:15 PM EST reply actions  

NY dumped Wolski and his $3.8 million cap hit on Florida, so it looks like they are trying. Nash on the Rags is scary this season.

Also, I just saw that NYI put Rolston on waivers (very off topic).

by NJHockey8 on Feb 25, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Zach wants to win, he wants to play for a club who wants to win. Stop judging Z untill we see him play.

by kovyissexy on Feb 25, 2012 5:49 PM EST reply actions  

I said it repeatedly in last night’s GameThread — I don’t like this trade. That being said, I draw one of two conclusions from this trade:

  • Henrik Tallinder is more injured than anyone cares to admit and his return this season is a significant question mark. Otherwise, I don’t see why there was a need to make a trade for a guy who might just be the 7th-best defenseman on this franchise (certainly no better than 5th, if you bump him ahead of Larsson and Salvador). I understand the need for depth come playoff time — witness Buffalo playing four guys from their AHL roster in the Eastern Conference Finals in 2007 due to a staggering number of injuries — but I’m a little puzzled by this import. None of the seven guys (Taormina being bumped to #8) seem to me to be a logical candidate to skate the odd shift on the 4th line if PDB dresses seven defensemen, so I can’t fathom what the rotation may look like.
  • This is the first half of an A/B move, and we simply have to wait for Lou’s follow-up (move B)…. and that said follow-up most likely involves moving a prominent defenseman off the current roster. This wouldn’t shock me…. although I dislike this sort of situation unless the other trade is consumated nearly immediately following the first one. Otherwise, you’re running the risk of the second deal falling apart and having put your own roster into some disarray because you made a move that wasn’t totally necessary in and of itself.

by acasser on Feb 25, 2012 5:49 PM EST reply actions  

I agree with A/B trade

I think a salvador trade is coming

by kovyissexy on Feb 25, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d more expect it to be Greene.

Go Devils
Go Jets

by FrankG929 on Feb 25, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

The Royal Half - "Today, Ilya Kovalchuk had 3 goals while yesterday Dustin Penner ate 3 pancakes. Well played, Dean Lombardi."

by Elektrostal_Kid on Feb 26, 2012 7:17 AM EST up reply actions  

NJ gives themselves a lot more options with Zidlicky than they had without him. I still think Tallinder will be back, but I don’t think this move is made with the expectation that he won’t be.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Triumph44 on Feb 25, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

This. Tallinder will be back I think as well.

A trade for dman able to play the point without being a liability at evens was a real necessity. It’s Zidlicky, ok he’s not the most rated dman out there, it’s a serious cap-hit but the asking price for this kind of player is completely insane.

And basically, Lou gave up a 2nd rounder for Marek. Palmieri is collapsing and a 3rd rounder in 2013 would mean we went to the ECF. I’d be glad to give up that pick. I don’t even talk about the assets Foster or Veilleux.

Now, perhaps someone else in the defensive corps is going to be traded… We’ll see

"It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win"

The Royal Half - "Today, Ilya Kovalchuk had 3 goals while yesterday Dustin Penner ate 3 pancakes. Well played, Dean Lombardi."

by Elektrostal_Kid on Feb 25, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Greene for Nash. Book it.

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Seriously though, this is the standard Lou play at the deadline: acquire a veteran defenseman for the stretch run.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was another move, but with the Ponikarovsky move and this one neither would I be if there weren’t.

by elesias on Feb 25, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

It is standard Lou to obtain a defenseman at the deadline. However, it’s often a depth guy and the trade price is relatively meager. Just going back to the lockout:

  • In 2010, a 5th-round pick was traded for Martin Skoula.
  • In 2009, Anssi Salmela was traded for Nicklas Havelid.
  • In 2008, Cam Janssen was traded for Bryce Salvador (then a pending UFA).
  • In 2006, Aleksander Suglobov was traded for Ken Klee.

This is a different animal than any of those trades I listed above. They’ve acquired a defenseman who is not about to be a UFA, and they’ve given up more substantial assets.

In short, I wouldn’t compare the Zidlicky trade to previous “Lou moves”, because I personally don’t consider it an apples-to-apples comparison…. more like apples to oranges (or bananas, or kiwi fruit, or what-have-you).

by acasser on Feb 25, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Havelid

He was terrible.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall. - Vince Lombardi

by Devilssection21fan on Feb 25, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

and tallinder is really injured. A blood clot is can be life threatening so even if he comes back this season he may not be himself for a while so smart move

by kovyissexy on Feb 25, 2012 5:53 PM EST reply actions  

Kind of a side note but

I wonder sometimes about how much of trading away a young player like Palmieri is in part taking into account that players request/interest. Palmieri unfortunately somehow got himself in trouble this year. I wonder if Lou goes to guys like that and says, ’look son, it seems like you are just not fitting in here, we are going to look to move you to give you a better chance somewhere else". That even seems to be the case with a guy like Pelley

Anyone else here think Lou takes the pulse of some of his bubble guys to find out where they stand?

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall. - Vince Lombardi

by Devilssection21fan on Feb 25, 2012 6:34 PM EST reply actions  

No doubt.

Palms was a good player here especially last year, and he’s still quite unproven. In the past when players needed to be moved, Lou seemed to cater to their locations and take care of a need in the process. The Devils needed to upgrade in the defensive end and this certainly fit the bill perfectly. I would be surprised if this was the last move.

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

by Tim G on Feb 26, 2012 2:19 AM EST up reply actions  

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